Currently, the primary reasoning for having a starbase at all is to gain access to special fleet-only items, like ultra rare weapons and fleet ships. These unlocks require a huge amount of resources and these resources MUST be donated by fleet members. Currently, there are few reasons to remain in a small fleet or to work towards building a large fleet base when it will take much less work to simply join a large fleet. There's no real game-play choice here. Either struggle along with a few friends an, maybe, get there, or sign up with an already-established fleet and gain access to what you want immediately.
Alternative advancements for large and small fleets are interesting, but I think the mechanisms involved are too divisive. An ideal solution would be a single, unified system that doesn't require a scaling metric and can be rewarding to fleets no matter what their size.
The fleet starbases are isolated systems. That's what needs to be addressed.
Give fleets the ability to set up basic "requisition agreements" that allow one party to temporarily access the resources of another. These "agreements" take the form of a project, just like any fleet base improvement. A small fleet may not be able to grind up to T3 fleet ships any time soon, but they should be able to afford a smaller scale project that lets them access a larger fleet's shipyards or weapon's stores for the time that it's "completing". The small fleet benefits by gaining access to wanted equipment and the larger fleet gets an infusion of resources to devote to existing projects.
The number of friendly fleets a party can arrange such agreements with can determined by their embassy tier. The agreements themselves have a timer that prevents them from being cancelled quickly and slotting another small fleet into place, say, a week or more. That should prevent a single large fleet from, effectively, becoming a fleet-ship factory for the rest of the fleets out there.
That should present each fleet with more interesting choices as well as benefiting all sorts of fleets. Smaller fleets that dont' care about numbers will have access to weapons they want. Large fleets with huge starbases can more easily afford uber-projects.
Only problem with this is that joining a large fleet doesn't necessarily get you access to whatever you want. Provisions are limited too, and new fleet members are usually locked out of fleet stores for a while until the earlier members use up the provisions they want.
And I like your idea of small and large fleets sharing resources, but I think it'd be difficult to manage the permissions on provisions in that case.
This could also work Very well. Since again it rewards you for more folks and less folks. its also somewhat, exploit proof since it would take longer with less.
Wasn't trying to crush your spirit or be an a**-clown, but speaking as someone in a small fleet, I'd rather have the projects be proportional to the number of people attempting to complete them.
That way, we all have access to the same gear, at the same relative cost per player. This would also mean people wouldn't have to join large fleets if they didn't want to. That'd be a win for those of us who aren't interested in drama creeping into our limited video game time.
Also, it would counter the creation of the uber-fleets. If the project inputs were proportional to the number of fleet members, a 500 person fleet wouldn't be any better off than a 15 person fleet and a 15 person fleet wouldn't be any worse off than a 500 person fleet.
The problem is the ability to leave and join fleets. Your method rewards people for levelling a fleet of say 5 people, then expanding it out huge once all the expensive stuff is done at a very cheap cost. All it achieves is people join the fleets after they finish levelling, instead of now where people join the big ones, or merge existing fleets, during levelling so it grows faster.
Also, in the end this would be a massive income loss for cryptic, so not likely to happen. For example, if it takes 500 people in one fleet 50m dil to get to tier 5 (number pulled out of my bum) but only takes 5 people in one fleet 500k dil to reach the same point... cryptic will be screwed.
speaking as someone in a small fleet, I'd rather have the projects be proportional to the number of people attempting to complete them.
As someone in a small fleet, I'd like that too.
The problem is how to prevent exploiting that so that fleets can't temporarily drop their membership, race to Tier V with everybody kicking in the non-bound requirements, then invite everybody back in.
I kind of like the idea that if the Starbase progression can't scale, why can't the rewards?
In other words, if you're doing a team mission with all fleet members, why can't those rewards scale up based on the size of the fleet? You could still PUG stuff if you chose, but doing them as a fleet would reward better and if you're a smaller fleet you gain fleet marks at a higher rate.
(Not my idea... I'm paraphrasing somebody else's)
Still exploitable, of course, and likely not trivial to implement but it would certainly encourage fleet-play.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Also, in the end this would be a massive income loss for cryptic, so not likely to happen. For example, if it takes 500 people in one fleet 50m dil to get to tier 5 (number pulled out of my bum) but only takes 5 people in one fleet 500k dil to reach the same point... cryptic will be screwed.
I'm not so much worried about the Dilithium. That can be obtained in a number of different ways (though it's still difficult to get without grinding for it). It's the fleet marks that you can't get enough of.
Fleet marks aren't tied to Dilithium and can't be bought with Zen, so it doesn't affect Cryptic's bottom line the same way.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Only problem with this is that joining a large fleet doesn't necessarily get you access to whatever you want. Provisions are limited too, and new fleet members are usually locked out of fleet stores for a while until the earlier members use up the provisions they want.
And I like your idea of small and large fleets sharing resources, but I think it'd be difficult to manage the permissions on provisions in that case.
That's true, but in this case, the fleet provisions would be supplied by the smaller fleet anyway. Yet another reason to consider maybe joining a smaller fleet rather than a larger one.
Management of permissions isn't a problem at all. You send a requisition agreement request, the request is approved. Both fleets gain access to all of the requisition agreement projects and either party can cancel the agreement after a set amount of time. In theory, a larger fleet could also use this as a way for members to gain fleet credit by sending surplus resources to a smaller fleet in exchange for access to facilities they never intend to use. Remember, that access to the facilities by a small fleet doesn't cause the larger fleet any kind of resource burden. The smaller fleet members must still pony up the EC, Dil, provisions, and fleet modules to actually purchase the things they want.
The problem is the ability to leave and join fleets. Your method rewards people for levelling a fleet of say 5 people, then expanding it out huge once all the expensive stuff is done at a very cheap cost. All it achieves is people join the fleets after they finish levelling, instead of now where people join the big ones, or merge existing fleets, during levelling so it grows faster.
Nothing is stopping that mega fleet from tossing everyone out once everything is done right now so this, is really not an issue that doesn't already exist in the game right now, we've recently seen threads about things like this already. even if they did level it up at 5 man then opened up to everyone, all it does is mean they have to do more projects for provisions and the like.
Also, in the end this would be a massive income loss for cryptic, so not likely to happen. For example, if it takes 500 people in one fleet 50m dil to get to tier 5 (number pulled out of my bum) but only takes 5 people in one fleet 500k dil to reach the same point... cryptic will be screwed.
I don't see it as a "massive" income lost for cryptic, right now my 9 man fleet is stopping at T3, because the effort per member has gone beyond what we want to do. meaning that any potential income from us, is gone. Now scaling via time or another method means we may change our mind and go all the way out to T5, which opens up more need for items and more chances of income from us. Using time as a scale actually benefits Cryptic because we will be in the game longer, meaning potential sales.
The problem is how to prevent exploiting that so that fleets can't temporarily drop their membership, race to Tier V with everybody kicking in the non-bound requirements, then invite everybody back in.
I kind of like the idea that if the Starbase progression can't scale, why can't the rewards?
In other words, if you're doing a team mission with all fleet members, why can't those rewards scale up based on the size of the fleet? You could still PUG stuff if you chose, but doing them as a fleet would reward better and if you're a smaller fleet you gain fleet marks at a higher rate.
(Not my idea... I'm paraphrasing somebody else's)
Still exploitable, of course, and likely not trivial to implement but it would certainly encourage fleet-play.
Ok, then fleets are locked at scaled levels forever. Or... Cryptic charges an appropriate amount to increase roster sizes only. :eek:
Two. Fleet Credit you earn in a fleet, stays with the fleet. You leave, its gone. Go earn it in another fleet to buy stuff there. Go back to your old fleet, it's still there.
Running colony invasion it is possible with 5 toons to run it 10 times during the event - for a total of 300 marks.
If you have 5 fleet members run this 2 times per week or 4 hours - that equals:
300x2 = 600 x5 = 3000 Fleet marks per week.
Now It is mind numbing but I did run it ever day like this for 4 weeks at the beginning of starbases because the was the ONLY source of Fleet marks - people seem to forget that!!
Make projects have countdown timers. Pick a project to work on and its timer starts counting down the resources needed so that each day everything drops by something like 5-10% then those that can will fill the projects quicker to get access to the goodies faster or simply for prestige while smaller fleets can wait a little but eventually get there in the end.
Make projects have countdown timers. Pick a project to work on and its timer starts counting down the resources needed so that each day everything drops by something like 5-10% then those that can will fill the projects quicker to get access to the goodies faster or simply for prestige while smaller fleets can wait a little but eventually get there in the end.
That might be a good idea. The problem that springs to mind is that someone will figure out the optimum "wait time" and it will end up doing larger fleets more good than smaller fleets. Some clever math might be able to make it reasonably fair, however. Worth consideration, though.
A Fleet Ship costs 20,000 FC + 4 Fleet Modules, if I cannot generate FCs (and I cannot if projects stall due to lack of Fleet Marks) I cannot buy then, same applied to Fleet weapons and the like that have both a FC cost and a Dilithium cost.
Simply put, I cannot spend Dilithium on the Fleet system because its tied with Fleet Credits and the amounts required are not exactly small either, also by extend I will not buy Fleet Ship Modules because I lack the the Fleet Credits required to buy the ship.
And this goes on to Provisions ...
You are simply NOT looking the big picture, it seems people are so focused in Dilithium they apparently ignore one reality, Dilithium was coupled with other currencies and the Zen store been so neglected its a non-factor, Zen at this point only have three uses ... Lockbox keys, Fleet Modules and Respecs.
I'm not sure about these large scale economics you speak of (I'm not an accountant, I only play one on TV) but Fleet credits are no problem in a small fleet.
As to fleet mark generation, only Cryptic can address that.... just need to pour a bit more of it into any ingame activity that requires more than 1 breathing player to put fingers to keyboard, and a wrist in jeopardy of carpal tunnel.
And Zen, well if my fleet was scaled, I would be buying all the fleet trinkets, well maybe not the mannequins though.... I'd need more storage room... more ship slots... more alts... Cryptic... can you smell the money?
As a small fleet we constantly run into 3 problems.
-Doffs
This was alleviated sum with the common fleet officer boxes. However, Medical and Security in general are still excruciating hard to come by. Opening 40 boxes only gives 4 of each, with most being useless civilian and science officers.
-Dilithium
Upgrade projects are huge waste of Dil, right now with 4 active fleet members we need to spend collectively 324k dil to upgrade to tier 3 shipyards. This is only so I can dump even more money into the game and get some fleet ships. Furthermore, I can't focus on getting any fleet weapons simply because all my Dil is going into these upgrade projects.
-Fleet marks
This to me is the most aggravating thing. There is a fleet mark bonus pool available for 10k fleet credits. It really needs to be expanded because the 100 mark bonus is really a pittance. Right now my fleet needs over 6000 fleet marks to complete just the current projects slated. With 4 active members it feels insurmountable. Furthermore I have over 9000 Omega Marks, and 100's of BNPs. I have no shortage of play time, I just can't stomach playing 10 rounds a night of colony invasion.
I've pondered this a lot and my conclusion is simple.....
It can't be done.
There are several theoretical avenues, but there are 3 basic categories each with a different reason not to do it.
1: make it so small fleets advance faster
This has several inherent issues.
1a: It forces fleet leaders to make a decision about whether to let inactive members stay on the roster or kick them out for being inactive. Depending on how it scales this might not be a huge issue, but it's still going to be there.
1b: Sockpuppetry. A fleet could have several ghost members who join, contribute, then leave to keep the roster size down. In an extreme case you could have a fleet with 5 or less permanent members and 50 or more "ghost" members. This cabal could reap the benefits of a smaller fleet while contributing resources at the rate of a large fleet.
1c: also, would it be by player or char? Either way it's a bit of a catch 22 someone would suffer while others benefited.
2: make fleet advancement faster in general.
this doesn't really help small fleets specifically. It would make large fleets adavance even faster than they do already.
3: slow down large fleets.
do I really need to explain why this is a bad idea?
I've pondered this a lot and my conclusion is simple.....
It can't be done.
There are several theoretical avenues, but there are 3 basic categories each with a different reason not to do it.
1: make it so small fleets advance faster
This has several inherent issues.
1a: It forces fleet leaders to make a decision about whether to let inactive members stay on the roster or kick them out for being inactive. Depending on how it scales this might not be a huge issue, but it's still going to be there.
1b: Sockpuppetry. A fleet could have several ghost members who join, contribute, then leave to keep the roster size down. In an extreme case you could have a fleet with 5 or less permanent members and 50 or more "ghost" members. This cabal could reap the benefits of a smaller fleet while contributing resources at the rate of a large fleet.
1c: also, would it be by player or char? Either way it's a bit of a catch 22 someone would suffer while others benefited.
2: make fleet advancement faster in general.
this doesn't really help small fleets specifically. It would make large fleets adavance even faster than they do already.
3: slow down large fleets.
do I really need to explain why this is a bad idea?
Doesn't give a particular advantage to any size of fleet, but small ones can trade time for progress slowly. Doesn't hurt big fleets. And if any single item is a bottleneck (marks/dil) it can be worked around by using one of the other components for that specific project.
You are simply NOT looking the big picture, it seems people are so focused in Dilithium they apparently ignore one reality, Dilithium was coupled with other currencies and the Zen store been so neglected its a non-factor, Zen at this point only have three uses ... Lockbox keys, Fleet Modules and Respecs.
Depends on how long the player has been in the game. What you say may be true of those vets who've been playing since beta, but it's not true of everyone.
Speaking only for myself, I still have well over 100,000 zen worth of ships, costumes and character upgrades (boff slots, doff slots, inventory, bank slots etc) that I'd like to get. I have no use for fleet modules even if I was in a t5 fleet, I have no need for respecs and I don't particularly need lockboxes though I don't oppose them and do grab a key here and there off the auctionhouse.
I'm not so much worried about the Dilithium. That can be obtained in a number of different ways (though it's still difficult to get without grinding for it). It's the fleet marks that you can't get enough of.
Fleet marks aren't tied to Dilithium and can't be bought with Zen, so it doesn't affect Cryptic's bottom line the same way.
Solid point. What did you think of my idea to add flexibility into how projects are completed? In otherwords instead of making it 100 fleet marks and 60k dilithium and this and that... Just some much smaller minimum of each, but after that toss in any amount of any required item to get to the end.
Track it by total fleet credits so it uses tech that's already in the game. I also suggested giving fleet marks in an ongoing manner for all game activities performed while teamed with a fleetmate.
I think, between the two should be most of the problem done. Those final upgrades are still going to be a huge slog. But I'm ok with jus a few huge slogs if everything else is smoothed out.
They are a problem when projects stall, we have T4 projects that cost 900 Fleet Marks, can you generate those 900 Fleet Marks per day with 5 people as it stands?
No, advancement stops and even if you have hundred or even million of Fleet Credits there is also requirements to progress, like DOFFs meaning you either spend EC at 90k each or you spend FC that brings down your own FC supply.
This is even more evident on the Embassy were Supplies cost FCs and the cost is tiered at the expense of smaller Fleets that simply have to pay MORE because they dont have a higher tier on the Fabricator.
The only reason Fleet Credits are not a problem in small fleets is because projects dont get filled with the oh so hard to get Expertise or other "requirements" that are easier to get, of course this shows a problem doesnt it?
You are hitting the start of the incline (think of a bell) in the second to last stretch to the victory line that a is very difficult but not impossible to overcome, as we have been informed elseware... because the current Starbase system was not designed around that few members.
So until the ground rules are changed, I've heard that patience is a virtue...
Every month you don't increase by a tier, your fleet gets a buff that increases gains by 25% from all projects.
This stacks up to 8 times.
Likewise, Cryptic could pick some relatively inactive periods (halfway between seasons?) and run bonus Fleet XP month that stacks with the "rested" bonus.
I also am inclined towards the following:
Fleet special project slot should award fleet XP directly. (Ie. cosmetic projects.)
This would award STARBASE XP but NOT the individual categories (tac/sci/eng).
Likewise, have straight 200k dil sinks that also award STARBASE XP directly.
This means, for example, that a small fleet could get a starbase to T5 without any of the categories getting to T1. They'd still need to level the categories for certain rewards but, for example, if they're just into the Fleet ships, they could focus on nothing but Tactical and hit T5 with Tac in a T5 Starbase while having 0 Sci or Eng XP.
In fact, there may be an interesting way to balance this:
Offer direct Starbase XP (which doesn't raise individual categories) for dilithium at 90k dil per 250 via repeatable special project on a 7 day timer.
Offer individual category XP for ZEN. Maybe something like 200 ZEN per 1000.
This allows fleets to set and choose focuses... and a reasonably active small fleet doesn't have to buy it's way through.
The progress is still gated by starbase upgrade projects and the speed of the dil->starbase XP projects.
This would allow anyone to buy their way through but they would take 12 months. However it means that nobody would take more than 12 months if they were willing to put money in. Because it's a limited quantity per week, it shouldn't dramatically speed up giant fleets.
So in this case, a giant fleet going all out might complete a starbase in 5 months instead of 7. But a small fleet pumping the dil and ZEN in can guarantee they complete it in a year. But it will cost them $1000 or so worth of goods over a year if that is all they do. Still, that's like 5-6 people spending $15 a month each.
How about a one to one conversion assignment to change Reputation Marks into Fleet Marks, and vice versa? You can already change Omega and Romulan Marks into Dilithium, it would go some way to make up for the loss of the IOR marks for those players sick to death of the existing Fleet mark PvE queue missions. If one to one seems too low, make it ten to one, or have the number of Reputation Marks to Fleet Marks scale depending on the fleet size.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
How about a one to one conversion assignment to change Reputation Marks into Fleet Marks, and vice versa? You can already change Omega and Romulan Marks into Dilithium, it would go some way to make up for the loss of the IOR marks for those players sick to death of the existing Fleet mark PvE queue missions. If one to one seems too low, make it ten to one, or have the number of Reputation Marks to Fleet Marks scale depending on the fleet size.
I was thinking that this would be something that's in order. It'd also be an indirect way of giving STFs (a group-based activity!) a way of giving Fleet Marks.
Doesn't give a particular advantage to any size of fleet, but small ones can trade time for progress slowly. Doesn't hurt big fleets. And if any single item is a bottleneck (marks/dil) it can be worked around by using one of the other components for that specific project.
I have to say that your twist on scaling is interesting(in a good way).
In general your ideas fit in category 2. They MIGHT help small fleets more than large, but it's hard to be sure.
I like your idea about making project inputs more flexible, but I have enough experience with larger fleets to know that they will like that too. It would DEFINATELY help small fleets, but it would also help large fleets a lot.
As a small fleet we constantly run into 3 problems.
-Fleet marks
This to me is the most aggravating thing. There is a fleet mark bonus pool available for 10k fleet credits. It really needs to be expanded because the 100 mark bonus is really a pittance. Right now my fleet needs over 6000 fleet marks to complete just the current projects slated. With 4 active members it feels insurmountable. Furthermore I have over 9000 Omega Marks, and 100's of BNPs. I have no shortage of play time, I just can't stomach playing 10 rounds a night of colony invasion.
The 4 of you need to group up every day during the bonus event and q in for 2 hours of colony invasion - it will be much more fun if it is the 4 fleet members and 1 add on. Even if you get an AFKer there is still the 4 of you to carry the mission.
the 4 of you would earn 1200 fleet marks during that time - so 5 nights of this and your 6000 marks is done.
Comments
Only problem with this is that joining a large fleet doesn't necessarily get you access to whatever you want. Provisions are limited too, and new fleet members are usually locked out of fleet stores for a while until the earlier members use up the provisions they want.
And I like your idea of small and large fleets sharing resources, but I think it'd be difficult to manage the permissions on provisions in that case.
Also, in the end this would be a massive income loss for cryptic, so not likely to happen. For example, if it takes 500 people in one fleet 50m dil to get to tier 5 (number pulled out of my bum) but only takes 5 people in one fleet 500k dil to reach the same point... cryptic will be screwed.
As someone in a small fleet, I'd like that too.
The problem is how to prevent exploiting that so that fleets can't temporarily drop their membership, race to Tier V with everybody kicking in the non-bound requirements, then invite everybody back in.
I kind of like the idea that if the Starbase progression can't scale, why can't the rewards?
In other words, if you're doing a team mission with all fleet members, why can't those rewards scale up based on the size of the fleet? You could still PUG stuff if you chose, but doing them as a fleet would reward better and if you're a smaller fleet you gain fleet marks at a higher rate.
(Not my idea... I'm paraphrasing somebody else's)
Still exploitable, of course, and likely not trivial to implement but it would certainly encourage fleet-play.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I'm not so much worried about the Dilithium. That can be obtained in a number of different ways (though it's still difficult to get without grinding for it). It's the fleet marks that you can't get enough of.
Fleet marks aren't tied to Dilithium and can't be bought with Zen, so it doesn't affect Cryptic's bottom line the same way.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
That's true, but in this case, the fleet provisions would be supplied by the smaller fleet anyway. Yet another reason to consider maybe joining a smaller fleet rather than a larger one.
Management of permissions isn't a problem at all. You send a requisition agreement request, the request is approved. Both fleets gain access to all of the requisition agreement projects and either party can cancel the agreement after a set amount of time. In theory, a larger fleet could also use this as a way for members to gain fleet credit by sending surplus resources to a smaller fleet in exchange for access to facilities they never intend to use. Remember, that access to the facilities by a small fleet doesn't cause the larger fleet any kind of resource burden. The smaller fleet members must still pony up the EC, Dil, provisions, and fleet modules to actually purchase the things they want.
And if it takes 25 players 2 years to hit Tier 5 - what is the problem?
I don't see it as a "massive" income lost for cryptic, right now my 9 man fleet is stopping at T3, because the effort per member has gone beyond what we want to do. meaning that any potential income from us, is gone. Now scaling via time or another method means we may change our mind and go all the way out to T5, which opens up more need for items and more chances of income from us. Using time as a scale actually benefits Cryptic because we will be in the game longer, meaning potential sales.
Ok, then fleets are locked at scaled levels forever. Or... Cryptic charges an appropriate amount to increase roster sizes only. :eek:
Two. Fleet Credit you earn in a fleet, stays with the fleet. You leave, its gone. Go earn it in another fleet to buy stuff there. Go back to your old fleet, it's still there.
Exploit that.
If you have 5 fleet members run this 2 times per week or 4 hours - that equals:
300x2 = 600 x5 = 3000 Fleet marks per week.
Now It is mind numbing but I did run it ever day like this for 4 weeks at the beginning of starbases because the was the ONLY source of Fleet marks - people seem to forget that!!
Make projects have countdown timers. Pick a project to work on and its timer starts counting down the resources needed so that each day everything drops by something like 5-10% then those that can will fill the projects quicker to get access to the goodies faster or simply for prestige while smaller fleets can wait a little but eventually get there in the end.
That might be a good idea. The problem that springs to mind is that someone will figure out the optimum "wait time" and it will end up doing larger fleets more good than smaller fleets. Some clever math might be able to make it reasonably fair, however. Worth consideration, though.
I'm not sure about these large scale economics you speak of (I'm not an accountant, I only play one on TV) but Fleet credits are no problem in a small fleet.
As to fleet mark generation, only Cryptic can address that.... just need to pour a bit more of it into any ingame activity that requires more than 1 breathing player to put fingers to keyboard, and a wrist in jeopardy of carpal tunnel.
And Zen, well if my fleet was scaled, I would be buying all the fleet trinkets, well maybe not the mannequins though.... I'd need more storage room... more ship slots... more alts... Cryptic... can you smell the money?
-Doffs
This was alleviated sum with the common fleet officer boxes. However, Medical and Security in general are still excruciating hard to come by. Opening 40 boxes only gives 4 of each, with most being useless civilian and science officers.
-Dilithium
Upgrade projects are huge waste of Dil, right now with 4 active fleet members we need to spend collectively 324k dil to upgrade to tier 3 shipyards. This is only so I can dump even more money into the game and get some fleet ships. Furthermore, I can't focus on getting any fleet weapons simply because all my Dil is going into these upgrade projects.
-Fleet marks
This to me is the most aggravating thing. There is a fleet mark bonus pool available for 10k fleet credits. It really needs to be expanded because the 100 mark bonus is really a pittance. Right now my fleet needs over 6000 fleet marks to complete just the current projects slated. With 4 active members it feels insurmountable. Furthermore I have over 9000 Omega Marks, and 100's of BNPs. I have no shortage of play time, I just can't stomach playing 10 rounds a night of colony invasion.
It can't be done.
There are several theoretical avenues, but there are 3 basic categories each with a different reason not to do it.
1: make it so small fleets advance faster
This has several inherent issues.
1a: It forces fleet leaders to make a decision about whether to let inactive members stay on the roster or kick them out for being inactive. Depending on how it scales this might not be a huge issue, but it's still going to be there.
1b: Sockpuppetry. A fleet could have several ghost members who join, contribute, then leave to keep the roster size down. In an extreme case you could have a fleet with 5 or less permanent members and 50 or more "ghost" members. This cabal could reap the benefits of a smaller fleet while contributing resources at the rate of a large fleet.
1c: also, would it be by player or char? Either way it's a bit of a catch 22 someone would suffer while others benefited.
2: make fleet advancement faster in general.
this doesn't really help small fleets specifically. It would make large fleets adavance even faster than they do already.
3: slow down large fleets.
do I really need to explain why this is a bad idea?
My character Tsin'xing
I'm curious what you think of my proposal:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8061911&postcount=39
Doesn't give a particular advantage to any size of fleet, but small ones can trade time for progress slowly. Doesn't hurt big fleets. And if any single item is a bottleneck (marks/dil) it can be worked around by using one of the other components for that specific project.
Depends on how long the player has been in the game. What you say may be true of those vets who've been playing since beta, but it's not true of everyone.
Speaking only for myself, I still have well over 100,000 zen worth of ships, costumes and character upgrades (boff slots, doff slots, inventory, bank slots etc) that I'd like to get. I have no use for fleet modules even if I was in a t5 fleet, I have no need for respecs and I don't particularly need lockboxes though I don't oppose them and do grab a key here and there off the auctionhouse.
Solid point. What did you think of my idea to add flexibility into how projects are completed? In otherwords instead of making it 100 fleet marks and 60k dilithium and this and that... Just some much smaller minimum of each, but after that toss in any amount of any required item to get to the end.
Track it by total fleet credits so it uses tech that's already in the game. I also suggested giving fleet marks in an ongoing manner for all game activities performed while teamed with a fleetmate.
I think, between the two should be most of the problem done. Those final upgrades are still going to be a huge slog. But I'm ok with jus a few huge slogs if everything else is smoothed out.
You are hitting the start of the incline (think of a bell) in the second to last stretch to the victory line that a is very difficult but not impossible to overcome, as we have been informed elseware... because the current Starbase system was not designed around that few members.
So until the ground rules are changed, I've heard that patience is a virtue...
Every month you don't increase by a tier, your fleet gets a buff that increases gains by 25% from all projects.
This stacks up to 8 times.
Likewise, Cryptic could pick some relatively inactive periods (halfway between seasons?) and run bonus Fleet XP month that stacks with the "rested" bonus.
I also am inclined towards the following:
Fleet special project slot should award fleet XP directly. (Ie. cosmetic projects.)
This would award STARBASE XP but NOT the individual categories (tac/sci/eng).
Likewise, have straight 200k dil sinks that also award STARBASE XP directly.
This means, for example, that a small fleet could get a starbase to T5 without any of the categories getting to T1. They'd still need to level the categories for certain rewards but, for example, if they're just into the Fleet ships, they could focus on nothing but Tactical and hit T5 with Tac in a T5 Starbase while having 0 Sci or Eng XP.
In fact, there may be an interesting way to balance this:
Offer direct Starbase XP (which doesn't raise individual categories) for dilithium at 90k dil per 250 via repeatable special project on a 7 day timer.
Offer individual category XP for ZEN. Maybe something like 200 ZEN per 1000.
This allows fleets to set and choose focuses... and a reasonably active small fleet doesn't have to buy it's way through.
The progress is still gated by starbase upgrade projects and the speed of the dil->starbase XP projects.
This would allow anyone to buy their way through but they would take 12 months. However it means that nobody would take more than 12 months if they were willing to put money in. Because it's a limited quantity per week, it shouldn't dramatically speed up giant fleets.
So in this case, a giant fleet going all out might complete a starbase in 5 months instead of 7. But a small fleet pumping the dil and ZEN in can guarantee they complete it in a year. But it will cost them $1000 or so worth of goods over a year if that is all they do. Still, that's like 5-6 people spending $15 a month each.
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
I was thinking that this would be something that's in order. It'd also be an indirect way of giving STFs (a group-based activity!) a way of giving Fleet Marks.
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
Absolutely not. The instant cash income enters the equation, Cryptic gains a massive incentive to keep the starbase grind stupidly long.
In general your ideas fit in category 2. They MIGHT help small fleets more than large, but it's hard to be sure.
I like your idea about making project inputs more flexible, but I have enough experience with larger fleets to know that they will like that too.
My character Tsin'xing
Just a shame though eh?!
Would have been nice to finish the damn thing...
The 4 of you need to group up every day during the bonus event and q in for 2 hours of colony invasion - it will be much more fun if it is the 4 fleet members and 1 add on. Even if you get an AFKer there is still the 4 of you to carry the mission.
the 4 of you would earn 1200 fleet marks during that time - so 5 nights of this and your 6000 marks is done.
Plug your nose and jump in!!