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Jem'Hadar Attack Ship
warbird001
Member Posts: 246 Arc User
This is an extract from STO wiki...
"With a hull strength almost as good as cruisers but sacrificing science for more engineering options, the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship is the most powerful, maneuverable and durable escort in the game. With 5 tactical consoles and the highest escort class hull strength and maneuverability, the ship is capable of putting out as much firepower as a Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit while still taking more damage than a Fleet Patrol Escort. The ship's turn rate is comparable to that of a Klingon Bird of Prey, allowing the ship to outmaneuver all other comparable escorts. Its flexibility is further expanded upon by the inclusion of two universal Lieutenant bridge officer seats, allowing players to tailor the ship to their play style."
I'm afraid I do not understand why Cryptic would choose to blatantly overpower one Escort above all the others except for profit reasons. I was listening to Geko describing balance on Priority One last night and I honestly believe that nobody cares that PvP is being destroyed by these ships.
The uniqueness of both factions are absolutely destroyed by the sheer overpowerment of this vessel compared to other escorts. The hull strength is laughable along with the ability to self heal which seems to make every other vessel in the game look weak by comparison.
You honestly see more Dominion ships in PvP now then you do Federation or Klingon and that really concerns me because should Cryptic not be promoting balance? Not releasing one ship that will get them profit but will completely break the balance of the game?
How can other Escorts compete with this vessel? Why is this the case. I'm not raging or flaming... I am just asking why this ship has to be so massively overpowered that it outclasses nearly every other ship in the game. Its really quite embarrassing from a company that wants to promote "balance" and did a good job with the Ambassador (I think).
When I see these vessels, I just sigh and ignore them. They are not worth fighting or even acknowledging their presence in the game.
"With a hull strength almost as good as cruisers but sacrificing science for more engineering options, the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship is the most powerful, maneuverable and durable escort in the game. With 5 tactical consoles and the highest escort class hull strength and maneuverability, the ship is capable of putting out as much firepower as a Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit while still taking more damage than a Fleet Patrol Escort. The ship's turn rate is comparable to that of a Klingon Bird of Prey, allowing the ship to outmaneuver all other comparable escorts. Its flexibility is further expanded upon by the inclusion of two universal Lieutenant bridge officer seats, allowing players to tailor the ship to their play style."
I'm afraid I do not understand why Cryptic would choose to blatantly overpower one Escort above all the others except for profit reasons. I was listening to Geko describing balance on Priority One last night and I honestly believe that nobody cares that PvP is being destroyed by these ships.
The uniqueness of both factions are absolutely destroyed by the sheer overpowerment of this vessel compared to other escorts. The hull strength is laughable along with the ability to self heal which seems to make every other vessel in the game look weak by comparison.
You honestly see more Dominion ships in PvP now then you do Federation or Klingon and that really concerns me because should Cryptic not be promoting balance? Not releasing one ship that will get them profit but will completely break the balance of the game?
How can other Escorts compete with this vessel? Why is this the case. I'm not raging or flaming... I am just asking why this ship has to be so massively overpowered that it outclasses nearly every other ship in the game. Its really quite embarrassing from a company that wants to promote "balance" and did a good job with the Ambassador (I think).
When I see these vessels, I just sigh and ignore them. They are not worth fighting or even acknowledging their presence in the game.
Post edited by warbird001 on
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So could someone explain how this is "balanced or fair" to players that choose not to play money because the "Not Pay 2 Win" argument does not really apply here. I know its 500 Million on the Exchange but it still doesn't negate the original layout of the ship in relation to every other escort in the game?
Look at your stats a little closer, play it with the jem set on... In PvE the ship is a good little ship. In PvP, you get your TRIBBLE handed to you just as you would any other ship.
We really need to get off the mentality of "Nerf this, nerf that." How about you buff you playing skills and actually learn the science behind the game and come back in 2 years and see how you do.. Just because of a lack of skill doesn't mean the game needs to be nerfed just so you can stop crying nerf in the corner of quarks bar on DS9...
And the bug ship is trade-able if never opened. It came in the Winter event boxes which were FREE if you did the winter race. So to say they are p2w is only half true. Yes someone did pay for them initially unless you got yours from the winter boxes but that doesn't make them completely P2W.
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Original Handle: the_orig_jean_luc_picard
+1 Agreed.
I don't even own one of these and despite the fact that I constantly die at the hands of one even in my Mobius, the first thought in my head isn't to ask for it (whatever ship it may be) to be nerfed but rather; will the guy flying the bug give me some pointers on how to improve my technique. :rolleyes:
It's bad enough that PVE is too easy, PVP is the only challenge left in nearly every game!
Also, reading a Wiki without realizing that anyone can write that stuff and make it sound even more uber or less uber just by the select choice of words they use to write it with. Just a hint for you.
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Original Handle: the_orig_jean_luc_picard
My sole problem with the JH bug ship is that its STO stats are deliberately skewed to serve as a "must-have" power-gamer's ship. The canon JHAS was never as fast nor hard-hitting as the original Defiant, yet the STO version has no such issues. True JHAS only had a single polaron beam array on its nose, not 4 forward + 3 aft weapon hard points and more available armor than the Defiant's total mass. JHAS were the cannon-fodder ships of the Dominion. Had STO's JHAS stats been represented in the actual DS9 series, the Federation and all its allies would have fallen in days instead of winning the Dominion war.
This is an example of Star Trek IP being exploited for sheer, unapologetic profiteering.
EDIT: If Cryptic were serious about portraying the JHAS as accurately as a fleet VA1 ship allows, then stats should be closer to the following:
1) Base turn rate should not be 20 degrees / sec... it should be closer to 17
2) Console layout should be 4 Engineering, 2 Sci, 4 Tac -- reason: the Antiproton sweep used by JHAS to penetrate the Defiant's cloak required advanced sensor abilities that are beyond the current technical level of the Alpha Quadrant. 2 Sci-consoles would more accurately reflect this.
3) JHAS did not have a lot of stamina given that hoards of them were chewed up by the Defiant's quad phasers. As a result, their hull levels should be closer to that of a fleet escort at 33000, not the 34500 that it has now.
The Jem'Hadar attack ship was the very first lottery-ship distribution by Cryptic. As a result, it is understandable that they were unaware of how much more powerful it would be over other escorts, especially when they broke all previous conventions by giving it a 5th tactical console slot. Yes, the JHAS was a learning experience for Cryptic -- this is why no new lockbox ships have been made with 5 tactical console slots since the JHAS.
The b'rel doesnt quite count as it's always cloaked if i'm doing my job right and is more for surprise attacks against larger ships,but the cannon boat isn't level 50 yet so maybe i have just been getting lucky and things will change when i get there,five more levels :>
I will honest though, I like my bug. I have flown other escorts and they just don't compare. Not from a game standpoint, but from my playstyle standpoint. Other escorts just don't fit what I want to do with them. I would probably be in the defiant if it didn't have that stupid 3rd Ensign tac Boff slot. For me who runs all Energy weapons (4 DHC) it makes that slot useless unless you want to run one dual beam bank. On the other hand, if they would bring back "Target sub-system abilities" to cannons, then it would be worth while again.
If there were to ever change that slot to a universal, I would be back in the defiant class ship.
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Original Handle: the_orig_jean_luc_picard
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
how long are you playing sto? How long are you playing pvp? why don't you post your build?
I think there is a reason if 4 players can't destroy a ship... the JHAS is a good escort, but not so good!
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
One only has to list the JHAS stats to see why it's the best escort in the game, regardless of play-style:
1) 20 degree / sec base turn rate -- the only two other ships that can keep up are BoP's and a Beta MVAM, yet these two have significantly lower hulls
2) Highest available base hull of the fast-turning ships at 34500
3) 5 Tac console slots -- only two other ships (fleet defiant, fleet advanced escorts) get this many, but neither can turn as fast nor have as high a hull rating
When a ship takes top rankings in multiple categories (turn rate, hull, and raw damage potential) while having a very limited distribution, reasonable players really have to start questioning the mentality behind such a design decision, especially in a game where gear does matter.
I don't own a JHAS nor do I really want one...I squash crappy bug pilots just as easily as I squash any other bad pilots. The ship doesn't win the battle, sure it helps but only if you put the time in to get it, set it, and l2p.
Yes the stats are good, but they matter soooooooo little in the scheme of things.
Since when does the Bortaque's 5.5 degree/sec turn rate match up to a T5 BoP's 20 degrees/sec? I don't understand what point you're trying to make with these fictitious performance comparisons.
The bug is allowed to be OP for quite some time.
They going to have one or maybe even two more release of bug in certain packs and such to make them sell like crazy.
Then they will start rolling out 5 tac console similar ships like candy.
They will NOT address the crazy imbalance that is DPS IS STO KING! :P they just dont have the programming manpower.
If you're trying to state that the JHAS is OP, then you're preaching to the choir.
The 5 tac console slots alone is not enough to push any particular ship over the top, but as you've pointed out, when combined with the battle cruiser class hull and shields, the turn rate of a BoP, access to DHC's, and two lieutenant universal stations, then we have a something that clearly isn't like any other.
The JHAS was Cryptic's first dip into the lock box ship arena, and what they created was a Frankenstein's monster on steroids. They probably won't repeat this mistake unless profits dip too low.
the different hull points is not a real advantage, remeber that the jhas has only one sci console to buff shields. It's a trade off: more hull, less shield... an other escort can have less hull but better shields.
moreover the jhas is not the only escort with 5 tact consoles.
I'd like to know how many players complaining about the jhas have a real good pvp buils, with (but not only) accx3 weapons and purple mkXII consoles. To have that ship and that equipment I had to spend about 600-700kk EC and still I am not a good pvp-er because ship and equipment is only a part of what you need to be a good player.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
The turn rate and the hull of the bug can only be described as riddikulus !:D
1.)it is available to kdf so it doesn't matter that is OP compared to any other federation escort.
Both sides can have a jhas if they decide that .(fleet defiant /steamrunner is unfair toward kdf because there is no kdf equivalent) For kdf it is the single escort that can handle a well build and well piloted fleet defiant.
2.)brings money to cryptic=>helps the game to run=>I have a game where I can PVP
(even if from 10 federation jhas I meet 8 kill my raptor on sight.)
PS:
I don't have a jhas but if I would win one I would use in in pvp and not sell it .
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Step 1: Find Bug.
Step 2: Start to fight and get hammered by Bug.
Step 3: Have nearest cruiser heal you.
Step 4: Call over nearest Science Captain to Sub-nuke Bug after it uses Tactical Team (which we know it will).
Step 5: Kill Bug.
Step 6: Go back to whatever it was you were doing.
Main problem: People always try to 1v1 one of the strongest ships in the game. What did you expect to happen? PvP is a TEAM ORIENTED portion. This isn't an STF where you can go and Kirk it up. You Kirk it up in PvP you end up as space dust.
Solution? Use TEAM TACTICS to kill the Bug. You 1v1 a Bug, you are likely to lose, or stalemate (in the case of a cruiser).
Does one really need to drag friends along whenever they want to face a bug?
I'm not sure about anyone else, but the above situation tends to make most feel woefully inadequate.
Instead of nerfing the bug, I'd rather see new lock-box ships enter the fray following the JHAS's base stats of 20-turn rate, 5 tac slots, etc... that, or simply keep re-releasing bugs every time Cryptic needs more funds.
that would be a nice story to tell if it was 1:1 but it was 1:2 or more... so nothing special no need praise! I think when people generally criticize the bug they think of him as 1:1 encounter
many escorts have 0.99 so just a 1% difference...
that's true and it's because I wrote that there is a reason because I win against 4 playes... I am not so good, but 4 players are 4 players and if I win is not because of a powerfull ship but because my opponents can't play at all.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
I cant wait a carrier to spew carriers pets :rolleyes:
For the record, the Chel'Gret is a warship/destroyer, not a cruiser.