I bought a LTS on the day they were released. Back during your "Golden Era" of subscription based game play they released the Excelsior. I wanted that ship and in order for me to get it, I had to spend money on C-Points to be able to buy it. The fact I has a subscription meant nothing, I still had to pay extra to get the ship.
Now fast forward to F2P and the release of the Armitage, another ship I wanted. Only this time I was able to use my Stipend and convert Dilithium to get the ship. That's right, those Evil Geniuses at Cryptic allowed me to get a ship without spending any of my own money (Damn their money grabbing ways).
So I ask you. Which of those 2 scenarios looks more like I was forced to spend money? (Okay I know "technically" I didn't have to spend money in either one, as the purchase of the ships was not necessary to play STO).
I am not some sheep or Cryptic apologist. I, like many others, can see the game for what it is - Fun but flawed. However I do not subscribe (no pun intended) to your Rose-tinted view that things were so much better under the subcription model.
I think as far as free to play goes this is one of the better ones. But I counter that by the fact I really don't like the free 2 play model at all for any game because it ruins the immersion and takes away the level playing field. I mean this is a game set in a world which was supposed to not have currency? Yet the whole game revolves around it.
I also don't think the subscription model is good enough US15 a month and all you get are some vet rewards and $5 worth of currency?
So I am playing and enjoying the game. But I wish it was a sub game with a level playing field and no mass grind or pay to win. I would sub but I don't think the rewards are worth it. I'd rather buy $15 currency than spend $15 to sub for a month. because even when I sub the stores and lock boxes are still going to be there I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who sub and still spend extra on more ZEN. I guess that's the scenario where PW make bank and it more than makes up for the f2p only players.
F2P works but is it great? I don't think there are any truly great f2p MMO's EVE is best but it's not the classic F2P model. It just has a model where you can choose to grind in game currency to pay for game time or spend money to buy in game currency and it actually works well. I could just sub and play as I want and the F2P or pay extra model really didn't affect me.
I think the best game model is that of Guild Wars, which Secret world kinda now has too not that I've tried it. Buy the box, play the game for free. Pay for expansion packs, that are actually worth it. just needs a free trial for good measure so you know if you like the game before you have to buy it. I always regret spending what was it around US$70 on the WOW box and I hated the game and could not even get half way through the first month because of the TRIBBLE kiddy cartoon graphics and gameplay.
one think I wont do is come here and mock a game that I've got many hours of playtime and some enjoyment out of and haven't spent a penny on.
If you want to see a HORRID F2P model, again, go look at SWTOR. Then weep and be glad for STO.
If you want a proper F2P model that isn't trash like this one or SWTOR.
Go to DDO.
Honestly you know what the real problem is with this game when it comes to pay/time structure, those with time can grind themselves to death are fine, but people like me who are time poor and not even that cash rich have no avenue for advancement at all.
If you want a proper F2P model that isn't trash like this one or SWTOR.
Go to DDO.
Honestly you know what the real problem is with this game when it comes to pay/time structure, those with time can grind themselves to death are fine, but people like me who are time poor and not even that cash rich have no avenue for advancement at all.
I dont think that's true, it just means that you have to be smart efficient and accept the fact that it will take more time.
This game has continually gone to the dogs since Free 2 Play was released. The problem is now, pretty much EVERYTHING in the game requires money if you want to be a decent player and Cryptic has taken a road of blatant exploitation of their player base. This has unfortunately become the literal translation of a Chinese sweatshop in which you grind and grind to get little reward that has really any value.
So I think Cryptic should abandon the Free 2 Play model and go back to the Subscription Model which they had when this game came out. Sure, there were problems back then too but at least they developed some new content without the incessant need to get greedy and try to make the player, even subscribed players like myself now, pay for everything.
Its unfortunate that such a game like this has gone the way it has, however if people stopped buying zen and focused on only the free features, then this game would rapidly change back to the subscription base and free stuff that we used to have because we were PAYING for the game back then.
This game could easily survive on subscriptions alone, even with the amount of lifetimers but Cryptic want their new coffee machine or water cooler so they do not actually want to change back. Why change if the sheep are buying into it?
Aside from the loss of the majority of the player base, your initial statement is just wrong. You can get everything you want ingame, without purchasing zen with real money. Fleet ships, fleet weapons, zen-store ships, everything.
Everything costs money and yet it doesn't at the same time.
everything can be earned by just playing the game. the dilithium exchange was at about 86 at one point. dilithium is getting easier to earn, half the stuff is totally optional and you dont need any of the c-store ships and items to play the game or be successful. you only need these items if you want these items, or perhaps if you are a real hardcore pvper.
free to play has brought more players in, allowed them to staff up and content is only going to arrive faster and faster as time goes on and it will be free. if you want to spend money then its only because you want to and not because you need to.
aside from my LT I got when it was on special at launch, I have never felt the 'need' to spend money, but some one had to for me to get some of the things I wanted and it must have been worth it to them or eles why would they spend the money?
The Jem Dread I got all on EC, from selling lockboxes oddly enough, and I never had to pay a dime for it.
Is it better as a F2P? That is debatable, for sure Cryptic seems healthier for it.
Also the last two games I have played (In recent months) were Secret World and TOR, both of which started off as sub based games and dropped to f2p models. Currently only games I can think of that can still really get away with Pay monthlies is WoW and E.V.E online, one is overbloated with people and the other one, well no one can offer quite the same system they can.
Yes but that 45% of players that do quit would be a lost cause to the 55% who stay and keep paying for the game to be properly developed and not botched because they need to constantly release stuff like lockboxes to keep profits up.
I fail to see how a game like this can sustain itself financially and still be a balanced and fun experience?
Here's a fun fact sparky, the game is actually PROFITABLE as a F2P game. As pure subscription? Not so much.
They're not going back. Just close this thread as it's only going to lead to forum rule violations.
"Oh, looky here at this cool and useful mission reward....oh, but you can't have it because YOU'RE NOT A SUBSCRIBER, NOOB!!"
Or the fact that there's an entire TIER of gear you can't equip unless you pay for the authorization to use it....or subscribe.
Yeah, I don't see that in STO.
Not to mention that you can only do 3 space missions a week as a F2Per. Oh right, you can't even sprint till you get your character to a certain lvl as a F2Per. Or send mail. Or trade. Or do lots of other things.
So yeah.... The more I look for a good F2P MMO, the more I like STO.
"Correction. Humans have rules in war. Rules that make victory a little harder to achieve, in my opinion."
Elim Garak
I am not too happy about the whole gambling aspect, but this game was dying before F2P. Even though a lot of that was Atari running it into the ground, I suspect that if it continued with a subscription model, it would never have the life or development revenue that it has today.
STO still has problems, but it is by far the best Star Trek game ever produced and it is constantly being developed.
I am not too happy about the whole gambling aspect, but this game was dying before F2P. Even though a lot of that was Atari running it into the ground, I suspect that if it continued with a subscription model, it would never have the life or development revenue that it has today.
STO still has problems, but it is by far the best Star Trek game ever produced and it is constantly being developed.
No offense but that is complete bull, I will list the better Star Trek games right here...
- Star Trek: Bridge Commander
- Starfleet Command Series
- Star Trek: Armada
- Star Trek: Elite Force 1
All of these games were vastly superior to STO because they were developed by people who actually cared about Star Trek and wanted to make a fun experience, not whoever could make the most money.
STO could be vastly improved by taking aspects from all these games
Bridge Combat - Bridge Commander
Space Combet and Ship Customisation - Starfleet Command
Fleet Support and Logistical Support - Star Trek: Armada
Ground Combat - Elite Force
Thats a better Star Trek game right there... and that only took 5 minutes to work out.
No offense but that is complete bull, I will list the better Star Trek games right here...
- Star Trek: Bridge Commander
- Starfleet Command Series
- Star Trek: Armada
- Star Trek: Elite Force 1
All of these games were vastly superior to STO because they were developed by people who actually cared about Star Trek and wanted to make a fun experience, not whoever could make the most money.
STO could be vastly improved by taking aspects from all these games
Bridge Combat - Bridge Commander
Space Combet and Ship Customisation - Starfleet Command
Fleet Support and Logistical Support - Star Trek: Armada
Ground Combat - Elite Force
Thats a better Star Trek game right there... and that only took 5 minutes to work out.
No offense, but that is a subjective judgement on my part which cannot be proved correct or incorrect. I respect that you have a different opinion; however, I disagree.
I played several of those games and they were quite well-made. However, they offered nowhere near the depth of content that this game offers, which is why I conclude this game, despite its flaws, is by far the best Star Trek video game ever created.
No offense, but that is a subjective judgement on my part which cannot be proved correct or incorrect. I respect that you have a different opinion; however, I disagree.
I played several of those games and they were quite well-made. However, they offered nowhere near the depth of content that this game offers, which is why I conclude this game, despite its flaws, is by far the best Star Trek video game ever created.
I'm sorry but I had to smirk when you mentioned "depth" in this game. Please refer me to what kind of depth you mean because its certainly not in the gameplay or the story? So what do you mean by "depth" exactly.
Plus, its a bit silly to say the Bridge Commander lacked "depth" considering the whole game was written by a renowned Star Trek writer. If you do not believe me, look it up. I do not see any renowned Star Trek writers queuing up to write for Star Trek: Online.
STO has one of the gentlest freemium models ever. And good for PWE and Cryptic for making it work!
I don't mind buying ships or respecs or whatnot from the Zen store, though I do feel dirty paying money for lockbox keys - but that's just me. I appreciate where Cryptic is coming from, they have to ensure that non-faction-canon ships aren't omnipresent, but I would like to be able to pay for some of those ships straight-up. And sure, the lockboxes were irritating at first, when their drop rate was like a 50% chance on killing anything (even shooting down borg torps, lol!) but that's been fixed, and it's quite pleasant.
I'm sorry but I had to smirk when you mentioned "depth" in this game. Please refer me to what kind of depth you mean because its certainly not in the gameplay or the story? So what do you mean by "depth" exactly.
Plus, its a bit silly to say the Bridge Commander lacked "depth" considering the whole game was written by a renowned Star Trek writer. If you do not believe me, look it up. I do not see any renowned Star Trek writers queuing up to write for Star Trek: Online.
I mean exactly what I wrote. The amount of content in any other Star Trek game pales compared to STO.
It would take many times longer to play through all the Cryptic designed missions and scenarios than any other game. And then there is the Foundry, with its massive database.
Most other Star Trek games have no more than 20 hours of unique content. A few might have double that. STO literally has thousands of hours and it is constantly expanding thanks to continued development and continued foundry mission creation.
Compare the number of missions you can run, the amount of group content (such as STFs and PvP), the number of planets you can visit, the number of canon locations, canon ships, et cetera.
The amount of content STO has is many orders of magnitude more than any other Star Trek game.
It's funny to see people praising solo games, which have a very short playability time. Once you're done you're done. With STO you can have fun for months.
Anyway. Without the F2P this game would be dead now. I have a friend who plays since beta and he told me that prior to season 5 and the F2P conversion, you could cross sectors and beam aboard stations without seeing anyone. The game also had very little content. Oh, you had ships for free but nothing to do with them. Now you have content (like it or not, it's not the topic), of course you have to pay for your ships or to farm for them at some point but at least you can choose how much you want to pay and how much you want to farm.
I would keep the F2P option, but make subscription worthwhile. Right now its simply not, when the best ships are won in lotery and the "normal" ships are subpar.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I would keep the F2P option, but make subscription worthwhile. Right now its simply not, when the best ships are won in lotery and the "normal" ships are subpar.
Dalnar has it right, as a monthly subscriber I don't feel the rewards for my monthly subs are suitable, if I went free to play I could purchase more Zen with what I normally pay a month in subscriptions than i receive as a stipend where the sense in that, Increase the monthly Stipend an Increase the amount of Dilith a Gold & Lifetime member can refine a day!
I like the free to play model, as it makes you work hard for your gain...However, some things are not very worth while for the work money invloved.
Some things I feel are next to impossible to earn however, just by playing the game day in and out for a mouth I bet I still can not get a 2.5k zen ship... This is VERY annoying to me, so this brings me to the actual problem. The problem is not the price of the ship, its the problem of how much it is in real life, ?15-20 for a ship....Im sorry but for in game content that is ALOT, you can buy the whole of the DLC for Fallout:NV for that which add something more to the game itself.
What do you get with ?20 on STO, aside from one of the best ships in the game..does it really help you get your goals every time you fly it? not really does it really add anything extra to the game...No..
So you see, I would not get my money for just a in game ship. I would rather work for it in a realistic time scale, even if it takes a few weeks of a few hour sessions to get it. Put it like this you will still need about 100k dl to even come close to 2.5k zen and that will take 2 months to get.
Last of my point, yes maybe for a subscriber you are short changed. But thats not the only thing one is short changed on for what they really get.
Whose naivety? STO really is one of the better Free to Play MMOs around. The great thing is that one is not forced to play. I get the feeling some people hang around complaining because bitterness has become their best friend, and can't do without it. Seriously, if it's so bad one feels that one must spew nothing but bile, it is time for that person to leave.
I personally hope when Neverwinter shows its model can succeed, they come back and dump subs entirely over here. Just let people unlock things alacarte and be done with it.
Eliminate subs!
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
I seriously doubt STO or CO will dump subs entirely due to lifetime subscriptions. IMO, it is the reason why being a subscriber hardly gives anything of use. PWE wants people to be F2P, but lifers exist so they have to give lifers something. If STO did not have lifetime subscriptions, then everyone would be F2P.
Comments
If you want to see a HORRID F2P model, again, go look at SWTOR. Then weep and be glad for STO.
Elim Garak
I bought a LTS on the day they were released. Back during your "Golden Era" of subscription based game play they released the Excelsior. I wanted that ship and in order for me to get it, I had to spend money on C-Points to be able to buy it. The fact I has a subscription meant nothing, I still had to pay extra to get the ship.
Now fast forward to F2P and the release of the Armitage, another ship I wanted. Only this time I was able to use my Stipend and convert Dilithium to get the ship. That's right, those Evil Geniuses at Cryptic allowed me to get a ship without spending any of my own money (Damn their money grabbing ways).
So I ask you. Which of those 2 scenarios looks more like I was forced to spend money? (Okay I know "technically" I didn't have to spend money in either one, as the purchase of the ships was not necessary to play STO).
I am not some sheep or Cryptic apologist. I, like many others, can see the game for what it is - Fun but flawed. However I do not subscribe (no pun intended) to your Rose-tinted view that things were so much better under the subcription model.
I also don't think the subscription model is good enough US15 a month and all you get are some vet rewards and $5 worth of currency?
So I am playing and enjoying the game. But I wish it was a sub game with a level playing field and no mass grind or pay to win. I would sub but I don't think the rewards are worth it. I'd rather buy $15 currency than spend $15 to sub for a month. because even when I sub the stores and lock boxes are still going to be there I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who sub and still spend extra on more ZEN. I guess that's the scenario where PW make bank and it more than makes up for the f2p only players.
F2P works but is it great? I don't think there are any truly great f2p MMO's EVE is best but it's not the classic F2P model. It just has a model where you can choose to grind in game currency to pay for game time or spend money to buy in game currency and it actually works well. I could just sub and play as I want and the F2P or pay extra model really didn't affect me.
I think the best game model is that of Guild Wars, which Secret world kinda now has too not that I've tried it. Buy the box, play the game for free. Pay for expansion packs, that are actually worth it. just needs a free trial for good measure so you know if you like the game before you have to buy it. I always regret spending what was it around US$70 on the WOW box and I hated the game and could not even get half way through the first month because of the TRIBBLE kiddy cartoon graphics and gameplay.
one think I wont do is come here and mock a game that I've got many hours of playtime and some enjoyment out of and haven't spent a penny on.
If you want a proper F2P model that isn't trash like this one or SWTOR.
Go to DDO.
Honestly you know what the real problem is with this game when it comes to pay/time structure, those with time can grind themselves to death are fine, but people like me who are time poor and not even that cash rich have no avenue for advancement at all.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
I dont think that's true, it just means that you have to be smart efficient and accept the fact that it will take more time.
The solution to this is to stop playing a genre of game that by it's very design model is obviously not for you.
The flaw here isn't with the game.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
Aside from the loss of the majority of the player base, your initial statement is just wrong. You can get everything you want ingame, without purchasing zen with real money. Fleet ships, fleet weapons, zen-store ships, everything.
everything can be earned by just playing the game. the dilithium exchange was at about 86 at one point. dilithium is getting easier to earn, half the stuff is totally optional and you dont need any of the c-store ships and items to play the game or be successful. you only need these items if you want these items, or perhaps if you are a real hardcore pvper.
free to play has brought more players in, allowed them to staff up and content is only going to arrive faster and faster as time goes on and it will be free. if you want to spend money then its only because you want to and not because you need to.
The Jem Dread I got all on EC, from selling lockboxes oddly enough, and I never had to pay a dime for it.
Is it better as a F2P? That is debatable, for sure Cryptic seems healthier for it.
Also the last two games I have played (In recent months) were Secret World and TOR, both of which started off as sub based games and dropped to f2p models. Currently only games I can think of that can still really get away with Pay monthlies is WoW and E.V.E online, one is overbloated with people and the other one, well no one can offer quite the same system they can.
"Oh, looky here at this cool and useful mission reward....oh, but you can't have it because YOU'RE NOT A SUBSCRIBER, NOOB!!"
Or the fact that there's an entire TIER of gear you can't equip unless you pay for the authorization to use it....or subscribe.
Yeah, I don't see that in STO.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Here's a fun fact sparky, the game is actually PROFITABLE as a F2P game. As pure subscription? Not so much.
They're not going back. Just close this thread as it's only going to lead to forum rule violations.
Not to mention that you can only do 3 space missions a week as a F2Per. Oh right, you can't even sprint till you get your character to a certain lvl as a F2Per. Or send mail. Or trade. Or do lots of other things.
So yeah.... The more I look for a good F2P MMO, the more I like STO.
Elim Garak
STO still has problems, but it is by far the best Star Trek game ever produced and it is constantly being developed.
No offense but that is complete bull, I will list the better Star Trek games right here...
- Star Trek: Bridge Commander
- Starfleet Command Series
- Star Trek: Armada
- Star Trek: Elite Force 1
All of these games were vastly superior to STO because they were developed by people who actually cared about Star Trek and wanted to make a fun experience, not whoever could make the most money.
STO could be vastly improved by taking aspects from all these games
Bridge Combat - Bridge Commander
Space Combet and Ship Customisation - Starfleet Command
Fleet Support and Logistical Support - Star Trek: Armada
Ground Combat - Elite Force
Thats a better Star Trek game right there... and that only took 5 minutes to work out.
No offense, but that is a subjective judgement on my part which cannot be proved correct or incorrect. I respect that you have a different opinion; however, I disagree.
I played several of those games and they were quite well-made. However, they offered nowhere near the depth of content that this game offers, which is why I conclude this game, despite its flaws, is by far the best Star Trek video game ever created.
I'm sorry but I had to smirk when you mentioned "depth" in this game. Please refer me to what kind of depth you mean because its certainly not in the gameplay or the story? So what do you mean by "depth" exactly.
Plus, its a bit silly to say the Bridge Commander lacked "depth" considering the whole game was written by a renowned Star Trek writer. If you do not believe me, look it up. I do not see any renowned Star Trek writers queuing up to write for Star Trek: Online.
I don't mind buying ships or respecs or whatnot from the Zen store, though I do feel dirty paying money for lockbox keys - but that's just me. I appreciate where Cryptic is coming from, they have to ensure that non-faction-canon ships aren't omnipresent, but I would like to be able to pay for some of those ships straight-up. And sure, the lockboxes were irritating at first, when their drop rate was like a 50% chance on killing anything (even shooting down borg torps, lol!) but that's been fixed, and it's quite pleasant.
I mean exactly what I wrote. The amount of content in any other Star Trek game pales compared to STO.
It would take many times longer to play through all the Cryptic designed missions and scenarios than any other game. And then there is the Foundry, with its massive database.
Most other Star Trek games have no more than 20 hours of unique content. A few might have double that. STO literally has thousands of hours and it is constantly expanding thanks to continued development and continued foundry mission creation.
Compare the number of missions you can run, the amount of group content (such as STFs and PvP), the number of planets you can visit, the number of canon locations, canon ships, et cetera.
The amount of content STO has is many orders of magnitude more than any other Star Trek game.
Anyway. Without the F2P this game would be dead now. I have a friend who plays since beta and he told me that prior to season 5 and the F2P conversion, you could cross sectors and beam aboard stations without seeing anyone. The game also had very little content. Oh, you had ships for free but nothing to do with them. Now you have content (like it or not, it's not the topic), of course you have to pay for your ships or to farm for them at some point but at least you can choose how much you want to pay and how much you want to farm.
I think no other F2P game is that generous.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Dalnar has it right, as a monthly subscriber I don't feel the rewards for my monthly subs are suitable, if I went free to play I could purchase more Zen with what I normally pay a month in subscriptions than i receive as a stipend where the sense in that, Increase the monthly Stipend an Increase the amount of Dilith a Gold & Lifetime member can refine a day!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Some things I feel are next to impossible to earn however, just by playing the game day in and out for a mouth I bet I still can not get a 2.5k zen ship... This is VERY annoying to me, so this brings me to the actual problem. The problem is not the price of the ship, its the problem of how much it is in real life, ?15-20 for a ship....Im sorry but for in game content that is ALOT, you can buy the whole of the DLC for Fallout:NV for that which add something more to the game itself.
What do you get with ?20 on STO, aside from one of the best ships in the game..does it really help you get your goals every time you fly it? not really does it really add anything extra to the game...No..
So you see, I would not get my money for just a in game ship. I would rather work for it in a realistic time scale, even if it takes a few weeks of a few hour sessions to get it. Put it like this you will still need about 100k dl to even come close to 2.5k zen and that will take 2 months to get.
Last of my point, yes maybe for a subscriber you are short changed. But thats not the only thing one is short changed on for what they really get.
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Eliminate subs!