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"Nerf" of lockbox, c-store, or otherwise primarily "purchasable" items
picardtheiii
Member Posts: 151 Arc User
Hello everyone. Simple and short message here. If items that are primarily "purchased" such as lock box items, c-store items, module ships or so on are going to be nerfed, there should be a "Refund" option provided for folks that have purchased them. It really is dishonest to provide weapons such as the Temporal Disruption Device for purchase and then subsequently nerf them.
Yes, I am aware you could save up the EC to buy keys and open lockboxes to get the weapons, but obviously over 90% of the players who got this weapons payed IRL currency for it and the devs should not so flippantly nerf it to oblivion. Thanks for hearing me out.
Yes, I am aware you could save up the EC to buy keys and open lockboxes to get the weapons, but obviously over 90% of the players who got this weapons payed IRL currency for it and the devs should not so flippantly nerf it to oblivion. Thanks for hearing me out.
Post edited by picardtheiii on
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Regardless, my point is rather that it is dishonest and unfortunate that PWE would treat their customers like this... in a rather innocent.. hey... here i am... im your customer why would you do this to me? kind of way.
Thanks.
I'm a subscriber and I respect fully the terms and condition, every time I buy something I'm very aware of the fact that there will be no refound if the items I purchased do not meet my expectations.. BUT if developers (in more that one occasion) admit that they are nerfing something they SOLD you because it was not in line with the game to start with they are actually admitting an error on their part and IMO its only good (not REQUIRED) bussiness practice to offer some sort of compensation (BTW I own a small bussiness and every time i make a mistake that goes out of MY WALLET not my customers).
PLS english its not my 1st language no troll or flaming intended
Yup. we all agreed to this when we first created an account. Thus, there is nothing they can do about it. We already said that we were fine with them changing stuff on us. We cannot ask for a refund now because we already said that we didn't need one.
And for that matter, It is a game, it is an MMO. They can and will change anything and everything in this game in an attempt to make it more balanced, fix bugs, or in an ill-hearted attempt to make things interesting. As long as the severs are still on, the game will keep evolving and changing from it's base code up. An MMO that does not have updates is dead. So get use to it.
The rule is stupid but rules can and do change all the time.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8054471&postcount=28
Bort says right there they didn't intend to nerf it and wil be changing it back.
Even without that post it should have been obvious to anyone with half a brain that this nerf wasn't intentional but a bug, they never said anything about TDD, just TCD in patch notes. Obviously since TDD also counts as tricobalt it was ACCIDENTALY affected by the nerf to tricobalt and they will fix it soon.
Many companies have similar documents or warnings in place. Yet still offer refunds to their customers when things go wrong.
Why?
Customer retention. They want to keep that customer and maintain the business relationship.
Pushing customers away is usually a bad thing. And hey, it's had a pretty big impact on this game during the time it's been live and playable. They've pushed thousands and thousands of customers away with poor customer service. Folks they could have kept with a bit more effort and some better protocols for helping customers.
The TOS doesn't protect them from lost revenue.
This.
While the Ford example is not a good one. Remember that for STO (and any MMO out there), we DON'T actually own anything (read the TOS) we essentially "lease" everything from characters, items bought, even hundreds of dollars spend on STO. We don't get anything when we walk away.
BUT!!!!!!!!
Companies in the past HAVE refund and compensate players BECAUSE of customer retention. There are plenty of games out there and there are only limit amount of customers (i.e. people who are willing to dish out RL money) STO is aware of this and so does other companies. Every company are trying to get a piece of that pie (which is a billion dollar industry)
On a different note:
While I understand certain items from the STORE can be "overpower" I feel that they shouldn't be nerf like any other item that ARE NOT obtain from the store.
If an item can be purchase for real money, it shouldn't be nerf. I understand that may cause imbalance, but that is the risk when putting items for sale for real money.
What Cryptic should do is what they did similar to the consoles of days of old (trade in for gold pressed latinum) or something similar. The NEW unlock item or purchase will be nerf BUT the original will not.
Players CAN trade that in for in-game compensation or continue to use the item, but no more of that item will be release (essentially make temporal device v2)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
THE TDD IS NOT BEING NERFED. read the link
It was accidenlty broken by the changes to tricobalt torps and will be fixed as stated by the devs in this forum that you people apparently don't know how to read. This discussion about whether things people paid for should be nerfed or not is irrelevant pertaining to the TDD since it was not intentionally nerfed, its just currently bugged and will be fixed.
I read it. that is why I said that IF they are going to nerf paid items, there should be compensation due to customer retention.
TOS states that the Devs (in this case Cryptic) CAN change anything they want for balance and other issue without compensation.
If you READ what I wrote, if they ARE going to nerf TDD, then they should have TWO version. The old one, and the new nerf one that will be in future unlock/purchase
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Or maybe it is like Ford recalling your broken Mustang and fixing it so you don't run over everyone on the sidewalk.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
It might be like the recall you speak of, but nerfing something we intended to use to the full advertised value would be like Ford recalling my broken Stang and fixing it so I dont run over everyone on the sidewalk. Even though I bought it to run over everyone on the sidewalk because they threatened to assimilate my family.
Edit and note: I own nothing that was recently nerfed. I just saw an opportunity to be funny and hope others enjoyed it.
Based on that reasoning, I believe I could state that if something paid for is stupidly broken to be obnoxiously powerful, but is later nerfed to be fair with all the other equipment, the obnoxiously powerful version should be left int o be used and exploited?
Or that anytime they make re-balancing changes to make abilities more in line with others in paid for MMOs they should compensate for that monthly payment I made because they changed something I paid for? Or that I should get to keep the old broken ability with the option of getting the new one?
Welcome to the world of "Online experience subject to change." You acknowledge it when you signed that TOS.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Those are always brilliant and perfectly applicable.
There is a MAJOR difference between skills balance (everyone has access) vs purchase item (limited access) and epic earning items (everyone has access but require time to access)
Changing ANY of the system there are some consequences. If an item can be obtain from gameplay, then it can and should be change to balance things out.
If an item that can only be obtain via real cash only, then this item should NOT be change, but at the same time, the devs should REALLY REALLY REALLY work out the balance before releasing such an item.
This is not about TOS. I read the WHOLE TOS and the devs could change anything they want (that line you gave is a good example) but we are talking about customer retention.
They can make the changes, but as we have learn from Star Wars Galaxies, CoH and other games, when you make a change that is drastic or detrimental, customers WILL leave and go play something else. A mass exodus can happen and it is much harder to get people back.
Hence the compensation idea. It is just to help keep the customer from leaving and spend their money some place else.
There are many games out there now. There are many flavors and choices. A customer can pretty much go anywhere they want to go. What is keeping the player here, is up to the devs.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
So you get something that is tip of the spear then to have that tip chipped away. In some ways the guys putting money into the game deserve consistency. It is not required as per the rules, but rules are set to limit the company's liability, not remove good judgement in day to day operations.
SOme of the fixes and "nerfs" were actually corrections of problems. Unfortunately what can happen is you get owned by a new shiny, decide you want that and then it gets fixed without any real indication it was broken till it was too late. Stats need to be released by the devs with release.
All that said, this is why i wait many months and typically a season before I buy something. I figure it will be nerfed/buffed in the first quarter it is out. It is also why i have not selected my reputation perks yet. Concerned of making life long choice to have it changed. Besides I fair well so far without em and once i get the fleet equipment and the perks I can only get better.
True.
using a car analogy. It is like renting a sport car that can go 0-60 in 3 seconds. It has a powerful engine, but as long you lease it (i.e. pay subs or even c-store purchase, you don't really own it) you can have it. It is not likely that the rental company will come and say, oops! that car can go 0-60 way too fast and should be in 6 seconds instead and take the car away (hence the analogy I gave regarding keeping said model but release a new model with the nerf)
On the other hand, I personally don't mind if an item does 1000 damage (made up number) that I bought this year and the NEXT model (i.e. next shiny item) does 1200 damage. That is the case with the game. The next model are usually better than the current model. This will cause people to always want to buy "the latest and greatest"
but what has happen (or could happen since the nerf was accidental but this is for future reference) is when an item is advertise to do 1000 damage but later was "deemed" too powerful (this sparks the issue of lack of testing and balance for c-store items and just want to get money cause they KNOW people WILL buy it cause it is the best out there) and later nerf it to 600 damage. That is not so cool and make people don't want to buy the latest and greatest (or the next one) cause they "fear" it will be nerf if it seems too powerful which HURTS PW/Cryptic pocket book cause people are NOT rushing to buy the next new shiny cause their last shiny was nerf in less than a month or so.
that is the main point of my discussion. There is a big difference when nerfing something that everyone has access vs c-store only item or c-store related item (like Lobi crystal items)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Yea. The "negatives" usually bring bad press and "worst" in people. I don't see many people complaining on when stuff go their way (like a buff gets better)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
In all fairness, that's simple human nature. It's normal. it's predictable. and Marketing, PR, and good Customer Service people have been aware of it for a very long time.
Wait, so people complain when something is negative and they don't complain about things going there way?
You might be on to something here! Quite a discovery.
Heh. you may mock me on this
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Lets take something simple a card game, no one can TRIBBLE up a card game right, tell that to WotC when three years ago they released this -
Now to some of you this will seem like I'm talking a foreign language, to those who played MtG 3 years ago this will probably bring back horrifying memories of a time when you ran this or ran home.
This card was so powerful that it began to cause turnouts to MtG events to hit their lowest levels almost since the game began, including the casual events like Friday Night Magic.
14 of the top 16 decks in the world ran this card, players who didn't eventually fell to a war of attrition, bounce and Card Advantage. This card is one of two cards to be banned from MtG's Standard Format (The most common official format played) in the last ten years. It is currently banned in every official format except Legacy and Vintage.
How did such a card get made, doesn't Wizards of the Coast have a playtesting department to prevent such things?
Yes they do, but sometimes cards fall through the cracks. They felt that this card wasn't too powerful and that it wouldn't warp the metagame, only to be proven wrong when it reached players hands.
People make mistakes and some things, no matter how much people paid for them are too overpowered and need to be fixed. Bare in mind that Jace is only legal in 2 official formats and one supported format, it's still worth $50 on any MtG pricing site placing it as one of the few cards outside the Power 9 to hold any value post banning, and people were paying that if not more for copies whilst it was legal.
The thing you have to bare in mind is that if something worth real money becomes a "Must Have" in game to remain competitive then it needs to be nerfed to be more respectable, imagine if they release 20 man raids and the Raid Leader kicks everyone not in a Lockbox/Fleet/C-Store ship because they're not powerful enough to be helpful in the content otherwise, how would you feel if all you had was your RA ship?
I (mistakenly, thinking it was good) picked up a Stasis Pistol which comes from the Lobi store. I don't use it because it's broken, and I have welcomed both attempts to nerf/fix it, though both have been unsuccessful. When it's fixed, I might use it. Holding a superbuffed Tac in the stasis field long enough to survive/get out of there will be absolutely invaluable to me, but I don't want to risk it being abused by others on my team.
Fanfiction! ZOMG! Read it now!
kate-wintersbite.deviantart.com/art/0x01-Treachery-293641403
I acknowledged that you "can" get anything in the game through dilith grinding (still time gated, and a recent thread talked about 100k dilithium for about 400 lobi of lockboxes so going that route you are looking at 25 days or something for elite ship)
Then of course you can purchase keys off the exchange for EC simply because the ability to sell keys and trade in zen of dilithium is actually a mechanism all about ensuring that anything in the game can be bought with rl currency
No it isn't. Your statement is inherently flawed, because it implies that you are paying for a discrete item that you own in totality, when actually you're paying for usage of a class of item, the specific contents of which may change as necessary.
Or in terms you can understand: You are not buying a ford mustang. You are paying to ride the bus. Then Cryptic is saying "Yeah, so we're going to get rid of the big 30 passenger busses that go by once an hour, and replace them with smaller 15 passenger busses that go by once every thirty minutes."
THAT is what's happening. You're paying for a service. You aren't purchasing a discrete and never-to-be-altered item.
It is true that you arent purchasing an item that actually becomes your property.
But even in your example there is a lesson to be learned. First off lets not use a government service as government is not really responsible to the people it serves since there is usually no competition.
It is like you purchase technical support from a certain big box computer store and they tell you they will come to your house for an unlimited amount of time to fix your computer. Then suddenly they say, ah that wasn't really a sustainable plan. Now you have to bring your computer in and you only get 10 minutes of support each visit. That's ridiculous and if I had purchased the plan when they provided on site support I would sure as heck be demanding a refund on the plan if I didn't want to have to bring my computer to the store!