I'll point out that, once more you have wild, unsupported claims. Just give me one example, one single solitary shred of support that Constitutions were still in service. Anything? Something? No? Your arguments are built on a house of cards that can easily be dismissed point for point unless you have some evidence to back it up.
The only time we see one is as wreckage, in a place that can easily be explained as a desperate move.
Everything points to Constitutions just not being in service. We don't see them, don't hear about them, and have no evidence whatsoever that they were produced in the large numbers you suggest.
I did provide the only piece of solid evidence on either side of this argument. The Connie at wolf 359 was not just some random ship shoehorned into service, the admiral says exactly where the ships are coming from. If the fleet was really so desperate they would have brought the planetary defense forces we see too. Forty ships is a small fleet, hardly the numbers of an 'everything we can get situation'. Youre argument that only seeing it once is a fallacy of silence, rendered irrellevent by a genuine example to the contrary.
Assuming there were never Connie's produced after the twelve mentioned is also a logical fallacy of silence, there is no evidence in support of the claim and a wolf 359 corpse outright invalidates it. Museum ships are not fit for combat, nor cadets, they are never shown purposely introduced into combat.
Please provide evidence directly related to the duty status of the constitution class refit that isn't based on invisible inferences.
I also put forth the notion that the Saratoga and curry class vessels are still in active duty, will you challenge that as well?
I did provide the only piece of solid evidence on either side of this argument. The Connie at wolf 359 was not just some random ship shoehorned into service, the admiral says exactly where the ships are coming from. If the fleet was really so desperate they would have brought the planetary defense forces we see too. Forty ships is a small fleet, hardly the numbers of an 'everything we can get situation'. Youre argument that only seeing it once is a fallacy of silence, rendered irrellevent by a genuine example to the contrary.
Assuming there were never Connie's produced after the twelve mentioned is also a logical fallacy of silence, there is no evidence in support of the claim and a wolf 359 corpse outright invalidates it. Museum ships are not fit for combat, nor cadets, they are never shown purposely introduced into combat.
Please provide evidence directly related to the duty status of the constitution class refit that isn't based on invisible inferences.
I also put forth the notion that the Saratoga and curry class vessels are still in active duty, will you challenge that as well?
I did provide the only piece of solid evidence on either side of this argument. The Connie at wolf 359 was not just some random ship shoehorned into service, the admiral says exactly where the ships are coming from.
False. The exact line was 'Your engagements have given us valuable time. We've mobilized a fleet of 40 starships at Wolf 359, and that's just for starters. The Klingons are sending warships, hell, we've even thought of opening communications with the Romulans'
Sounds pretty desperate to me if they're willing to go to the Romulans for help.
If the fleet was really so desperate they would have brought the planetary defense forces we see too. Forty ships is a small fleet, hardly the numbers of an 'everything we can get situation'.
This is typical Star Trek. There are always not enough ships, the Enterprise is always the only one in range. You say planetary defense forces? I ask what planetary defense forces? How else to you explain Generations and the Enterprise B? How could the Enterprise, a half finished ship in the home solar system be the only ship in range if there was a fleet stationed there 24/7?
The Franz Joseph Technical manual? Yeah, hate to break it to you, but its not canon.
False. The exact line was 'Your engagements have given us valuable time. We've mobilized a fleet of 40 starships at Wolf 359, and that's just for starters. The Klingons are sending warships, hell, we've even thought of opening communications with the Romulans'
Sounds pretty desperate to me if they're willing to go to the Romulans for help.
This is typical Star Trek. There are always not enough ships, the Enterprise is always the only one in range. You say planetary defense forces? I ask what planetary defense forces? How else to you explain Generations and the Enterprise B? How could the Enterprise, a half finished ship in the home solar system be the only ship in range if there was a fleet stationed there 24/7?
all that means is that the needed time to get the ships together in ds9 there is fleets of 150+ ships.
and where does it say that the manual is non-cannon? i havent read that anywhere
As William Shatner and Leanord Nimoy stated in an interview with Whoopi Goldber, (also included Patrick Stewart and Johnathan Frakes) each time a TOS Star Trek movie was made they were told it would be the very last one and inevitably the entire set(s) were destroyed or sold off afterwards. I read that as a result the mentality was always that the next movie would be the last hoorah for the TOS crew, especially when TNG was on television and talks of future TNG movies started creeping up.
Thus, wanting to move away from the TOS crew and anything affiliated/associated with them meant changing the ship entirely. Hence why the Connie was destroyed in the first place (1701 - As a kid I actually did cry when that happened... ) and later the Connie A was retired because inevitably the simple fact of the matter was how could ANYONE bar James T Kirk captain the Enterprise A?!? People would have just associated it too much with Kirk.
Hence why the Excelsior in and of itself was introduced as a possible future series with Sulu, who, had it not been for his jaunt back in time to pick up some humpback whales, would have received the Excelsior as newly acting captain. (The irony that in doing so helped save planet earth altogether seemed loss on Starfleet) The same for the Enterprise B Excelsior. New captain, new ship design. They outdated the Connie because the cast and crew of it were aging and couldn't continue on forever (RIP Bones and Scotty).
One cannot argue the fictitious survivability of the Connie when you have Miranda class starships flying around either as NPC's or some T level ship. Makes no sense. I personally would be happy with an Fleet Exeter ship (which can be skinned to reflect the Connie A) that has the same stats but different Boff layout to the Fleet Excelsior.
On another note, a Fleet Excelsior with Cannon build rocks! God awful looking ship though imo...and hence why the Connie skin should be an option!
Fire Away! :rolleyes:
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
I think a fleet Exeter (or whichever is the modern looking one) would be a fine way to get in a Connie at endgame.... so long as the connie fans were willing to bend a little. Sadly I think the cries for a full TOS T5 connie would not stop.
Theres another loop-hole folks might want to consider.
Personally, I don't see the big deal of finding TOS equivalents for T5. Frankly, I'd think that the creative team would work hard to make this happen for 2 reasons. 1) It's something new to put in the C-Store; 2) The RPG in MMORPG is for role playing game--people want to enjoy and get creative in the fantasy universes that they enjoy. Providing a TOS era T5 ship would make a substantial part of the community happier and allow the developers, designers, and artists some new creative challenges.
I.S.S. prefix is optional. You have to physically choose that option when renaming your ship upon purchase/opening of the lockbox.
I do think it is odd that, say, blue phasers from the actual TOS connie are upgradable (albeit up until Tier 4 I believe) but a ship purchased directly from the c-store for good money is not. I purchased the TOS Connie and the Exeter PRIOR to my understanding how the game actually worked in its entirety (never played an MMO until STO). I do NOT regret the decision(s) of course because I enjoyed the product. However, like a real plastic model purchased from a hobby shop, both of these ships sit unused (in the c-store waiting to be claimed again) now waiting for the day I decide to start a new Fed character and in doing so, probably hoping I take my sweet time to play said carahacter otherwise they will become obsolete too quickly as I Tier up.
I wonder how nice the Enterprise C will be? :rolleyes: Looks like it may be as sluggish as the Galaxy unfortunately... but that is speculation.
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
Can I just say, Kelvin-type, anyone? I know it's only in the 2009 movie, but it was around before the whole time shenanigans thing began, so it's ST canon!
Can I just say, Kelvin-type, anyone? I know it's only in the 2009 movie, but it was around before the whole time shenanigans thing began, so it's ST canon!
STO can't have ships from the recent films. They belong to Paramount, not CBS... or something like that.
STO can't have ships from the recent films. They belong to Paramount, not CBS... or something like that.
True, but if you look at past games including ST Command, etc... there were single nacelle ships ingame! Thus, there is no reason why there wouldn't be now, even in the 25th century. Not every ship was built specifically for Starfleet after all.
That god awful looking Tuffi, Toothy, whatever cargo ship for instance could be replaced or have along side of it other variants of starships.
It aslo just occurred to me too that Drozana station was originally from Kirk's period yet still exists. So why not TOS era ships to the same effect, modified of course for optimal use.
Stirring the Pot....
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
False. The exact line was 'Your engagements have given us valuable time. We've mobilized a fleet of 40 starships at Wolf 359, and that's just for starters. The Klingons are sending warships, hell, we've even thought of opening communications with the Romulans'
Sounds pretty desperate to me if they're willing to go to the Romulans for help.
He still does not mention bringing any mothballed or recruit ships, which was the main point.
But I did miss some details, and yet I think I can still make a claim for the general underestimation like attitude. The admiral calls the upcoming battle a party, and says they only thought about inviting romulans, instead of inviting them like they should have. Most importantly, prior to trying the deflector weapon riker suggests that the admiral send every possible ship, after the engagement he does, but at that moment the admiral seems apathetic.
Despite his promise to send everything, three ships remain at mars to be destroyed by one disrupter bolt each. His statement was empty, and some more people might have survived if it wasn't. I ask again why fully functional combat ships were not sent while a supposed museum ship was?
Finally, I ask if you can provide a single confirmed case of museum ships or cadets being purposely sent into combat. If you cannot, I think we can finally put this case to rest.
If a warp core, weapons and shield arrays can be wedged in to a defiant sized ship
Length: 119.5 meters
Surely a refit constitution class
Length: 304 meters
can be up graded with hull plating and larger version of the defiant class's warp core,Along with improvements in structural integrity fields and other tech.
He still does not mention bringing any mothballed or recruit ships, which was the main point.
Please point me to the line, or scene where the Admiral describes every ship type, name, and disposition of every ship in the fleet? Your main point was we knew exactly where these ships came from, which is patently false.
Despite his promise to send everything, three ships remain at mars to be destroyed by one disrupter bolt each. His statement was empty, and some more people might have survived if it wasn't. I ask again why fully functional combat ships were not sent while a supposed museum ship was?
Single man fighters that we already know exist from Crusher's academy experience
Finally, I ask if you can provide a single confirmed case of museum ships or cadets being purposely sent into combat. If you cannot, I think we can finally put this case to rest.
Paradise Lost, DS9 S4E12 - SISKO: Three hours later Starfleet Command issued an order assigning the entire Corps of Cadets to field duty.
Is every cadet at the Academy enough for you? You can argue they didn't actually fight, but at this time they were fully expecting a full scale invasion at any time.
There can be two "easy" ways to keep most TOS fans happy (in my opinion).
1) Fleet Exeter cruiser (as mentioned before by someone else), greater handling, lower hul/crewl than most fleet cruisers.
2) TOS era texture/skin pack. How hard would it be to make a new texture for the ships that can give it that TOS look/feel? Sell it for, I dunno 2,500 Zen? Get all of the ships re-skinned to
TOS look, that grey hull, black letters, sensor dish (where applicable) and old style nacelles and pylons.
That said, I think the idea of a T5 Exeter/Excalbur/Vesper is a very creative workaround, and one I would very much support. Maybe also a Fleet version?
It's also a win for Cryptic, as they would get to sell more ships/modules - with no need for any new graphical work.
Please point me to the line, or scene where the Admiral describes every ship type, name, and disposition of every ship in the fleet? Your main point was we knew exactly where these ships came from, which is patently false.
Recalling every available ship implies active duty.
Paradise Lost, DS9 S4E12 - SISKO: Three hours later Starfleet Command issued an order assigning the entire Corps of Cadets to field duty.
Is every cadet at the Academy enough for you? You can argue they didn't actually fight, but at this time they were fully expecting a full scale invasion at any time.
I ask for an example of cadets being purposely sent into combat and that's the best you've got? With most of star fleet previously assigned to the streets they were likely doing paper work, even if they weren't the deployment was issued for an attempted rebellion by a crazy admiral who knew the threat was manufactured.
Still single seat fighters that were too big to fit in shuttle bays, that we have no way of knowing if they even had the range to make it to Wolf 359. We're not even sure if they were warp capable. Even then these ships were described as...wait for it...academy flight trainers.
I ask for an example of cadets being purposely sent into combat and that's the best you've got? With most of star fleet previously assigned to the streets they were likely doing paper work, even if they weren't the deployment was issued for an attempted rebellion by a crazy admiral who knew the threat was manufactured.
You have to remember this was a conspiracy of few, the admiral was crazy, but didn't dictate orders for ALL of Starfleet Command. Fabricated or not, the threat seemed real until Sisko proved otherwise. And paperwork? Since when is field duty paperwork? Besides that...
Cadet Nog, taken into combat to track down Micheal Eddington while the Defiant is barely operational, used to relay orders to engineering DS9 For the Uniform S5E13, fought during the capture of DS9 Call to Arms S5E26, several months of combat operations on the Defiant after that, participated in a highly dangerous mission to destroy a ketracel-white facility DS9 A Time to Stand S6E01, then was captured by and later fought Jem'Hadar in DS9 Rocks and Shoals S6E02, continued to serve on the Defiant for an unknown amount of time as a cadet until the recapture of DS9 when he was finally made an ensign DS9 Favor the Bold S6E05.
Let's not forget the biggest one of all...The Wrath of Khan. Yes, your favorite Enterprise, the 1701 herself was serving as a training ship. Kirk being on that ship at all was supposed to be just a short training cruise, with most of the run of the mill crewmen being cadets!
Shall I keep going? I could probably think of a few more if I really thought about it. Want me to go into the real life US Navy history, too? I know of a few there as well.
Still single seat fighters that were too big to fit in shuttle bays, that we have no way of knowing if they even had the range to make it to Wolf 359. We're not even sure if they were warp capable. Even then these ships were described as...wait for it...academy flight trainers.
They are not academy trainers, you can look up the models on memory alpha. They are dedicated modern combat fighters that we're left behind.
You have to remember this was a conspiracy of few, the admiral was crazy, but didn't dictate orders for ALL of Starfleet Command. Fabricated or not, the threat seemed real until Sisko proved otherwise. And paperwork? Since when is field duty paperwork? Besides that...
Cadet Nog, taken into combat to track down Micheal Eddington while the Defiant is barely operational, used to relay orders to engineering DS9 For the Uniform S5E13, fought during the capture of DS9 Call to Arms S5E26, several months of combat operations on the Defiant after that, participated in a highly dangerous mission to destroy a ketracel-white facility DS9 A Time to Stand S6E01, then was captured by and later fought Jem'Hadar in DS9 Rocks and Shoals S6E02, continued to serve on the Defiant for an unknown amount of time as a cadet until the recapture of DS9 when he was finally made an ensign DS9 Favor the Bold S6E05.
Shall I keep going? I could probably think of a few more if I really thought about it. Want me to go into the real life US Navy history, too? I know of a few there as well.
Well you got me on the cadet aspect, my bad there. But the truth remains on the admirals source info for the fleet.
Perhaps you missed the grammatical establishment of recall, and in the fleet, those ships came from active duty and that's all the proof I need.
Perhaps you missed the part where Hanson never said recall? He didn't say one word on the origin of any of the ships. Just 'we have assembled a fleet.'
They are not academy trainers, you can look up the models on memory alpha. They are dedicated modern combat fighters that we're left behind.
Memory alpha calls them sentry pods, no further information can be found on what they are, what they can do, or if they are even warp capable. The script even calls them unmanned pods, so these things are not even crewed, just part of the planetary defense system for Mars.
Near the beginning of the first episode the admiral says he's sending all available ships, as in ships that can make it that are in service.
The drones are still combat machines worth taking, especially if the situation was so dire it required museum pieces. Tractor beams are warp capable if they are too big for shuttle bays.
And even though I was wrong about cadets, twok doesn't count because that was supposed to be a training cruise. :P
Near the beginning of the first episode the admiral says he's sending all available ships, as in ships that can make it that are in service.
The drones are still combat machines worth taking, especially if the situation was so dire it required museum pieces. Tractor beams are warp capable if they are too big for shuttle bays.
And even though I was wrong about cadets, twok doesn't count because that was supposed to be a training cruise. :P
The Enterprise was available in twok, and it was just a ship full of cadets. I don't think the admiral was going to be too fussy to take a trainer ship into combat when facing the borg.
You assume these ships were able to function outside of whatever control center mars had.
Twok does count. Cadets being sent into a dangerous situation are cadets being sent into a dangerous situation. It even shows some constitutions being relegated to training, even in kirk's day
I'd like to see the Ambassador with a Connie skin (if you already purchased the Connie ship), then be able to have the Connie bridge applied to it.
This is just like it makes sense that you can buy the TOS uniforms and be flying around in an Ody. We need the ship to fit the uniforms for the fantasy to be complete.
I would at least like the satisfaction of being told that my ship shouldn't be hauling garbage... it should be hauled away AS garbage. :P
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I did provide the only piece of solid evidence on either side of this argument. The Connie at wolf 359 was not just some random ship shoehorned into service, the admiral says exactly where the ships are coming from. If the fleet was really so desperate they would have brought the planetary defense forces we see too. Forty ships is a small fleet, hardly the numbers of an 'everything we can get situation'. Youre argument that only seeing it once is a fallacy of silence, rendered irrellevent by a genuine example to the contrary.
Assuming there were never Connie's produced after the twelve mentioned is also a logical fallacy of silence, there is no evidence in support of the claim and a wolf 359 corpse outright invalidates it. Museum ships are not fit for combat, nor cadets, they are never shown purposely introduced into combat.
Please provide evidence directly related to the duty status of the constitution class refit that isn't based on invisible inferences.
I also put forth the notion that the Saratoga and curry class vessels are still in active duty, will you challenge that as well?
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Please don't, this conversation will just happen all over again.
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refer to my last post about connie numbers
The Franz Joseph Technical manual? Yeah, hate to break it to you, but its not canon.
False. The exact line was 'Your engagements have given us valuable time. We've mobilized a fleet of 40 starships at Wolf 359, and that's just for starters. The Klingons are sending warships, hell, we've even thought of opening communications with the Romulans'
Sounds pretty desperate to me if they're willing to go to the Romulans for help.
This is typical Star Trek. There are always not enough ships, the Enterprise is always the only one in range. You say planetary defense forces? I ask what planetary defense forces? How else to you explain Generations and the Enterprise B? How could the Enterprise, a half finished ship in the home solar system be the only ship in range if there was a fleet stationed there 24/7?
all that means is that the needed time to get the ships together in ds9 there is fleets of 150+ ships.
and where does it say that the manual is non-cannon? i havent read that anywhere
Thus, wanting to move away from the TOS crew and anything affiliated/associated with them meant changing the ship entirely. Hence why the Connie was destroyed in the first place (1701 - As a kid I actually did cry when that happened...
Hence why the Excelsior in and of itself was introduced as a possible future series with Sulu, who, had it not been for his jaunt back in time to pick up some humpback whales, would have received the Excelsior as newly acting captain. (The irony that in doing so helped save planet earth altogether seemed loss on Starfleet) The same for the Enterprise B Excelsior. New captain, new ship design. They outdated the Connie because the cast and crew of it were aging and couldn't continue on forever (RIP Bones and Scotty).
One cannot argue the fictitious survivability of the Connie when you have Miranda class starships flying around either as NPC's or some T level ship. Makes no sense. I personally would be happy with an Fleet Exeter ship (which can be skinned to reflect the Connie A) that has the same stats but different Boff layout to the Fleet Excelsior.
On another note, a Fleet Excelsior with Cannon build rocks! God awful looking ship though imo...and hence why the Connie skin should be an option!
Fire Away! :rolleyes:
I just meant the post that said 'delete'. I posted the same thing three times by accident
Theres another loop-hole folks might want to consider.
A MIRROR T5-connie/exeter.
(WHICH IS ALREADY......ALREADY IN GAME)
http://www.stowiki.org/I.S.S._Exeter
I'm not sure what tier it is.
If your high level, Go find and fight this ship, My opinion from what it shoots......its a little more then tier 2.
I might try finding it today, refresh my memory a bit.
Well if it had this loadout:
http://www.stowiki.org/Terran_Cruiser#Unnamed
And I could play with the aesthetics.....and I'd rather not have the I.S.S. prefix, but I might concede on that point....
Then that would certainly be an option :P
I do think it is odd that, say, blue phasers from the actual TOS connie are upgradable (albeit up until Tier 4 I believe) but a ship purchased directly from the c-store for good money is not. I purchased the TOS Connie and the Exeter PRIOR to my understanding how the game actually worked in its entirety (never played an MMO until STO). I do NOT regret the decision(s) of course because I enjoyed the product. However, like a real plastic model purchased from a hobby shop, both of these ships sit unused (in the c-store waiting to be claimed again) now waiting for the day I decide to start a new Fed character and in doing so, probably hoping I take my sweet time to play said carahacter otherwise they will become obsolete too quickly as I Tier up.
I wonder how nice the Enterprise C will be? :rolleyes: Looks like it may be as sluggish as the Galaxy unfortunately... but that is speculation.
True, but if you look at past games including ST Command, etc... there were single nacelle ships ingame! Thus, there is no reason why there wouldn't be now, even in the 25th century. Not every ship was built specifically for Starfleet after all.
That god awful looking Tuffi, Toothy, whatever cargo ship for instance could be replaced or have along side of it other variants of starships.
It aslo just occurred to me too that Drozana station was originally from Kirk's period yet still exists. So why not TOS era ships to the same effect, modified of course for optimal use.
Stirring the Pot....
But I did miss some details, and yet I think I can still make a claim for the general underestimation like attitude. The admiral calls the upcoming battle a party, and says they only thought about inviting romulans, instead of inviting them like they should have. Most importantly, prior to trying the deflector weapon riker suggests that the admiral send every possible ship, after the engagement he does, but at that moment the admiral seems apathetic.
Despite his promise to send everything, three ships remain at mars to be destroyed by one disrupter bolt each. His statement was empty, and some more people might have survived if it wasn't. I ask again why fully functional combat ships were not sent while a supposed museum ship was?
Finally, I ask if you can provide a single confirmed case of museum ships or cadets being purposely sent into combat. If you cannot, I think we can finally put this case to rest.
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Twitter:
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Length: 119.5 meters
Surely a refit constitution class
Length: 304 meters
can be up graded with hull plating and larger version of the defiant class's warp core,Along with improvements in structural integrity fields and other tech.
Single man fighters that we already know exist from Crusher's academy experience
Paradise Lost, DS9 S4E12 - SISKO: Three hours later Starfleet Command issued an order assigning the entire Corps of Cadets to field duty.
Is every cadet at the Academy enough for you? You can argue they didn't actually fight, but at this time they were fully expecting a full scale invasion at any time.
There can be two "easy" ways to keep most TOS fans happy (in my opinion).
1) Fleet Exeter cruiser (as mentioned before by someone else), greater handling, lower hul/crewl than most fleet cruisers.
2) TOS era texture/skin pack. How hard would it be to make a new texture for the ships that can give it that TOS look/feel? Sell it for, I dunno 2,500 Zen? Get all of the ships re-skinned to
TOS look, that grey hull, black letters, sensor dish (where applicable) and old style nacelles and pylons.
That said, I think the idea of a T5 Exeter/Excalbur/Vesper is a very creative workaround, and one I would very much support. Maybe also a Fleet version?
It's also a win for Cryptic, as they would get to sell more ships/modules - with no need for any new graphical work.
Recalling every available ship implies active duty.
Still fighting forces that were left behind.
I ask for an example of cadets being purposely sent into combat and that's the best you've got? With most of star fleet previously assigned to the streets they were likely doing paper work, even if they weren't the deployment was issued for an attempted rebellion by a crazy admiral who knew the threat was manufactured.
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About to be overrun by Borg implies you do what you have to.
Still single seat fighters that were too big to fit in shuttle bays, that we have no way of knowing if they even had the range to make it to Wolf 359. We're not even sure if they were warp capable. Even then these ships were described as...wait for it...academy flight trainers.
You have to remember this was a conspiracy of few, the admiral was crazy, but didn't dictate orders for ALL of Starfleet Command. Fabricated or not, the threat seemed real until Sisko proved otherwise. And paperwork? Since when is field duty paperwork? Besides that...
Cadet Nog, taken into combat to track down Micheal Eddington while the Defiant is barely operational, used to relay orders to engineering DS9 For the Uniform S5E13, fought during the capture of DS9 Call to Arms S5E26, several months of combat operations on the Defiant after that, participated in a highly dangerous mission to destroy a ketracel-white facility DS9 A Time to Stand S6E01, then was captured by and later fought Jem'Hadar in DS9 Rocks and Shoals S6E02, continued to serve on the Defiant for an unknown amount of time as a cadet until the recapture of DS9 when he was finally made an ensign DS9 Favor the Bold S6E05.
Let's not forget the biggest one of all...The Wrath of Khan. Yes, your favorite Enterprise, the 1701 herself was serving as a training ship. Kirk being on that ship at all was supposed to be just a short training cruise, with most of the run of the mill crewmen being cadets!
Shall I keep going? I could probably think of a few more if I really thought about it. Want me to go into the real life US Navy history, too? I know of a few there as well.
Perhaps you missed the grammatical establishment of recall, and in the fleet, those ships came from active duty and that's all the proof I need.
They are not academy trainers, you can look up the models on memory alpha. They are dedicated modern combat fighters that we're left behind.
Well you got me on the cadet aspect, my bad there. But the truth remains on the admirals source info for the fleet.
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Memory alpha calls them sentry pods, no further information can be found on what they are, what they can do, or if they are even warp capable. The script even calls them unmanned pods, so these things are not even crewed, just part of the planetary defense system for Mars.
There is zero source information for the fleet. None. Zip. Zero. Nada.
Check out my edit for the post above, you'll probably hate that one.
The drones are still combat machines worth taking, especially if the situation was so dire it required museum pieces. Tractor beams are warp capable if they are too big for shuttle bays.
And even though I was wrong about cadets, twok doesn't count because that was supposed to be a training cruise. :P
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The Enterprise was available in twok, and it was just a ship full of cadets. I don't think the admiral was going to be too fussy to take a trainer ship into combat when facing the borg.
You assume these ships were able to function outside of whatever control center mars had.
Twok does count. Cadets being sent into a dangerous situation are cadets being sent into a dangerous situation. It even shows some constitutions being relegated to training, even in kirk's day
You don't. You ignore them.
This is just like it makes sense that you can buy the TOS uniforms and be flying around in an Ody. We need the ship to fit the uniforms for the fantasy to be complete.
I would at least like the satisfaction of being told that my ship shouldn't be hauling garbage... it should be hauled away AS garbage. :P
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppt8OWaHg5c