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The Value of Fleet Marks
bugshu
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
With the total unasked for nerf of fleet marks, the question must be asked what is the true value of fleet marks and where should they reside in this game play universe.
Let me put on my Al Darth Vadar I want to destroy your fun Gecko and make BranFlakes spin it hat and acutally put forth a fair and balanced discussion of the issue.
If a person does a fleet mark mission then they are spending time in game doing a mission for their fleet instead of doing something for themselves that would be more productive. So lets compare where fleet mark missions should live in time gated response to Infected Space Elite.
In infected space elite, a great team can win it with an optional in 5-6 minutes. Good players take 10. And even most pug teams "usually" win with the optional before the 15 minute timer expires There is team play involved and I think so people actually play to scream noob at the players that destroy a generator before the other 3 are below 10%. The player that wins ISE gets Omega Marks, Dilithium, Neural processors, and a drop to use or sell on the exchange.
The fleet leader that asks a player to help with a fleet mission for the fleet instead of spending time doing ISE is asking their member to give up Omega Marks to advance reputation, Dilithium to buy things, Neural processors for mk xii gear, and a drop to raise funds for all of the above.
The average time for ISE is probably 10 minutes or so, and you are asking players to do something for the fleet instead of a nice mission to help themselves. Therefore its logical to suggest in Al Darth Vader Riveras madhouse time gated universe that fleet mark missions should not only pay equal rewards to ISE with fleet marks inserted instead of Omega Marks but that they also should be winnable in 10 minutes or less.
If ISE pays a drop for winning then so should Fleet Mark missions.
If ISE is fun and requires group play then so should fleet mark missions. Idlers in ISE can destroy the mission. Idlers in Fleet Mark missions such as Azure rescue get the same rewards the 4 active players get.
Additionally, when you play ISE you get over and > 60 omega marks. When you play Azura Nebula Rescue its rare to get greater than or over 20 fleet marks and its time gated to require 15 minutes.
Therefore in comparison to other time gated options fleet mark missions should:
1. Take under 10 minutes
2. Also pay dilithium
3. Reward random drops that can be used or sold
4. Be fun
5. Require team play to win
Now in Al Darth Vadar Riveras madhouse universe he once decided that the problem here was that if ISE gave you so much that it needed to be nerfed also and he took drops and other things out of the STFS. Like with fleet marks the outcry was universally loathed so they put some of the lost loot back in stfs and players were appeased for awhile.
So Cryptic the answer is not to nerf stfs once again to bring them down to the level of the horrible reward packages offered in fleet mark missions but rather to bring fleet mark missions up to the lifeline level of stfs.
Additionally, it should be noted that more than a few players do not pvp or even play stfs because they are too hard. I know its laughable for most of the board readers here who are hard core fans but the good fleet leader is on the lookout for his casual players who want to retain interest in the game and have fun even though they have not spent huge amounts of time, money, and investment in their game experience. On ISE you can play it on a normal level and turn it into ISN if you do not have a great build. Ive played more games than I want to on N settings because thats where some of our members feel comfortable playing. Other members just skip stfs altogether and head for Deferi for their daily dilithium grinding.
Cryptic needs to do a better job explaining skill trees and sets and giving respec tokens to playes so they can enjoy their toons but thats another story for a different post.
So, fleet mark missions should be easy, fun, enjoyable, not take a lot of time, give dilithium, have expanded fleet mark rewards. and be worthwhile for players to play as an option for ISE.
Its upsetting for a fleet leader to ask members to play fleet mark missions when you know your players time is valuable and limited and they can do more for their toons by playing an STF, doing a deferi mission daily, or even some normal missions that might pay a a jem hadar set piece like you find in the features series at deep space 9.
Because Cryptic and Al Darth Vadar Rivera disprespect and assign no value to the players who spend time in game does not mean that fleet leaders should do the same. They should fight for their players and demand that time, visitation, and investment be respected, appreciated, and rewarded.
I believe that fleet mark missions should take no more than 10 minutes and that they should award over 50 fleet marks for winning. Players should get dilithium as an added bonus for doing them. And there should be drops rewarded with a major big drop added as a prize for winning just like in stfs. I believe that the missions should be fun and interactive and that winning them should usually need participation from all players. I believe that there should be optional objectives that give added bonuses and a bit of a challenge worth striving for in the mission.
I believe that it would be much better for fleet leaders to ask their members to do fun happy missions that they know their players might enjoy rather than dull boring members they are absolutely certain their players dislike.
Then maybe starbases will have enough fleet marks to progress and there will be less fussing and fighting between leaders hoping to progress and members who would rather advance their own reputation progression and equipment needs. All fleets are dying for good members that contribute. Even the big fleets often pull out whips and chains and threats to those that play rather than donate. A fleet I love, demoted me 4 ranks and didnt tell me why though I guess its because I had ONLY given 100K fleet marks. Another just blew up because they threatened to kick players that didnt meet donation guidelines.
I think the happier fleets are those that just dont give a flying flip about advancing at all and let the members do whatever they darn feel like doing. It would be a happier game if the Devs took the same approach.
Rather than beat people on the heads with arrogant sticks and gate their time and force them into established patterns and expectations of gameplay with nerfs and destruction, how about throwing some incentives, rewards, and fun at missions where you want to attract more players.
The game didnt have to nerf the foundry or even the clickies. They could have thrown more incentives at the theme park rides where they wanted to attract more passengers.
Players are not bored in this game because there is not enough to do. They are bored because they have to do the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again to get what they want.
Add rewards to more missions rather than taking them away. Restore the efficient impulse engine to its former glory and see if people start doing the mission again that rewards it. Upgrade the Harg'Peng torpedo and see if Doomsday becomes popular again. Fix the trophy missions like Crystalline Entity, Deep Space 9, Starbase 24 ground, and Gekli.
Put in rewards in the normal episodes that scale to level so a person can redo the Kuvagh Magh to earn a usable reward at level 50.
Theres so much thats so easy to do to reward players and make this a fun game. Al Darth Vader Rivera seems only interested in pulling light sabers and swinging the anti-fun bat and destroying everyones fun that he misses the big picture. And Bran Flkes comes along to spin it with Dan Stahl running around meesa too I looked at the data and hes right.
People will think missions are fun if they get rewarded for doing them. The more rewards you nerf and take away, the more you gate people into grinding the same things. This gets them bored and this drives them away. And then fleet leaders have to beg the few souls left to do more with less.
Its just bad.
Give fleet mark missions more rewards and not less and expand the reward structure for doing them.
Sound like what people did with the foundry.. You bet...
I dont really care if its foundry or cryptic designed but fleet marks should pay more, be easier and more fun to get, and take less time and effort. Its a constant struggle to get people to even play this game much less do things that reward the fleet instead of themselves.
Cryptic should look at the big picture rather than data mining so they can bash more fun and then gleefully trot out branflakes to talk about how wonderful the game would be if it was less fun.
One mans opinion,
Bug
Let me put on my Al Darth Vadar I want to destroy your fun Gecko and make BranFlakes spin it hat and acutally put forth a fair and balanced discussion of the issue.
If a person does a fleet mark mission then they are spending time in game doing a mission for their fleet instead of doing something for themselves that would be more productive. So lets compare where fleet mark missions should live in time gated response to Infected Space Elite.
In infected space elite, a great team can win it with an optional in 5-6 minutes. Good players take 10. And even most pug teams "usually" win with the optional before the 15 minute timer expires There is team play involved and I think so people actually play to scream noob at the players that destroy a generator before the other 3 are below 10%. The player that wins ISE gets Omega Marks, Dilithium, Neural processors, and a drop to use or sell on the exchange.
The fleet leader that asks a player to help with a fleet mission for the fleet instead of spending time doing ISE is asking their member to give up Omega Marks to advance reputation, Dilithium to buy things, Neural processors for mk xii gear, and a drop to raise funds for all of the above.
The average time for ISE is probably 10 minutes or so, and you are asking players to do something for the fleet instead of a nice mission to help themselves. Therefore its logical to suggest in Al Darth Vader Riveras madhouse time gated universe that fleet mark missions should not only pay equal rewards to ISE with fleet marks inserted instead of Omega Marks but that they also should be winnable in 10 minutes or less.
If ISE pays a drop for winning then so should Fleet Mark missions.
If ISE is fun and requires group play then so should fleet mark missions. Idlers in ISE can destroy the mission. Idlers in Fleet Mark missions such as Azure rescue get the same rewards the 4 active players get.
Additionally, when you play ISE you get over and > 60 omega marks. When you play Azura Nebula Rescue its rare to get greater than or over 20 fleet marks and its time gated to require 15 minutes.
Therefore in comparison to other time gated options fleet mark missions should:
1. Take under 10 minutes
2. Also pay dilithium
3. Reward random drops that can be used or sold
4. Be fun
5. Require team play to win
Now in Al Darth Vadar Riveras madhouse universe he once decided that the problem here was that if ISE gave you so much that it needed to be nerfed also and he took drops and other things out of the STFS. Like with fleet marks the outcry was universally loathed so they put some of the lost loot back in stfs and players were appeased for awhile.
So Cryptic the answer is not to nerf stfs once again to bring them down to the level of the horrible reward packages offered in fleet mark missions but rather to bring fleet mark missions up to the lifeline level of stfs.
Additionally, it should be noted that more than a few players do not pvp or even play stfs because they are too hard. I know its laughable for most of the board readers here who are hard core fans but the good fleet leader is on the lookout for his casual players who want to retain interest in the game and have fun even though they have not spent huge amounts of time, money, and investment in their game experience. On ISE you can play it on a normal level and turn it into ISN if you do not have a great build. Ive played more games than I want to on N settings because thats where some of our members feel comfortable playing. Other members just skip stfs altogether and head for Deferi for their daily dilithium grinding.
Cryptic needs to do a better job explaining skill trees and sets and giving respec tokens to playes so they can enjoy their toons but thats another story for a different post.
So, fleet mark missions should be easy, fun, enjoyable, not take a lot of time, give dilithium, have expanded fleet mark rewards. and be worthwhile for players to play as an option for ISE.
Its upsetting for a fleet leader to ask members to play fleet mark missions when you know your players time is valuable and limited and they can do more for their toons by playing an STF, doing a deferi mission daily, or even some normal missions that might pay a a jem hadar set piece like you find in the features series at deep space 9.
Because Cryptic and Al Darth Vadar Rivera disprespect and assign no value to the players who spend time in game does not mean that fleet leaders should do the same. They should fight for their players and demand that time, visitation, and investment be respected, appreciated, and rewarded.
I believe that fleet mark missions should take no more than 10 minutes and that they should award over 50 fleet marks for winning. Players should get dilithium as an added bonus for doing them. And there should be drops rewarded with a major big drop added as a prize for winning just like in stfs. I believe that the missions should be fun and interactive and that winning them should usually need participation from all players. I believe that there should be optional objectives that give added bonuses and a bit of a challenge worth striving for in the mission.
I believe that it would be much better for fleet leaders to ask their members to do fun happy missions that they know their players might enjoy rather than dull boring members they are absolutely certain their players dislike.
Then maybe starbases will have enough fleet marks to progress and there will be less fussing and fighting between leaders hoping to progress and members who would rather advance their own reputation progression and equipment needs. All fleets are dying for good members that contribute. Even the big fleets often pull out whips and chains and threats to those that play rather than donate. A fleet I love, demoted me 4 ranks and didnt tell me why though I guess its because I had ONLY given 100K fleet marks. Another just blew up because they threatened to kick players that didnt meet donation guidelines.
I think the happier fleets are those that just dont give a flying flip about advancing at all and let the members do whatever they darn feel like doing. It would be a happier game if the Devs took the same approach.
Rather than beat people on the heads with arrogant sticks and gate their time and force them into established patterns and expectations of gameplay with nerfs and destruction, how about throwing some incentives, rewards, and fun at missions where you want to attract more players.
The game didnt have to nerf the foundry or even the clickies. They could have thrown more incentives at the theme park rides where they wanted to attract more passengers.
Players are not bored in this game because there is not enough to do. They are bored because they have to do the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again to get what they want.
Add rewards to more missions rather than taking them away. Restore the efficient impulse engine to its former glory and see if people start doing the mission again that rewards it. Upgrade the Harg'Peng torpedo and see if Doomsday becomes popular again. Fix the trophy missions like Crystalline Entity, Deep Space 9, Starbase 24 ground, and Gekli.
Put in rewards in the normal episodes that scale to level so a person can redo the Kuvagh Magh to earn a usable reward at level 50.
Theres so much thats so easy to do to reward players and make this a fun game. Al Darth Vader Rivera seems only interested in pulling light sabers and swinging the anti-fun bat and destroying everyones fun that he misses the big picture. And Bran Flkes comes along to spin it with Dan Stahl running around meesa too I looked at the data and hes right.
People will think missions are fun if they get rewarded for doing them. The more rewards you nerf and take away, the more you gate people into grinding the same things. This gets them bored and this drives them away. And then fleet leaders have to beg the few souls left to do more with less.
Its just bad.
Give fleet mark missions more rewards and not less and expand the reward structure for doing them.
Sound like what people did with the foundry.. You bet...
I dont really care if its foundry or cryptic designed but fleet marks should pay more, be easier and more fun to get, and take less time and effort. Its a constant struggle to get people to even play this game much less do things that reward the fleet instead of themselves.
Cryptic should look at the big picture rather than data mining so they can bash more fun and then gleefully trot out branflakes to talk about how wonderful the game would be if it was less fun.
One mans opinion,
Bug
Post edited by bugshu on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
In 10 min during bonus event you can get 30 fleet marks on colony invasion(25 at other time)
So 30 fleet marks = 960 dilthium + 90 omega marks+ min 1 BNP + some loot worth min 60k ec
Webkinz is free to play so is Cryptic. At webkinz you buy a $15 pet enter a code into your account and essentially you have a gold membership for a year. You get daily log in bonuses and there is very little else they expect you to buy. They have millions of kiddies with accounts. If they sell 25 million stuffed animals a year at $15 each they are making a fair bit of revenue.
Its a dance between offering value and attracting more customers and then trying to maximize profit from each one and pushing away those that do not put money in their pockets.
Bottom line though, people want to play fun games and cryptic no longer wants or designs their games to be fun. They design them so that if you pay them cash you will have to spend less time doing grind and things that are unfun. Its extortion. Pay me cash for protection and I wont burn your building down. Pay me cash and I will let you have enough gear to enjoy the game at a high level. No, well you can live at Deferi and do something you can handle.
Fleet leaders daily watch their members leave for Guildwars, while Cryptic data mines and says we designed starbases for 25 players and you need to grow if you want to do them and progress.
Hard to grow when Cryptic kicks your players in the teeth and encourages them to go play other games that are more fun for them.
Rarely a day goes by when some member doesnt drop in stop by and apologize for not playing and tell me that they are busy or playing another game or that I should go play it with them. Its a never ending process trying to recruit more players faster than they leave.
Just saying...
1 Dilithium = 1 Fleet Credit
->
1 Fleet Mark = 50 Dilithium
20 Fleet Mark = 1000 Dilithium
also
10000CXP = 75 Fleet Mark
133 CXP = 1 Fleet Mark
This thread has now most definitely run its course, and isn?t providing any constructive feedback, so due to this as well as the nature of the original post, I'm closing this thread down.
Cheers,
syberghost