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gstamo01
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I've spent hours reading Foundry Discussion & Feedback and the one thing I have learned is that there is a whole lot of hubris going around.
There are always two sides to every argument and both parties typically believe that they are on the side that is just.
The Foundry was created as a means for players to create their own missions and to help provide more content to STO while keeping the player base involved.
That said, both sides are essentially correct.
Grinders and Story Arc Foundry missions are player created and player driven. They both clearly have a reason to exist, even the ones that border on exploitation, else nobody would play them yes?
I completely understand that many Foundry authors feel denied praise and exposure for taking months to create well rounded missions. However, the world is full of authors just like them who constantly get screwed over by another quick and flashy author that seeks to make their own name in filling a void in the same market.
Does this mean that those story driven authors have no right to complain? No.
Does this mean that those grinder authors have no right to defend? Again, No.
Both mission styles are player created and player driven. The depth of the story or the lack their of, is moot. It's a players market.
Those seeking to punish one to lift the other appear to be clouded in their own hubris.
So, what things can be done to constructively resolve this situation?
I ask that you put aside your differences, take two steps back and really look at what caused the problem. What are the possible solutions, if any, that the devs could take to resolve it fairly.
This is what devs are looking for. An unbiased answer to the problems with the Foundry, what the player base wants from it and what can realistically be done without effecting the over all game as a whole.
There are always two sides to every argument and both parties typically believe that they are on the side that is just.
The Foundry was created as a means for players to create their own missions and to help provide more content to STO while keeping the player base involved.
That said, both sides are essentially correct.
Grinders and Story Arc Foundry missions are player created and player driven. They both clearly have a reason to exist, even the ones that border on exploitation, else nobody would play them yes?
I completely understand that many Foundry authors feel denied praise and exposure for taking months to create well rounded missions. However, the world is full of authors just like them who constantly get screwed over by another quick and flashy author that seeks to make their own name in filling a void in the same market.
Does this mean that those story driven authors have no right to complain? No.
Does this mean that those grinder authors have no right to defend? Again, No.
Both mission styles are player created and player driven. The depth of the story or the lack their of, is moot. It's a players market.
Those seeking to punish one to lift the other appear to be clouded in their own hubris.
So, what things can be done to constructively resolve this situation?
I ask that you put aside your differences, take two steps back and really look at what caused the problem. What are the possible solutions, if any, that the devs could take to resolve it fairly.
This is what devs are looking for. An unbiased answer to the problems with the Foundry, what the player base wants from it and what can realistically be done without effecting the over all game as a whole.
You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online! 
Post edited by gstamo01 on
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"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Speaking of Foundry War, that might make for a good mission title. Maybe to be concluded by the Treaty of Los Gatos...
What the heck are new players supposed to think seeing this?
Not every opinion is valid. Here, Dara O'Briain will make it clear for you.
Never heard of this guy before, he's awesome! Thanks!
If that mission did not exists all these foundry changes that are being made, the rating war that is pointless, would never have ever come to light. Yes grinders would still exists and people would still play them but there wouldn't be this false feeling that it has to be as short as possible to get that dilithium faster.
Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration is the new players and where they came from. As we all should be aware of now CoH is no more currently, and alot of players are coming from that game to this one, or going to CO. Now CoH had a foundry-like mission creator as well and had a many a story and grinder missions in them. Both were played for various reasons, but the most played were the grinders. Usually kill lots of baddies missions. Now these players are coming here and see that we have a player made mission system as well and are going "Neat! Lets run some grind missions!"
I think I've floated off topic kinda. In essence I'm saying the only reason for any of the "Anti-Grinder" foundry updates is that one IOR mission. So as long as its around this war of the foundry will always remain.
He's great. Lot's of his comedy on YouTube.
grind mission and story missions are two totally different types of missions, that are rated for different criteria by the person playing them, but use the same rating system and get thrown together.
i dont have an issue with grind missions, and i play them myself as they serve a purpose, but what i think most people want is to be able to find the type of mission they want easily. i said in the other thread, create a system that lets an author pick if its a grind mission or a story mission and have them be sent into different tabs. people can then find what they want and can ignore the ones they dont like.
as an author of story missions, i would be lying if i said it does not bother me to see a 5 minute mission outscore stuff i have spent weeks on. i dont think that grind missions should go or be banned as a result, but i just want them in a different location, so when i want to play a grind, i can easily find one, and pick the best without having to worry about a story, and when i want a story i can go play something that suits me.
at the moment throwing them all in together, in an already convoluted mess of missions is the true issue. this really is not as complicated as people are making it out. it does not need a club hammer taken to it, rewards dont need to be nuked, the foundry dismantled. it just needs a little common sense and some tweaks.
Thank you for the laugh.
Never heard of him before.
He's great.
As for the idea that "grinder" missions outscore "story" missions, this is, without a doubt, manifestly untrue...until now. If you looked at the "Top Rated" prior to to the outbreak of the Story vs. Grinder riots, nearly all of them were story missions. People grinding and people making grinders don't truly care about ratings: Grinders have intrinsic value independent of subjective appeal.
Now, of course, certain vocal elements have touched off a hate-rating war which has negatively impacted scores of nearly all Spotlight missions and created nothing more than anger and resentment. This is going to do nothing to enhance your audience.
j/k... mostly.
An in-game "I survived the Foundry Wars" T-shirt might be fun.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
As long as I get to do rehab at Vic's Lounge...:cool:
EDIT: Let's please continue the discussion in this thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=537351 -- I'd like to keep everything in one place so that feedback on this subject is easy to find for those that I pass it along to. Thanks for understanding. -Brandon