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A way to improve crafting
seraphantilles
Member Posts: 97 Arc User
Everyone knows that crafting has been broken since the introduction of the dilithium costs. I still don't know why this was done but it ruined crafting because nobody wants to waste their dilithium on these items.
So what can be done to fix it since the dilithium cost is not going to be taken back away?
IDEA 1
One idea that I got from the old MMORPG, Lineage, is to make the crafting system into a way of upgrading items with the risk of destroying them. So for example you could start off with a Purple Mk XI console and if successful it would become a Mk XII. If it was a blue item you could upgrade it to purple. For weapons you could attempt to add one of the modifiers like [Acc] or [Crtd] to an existing weapon. You could also try to add 'phased' to a Polaron weapon or a Disruptor weapon, etc.
Now if you fail then the item would be destroyed. If you succeed (very small chance) then it would be upgraded.
IDEA 2
Second idea is more minor. Currently you can craft some of the things that reputation projects require, such as Large Hypos, etc. However you can only craft one at a time, which is so stupid. And the materials cost per item is 10 mineral samples, which is worth about 10,000 EC on the exchange. That means it costs more to craft ONE Large Hypo than it does to simply buy 20 on ESD. It should be cheaper to craft things than to buy them using EC, I think.
I propose this. Make crafting produce 20 Large Hypos for 5 Mineral Samples. Not 1 for 10. At this ratio it would be worth the trouble to do it.
SUMMARY
There are a lot of things that crafting could be made to do. But with the dilithium costs involved on the better stuff, does anyone find crafting to really be useful anymore? I certainly don't. You're lucky if the thing you can craft barely sells for the cost of the materials used to make it. That means there is no benefit to having the crafting ability, it's worthless these days. I'm of the view that worthless features don't belong in software -- remove it, or fix it.
So what can be done to fix it since the dilithium cost is not going to be taken back away?
IDEA 1
One idea that I got from the old MMORPG, Lineage, is to make the crafting system into a way of upgrading items with the risk of destroying them. So for example you could start off with a Purple Mk XI console and if successful it would become a Mk XII. If it was a blue item you could upgrade it to purple. For weapons you could attempt to add one of the modifiers like [Acc] or [Crtd] to an existing weapon. You could also try to add 'phased' to a Polaron weapon or a Disruptor weapon, etc.
Now if you fail then the item would be destroyed. If you succeed (very small chance) then it would be upgraded.
IDEA 2
Second idea is more minor. Currently you can craft some of the things that reputation projects require, such as Large Hypos, etc. However you can only craft one at a time, which is so stupid. And the materials cost per item is 10 mineral samples, which is worth about 10,000 EC on the exchange. That means it costs more to craft ONE Large Hypo than it does to simply buy 20 on ESD. It should be cheaper to craft things than to buy them using EC, I think.
I propose this. Make crafting produce 20 Large Hypos for 5 Mineral Samples. Not 1 for 10. At this ratio it would be worth the trouble to do it.
SUMMARY
There are a lot of things that crafting could be made to do. But with the dilithium costs involved on the better stuff, does anyone find crafting to really be useful anymore? I certainly don't. You're lucky if the thing you can craft barely sells for the cost of the materials used to make it. That means there is no benefit to having the crafting ability, it's worthless these days. I'm of the view that worthless features don't belong in software -- remove it, or fix it.
Post edited by seraphantilles on
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Comments
My desired crafting system has been where modifiers are explicitly and purposefully added during the item creation process. So you start with a basic beam array, and if you want [Acc] then you get the resources that add [Acc], or if you want [Dmg] then you get those resources, and so forth. This lets people build what they want, and adds a little quest-like flavor to get the ~batwing or whatever is needed. Unfortunately this requires hard caps on attributes, or else everybody would be running around with [Acc]x3, so its not viable for STO in its current form. But it answers your question, I hope.
I think the solution is, as TC said, not to have crafting involving the creation of items but rather the improvement of them. Think of it as when in the shows or movies you'd hear Scotty or La Forge talking about modulating phasers or improving the efficiency of the warp core. Instead of manufacturing items that can be easily requisitioned from Starfleet your character is now using their unique scientific and engineering knowledge to make things run a little smoother, a little better. Basically the way this system would work is that any items you get from vendors would be the basic white quality with no special bonuses (you'd still find higher rarity items in drops but they would be limited) and then using the crafting system you can add improvements of your choice to that basic item (extra critical, bonus damage, resistance to ___, etc). The higher your skill, the stronger the bonuses and the more you can apply. You could then restrict players to handful of fields like in most MMOs- just like you might pick Alchemy and Leathercrafting in a medieval MMO you might choose Energy Weapons and Engineering Consoles. Thus, trade and commerce between players is encouraged and crafting actually becomes a part of the economy and not what it is now, which is essentially a little side skill to level for the sake of leveling it.
Another thing I would like to see implemented in crafting is a way to improve starships. Upgrading the gear you slot in is one thing but it would be cool to upgrade the base stats as well. Increase the base hull points, add an extra engineering console of forward weapon slot- maybe even increase the number of BO abilites you can use. This would be a way to both make low level ships more viable at higher levels (great if you like the look and feel of a certain ship class but unfortunately it was designed for levels 10-20) and further customize your experience.
1 - the best weapons you can craft are still worse than the ones which drop for free
2 - the unreplicable materials needed for crafting are too expensive
3 - crafting requires you to have inventory FULL of stuff (separate bag would be needed)
IMHO we should forget about crafting till other problems are fixed (balance, PVP, content, exploration)
Um, purple MK XI+ weapons don't drop all that often, even in Ker'rat and elite STFs and the unreplicable material cost is still less than buying it straight from the dilithium store.
Basically, the current crafting system is a kludge that they introduced with the dilithium system. Cryptic has claimed it should be fixed by season 10.
As it stands now, crafting is a waste of the players time and inventory space, and Cryptic's resources. (How much server space would they save if Memory Alpha ceased to exist? Not much, I suppose, but its still a waste.)
I like crafting. I was excited when I made my first Quantum Torpedo Launcher, and even more so on the day I discovered AEGIS. I like gathering resources with an end goal in mind. I like (pretending) to be a Starfleet Science Officer conducting research. But it could and should be so much more valuable of a system than it is now.
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I don't mind to use dilithium for crafting, but then, I want something special for it. Like I am now doing the rep project for the Romulan torpedo. The other day I wanted to have two turrets for my escorts, since I had maxxed out crafting, I looked what I needed to make two turrets. That was just absurd. I did make two blue level captain turrets and used them until I could replace them with game loot.
BTW the difference between blue captain level and green RA level isn't that big. I is just the idea that my VA is flying arround with captain stuff.
Further, you can make purple mkX kits without any dilithium. Don't change it, because it isn't game breaking, but it seems to me as not intended.
Like I said, crafting is fine up to captain level. Now they can easy fix it by lowering the number of uncommons or lowering their price.
However, with the introduction of the reputation system, I think we have a chance for something a little better, which levels with us.
Start the crafting rep at level 10 (most new players will have a basic understanding of the game by this point) and allow people to input a green item to break down into components, a schematic and a modifier (random from the item being broken e.g., it has ACC and DMG, you get one of these at first). You can then take the schematic (or prototype plan), components, an item (again, we'll use phaser beam array
At each tier, you could have a choice between being more efficient at breaking down items (you get more and the chance of getting a better modifier/more modifiers increases) or increase the effects you get upon crafting a new item (you add an ACC into the mix but gain a chance for it to create an item with ACCx2). Upgrading from white to green requires minor components, green to blue is major and blue to purple is critical components.
Breaking down items gives a chance to receive common, uncommon or rare unreplicatables (introduction of third category of these) depending on the quality of item being broken down. These are needed to improve the mark of an item. Lots of commons or fewer uncommons or maybe 10 rares to go up a mark.
The upshot of this is it removes Dilithium from the crafting process entirely :cool:
Instead of omega/romulan marks (or the introduction of a crafting mark) you could use the different data samples to fulfil that part.
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There would also be some universal sets such as the ability to create a Mk XII (Very Rare) Aegis set after choosing any specialisation, and access to an experimental space weapon set for phasers (Feds) or disruptors (Klingons).
Basically gives the Federation and KDF some items that complement them, rather than everyone relying on alien technology!
Game Balance - Ship Size and Wingmates
If they made it that their was a risk of something being destroyed from crafting I would not touch the crafting system because I would not want to risk losing something of value. I know their are other players that don't want to gamble. Getting very rare consoles is already hard or expensive (exchange) to get and if their was a chance of losing them wile trying to get more competitive higher rate how many people would be willing to gamble? Their would be people that would but I would guess most people would not.
Any crafting improvement should not require any gambling at all. It should also not require the expensive costs of needing Dilithium to buy uncommon unreplicateble materials or anything else. Crafting should only require the Particles Traces and the gear you want to upgrade or Schematics and should have a 100% success rate getting whatever you wanted.
Right now their is only a few stuff worth crafting. Examples are crafting the Horta non combat pet into a combat Horta and crafting Very Rare MK X Kits. More stuff needs to follow that crafting way.
You could easily make this work, you would just have to make the second of any attribute cost more than the first.
EG:
1st modifier of any type costs 1 chocolate biscuit
2nd modifier of any type costs 10 chocolate biscuits
3rd modifier of any type costs 25 chocolate biscuits.
That way you could have [acc]x3 for 36 chocolate biscuits, or [dmg][acc][crtH] for 3 chocolate biscuits, or [dmg][acc]x2 for 12 chocolate biscuits. Seems inherently doable to me.
NB: I've made myself hungry. I think I have some chocolate biscuits in the cupboard - brb.
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Lots of good points above.
With the dilithium store offering better prices and no effort to obtain identical gear, there is zero incentive to even bother looking at crafting. Also, the fact that crafting does not support any gear beyond mark-11 blues just makes it even more laughable.
A few others above have mentioned these changes that I support:
1) Yes, allow "salvaging" of existing common, green, blue, and purple equipment for salvage components. These components should be usable in various quantities to form specifc items. This is also a good way of consuming vendor bait and other items that simply flood the STO Exchange.
2) Different items will generate different salvage components and at random qualities. For example, salvaging blue ship shields results in green or blue components, while purple ship energy weapons could generate blue or purple ship weapon salvage. Salvage quality and rarity should be random to limit certain supplies and prevent mass-production of Mk XII purples.
3) Schematics are required to craft gear. Many of these should be readily available from vendors, while some are very rare random drops or rep-purchased that allow unique items to be created. These schematics will list all components required to assemble the final item, including dilithium costs.
4) Crafting results should never be guaranteed -- there should be an element of luck involved. For example, failures result in green gear, while critical success results in purple quality. However, certain schematics will yield better quality results (these will not be common vendor items).
The DOFF mission model already provides an excellent way to implement such a crafting revamp.
Keep the ideas flowing!
Lately I did craft kits for my characters since I couldn't find them on the exchange or rewards. Plus I had plenty of the stuff leftover. So now they have decent kits to use.
Since they want you to buy your gear. I like the idea of using the crafting to modify the gear. Like add/subtract Acc, Crit, etc. Or even change the make up of the weapon. Like phaser to polaron. Use the crafting as a modifier to help suit your ship/needs. The old MMO I played had this feature in a shop they offered. You could change it up to better match your needs. I usually hit the shop soon as I got a new weapon to add some features to it.
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