Talking about what's not canon... well the worst thing is the players who call romulans, rommies and andorians andys and dilithium dil, and boffs and doffs and people in earth space dock... cannons being canon are the least of our worries. Those people murder this game.
and if any fleets in the game that don't use those horrible idiot words, that actually speak normal, and who aren't going to leave me at some low rank are recruiting or exist, let me know please in a private message. Also no forced to play on certain days. I have a life.
Talking about what's not canon... well the worst thing is the players who call romulans, rommies and andorians andys and dilithium dil, and boffs and doffs and people in earth space dock... cannons being canon are the least of our worries. Those people murder this game.
and if any fleets in the game that don't use those horrible idiot words, that actually speak normal, and who aren't going to leave me at some low rank are recruiting or exist, let me know please in a private message. Also no forced to play on certain days. I have a life.
Lol look at this giy lololol look at this guy,
Yr not gonna find a fleet thats NOT gonna usethose abbrviations, especially in text chat.
Yr not gonna find a fleet thats NOT gonna usethose abbrviations, especially in text chat.
What do you think this thread is about anyway?
That's why they are all amateurs. I have found people who don't use those abbreviations at all, and the game is better for it, as is anything on the net. If people can't type that fast, how can I ever trust their gaming skills? They are slow to me then.
Also next time you address me - speak English. I honestly don't understand your first "sentence" at all.
I am shocked people are worried about cannons being "canon" when it looks like Star Fleet was taken over by the Dominion hehe. As someone else in another thread pointed out nothing in this game is canon heh.
Beams should get either an Acc buff or a beam rapid fire boff ability. I see these things miss all the time but since you only get a few shots per cycle it's a greater loss of dps compared to 2 dhc shots missing. Or a beam rapid fire to put it on par with cannons.
Something has to give
What? beams have 270 degree firing arc you get plenty of shots off. And its not like escort park right behind you and blast away (ok I do that sometimes, but that is on the rest of your group not doing anything about it). They have narrow firing windows when they travel around at full speed. It seems like they never stop firing because turrets have 360 degrees of tickling ability.
my adv escorts base turn 17, the smaller heavy cruiser has a base turn of 8. with buffs i can 180 in less than 2 seconds with a turning circle thats the same as my ships length.
And this is why turn rates should be based on ships SIZE. Not artificially inflated/defleated based on "class", with Escorts getting boosted turn rates, and Cruisers getting shafted turn rates (and Science somewhere in the middle). Science Vessel (Nova) is just around 180 meters in length (compared to the Advanced Escorts 400+), and yet, it has a lower turn rate than the Advanced Escort.
Turn Rate: Based on size
Inertia: Based on mass
Overall speed: Based on available engine power
In STO; neither of the above applies. My lowly Fleet Science Vessel Retrofit, should be able to run circles around an Advanced Escort. It does not.
Yeah if anything they have botched the heck out of turn rates in this game.
Watch TNG or Voyager, both the Galaxy/Galaxy-X and the Intrepid move around like nimble little ships, not like the space barges we have in this game now.
Fixing beams is a totally seperate topic from cannons are not canon. There have been varriations of phaser cannon weapons on starfleet ships since the NX class ships. Archer had even recomended improved weapon systems on the NX-02.
Fixing beams has to happen in one of a few ways. I think the easiest way is to increase the fireing arc of the weapon baised on the ship type. Archer's Enterprise had for all practical purposes turrets on the ship, Kirk's Enterprise if you look at the hull had several beam arrays mounted in many directions. from pictures of the original model it looks like a dual beam array mounted forward, right, left, then a single beam array in the rear of the ship. Torp launchers facing forward. Depending on what tec. guide to the ship you look at there are numerous numbers of torpedo launchers, 6 being the one that seems most even handed to me. Later fed ships moved to the phaser beam array strips. The Enterprise D had a massive strip style phaser array on the saucer. Look at how far around the ship it wraps. It is stopped from a 360 weapon by the main shuttle bay. http://davemetlesits.deviantart.com/art/Enterprise-D-texture-test-128623267 The Defiant had an actual 360 fire arc on the phaser beam array on the ship surrounding the bridge on top of the cannons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhLwMjK374c look around the 2 min mark. Different ships need to be just that. open up the beam array to be a weapon that depends on the firing arc specified by where on the ship and type of ship it is placed on. The ability to place double beams in the rear of the ship should also be a change made to the weapons.
Look. The only thing you need to know about cannons... is that some people in this game need an extra helping hand to be "good" at it. Cannons are that helping hand.
They won't get changed, because this game's "pro PVPers" absolutely need a weapon system that's more effective than the rest, or they won't believe they're good at PVP. That belief is what keeps the ******* buying bug ships. I mean, why experiment with an unconventional build when you can just equip the same thing every beanhead beside you did, and pretend it's your skill working all that magic, not a completely broken weapon system that lets you kill anyone else in seconds.
I mean, why experiment with an unconventional build when you can just equip the same thing every beanhead beside you did, and pretend it's your skill working all that magic, not a completely broken weapon system that lets you kill anyone else in seconds.
If 2 players have identical loadouts ("equip the same thing..."), with everything of the same mk level and rarity, with identical BOff powers etc, and one player can consistently beat the other, how is it NOT skill that's getting them the kills?
If 2 players have identical loadouts ("equip the same thing..."), with everything of the same mk level and rarity, with identical BOff powers etc, and one player can consistently beat the other, how is it NOT skill that's getting them the kills?
Because they're using overpowered weapons, and their skill isn't much of a factor when you can just faceroll across your damage buffs and end another player in 3-4 seconds of alpha fire.
Using the best fit that everyone else is using isn't skill, it's conforming. Congratulations on being better at conforming, I guess. Real skill there.
Know what I use? Torps. Know why? Because all the "pro PVPers" I met in this game told me to roll a cannon build. Now I pick their bits out of my bussard collectors, and harvest hate mail for beating up bugships in my ridiculous totally not PVP worthy build.
If 2 players have identical loadouts ("equip the same thing..."), with everything of the same mk level and rarity, with identical BOff powers etc, and one player can consistently beat the other, how is it NOT skill that's getting them the kills?
Because that wouldn't fit into the narrative istvaan is trying to advance.
Because they're using overpowered weapons, and their skill isn't much of a factor when you can just faceroll across your damage buffs and end another player in 3-4 seconds of alpha fire.
Using the best fit that everyone else is using isn't skill, it's conforming. Congratulations on being better at conforming, I guess. Real skill there.
So your argument is that DHCs are so overpowering that there's absolutely zero way to defeat them?
Know what I use? Torps. Know why? Because all the "pro PVPers" I met in this game told me to roll a cannon build. Now I pick their bits out of my bussard collectors, and harvest hate mail for beating up bugships in my ridiculous totally not PVP worthy build.
So which is it? Are DHCs so bonkers that nothing can touch them? Or do you just not like cannon boats because you catch flak for having an unconventional build?
Are DHCs bonkers? They can kill most ships in PVP in around 4 seconds. So yes.
Cannon builds are undeniably harder to beat than all other setups in PVP. Not impossible, but they're the only setup that makes me wary, because of how fast they can kill. No other weapon system *can* kill that quickly, which is what makes them OP.
Take the Prometheus class it is an escort yet in the episode when it is first seen (Message in a Bottle) we see the ship disable a nebula class with a few shots to the warp drive and it used beams not cannons the Akira, Saber and all the other cannon "escorts" used beam weapons yet it didn't make their fire-power any weaker, the main reason escorts have more fire-power than almost every ship is because they can equip dual cannons.
ok ill go for making my ship incredibly over powered wooohooo oh yea.
seriously though you have a point but cannons are not going to be removed / changed to heavy dual beam banks / arrays. not only would there be a mass outcry but the amount of time it would take to go through the game and convert every single cannon weapon into somethnig else would be beter used making the KDF faction complete.
Strictly speaking we have particle emitters of various designs that fling charged particles into a specific direction.
Some Emmit a coherent beam from a singular big emitter (hint: excelsiors, the signe large emitter on the vorcha front or the warbirds emitter...) or a pulsed, bolt like blob of charged particles. (bop wing weapons for example.)
Its common in trek to have dual purpose emitters that do both beam and bolt as needed. The vorcha has displayed the ability to choose its firing mode the same way that warbirds can. Beams'n bolts still hurts and jolts...
Then we have the arrayed emitters, which are basically many small emitters placed into an array so they can hand over charges to the next one until discharged. More fancy than having dozens of bigger emitters all over your ship (the klingon way) and potentialy more devastating since depending on the size of the array and the number of emitters, some truly scary amounts of power accumulate there for the discharge.
bonus points for HUGE coverage in field of fire and minus points for being error prone. Its the "sophisticated" way, the star fleet way.
The defiants pulse phasers fall under the same category of weapons the bop wing weapons do: pulsed emitters.
There are no cannons. nowhere. people might call them that, but there aren't.
Obviously, having a beam discharge from an array into the direction you want it is naturally more complex a task then firing a single emitter - with an emitter you can basically make it a point and shoot weapon - like the bop wing weapons. point and shoot.
Bigger is better btw. A bigger emitter will be able to dish out more damage since the amounts of energy it can emit via charged particles is higher than the smaller ones.
Thats why people do not use hand phasers versus ships. It does no good. the amount of power the hand phaser can dish out is insignificant if we talk about space combat application.
Naturally bigger emitters are shown in star trek multiple times, usually firing bolts the size of several shuttle craft... at times AT shuttle craft... o.O.
So, do not fuss over this.
"Cannons" do not exist and are canon. Canon since the first time humanity used pulsed emissions. Which was like 100 years ago or earlier dunno exactly.
oh btw relating to the pic TRIBBLE: The Reliant and Enterprise were first. (i am not counting TOS since that was all over the place).
yes cannons are cool bit so are beams especially following cef3 with beam overload 3 on same target then unleashing torpedo storm with armitages point defense torpedo console vut are they over powered no because most ships that pack them go poof really fast.
While I don't agree with every point that anyone has made, I will say this:
I am in favor of making ships more canon friendly. While this is not completely possible, It would be nice to work in. Things that were can do:
1) Fed ships give a bonus to all phaser beams and photon torpedoes. Also Tier 5 give bonus to Quantum Trops.
2) Kln Ships give a bonus to all disruptor weapons and photon torpedoes. Tier 5 give extra bonus. (I saw many kln ships use cannons in the shows.)
3 When Romulans become playable, they give a bonus to disruptor beams and plasma torpedoes. Tier 5 ships give a bonus to all Plasma Weapons, especially cannons. (They make the shift to plasma cannons beginning after the Dimonion war and continuing as they research Borg plasma weapons. (This can be seen by the Romulan Weapons in ST: Nemesis.))
4) Create a Heavy Phase Beam to equip to fed ships. It fires a heavier beam but with a smaller angle of fire. (Same could be done for other factions.)
I'd like to see the cannons (except turrets) taken away from ships except the fighters / defiants etc for the Fed side especially as it just does not feel trek. All they need to do is give a bigger bonus to the damage of beams done by an escort or maybe heavy beams, heavy dual beam banks.
The space combat feels more JJ Abrams Star Trek, like it's trying to be turned into Star Wars, which is essentially what I think he did with the films.
I will say though, the one nice thing about using 1 Dual Beam Bank on an escort is for Beam Overload.... you can really pack a punch and wipe out someones shield in one hit.
Didn't Voyager have a Cannon installed in trade for isolinear chips?
Trimen Ranger
Admiral Federation Tactical Corps
>Star Fleet Elite Force< Click if you are ready to boldy go where no one has gone before. Seek not the final frontier if you fear the unknown. -Admiral Trimen Ranger
Comments
and if any fleets in the game that don't use those horrible idiot words, that actually speak normal, and who aren't going to leave me at some low rank are recruiting or exist, let me know please in a private message. Also no forced to play on certain days. I have a life.
Does your high horse want a carrot?
http://topofcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/wow-nerd-south-park-580.jpg
But they weren't really *cannons* phase cannons are beam weapons as well.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Phase_cannon
Weren't they canon even before that?
Granted, TWoK had something kind of an amalgam of cannons and beams...
Lol look at this giy lololol look at this guy,
Yr not gonna find a fleet thats NOT gonna usethose abbrviations, especially in text chat.
What do you think this thread is about anyway?
Interested in Role Playing? Join the 12th Fleet Science division!
The NX-01 had them:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Plasma_cannon
The good old 1701 pre refit had them too:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Proximity_blast
As someone else said the Phasers in ST:II TWoK fired with a pulsed effect.
If we look to hand weapons the Phasers in TOS and Enterprise also could fire cannon like pulses.
That's why they are all amateurs. I have found people who don't use those abbreviations at all, and the game is better for it, as is anything on the net. If people can't type that fast, how can I ever trust their gaming skills? They are slow to me then.
Also next time you address me - speak English. I honestly don't understand your first "sentence" at all.
What? beams have 270 degree firing arc you get plenty of shots off. And its not like escort park right behind you and blast away (ok I do that sometimes, but that is on the rest of your group not doing anything about it). They have narrow firing windows when they travel around at full speed. It seems like they never stop firing because turrets have 360 degrees of tickling ability.
And this is why turn rates should be based on ships SIZE. Not artificially inflated/defleated based on "class", with Escorts getting boosted turn rates, and Cruisers getting shafted turn rates (and Science somewhere in the middle). Science Vessel (Nova) is just around 180 meters in length (compared to the Advanced Escorts 400+), and yet, it has a lower turn rate than the Advanced Escort.
Turn Rate: Based on size
Inertia: Based on mass
Overall speed: Based on available engine power
In STO; neither of the above applies. My lowly Fleet Science Vessel Retrofit, should be able to run circles around an Advanced Escort. It does not.
Watch TNG or Voyager, both the Galaxy/Galaxy-X and the Intrepid move around like nimble little ships, not like the space barges we have in this game now.
Fixing beams has to happen in one of a few ways. I think the easiest way is to increase the fireing arc of the weapon baised on the ship type. Archer's Enterprise had for all practical purposes turrets on the ship, Kirk's Enterprise if you look at the hull had several beam arrays mounted in many directions. from pictures of the original model it looks like a dual beam array mounted forward, right, left, then a single beam array in the rear of the ship. Torp launchers facing forward. Depending on what tec. guide to the ship you look at there are numerous numbers of torpedo launchers, 6 being the one that seems most even handed to me. Later fed ships moved to the phaser beam array strips. The Enterprise D had a massive strip style phaser array on the saucer. Look at how far around the ship it wraps. It is stopped from a 360 weapon by the main shuttle bay. http://davemetlesits.deviantart.com/art/Enterprise-D-texture-test-128623267 The Defiant had an actual 360 fire arc on the phaser beam array on the ship surrounding the bridge on top of the cannons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhLwMjK374c look around the 2 min mark. Different ships need to be just that. open up the beam array to be a weapon that depends on the firing arc specified by where on the ship and type of ship it is placed on. The ability to place double beams in the rear of the ship should also be a change made to the weapons.
They won't get changed, because this game's "pro PVPers" absolutely need a weapon system that's more effective than the rest, or they won't believe they're good at PVP. That belief is what keeps the ******* buying bug ships. I mean, why experiment with an unconventional build when you can just equip the same thing every beanhead beside you did, and pretend it's your skill working all that magic, not a completely broken weapon system that lets you kill anyone else in seconds.
Because they're using overpowered weapons, and their skill isn't much of a factor when you can just faceroll across your damage buffs and end another player in 3-4 seconds of alpha fire.
Using the best fit that everyone else is using isn't skill, it's conforming. Congratulations on being better at conforming, I guess. Real skill there.
Know what I use? Torps. Know why? Because all the "pro PVPers" I met in this game told me to roll a cannon build. Now I pick their bits out of my bussard collectors, and harvest hate mail for beating up bugships in my ridiculous totally not PVP worthy build.
Because that wouldn't fit into the narrative istvaan is trying to advance.
So your argument is that DHCs are so overpowering that there's absolutely zero way to defeat them?
Except...
So which is it? Are DHCs so bonkers that nothing can touch them? Or do you just not like cannon boats because you catch flak for having an unconventional build?
Cannon builds are undeniably harder to beat than all other setups in PVP. Not impossible, but they're the only setup that makes me wary, because of how fast they can kill. No other weapon system *can* kill that quickly, which is what makes them OP.
fell out of my chair laughing at this.
ok ill go for making my ship incredibly over powered wooohooo oh yea.
seriously though you have a point but cannons are not going to be removed / changed to heavy dual beam banks / arrays. not only would there be a mass outcry but the amount of time it would take to go through the game and convert every single cannon weapon into somethnig else would be beter used making the KDF faction complete.
sorry if this offends you but its true.
Strictly speaking we have particle emitters of various designs that fling charged particles into a specific direction.
Some Emmit a coherent beam from a singular big emitter (hint: excelsiors, the signe large emitter on the vorcha front or the warbirds emitter...) or a pulsed, bolt like blob of charged particles. (bop wing weapons for example.)
Its common in trek to have dual purpose emitters that do both beam and bolt as needed. The vorcha has displayed the ability to choose its firing mode the same way that warbirds can. Beams'n bolts still hurts and jolts...
Then we have the arrayed emitters, which are basically many small emitters placed into an array so they can hand over charges to the next one until discharged. More fancy than having dozens of bigger emitters all over your ship (the klingon way) and potentialy more devastating since depending on the size of the array and the number of emitters, some truly scary amounts of power accumulate there for the discharge.
bonus points for HUGE coverage in field of fire and minus points for being error prone. Its the "sophisticated" way, the star fleet way.
The defiants pulse phasers fall under the same category of weapons the bop wing weapons do: pulsed emitters.
There are no cannons. nowhere. people might call them that, but there aren't.
Obviously, having a beam discharge from an array into the direction you want it is naturally more complex a task then firing a single emitter - with an emitter you can basically make it a point and shoot weapon - like the bop wing weapons. point and shoot.
Bigger is better btw. A bigger emitter will be able to dish out more damage since the amounts of energy it can emit via charged particles is higher than the smaller ones.
Thats why people do not use hand phasers versus ships. It does no good. the amount of power the hand phaser can dish out is insignificant if we talk about space combat application.
Naturally bigger emitters are shown in star trek multiple times, usually firing bolts the size of several shuttle craft... at times AT shuttle craft... o.O.
So, do not fuss over this.
"Cannons" do not exist and are canon. Canon since the first time humanity used pulsed emissions. Which was like 100 years ago or earlier dunno exactly.
oh btw relating to the pic TRIBBLE: The Reliant and Enterprise were first. (i am not counting TOS since that was all over the place).
I am in favor of making ships more canon friendly. While this is not completely possible, It would be nice to work in. Things that were can do:
1) Fed ships give a bonus to all phaser beams and photon torpedoes. Also Tier 5 give bonus to Quantum Trops.
2) Kln Ships give a bonus to all disruptor weapons and photon torpedoes. Tier 5 give extra bonus. (I saw many kln ships use cannons in the shows.)
3 When Romulans become playable, they give a bonus to disruptor beams and plasma torpedoes. Tier 5 ships give a bonus to all Plasma Weapons, especially cannons. (They make the shift to plasma cannons beginning after the Dimonion war and continuing as they research Borg plasma weapons. (This can be seen by the Romulan Weapons in ST: Nemesis.))
4) Create a Heavy Phase Beam to equip to fed ships. It fires a heavier beam but with a smaller angle of fire. (Same could be done for other factions.)
The space combat feels more JJ Abrams Star Trek, like it's trying to be turned into Star Wars, which is essentially what I think he did with the films.
I will say though, the one nice thing about using 1 Dual Beam Bank on an escort is for Beam Overload.... you can really pack a punch and wipe out someones shield in one hit.
Admiral Federation Tactical Corps
>Star Fleet Elite Force< Click if you are ready to boldy go where no one has gone before.
Seek not the final frontier if you fear the unknown. -Admiral Trimen Ranger
R.I.P