It always keeps me wonder if there is a way of improving our chances in getting the prize ship or 50 lobi crystals out of lockboxes.
The reason being is that I saw someone getting 2 lockbox ships in 2 days It's a a very good luck thing for him. This was before the Dominion box came out, so it was still with Temporal lockbox event.
Now, I am short of 28 lobi crystals to upgrade my Jem'Hadar ground equipment set. I hope I could get the JH Escort Carrier.
You can get 5000 dilith per claim if you're even remotely good at it.
Or, to put it plainer: You can recover up to 380000 of your costs with those.
This is not entirely accurate. You should only consider the "recovery" as what extra dilith he would make OVER what he could make in the same amount of time doing the typical things in game (investigates, conduit elite, etc.) Still a benefit but not to the degree you suggest.
5,000 Dilithium currently works out to about 800k EC, but when you get a minimum of 7 claims (35,000 Dilithium), that works out to 5.6mil EC. That more than covers the cost of the lockbox key. Even better, it hardly takes 5 minutes to get that 5k dilithium each day.
The reason being is that I saw someone getting 2 lockbox ships in 2 days It's a a very good luck thing for him. This was before the Dominion box came out, so it was still with Temporal lockbox event.
I would guess it's either true RNG luck or hehad a stack ofkeys and spammed opening them hoping for a fortuitous server glitch.
My best toon will now spend nearly 3 months dilithium mining, with dil from doffs and un-needed omega marks and processors there is not much point doing STFs with her.
From the characters point of view it is a bit like a prison sentence.
Jack, you're absolutely right that expecting specific rewards from the lockboxes is a recipe for disappointing. Like you, the only prize I count on is the Lobi and doff packs... if I get a rare prize on top of that I look at it as a bonus.
Adding to my previous post, I did receive 50 Lobi in one dominion box the other day! A once off too I might add for me anyways. The Ferengi LB are apparently the most generous giving up to 20 at a time. The rest are between 4 and 10 I think.
In another note, there is some shady little Ferengi in the right hand corner by the window just across from the water fountain by Admiral Quinn's office in Earth Spacedock GIVING AWAY lockboxes and Keys!!!!
He caught my eye yesterday as I ran past. I approached out of curiosity and he sent me to Drozana Station. The minute you beam into the station there is a crate directly ahead of you glowing. If you open it you will complete the mission he sent you on and get two boxes and two keys. Inside you get only 1 item (either 1 lobi or special ship/ground equipment) as oppose to the usual 2 items (lobi & special equipment). The keys you get from him do NOT open regular lock boxes either unfortunately.
In truth, if people are really hard up about getting stuff off of the lobi store but do not want to waste their time on lock boxes I recommend you contact people like me. I'll happily buy the stuff for you and sell them for EC.
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
I've been doing the same with my dil just because I need a new ship like I need a hole in the head.
I've found the secondary rewards in this box to be far better than the secondary rewards in the last couple since those were more fleet focused. Just as useful as the Cardassian box IMHO.
The gear and ships are good for some quick exchange cash. The doffs (Which have been the reward given about 75% of the time) are pretty helpful for your lower level toons. And sometimes you get one or two to sell on the exchange.
I like doing the mining because it's quick and easy and fun to bounce around in the low gravity, so the claims are welcome to me.
As for the Lobi... You get more on average from the Ferengi box I believe. But you still have to wait a while to get anything useful from the Lobi store. Since I keep very little in my bank (All gear is either equipped, sold, or passed along to another character) the Lobi pile sitting there isn't hurting me.
Over all, I like this box and if a player doesn't have anything better to do with their dil-bought Zen like me, I don't see why they don't open a few.
Yeah, I've had decent returns myself. I got a few of the new special purple Doffs. what I got most often was reinforcements packs. I didn't see anything even remotely close to a 76% drop rate of dil mining claims.
I don't think it's proof. You'd need to get into the code for that. But it is a good indication that the odds generator for it may be skewed to the low side.
Thats proof enough for me, and i'm saying that as a programmer that works with more random number generators than I care to think about. I'm well aware of how to skew them, as you put it. And frankly you just described an effort at hard coding them to be rigged.
We've figured out past drop rates, but nothing is forcing Cryptic to keep the same odds. For all we know they could be altering the drop rates from week to week or box to box. We really have no way of knowing besides someone doing this kind of thing.
That would be a blatant scam and very illegal. Cryptic would have alot of explaining to do if anyone got it in their head to make an issue of it. It would be very easy to argue that they were exploiting people intentionally and secretly by doing such a thing. They aren't that stupid
Jack, you're absolutely right that expecting specific rewards from the lockboxes is a recipe for disappointing. Like you, the only prize I count on is the Lobi and doff packs... if I get a rare prize on top of that I look at it as a bonus.
Except that they are sold on the concept of winning one of the rewards being the point of buying them, not for lobi crystals. That should then be a red flag
Hmm bad luck OP?
For the record, there is no such thing as luck or true randomness in a 'random' generator based reward system. Any programmer will tell you that
Well this is my plan, i will keep opening boxes (with keys bought with dilithium) until i get enough lobi for buying a few things I want from the store. If I got the Heavy escort carrier before hitting my lobi goal, fine then.
If i don't get the escort carrier, the i will buy keys an sell them in the exchange until i can buy it from the exchange
"In every age,
In every place,
The deeds of men remain the same..."
100 Lockboxes, (cost 990,000 Dilithium for the keys, exchanging at 88:1) wanted a Jem?Hadar Heavy Escort Carrier. Didnt get it.
Did Get:
Liked: Purple Doffs: 3,
Bio Warheads 3 (but only needed 1).
Neutral: Lobi: 405 (now only need to gring another mil for the jemmy),
8 ship weapons (but none as good as my current Mk xi - on the exchange soon).
Didnt need: 19 doff packs: lots of whites and greens, only three blues in the lot of them(gave all to a L7 character).
7 patrol escorts,
7 purple ground weapons.
Worthless junk: 76 dilithium claims,
and some other stuff that went straight in the recycler.
Back in a couple of months (with another mil),
Not the best return for a million dilithium.
I find this ... anomalous.
I did a 40-box run yesterday. I don't remember much but I remember I had 10 lobi when I started and 255 when I ended. In a 40 box run I got a full set of XII phased polarons , several purp doffs, and enough dilith claims to help finance the next 40 box run.
I'd estimate my average rate of Lobi to Box is 5 to 6, not 4. For you to get 405 is an ASTOUNDING run of bad luck, and it isn't borne out by any of the box results I'm getting.
It was worse than I was expecting, though it is possible it was 408, as I cant remember if I had 12 or 15 lobi before I started, I definitly have 423 now, and I am 990,000 dil poorer.
Yeah, Dil claims are basically free dil. And they come in multipacks. Peeps complain about them because you can only use one a day. Thus the people who opened a giant stack of boxes on one char will have enough to last for months.
Except that they are sold on the concept of winning one of the rewards being the point of buying them, not for lobi crystals. That should then be a red flag
I would agree with this statement if not for the fact that inevitably there is a Lobi store in effect. Hence, purchasing the lock box for anything more than the lobi itself is really just a bonus as the products in the Lobi store are themselves in many ways superior to the random drop. For example, the Temporal Destroyer VS the Wells. Cryptic is successfully ensuring that no matter what, if it is a ship that you want then eventually a ship is what you will get.
The rest of stuff can be turned into EC or Zen. Another bonus?! (Depending of your perspective I suppose);)
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
Thats proof enough for me, and i'm saying that as a programmer that works with more random number generators than I care to think about. I'm well aware of how to skew them, as you put it. And frankly you just described an effort at hard coding them to be rigged.
1. While the anecdotal evidence and your experience counts as a good reason to assume its been programmed to pay out on the low side, its still not empirical evidence.
2. They never claimed "a chicken in every pot" as far as the boxes go. "Rigged" implies deceit/ cheating with intent to have no winners. You always win something in these boxes.
I don't want to sound like one of those 1% douchebags, but this is very much something that falls into the "Personal Responsibility" category and the only person players should be angry with over not getting hundreds of Lobi and ships are themselves.
Yeah, Dil claims are basically free dil
Sixty seconds of work. Five thousand dilithium. The only people complaining about this are "Me want all nao!" people. Silly.
it'd be interesting to know if anyone has ever lucked out first time and got a dreadnought carrier out of their first ever box..
I haven't, but while opening CO lockboxes to sell the contents and earn enough to buy a grav bike, I got a good tank on box 6, and the exact grav bike I wanted on box 14. And then got rich off the sales of the tank and all the junk.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Chance is chance, everything is random. You can open 1000's of lock boxes and only receive DOFF's packs, while another guy has a shiny new jemmy on his first try.
There should be some form of buffer that prevents opening too many boxes without rewards - say, if you opened a maximum of 200 boxes, you are automatically rewarded the ship.
I know a fleet-mate of mine who opened 301 boxes - the 301st box gave him the JHEC.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
There should be some form of buffer that prevents opening too many boxes without rewards - say, if you opened a maximum of 200 boxes, you are automatically rewarded the ship.
I know a fleet-mate of mine who opened 301 boxes - the 301st box gave him the JHEC.
Hmmmm.. that would be interesting but would be harder to code I think (also chance for bug that people will get ship every X boxes)
So loot should be
Common - mining certs and Lobi
uncommon - DoFF/BoFF
rare - weapons, rare ships
super rare - ships (like carriers and escort carriers etc etc)
So lets say super rare is 1% (I don't know the number so I'm making it up)
each box you open increase the chance of super rare by 0.05% upto 50% (or whatever percentage cryptic wants) ONCE you get a ship, it drops back to 1%
This will increase people buying keys to unlock because the chance of getting ship increase for each box you open.
I get keys when I can, off of the Exchange, and almost every time, I'm selling off what I got in the box to fund the next key. Then I sell off whatever I get after a few runs for fleet marks. I'm shooting for something, but I need a lot of Lobi to get it.
Lane Bjorn Jorgensson, Captain, ISS Voltaire
Here's a map to show how much they've screwed up the game map.
Got the ship:
163 Lockboxes, total cost 1,6342,500 Dilithium.
Most notable thing, first 100 boxes averaged just over 4 lobi per box, last 63 averaged just over 6.
Considering that I could have got the Andorian Escort box set three times over for that price, I dont think I will do this again. But then, you have to try things once, to find out.
Named the ship 1.6MD, you may see me out there (particularly around the dilithium asteroid (for the next 3 1/2 months that is))!
Got the ship:
163 Lockboxes, total cost 1,6342,500 Dilithium.
Most notable thing, first 100 boxes averaged just over 4 lobi per box, last 63 averaged just over 6.
Considering that I could have got the Andorian Escort box set three times over for that price, I dont think I will do this again. But then, you have to try things once, to find out.
Named the ship 1.6MD, you may see me out there (particularly around the dilithium asteroid (for the next 3 1/2 months that is))!
lol
well so far i think im the saddest of us bunch
i opened 180 boxes !!! on this ship alone...opened numerous other * bout 80 mil worth on the dkora ship back then
on both accounts i got Zero box ship..yea ..nada..zilch..
after spending so much zen/dili ..i am done with boxes
this is really something that pisses me off....lucky i spread the opening among my toons ..atleast i got some mining rights and lobi ..but zen wise..jesus...
i admit my luck suks in those matters but so many boxes to get nothing..nope..not opening them no more
Lock-boxes are for suckers or people w/ massive amounts of disposable income who know they're probably not gonna get anything for their 'investment'.
Now I'll admit I fall under neither group (sucker or rich person), but every new lockbox I buy one 10-pack of keys when they are on discount in the C-store and never get anything good. I'll try my luck to a point, but I'm not going to toss a ton of good money at a 0.00001% chance at something I can get for 75M EC on the Exchange a couple weeks later.
Dom lockboxes... my best thing was 6 Rich Dil mining tickets.
Probably spent about $20 total on boxes, it already felt like too much. But the Dominion ones are nice because they have the not-hugely-rare mining claims that at least help you recoup your losses after a set of snake eyes. I've saved a pile, if I ever crack boxes again it'll probably be these.
Comments
The reason being is that I saw someone getting 2 lockbox ships in 2 days
Now, I am short of 28 lobi crystals to upgrade my Jem'Hadar ground equipment set. I hope I could get the JH Escort Carrier.
This is not entirely accurate. You should only consider the "recovery" as what extra dilith he would make OVER what he could make in the same amount of time doing the typical things in game (investigates, conduit elite, etc.) Still a benefit but not to the degree you suggest.
STO Resources: <Ship Comparison - All Tiers + Small Craft + Hangar Pets> <Damage Resistance>
<R&D + Upgrade Costs> <Duty Officer Finder> <Suliban Doff Reqs> <Fleet Costs> <Rep Costs>
<Keybind Tour the Galaxy> <Fleet / Armada Management> <Currency Exchange> <Other STO Links>
I would guess it's either true RNG luck or hehad a stack ofkeys and spammed opening them hoping for a fortuitous server glitch.
I opened.. 145 lock boxes, ( between 3 toons )
1350+ Lobi ( got the ground set upgrade, space set upgrade,dom carrier & 2x assault mini guns )
1 Dominion ship ( got in the first 40 )
7 mirror carriers ( all sold for 850k each )
Too many dilithium tickets to count.. about 150+
25 polaron weapons, 10 ground.. Sold the space weapons making 50+ mil ( 2 turrets alone were 13mil each )
15-18 purple dominion officers
about 40-50 doff packs, usually sell for 80k-125k each depending on when you sell, or sell them individually.
Now, I think the last lockbox had much better prizes, if the dilithium tickets werent character bound they would be friggin great.
I also do think the drop rate for the ship is poo. But some of us get luckier than others, it is the lotto after all! Not everyone can win.
From the characters point of view it is a bit like a prison sentence.
At least it is not Rura Penthe!
Adding to my previous post, I did receive 50 Lobi in one dominion box the other day! A once off too I might add for me anyways. The Ferengi LB are apparently the most generous giving up to 20 at a time. The rest are between 4 and 10 I think.
In another note, there is some shady little Ferengi in the right hand corner by the window just across from the water fountain by Admiral Quinn's office in Earth Spacedock GIVING AWAY lockboxes and Keys!!!!
He caught my eye yesterday as I ran past. I approached out of curiosity and he sent me to Drozana Station. The minute you beam into the station there is a crate directly ahead of you glowing. If you open it you will complete the mission he sent you on and get two boxes and two keys. Inside you get only 1 item (either 1 lobi or special ship/ground equipment) as oppose to the usual 2 items (lobi & special equipment). The keys you get from him do NOT open regular lock boxes either unfortunately.
In truth, if people are really hard up about getting stuff off of the lobi store but do not want to waste their time on lock boxes I recommend you contact people like me. I'll happily buy the stuff for you and sell them for EC.
Damn, you've bought alot of keys. :eek:
Glad someone has the disposable income to find out this stuff.
My character Tsin'xing
Actually, most of those came from the exchange. There's no way I'm paying that much $$$ for lockbox keys!
STO Resources: <Ship Comparison - All Tiers + Small Craft + Hangar Pets> <Damage Resistance>
<R&D + Upgrade Costs> <Duty Officer Finder> <Suliban Doff Reqs> <Fleet Costs> <Rep Costs>
<Keybind Tour the Galaxy> <Fleet / Armada Management> <Currency Exchange> <Other STO Links>
Thats proof enough for me, and i'm saying that as a programmer that works with more random number generators than I care to think about. I'm well aware of how to skew them, as you put it. And frankly you just described an effort at hard coding them to be rigged.
That would be a blatant scam and very illegal. Cryptic would have alot of explaining to do if anyone got it in their head to make an issue of it. It would be very easy to argue that they were exploiting people intentionally and secretly by doing such a thing. They aren't that stupid
Except that they are sold on the concept of winning one of the rewards being the point of buying them, not for lobi crystals. That should then be a red flag
For the record, there is no such thing as luck or true randomness in a 'random' generator based reward system. Any programmer will tell you that
If i don't get the escort carrier, the i will buy keys an sell them in the exchange until i can buy it from the exchange
In every place,
The deeds of men remain the same..."
I find this ... anomalous.
I did a 40-box run yesterday. I don't remember much but I remember I had 10 lobi when I started and 255 when I ended. In a 40 box run I got a full set of XII phased polarons , several purp doffs, and enough dilith claims to help finance the next 40 box run.
I'd estimate my average rate of Lobi to Box is 5 to 6, not 4. For you to get 405 is an ASTOUNDING run of bad luck, and it isn't borne out by any of the box results I'm getting.
You start with 100zen. Buy a key, get either 10-pack or 6-pack. 10 pack is 50,000 dil -> 500zen. 6-pack is 30,000 dil -> 300 zen.
Now you can buy 5 or 3 more keys.
Every dilithium claims essentially multiplies to more keys.
Or course you can not overdue it, because you have a buffer of 10 or 6 days. But opening a box for a claim pack every 6 or 10 days sounds profitable.
My character Tsin'xing
I would agree with this statement if not for the fact that inevitably there is a Lobi store in effect. Hence, purchasing the lock box for anything more than the lobi itself is really just a bonus as the products in the Lobi store are themselves in many ways superior to the random drop. For example, the Temporal Destroyer VS the Wells. Cryptic is successfully ensuring that no matter what, if it is a ship that you want then eventually a ship is what you will get.
The rest of stuff can be turned into EC or Zen. Another bonus?! (Depending of your perspective I suppose);)
1. While the anecdotal evidence and your experience counts as a good reason to assume its been programmed to pay out on the low side, its still not empirical evidence.
2. They never claimed "a chicken in every pot" as far as the boxes go. "Rigged" implies deceit/ cheating with intent to have no winners. You always win something in these boxes.
I don't want to sound like one of those 1% douchebags, but this is very much something that falls into the "Personal Responsibility" category and the only person players should be angry with over not getting hundreds of Lobi and ships are themselves.
Sixty seconds of work. Five thousand dilithium. The only people complaining about this are "Me want all nao!" people. Silly.
I haven't, but while opening CO lockboxes to sell the contents and earn enough to buy a grav bike, I got a good tank on box 6, and the exact grav bike I wanted on box 14. And then got rich off the sales of the tank and all the junk.
it DOESN'T mean that if you open 100 boxes that you WILL get the ship. (That is gambler's mentality or playing the odds)
since it advertise who got what, I did see someone got lucky and gotten TWO ships in the span of 1 minute. It is pure luck of the RNG.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
I know a fleet-mate of mine who opened 301 boxes - the 301st box gave him the JHEC.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Hmmmm.. that would be interesting but would be harder to code I think (also chance for bug that people will get ship every X boxes)
So loot should be
Common - mining certs and Lobi
uncommon - DoFF/BoFF
rare - weapons, rare ships
super rare - ships (like carriers and escort carriers etc etc)
So lets say super rare is 1% (I don't know the number so I'm making it up)
each box you open increase the chance of super rare by 0.05% upto 50% (or whatever percentage cryptic wants) ONCE you get a ship, it drops back to 1%
This will increase people buying keys to unlock because the chance of getting ship increase for each box you open.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Here's a map to show how much they've screwed up the game map.
163 Lockboxes, total cost 1,6342,500 Dilithium.
Most notable thing, first 100 boxes averaged just over 4 lobi per box, last 63 averaged just over 6.
Considering that I could have got the Andorian Escort box set three times over for that price, I dont think I will do this again. But then, you have to try things once, to find out.
Named the ship 1.6MD, you may see me out there (particularly around the dilithium asteroid (for the next 3 1/2 months that is))!
lol
well so far i think im the saddest of us bunch
i opened 180 boxes !!! on this ship alone...opened numerous other * bout 80 mil worth on the dkora ship back then
on both accounts i got Zero box ship..yea ..nada..zilch..
after spending so much zen/dili ..i am done with boxes
this is really something that pisses me off....lucky i spread the opening among my toons ..atleast i got some mining rights and lobi ..but zen wise..jesus...
i admit my luck suks in those matters but so many boxes to get nothing..nope..not opening them no more
Lock-boxes are for suckers or people w/ massive amounts of disposable income who know they're probably not gonna get anything for their 'investment'.
Now I'll admit I fall under neither group (sucker or rich person), but every new lockbox I buy one 10-pack of keys when they are on discount in the C-store and never get anything good. I'll try my luck to a point, but I'm not going to toss a ton of good money at a 0.00001% chance at something I can get for 75M EC on the Exchange a couple weeks later.
Dom lockboxes... my best thing was 6 Rich Dil mining tickets.