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What is the intended function of combat engines in current endgame?
ussultimatum
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Here's a quote from DDIS to start the conversation:
Pretty much what he said.
So why do combat engines still exist, and is the legacy combat / impulse / hyper-impulse engine concept still considered to provide value to the game?
You might be able to argue there is a place still for Impulse Engines, but as far as Combat Engines are concerned you would need to go out of your way to gimp your skill choices to end up with low enough power where these would be useful.
This issue with combat engines unfortunately means that several sets, such as the Jem Hadar set, have engines that unfortunately do not make much sense in the current game.
My curiosity is if the dev team feels that there is room for improvement (even if it's a low priority item, which it is), or if combat engines are fine as is, and why.
dontdrunkimshoot wrote: »make the combat engine a hyper engine!
space equipment sets are ruined by the fact that they have combat engines in them, at end game every well set up ship has base engine energy beyond a combat engines ideal range.
combat engines as a whole need a rework or replacement!
Pretty much what he said.
So why do combat engines still exist, and is the legacy combat / impulse / hyper-impulse engine concept still considered to provide value to the game?
You might be able to argue there is a place still for Impulse Engines, but as far as Combat Engines are concerned you would need to go out of your way to gimp your skill choices to end up with low enough power where these would be useful.
This issue with combat engines unfortunately means that several sets, such as the Jem Hadar set, have engines that unfortunately do not make much sense in the current game.
My curiosity is if the dev team feels that there is room for improvement (even if it's a low priority item, which it is), or if combat engines are fine as is, and why.
Post edited by ussultimatum on
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Comments
Common sense would say that "hey combat helps with combat" but that comparatively seems dubious at best.
Basically... it's so you can use that power for better things. "Bonus Engine power if engine power is set below 40" is better than "Bonus Engine power if engine power is set above 60." It's more efficient to use combat impulse engines.
R.I.P
I only use standard and hyper-impulse engines because combat-impulse engines are out-runned by everything else!
Basically, the faster your ship has to move, the less viable combat impulse engines become since they have such a ridiculously low top speed when compared to other engine types. This makes them very bad for escorts since speed = defense rating = life / survivability.
Anyone using Combat Impulse engines has literally no prayer at chasing down and finishing off an opposing (good) player using hyper-impulse engines without some kind of movement debuff or secondary player help. Evasive Maneuvers allows for quick chases, but once EM expires, combat impulse engine users are left eating the opposing player's impulse wash...
If your main tactic is running away and not helping your team, then yes, it's the perfect engine for you. But, if you're smart enough to stay and fight, maybe take someone with you, you don't NEED the extra speed. Also... NPCs don't run away, and fact is... most sets in this game are geared toward PvE, and many players spec PRIMARILY for PvE. Using PvP as the best reason for an argument is fruitless until PvP is worth it again.
The above only considers team PVP. How does the phrase "Smart enough to stay and fight?" apply to fleet actions like SB24 and Gorn Mine Field when speed is the difference between 1st place Mk XI / XII purple drops vs. lowly greens?
Seriously, there's no need to be patronizing... this is strictly an engine type performance issue. If you're content with driving slow vehicles, then that's fine too. Frankly, I'll take a high performance sports car over a 4-cyclinder commuter any day.
First, I apologize. I didn't mean to come off as patronizing. However, that seems to happen a lot.
Second, speed isn't usually the issue in a Fleet Action. I've gotten first place when flying a CRUISER... specced to tank, no less. It's a matter of general combat effectiveness. And combat effectiveness is increased by putting more power into your weapons. If you've got an engine that GIVES you power for lowering your engine power setting, you can shift engine power down and weapon power up. Or you could use it for shield, or Aux if you're in a Science ship. Also, I can actually exceed Full Impulse in any ship with Evasive Maneuvers and an Engine Battery. Combine that with the fact that you can use Deuterium Surplus to extend the Evasive Maneuvers buff (pop one at the last second, you've got 7 seconds of more speed). So, you really don't NEED to set engine power high to, as we say in the American South, "sh*t'n'git." If you can afford to put power elsewhere, you have an advantage.
To use your own analogy... you may have a sports car to go faster, but my 4-cylinder commuter car happens to also have a GAU-8 Avenger anti-tank minigun mounted on the roof.
Thanks for that... many here never acknowledge the latter
I run a build that focuses on maxed warp core efficiency and warp core potential, but only a few points in the T4 and T5 subsystem bonus power abilities. However, the results are phenomenal since I can run 25 base impulse engine power on any engine type and still have max defense rating and max 100 base weapon power in an escort. While ship power management is usually a fine balancing act, this set-up seems to have no shortage of Shield nor Aux subsystem power, essentially negating the need for combat impulse engines without compromising top speed.
In SB24, I am able to reach Negh'Vars surrounded by BoP's and Vorcha's quickly to set up big GW chain explosions, then escape once shields get dangerously low. It is easy to locate and destroy Negh'var packs to maximize 1st place win chances, so getting to them quickly before other players is a big plus.
For Gorn Mine Field, the final Bortasque is the primary objective. Whoever delivers the most damage to it usually wins 1st place, so whoever can run to the Bortasque and DPS it down first usually has a big advantage over slower players.
I routinely take 1st place... 2nd on a bad run, and 3rd+ if I join mid-match.
My biggest complaint about Combat Impulse Engines are the huge diminishing returns -- the more energy is transferred to it, the less speed is gained from the previous lower power settings. I think Cryptic has to reduce this ratio to make combat impulse engines more competitive vs. standard and hyper-impulse.
They each serve a purpose, the fact that the mods some want don't come on an engine they want is just, well - tough. After all, I can't get a Resilient Shield with the capacity of the Honor Guard - bummer.
In my tank, no matter WHAT mission it is, I full-impulse in and pop B:FAW and Torp Spread III. The point is to pull all the aggro. Then, while my AoE-splosion goes on, I pop EPS transfer, wait a second or two, then pop Aux to Bat I. I have my engine power set to 25, but with that combo, it FREQUENTLY goes to about 120 (I run full Retro Borg, by the way). You might DPS down a lot of ships, but it seems healing is also a factor in your score, and that is the one thing I'm EPIC at. ETIII, RSPIII, MW, and my AoE attacks net me a TRIBBLE ton of points toward my placing. Engineering Team 3 ALONE is a 10k hull heal. Reverse Shield Polarity 3 is GOD MODE for 16 seconds, not to mention total overkill (I have 9,075 shield capacity. RSPIII and TTI take me from 0 to full in many situations).
Like I said, running straight at something and DPSing isn't the only way to get first place. You could also be an indestructible master of war, capable of taking on 13 enemy battleships at the same time on Elite and never going below 50% hull, or tanking an ISE tac cube alone for 5 minutes. All this I have done. If I had recording software, I'd prove it.
Unless you specifically skip Warp Core Efficiency (WCE), Warp Core Potential (WCP) and Starship Engine Performance (SEP) - I don't see how it's even possible to have 40 power in engines.
Just for giggles, using the power-calculator spreadsheet.
WCE = 6 Ranks
WCP = 6 Ranks
SEP = 6 Ranks
Engines set to 25
= 45 power in engines
This means that before you even take into consideration:
Efficient Captain, Efficient BOFFs, Subsystem power bonus in engines (which most Cruisers have at least 5, let's assume that combat engines are for cruisers)
That you are already beyond the threshold that combat engines are useful.
So, as I said in the OP:
Your calculator's math must be off... Yea, I have 6 WCE, and I THINK WCP. But I KNOW I don't have SEP, and I'm only HALF certain about Efficient on my Captain (none on BOffs), and I get over 50 with the Breen engine at 25 power setting (using the Breen ship). Because that's what Combat engines do - the lower the setting, the more power you get from it. I've used Hyper-Impulse engines (I run Aegis on my B'rel Retrofit). I have seen, based on comparisons done on my own, that Combat engines are more effective, be ye cruiser or escort.
Well, why would you put points in Starship Engine Performance? All it does is increase your inherent Engine Power levels (at the expense of other skills).
Now, if you're flying an Escort and you're PvP'ing and looking to max out your defence bonus, I could understand that - but if you're flying anything else (or just playing PvE content), then what possible reason could you have for putting points into Engine Performance? Especially since Impulse Engines is what improves your turn-rate (Engine Power level does too but to a lesser degree).
My Sci btw has 9 points in Warp Core Efficiency, 9 in Warp Core Potential and zero in Engine performance - her engines are at 39/25 making Combat Engines the optimum choice since the priorities for her ship are Weapons/Aux/Shields.
I do run +3 Starship Engine Performance, but combined with +9 WCE and WCP, it bumps my ship into that sweet spot that maximizes defense and allows me to out-run + out-turn most opponents in similar ships. Yes, I do fly an escort, so the speed gain is noticeable.
Not sure about how well healing works for taking 1st place in fleet actions, but I know I've exceeded 100million EC in drop sales on exchange since S7 began (this is with a full time job and only occasional STO marathons lol). It's just a shame that I spend it so fast getting purple Mk XII gear and DOFF's.
Yeah, that makes sense - and maximizing your defense bonus is Escort 101
I'll keep that in mind, since my primary EC source right now is Tau Dewa patrols. But, my understanding that healing in Fleet Actions affects it how it does in PvP: It contributes to your overall score. So, if you're taking on 30 ships, taking a ton of damage and just soaking it up with heals, you get more points. Not to say Run-and-Gun doesn't work.It's just not the ONLY way to do it.
I agree with the above, but many of the fleet action objectives are usually "Destroy X ships" or "Destroy Klingon Dreadnought," etc. Meeting these listed objective are the most important of all if you want to place 1st. All of my wins in the last 24 hours have been 1st place finishes, so I must be doing something right
Grab a Common Mk XI Impulse, Hyper, and Combat Engine off the Exchange (they don't bind, so you can relist them). Take your ship into orbit (Sol, Qo'nos, Drozana, DS9, New Romulus, Bajor, etc, etc, etc - just don't be on the ground or in sector space).
Put the Impulse in. Note your Impulse and Defense Bonus.
Put the Hyper in. Note your Impulse and Defense Bonus.
Put the Combat in. Note your Impulse and Defense Bonus.
edit: This wasn't meant to come off as a "command/order" - just something that basically anybody could do to show what's best for their guys rather than just taking the word of it from somebody else. It's a cheap experiment...
Also make sure you're moving. And no need for mk XI, use mk I, so much cheaper.
Yess Masta...
48/25 Engine Power at Half Impulse:
Common Combat Engine Mark IX - 11.1% Dodge, 20.89 Flight Speed
Common Normal Engine Mark IX - 10.4% Dodge, 20.34 Flight Speed
Common Hyper Engine Mark IX - 9.9% Dodge, 19.94 Flight Speed
Jem'Hadar Engine Mark XII - 14.7% Dodge, 24.74 Flight Speed (added just for kicks)
So we have proven that Combat Engines work better at less than 50 engine power. I still don't understand what the OP is going on about. Combats work better for certain ship builds, like mine.
It's like me asking for Covariant Shield Arrays to have the same shield regeneration as Regeneratives, just because I like to use Covariant Shield Arrays.
I agree with the above. However, here's my results with engines set to 52 / 25 on a fleet advanced escort:
JH Combat Impulse Engines - Defense = 70.8, Flight Speed 24.66
Borg Impulse Engines - Defense = 70.8, Flight Speed 25.61
Omega Hyper Impulse - Defense = 70.8, Flight Speed 26.05
Because my build inherently runs high power levels, even at base 25 engine setting, I gain no benefits whatsoever from running JH Combat impulse engines. Furthermore, if I get into a "chase-the-tail" turn duel with another identical escort type, unless my opponent is faster, I will eventually gain a superior firing position on his six. He can drop speed to zero to get guns to bear, but that also leaves him a sitting duck with zero defense.
Also, if I pop a battery to run, a CI-equipped opponent has zero chance of catching me. Since distance and speed dictates engagement terms, that puts slower ships at an immediate disadvantage. Since CI engines have such huge diminishing returns when runned at high power levels, they are incapable of reasonable pursuit speeds. They are best used on inherently slower ships like carriers and heavy cruisers.
This means they'd be better for turning and resilient to being disabled, which I think would return some value to them.
I definitely don't see the value in them myself though; at lowest engine power setting I have 55 engine power, pretty sure I'm not going to get much use out of combat impulse engines
Game Balance - Ship Size and Wingmates
Splendid! You already said what I was going to!
This thread is pretty much wrong.
He's dead, Jim.
(I) = Impulse, (C) = Combat, (H) = Hyper
No other gear on ship.
All Captains have Elusive and 9 in Maneuvers.
Fed Engineer:
Efficient Captain, Warp Theorist, 6 WCE, 6 WCP, 9 IT, 3 EP
Advanced Escort
44/25 Eng
(I) +77.4% Def, 22.96 Imp
(C) +77.2% Def, 22.88 Imp
(H) +77.8% Def, 23.10 Imp
110/100 Eng
(I) +80% Def, 41.07 Imp
(C) +80% Def, 33.77 Imp
(H) +80% Def, 47.6 Imp
Chel Grett Warship
49/25 Eng
(I) +77.4% Def, 22.97 Imp
(C) +77.2% Def, 22.89 Imp
(H) +77.8% Def, 23.12 Imp
115/100 Eng
(I) +80% Def, 39.31 Imp
(C) +80% Def, 32.68 Imp
(H) +80% Def, 45.14 Imp
Mirror Assault Cruiser/Mirror Star Cruiser
49/25 Eng
(I) +62.3% Def, 20.92 Imp
(C) +64.2% Def, 21.67 Imp
(H) +60.9% Def, 20.36 Imp
115/100 Eng
(I) +70% Def, 34.53 Imp
(C) +70% Def, 29.83 Imp
(H) +70% Def, 38.71 Imp
Mirror DSSV
44/25 Eng
(I) +62.8% Def, 21.12 Imp
(C) +64.5% Def, 21.78 Imp
(H) +61.6% Def, 20.63 Imp
110/100 Eng
(I) +70% Def, 36.53 Imp
(C) +70% Def, 31.04 Imp
(H) +70% Def, 41.44 Imp
Mirror RSV
44/25 Eng
(I) +59.7% Def, 19.89 Imp
(C) +62.6% Def, 21.03 Imp
(H) +57.4% Def, 18.96 Imp
110/100 Eng
(I) +70% Def, 33.5 Imp
(C) +70% Def, 29.21 Imp
(H) +70% Def, 37.35 Imp
Fed Science:
Warp Theorist, 0 WCE, 0 WCP, 6 IT, 3 EP
Chel Grett Warship
35/25 Eng
(I) +67.5% Def, 19.01 Imp
(C) +70.6% Def, 20.22 Imp
(H) +65.1% Def, 18.02 Imp
110/100 Eng
(I) +80% Def, 36.88 Imp
(C) +80% Def, 30.92 Imp
(H) +80% Def, 42.13 Imp
Patrol Escort
31/25 Eng
(I) +67% Def, 18.82 Imp
(C) +70.3% Def, 20.11 Imp
(H) +64.4% Def, 17.78 Imp
105/100 Eng
(I) +80% Def, 38.46 Imp
(C) +80% Def, 31.89 Imp
(H) +80% Def, 44.32 Imp
Mirror Star Cruiser
35/25 Eng
(I) +54% Def, 17.6 Imp
(C) +58.4% Def, 19.36 Imp
(H) +50.2% Def, 16.1 Imp
110/100 Eng
(I) +70% Def, 32.46 Imp
(C) +70% Def, 25.83 Imp
(H) +70% Def, 36.2 Imp
Mirror DSSV
31/25 Eng
(I) +53.9% Def, 17.57 Imp
(C) +58.4% Def, 19.36 Imp
(H) +50.2% Def, 16.09 Imp
105/100 Eng
(I) +70% Def, 34.28 Imp
(C) +70% Def, 29.38 Imp
(H) +70% Def, 38.64 Imp
Mirror RSV
30/25 Eng
(I) +51.5% Def, 16.6 Imp
(C) +57% Def, 18.78 Imp
(H) +47% Def, 14.78 Imp
105/100 Eng
(I) +70% Def, 31.48 Imp
(C) +70% Def, 27.71 Imp
(H) +70% Def, 34.85 Imp
KDF Engineer:
Efficient Captain, Warp Theorist, 6 WCE, 6 WCP, 9 IT, 3 EP
Chel Grett Warship
49/25 Eng
(I) +77.4% Def, 22.97 Imp
(C) +77.2% Def, 22.89 Imp
(H) +77.8% Def, 23.12 Imp
115/100 Eng
(I) +80% Def, 39.31 Imp
(C) +80% Def, 32.68 Imp
(H) +80% Def, 45.14 Imp
Mirror Qin Raptor
44/25 Eng
(I) +77.4% Def, 22.95 Imp
(C) +77.2% Def, 22.88 Imp
(H) +77.8% Def, 23.1 Imp
110/100 Eng
(I) +80% Def, 41.09 Imp
(C) +80% Def, 33.77 Imp
(H) +80% Def, 47.59 Imp
Mirror Vor'cha Battle Cruiser
54/25 Eng
(I) +64.9% Def, 21.96 Imp
(C) +65.7% Def, 22.29 Imp
(H) +64.4% Def, 21.76 Imp
120/100 Eng
(I) +70% Def, 35.56 Imp
(C) +70% Def, 30.45 Imp
(H) +70% Def, 40.12 Imp
Negh'Var Heavy Battle Cruiser
54/25 Eng
(I) +64.9% Def, 21.97 Imp
(C) +65.7% Def, 22.29 Imp
(H) +64.4% Def, 21.76 Imp
120/100
(I) +70% Def, 35.56 Imp
(C) +70% Def, 30.45 Imp
(H) +70% Def, 40.12 Imp
KDF Tactical
0 WCE, 0 WCP, 6 IT, 6 EP
Chel Grett Warship
38/25 Eng
(I) 69% Def, 19.6 Imp
(C) 71.4% Def, 20.58 Imp
(H) 67.1% Def, 18.84 Imp
113/100 Eng
(I) +80% Def, 37.45 Imp
(C) +80% Def, 31.29 Imp
(H) +80% Def, 42.94 Imp
Mirror Qin Raptor
33/25 Eng
(I) +68.2% Def, 19.3 Imp
(C) +71% Def, 20.39 Imp
(H) +66.1% Def, 18.42 Imp
108/100 Eng
(I) +80% Def, 39.13 Imp
(C) +80% Def, 32.3 Imp
(H) +80% Def, 45.2 Imp
Vo'Quv Carrier
33/25 Eng
(I) +52.7% Def, 17.09 Imp
(C) +57.7% Def, 19.07 Imp
(H) +48.6% Def, 15.44 Imp
108/100 Eng
(I) +70% Def, 31.97 Imp
(C) +70% Def, 27.99 Imp
(H) +70% Def, 35.53 Imp
Well - as expected, at max Eng Power the Hyper is the fastest and the Combat is the slowest. All Engines shared the same Bonus Defense at max Eng Power since none of them experienced any penalty for being below 24 Impulse.
At min Eng Power though, a few things stood out:
The Fed and KDF Engineers (common relevant traits and skills) were marginally better with Hyper than Combat Engines at min Eng Power in the Chel Grett as well as their respective Escort/Raptor.
This was not the case for the Fed Engineer in a Cruiser, even when the Cruiser had more Eng Power than the Advanced Escort or the same as the Chel Grett.
The KDF Engineer in both the Negh'Var and Mirror Vor'cha had better numbers with the Combat Engines even with the min Eng Power being over 50. So 50 is not the "cap" in regard to these ships.
With the Fed Engineer in the Cruisers, I want to say it's because of the .15 Impulse Modifier vs. the .20 and .18 of the Advanced Escort/Chel Grett respectively. That .03-.05 difference is enough to adjust the speed/penalty so that even with more Eng Power, the Combat is still better. This fits in with the 54 Eng Power for the KDF Engineer in the Negh'Var and Vor'cha (.15 modifier) still being better with the Combat than the Hyper.
As for a potential explanation for the dismissal/hatred of Combat Engines, I'd assume that's from Escort pilots with recommended traits/skill allocations that will always find Hyper Engines to be better regardless of Eng Power...
(A) VR Hyper Mk XII [Aux] [Spd] [Turn]
vs.
(B) VR Combat Mk XII [Aux] [Spd] [Turn]
*Each ship's using a single single Rare Mk XI RCS for this test.*
Chel Grett
@49/25 Eng Power & Max Impulse
(A) +80.0% Defense, 25 Impulse, 26.2 Turn
(B) +80.0% Defense, 24.76 Impulse, 26.2 Turn
@69/50 Eng Power & Max Impulse
(A) +80.0% Defense, 32.32 Impulse, 28.3 Turn
(B) +80.0% Defense, 28.01 Impulse, 28.3 Turn
@90/75 Eng Power @ Max Impulse
(A) +80.0% Defense, 39.65 Impulse, 30.3 Turn
(B) +80.0% Defense, 31.26 Impulse, 30.3 Turn
@115/100 Eng Power @ Max Impulse
(A) +80.0% Defense, 48.64 Impulse, 32.8 Turn
(B) +80.0% Defense, 35.26 Impulse, 32.8 Turn
Mirror Vor'cha
@54/25 Eng Power & Max Impulse
(A) +68.8% Defense, 23.54 Impulse, 19.6 Turn
(B) +70.0% Defense, 24.11 Impulse, 19.6 Turn
@74/50 Eng Power & Max Impulse
(A) +70.0% Defense, 29.64 Impulse, 21.0 Turn
(B) +70.0% Defense, 26.82 Impulse, 21.0 Turn
@95/75 Eng Power & Max Impulse
(A) +70.0% Defense, 35.74 Impulse, 22.5 Turn
(B) +70.0% Defense, 29.53 Impulse, 22.5 Turn
@120/100 Eng Power & Max Impulse
(A) +70.0% Defense, 43.24 Impulse, 24.2 Turn
(B) +70.0% Defense, 32.86 Impulse, 24.2 Turn
So once again, for the Chel Grett on this toon - Hyper is always better (I had that, had to buy the Combat for this test). On the Mirror Vor'cha, the Combat's better at 54/25 but worse at 74/50. So what's the Eng Power where the Hyper is the better for that ship?
@58/30 Eng Power & Max Impulse
(A) +70.0% Defense, 24.76 Impulse, 19.9 Turn
(B) +70.0% Defense, 24.65 Impulse, 19.9 Turn
Yep, with 4 additional power to Eng (58/30 vs. 54/25) - the Hyper engine is better already.
Let me look on another toon, I'll keep it KDF for this and look at my Tactical...Chel Grett vs. Vo'quv (no RCS):
Chel Grett
@38/25 Eng Power & Max Impulse
(A) +71.1% Defense, 20.43 Impulse, 21.1 Turn
(B) +75.8% Defense, 22.30 Impulse, 21.1 Turn
@48/35 Eng Power & Max Impulse
(A) +79.7% Defense, 23.88 Impulse, 22.1 Turn
(B) +79.6% Defense, 23.84 Impulse, 22.1 Turn
Vo'quv
@33/25 Eng Power & Max Impulse
(A) +51.9% Defense, 16.78 Impulse, 6.5 Turn
(B) +54.0% Defense, 20.68 Impulse, 6.5 Turn
@58/50 Eng Power & Max Impulse
(A) +69.9% Defense, 23.98 Impulse, 7.0 Turn
(B) +69.7% Defense, 23.88 Impulse, 7.0 Turn
Why did I stop where I did with each ship? Because those are the points where the Hyper became better than the Combat.
For the Chel Grett, once Eng Power moved from 38/25 to 48/35 - the Hyper was already performing better.
For the Vo'quv, once Eng Power moved from 33/25 to 58/50 - the Hyper was already performing better.
Remember, for the Engineer it only took +4(+5) power on the Mirror Vor'cha for Hyper to be better. With the Chel, the Hyper was always better. Looking at the previous post with the Fed Engineer, it might be (+10) or so for the Hyper to be better on his Cruisers (already better on his Escorts). More on his Science. Speaking of Science, the Sci would be near what the Tactical was as far as Escorts and needing more on the Science in a similar fashion as the Vo'quv.
With these particular Engines, it doesn't take much for the most part for the Hyper to be better than the Combat. So again, while the Combat is obviously not complete garbage - as it can be the better Engine in certain circumstances...for the most part, it really doesn't take that much additional Eng Power to change that.
These were their relevant traits/skills again:
Engineer - Efficient Captain, Warp Theorist, 6 WCE, 6 WCP, 9 IT, 3 EP
Tactical - 0 WCE, 0 WCP, 6 IT, 6 EP
Both - Elusive & 9 in Maneuvers
edit - DISCLAIMER: I still recommend that each individual take into account their individual characters and the gear they are considering using - if they've already got the toon. If one is considering rolling a new toon, then there is plenty of information available on the forums...and you're likely to find yourself wishing that the Combat Engine you've got was a Hyper. But again, compare what you've got to what you're looking at and simply do not assume it's going to be work one way or the other - and don't forget that set bonuses, etc, etc, etc will come into play...sometimes that makes it better to take the worse Engine.
Unless you have a very diverse build which literally requirs the whole skill tree be set to 6. I guess pve ers and rpers need it.
If I didn't use set engines, I would use combat engines.
Thus using combat engines in these cases allow you to put more power into aux, shields and weapons that would otherwise be limited due to the constraints of singularity cores.