Flag ships

certox

Both the Federation and Klingon flag ships and there variants should be the best ship's in the game after all they ARE THE FLAGSHIPS, they should hit the hardest and take the most damage but they fall far short . THEY BOTH NEED A MAJOR WEPEN AND SHEID/HULL BUFF AND TWICK THE TURN RATE JUST A BIT thuoghs?

hereticknight085

The flagship of a fleet is the leader. But that doesn't make it the most powerful ship in the fleet. Take chess for example. The "flagship" of each army is it's King, but the King is one of the weakest units in the game, second only to the pawns. He's a symbol, not a warrior.

Take modern day navies for example too. Aircraft Carriers are often the flagships of their fleets. But the ship itself is quite weak. It does have it's wings of aircraft, but barring those, it's more of a symbol than a warship.

Same principle applies here. The Odyssey is the flagship of the fed fleet, but it's a support craft, just like the King in chess and the Aircraft carrier. The Bortasqu has a TON of firepower and takes forever to die. So it does it's job well.

certox

I disagree today's aircraft carriers have the most firepower and defensive capability's of any naval vessel and to further your comparison in WWII the flag ship was a Iowa class battleship again the most firepower for it's time same applies here

jellico1

in my opinion the flagships are Weak because star trek fans would buy and use them and not buy any other ships , which would be bad for buisness

If the Galaxy was a competive ship I would use it and ignor the rest of the ships. many would do the same

So to make money those Canon ships are weak and semi useless so Fans are forced to buy alien or other ships with very little canon value for a fan to compete in the game

Thats my take on it

maj0rix

First, most Flagships aren't and weren't Carriers or Battleships. Today, the Flagships of the different US-Fleets are mostly Amphibious Command Ships, other Nations use Cruisers or Frigates. In WWII most Flagships were specially equipped Cruiser. Of course also Battleships were used, but not because of their armor or guns, but because they had enough room.
Admiral + Staff need Rooms, extra communication equipment etc.

To be able to command the fleet you can't be on a ship thats on the main fire line, so even the admirals that used Battleships sometimes changed to another ship if they knew a big battle was about to come, so the battleship could go into heavy fighting.

Now back to this game: If you give the Oddy best shield and best Firepower as well as a
better turn, what you think will happen? Within 2 Weeks 90% of VAs would only fly them.
Pretty boring...

Magic word is balancing.

certox

And leave there escorts? noooo surly you jest your not talkin about cruiser balance are you?

neoakiraii

Every time a buff cruisers kill Escorts thread starts I'm going to take shots.....Happy St. Patrick's Day all I'm starting early.

baudl

actually a flagship is the ship with a flag officer onboard, could actually be a rubber boat...would still be a flag ship. If the admiral decided to cruise around in a frigate, that ship would be his flag ship and the flag ship of the fleet he commanded. That the biggest ship of a fleet is the flagship is just coincidental or because the logistic to command a fleet is easier handled from a carrier. But this has nothing to do with firepower.

also i a nuclear sub equipped with intercontinental nuclear missiles has far more firepower than a whole carrier group.

misterde3

maj0rix wrote: »

First, most Flagships aren't and weren't Carriers or Battleships. Today, the Flagships of the different US-Fleets are mostly Amphibious Command Ships, other Nations use Cruisers or Frigates. In WWII most Flagships were specially equipped Cruiser. Of course also Battleships were used, but not because of their armor or guns, but because they had enough room.
Admiral + Staff need Rooms, extra communication equipment etc.

Specialized cruisers...staff...LOL.
Okay, here's an image of the dedicated Admiral's bridge on the cruiser HMS Belfast, one of the ships that were used to hunt down the German warship Scharnhorst:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:HMS_Belfast_-_Admiral%27s_bridge.jpg

lordmalak1

Heh, admirals don't usually put themselves on the biggest target in the area, unless it's a photo-op for propaganda.

eisaakaz

certox wrote: »

Both the Federation and Klingon flag ships and there variants should be the best ship's in the game after all they ARE THE FLAGSHIPS, they should hit the hardest and take the most damage but they fall far short . THEY BOTH NEED A MAJOR WEPEN AND SHEID/HULL BUFF AND TWICK THE TURN RATE JUST A BIT thuoghs?

STO has two branches PVE and PVP.

In PVE the Oddy (Federation Flagship) and the Bortas (Klingon Flagship) These are the biggest, baddest, meanest, toughest ships in the game. If you put the right captain and right equipment in either of them and they are almost unstoppable.

The issue comes in two places.

1. The players have artificially inflated the needs of DPS and have focused so heavily on it they have ruined the game dynamics for themselves.

2. There is no punishment for death in PVP so most DPS players use death as a regen hull/shield skill. When players make no effort to keep their ships active it really limits the effectiveness of a Flagship.

If this game was even remotely based in reality, you would need 5 to 10 escorts to bring down a battleship like the Bortas.... but then most of you wouldn't play because the Bortas had an unfair advantage.


Eisaak

melisande77

I think the issue on a death penalty is interesting. Even in PVE dying is an annoyance, at least for the first few deaths. The 15s respawn timer is super low, so death is low impact til the timer is 45+. Perhaps raising the initial death timer would give more incentive to stay alive?

khan5000

maj0rix wrote: »

First, most Flagships aren't and weren't Carriers or Battleships. Today, the Flagships of the different US-Fleets are mostly Amphibious Command Ships, other Nations use Cruisers or Frigates. In WWII most Flagships were specially equipped Cruiser. Of course also Battleships were used, but not because of their armor or guns, but because they had enough room.
Admiral + Staff need Rooms, extra communication equipment etc.

To be able to command the fleet you can't be on a ship thats on the main fire line, so even the admirals that used Battleships sometimes changed to another ship if they knew a big battle was about to come, so the battleship could go into heavy fighting.

Now back to this game: If you give the Oddy best shield and best Firepower as well as a
better turn, what you think will happen? Within 2 Weeks 90% of VAs would only fly them.
Pretty boring...

Magic word is balancing.

This is incorrect. I was in the Navy for 11 years. Most ships operate in what's called a battle group. An admiral would be embarked in a battle group. The flag ship would be whatever ship the admiral would transfer his flag to. Most of the time the admiral would be on the carrier.

bpharma

Yup, I'm sort of regretting not naming my ship the U.S.S. Rubber ducky when my toon was admiral of a fleet. Still I think I found a new name for one of my cruisers now =D

addsin15

A "Flagship" is simply whatever ship the Flag Officer (usually an Admiral) is on board.

The reason the Enterprise D was considered a "Flagship" is because Captain Picard, though not an Admiral, was designated "Fleet Sector Commander" (or something like that) of a certain sector along the Cardassian Border, according with Federation plans, in the case of a Cardassian attack.

This is why the Cardassians concocted that elaborate plot to capture Picard so the could interrogate him and learn the Federations plans for dealing with a Cardassian incursion.

kyeto13

khan5000 wrote: »

This is incorrect. I was in the Navy for 11 years. Most ships operate in what's called a battle group. An admiral would be embarked in a battle group. The flag ship would be whatever ship the admiral would transfer his flag to. Most of the time the admiral would be on the carrier.

This. As an Vice Admiral, my Flagship is the U.S.S. Magellan, Vesta Class Multi-Mission Science Vessel. This is what I command, this is where my Flag flies.

As for the Bortas and the Odyssey, these can be powerful vessels in their own right if you can build them right. In general, I have found there are no bad ships, just bad Captains.

sander233

maj0rix wrote: »

First, most Flagships aren't and weren't Carriers or Battleships. Today, the Flagships of the different US-Fleets are mostly Amphibious Command Ships,

Totally incorrect. The US Navy's fleets are divided up into task forces including at least one carrier strike group. Usually flag officers do not deploy aboard any ship except for an aircraft carrier or an amphibious assault ship, when they are in overall command of a composite deployable unit such as a Carrier Strike Group or Amphibious Ready Group.

Fleets themselves do not actually have a permanent flagship as such because the Admirals of each fleet direct their fleets activities from the fleets headquarters rather than a ship at sea. For example, Vice Admiral Scott Swift rarely leaves the Seventh Fleet Headquarters in Yokosuka Japan while his ships are deployed. On the rare occasions he does join his units at sea, he would transfer his flag to the aircraft carrier USS George Washington, displacing the Rear Admiral currently in command of Carrier Strike Group Five.

other Nations use Cruisers or Frigates.

That's only because very few other nations have aircraft carriers. Those that do, however, use them as flagships. For instance the French Navy's official flagship is the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle.

vactuskasun

sander233 wrote: »

Totally incorrect. The US Navy's fleets are divided up into task forces including at least one carrier strike group. Usually flag officers do not deploy aboard any ship except for an aircraft carrier or an amphibious assault ship, when they are in overall command of a composite deployable unit such as a Carrier Strike Group or Amphibious Ready Group.

Fleets themselves do not actually have a permanent flagship as such because the Admirals of each fleet direct their fleets activities from the fleets headquarters rather than a ship at sea. For example, Vice Admiral Scott Swift rarely leaves the Seventh Fleet Headquarters in Yokosuka Japan while his ships are deployed. On the rare occasions he does join his units at sea, he would transfer his flag to the aircraft carrier USS George Washington, displacing the Rear Admiral currently in command of Carrier Strike Group Five.



That's only because very few other nations have aircraft carriers. Those that do, however, use them as flagships. For instance the French Navy's official flagship is the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle.

This. Knowing you're military history and current military stance is big when making a current argument.

I'll keep my RA on the U.S.S. Boom HEAD SHOT. He likes bug ships. However, RA Verona prefers her cruisers. She likes whales like Vegas does.

theanothername

certox wrote: »

Both the Federation and Klingon flag ships and there variants should be the best ship's in the game after all they ARE THE FLAGSHIPS, they should hit the hardest and take the most damage but they fall far short . THEY BOTH NEED A MAJOR WEPEN AND SHEID/HULL BUFF AND TWICK THE TURN RATE JUST A BIT thuoghs?

Yet they are. Storywise. And if a TV show would be rolling out with these ships you'll probably see them slicing trough other ships that are a match for them in STO. Sanity is the price for balance and the wish to see multible different ship types active in the game.

No sane organization would spend a dime on a over one kilometer long ship staffed by 2500 - 4000 crewmembers if a 120 meter long ship with 50 crewmembers could get the same jobs done with equal effort.