One Way to Improve Elite Ground STFs

olivia211

Yesterday in three straight STF elite runs there were at least 2 people who had multiple injuries and did absolutely nothing to take care of them. The same thing happened to me about 45 minutes ago, only this time it was three people with injuries. One even complained about him hating the fact that he kept getting one-shotted.

I think I have thought of a way to help curb this behavior of either purposely neglecting your character's health and at the same time keeping a handful of AFKers / Botters out of STFs.

I say if you have 2 or more critical wounds, your character is considered disabled and you can no longer use them for ANY runs, ground or space, until you are healed up completely. I know some of you may think this is a little much, but what is the alternative? So many people have been against the kick function we've talked about so why not something like this? Each and every time I ask someone to heal themselves they either ignore me or have the same excuse: I forgot to go buy regens. I find that hard to believe when they came into the STF with the wounds. You could even take it a step further and not allow anyone with a wound of any sort into an STF until they heal up. That would get rid of the "I forgot" factor because the game would not allow you to forget.

Here is something even more extreme, but I still think it's a good idea. If you acquire 2 or more critical wounds in an elite STF, you do not get ANY rewards associated with its completion unless you heal yourself. Then you are eligible again. Again, this will get rid of most botters and the "I forgot" issue because they will only be hurting themselves at that point if they "forget."

I know some of you will say these measures are too much, but are they really? The idea here is to improve the quality of the gaming experience and when I am having to carry 2-3 people through an STF simply because they can't remember to take care of themselves, it really brings it down and in some cases I just log off. I have always tried to be patient, but I have been on my last nerve for the past week or so.

I really like this game, but WOW is looking more and more attractive to go back to because at least there you can kick a useless / incompetent team member.

savnoka

This would be good for elite runs , not really needed for stock STF runs though.

shadowwraith77

Technically they should force the player with too many injuries to become immobile or unable to function all together until some of the dmg is fixed or repaired. As for them not able to receive an award for completion is a bit to harsh as some people do forget or simply jump from one to another stf mission without much pause. 1 critical injury to me should immobilize you while 2 or more should make it so as not to be able to function at all, majors and minors should affect performance drastically more than they do currently. As this will hurt groups do to players becoming rendered useless at times, it will also discourage a good number of people who don't figure they need bother with regens to start carrying them.

brigadooom

I kind of like the idea, but it would burn those of us who judiciously heal ourselves in STFs but who simply run out of regens towards the end (for example those of us in Hive Ground having to constantly run out of cover from the corners to rez the one guy who likes to stand and fight in the middle for no good reason).

Maybe instead they should reimagine the regenerator idea, and make them rewards for having mastered STFs on normal - complete every STF, with all optionals, on normal and you're the rewarded with 3 permanent regenerators, minor, major, critical, and you're then finally allowed into Elite STFs. As well as knowing how the STF works, you have no excuse to forget or be incapable of healing up. Then the number of injuries you have at the end of the STF would subtract from your dilithium reward or something.

rachelj88

brigadooom wrote: »

Maybe instead they should reimagine the regenerator idea, and make them rewards for having mastered STFs on normal - complete every STF, with all optionals, on normal and you're the rewarded with 3 permanent regenerators, minor, major, critical, and you're then finally allowed into Elite STFs. As well as knowing how the STF works, you have no excuse to forget or be incapable of healing up. Then the number of injuries you have at the end of the STF would subtract from your dilithium reward or something.

This ^ ^

It is a very neat idea, this does actually prepare new players in being able to complete Elites, to complete the Optional on Infected for new players is quite a task.

I doubt that Cryptic would impliment it, even the Original Post by Olivia is a good idea, I'm normally againsts players asking for limitations to Elite STF's and adding in kick buttons and AFK timers is sometimes just not the way to go about it.

Olivia will know what I'm talking about when you join a team and the entire team just kicks you... no reason... WoW maybe a fun game but the kick button can be abused by a team who just don't feel your worthy.

Kick Button - Bad Idea (can be abused)
AFK auto kick - Bad Idea (some players do actually have genuine issues with being D/C'd, Real Life issues, pets, work(working from home)etc.
(I do admit that some players are AFK Farmers... but not everyone should be treated as such).

This Regens and healing is atleast a very neat Idea, if correctly added into the game, it would cure alot of things, mainly inexperience.

Unfortunately the sorry state in which STF's are currently in with them now just being a grindfest of annoyance, I'd of said the regen idea would of been superb back with the original STF's and the Previous STF's "the ones that gave EDC's".

its all Grind Grind Grind, players will do what they will unfortunately.


RachelJ88

azniadeet

I like this too.

I'd also like to see minor regens added to the replicator.

zahinder

Let me say that I am thrilled the new rep system means I never, ever have to do one if those BLESSED ground elite STFs ever again.

My sympathies, guys.

shadowwraith77

I do because they screwed my accolades with the release of s7, so now the only uniform project i can get is the assimulated maco uniform. And until they fix it there is nothing i can do to resolve it outside of deleting that toon, and from what i hear their proposed idea is to simply erase those accomplishments and make you have to do them all over again.

marc8219

Its not just a ground problem, I see this all he time in elite space and ground. Sadly many players simply ignore the tutorial which explains injuries on ground and ship damage on space and how to heal them for free at ESD or Qonos, or by using regenerators.

I ended up in an elite a few days ago where 2 of the players both had 10+ injuries, many of them critical. Seeing as its impossible to do elite ground with a 3 man pug the rest of us tried to ask them to heal their injuries, they were ignoring chat so we all left and ended up with penalties.

It was even worse in space yesterday, I had a guy with 17 damage on his ship, around 10 of it critical.

arcademaster

They should really put a roadblock in there somewhere. Just don't let any players that aren't fully healed up queue for any STF.

1) It doesn't negatively impact good players in any way

2) At the very least, it makes the bad sheep realize that injuries exist

3) It won't ruin already ongoing runs as they'll only be punished for the next run

I don't see any possible downsides.

warpangel

It would be entirely appropriate to have your Chief Medical Officer/Engineer declare that you/your ship is in no condition to fight, if attempting to join a PvE queue with a large number of previous injuries. They should of course also tell how to heal them in case the player genuinely doesn't know.

It is not, however, productive to further increase the penalties that come with injuries. That would only make the problem worse.

olivia211

arcademaster wrote: »

They should really put a roadblock in there somewhere. Just don't let any players that aren't fully healed up queue for any STF.

This was part of my idea. Make it impossible for injured players to even que for an STF until they are fully healed. It seems very reasonable to me. I just can't buy this whole "I forgot" argument. There is red and yellow splattered all over the bottom of your health bar. How can you not see that?

crusader2007

Best thing to do is just "share" your heals....yes simple and easy. Seems hard but not really...most people in F2P are perhaps new to the game and why punish them. I have an MK XII MACO/OMEGA set for 8 toons...testimony of having had to do lots of elite STFs...and yes I had lots of heals that I "share" with those less fortunate. I assure you that most of the time it wont break your bank either

trappedinwv

olivia211 wrote: »

I really like this game, but WOW is looking more and more attractive to go back to because at least there you can kick a useless / incompetent team member.

Actually no you can't, after someone has been kicked so many times, they get an immunity to being kicked. Thus when you try to kick them it will tell you, "This player can not be kicked for another 4 hours." It will also prevent you from kicking anyone if you kick too many times in a given amount of time. So a bad player or "bot" most likely would not able to be kicked. Please stop the "wow is better because" TRIBBLE..

darkjeff

I strongly agree with the idea that anyone with injuries should be unable to join STFs. It would:
1. Teach the ignorant about healing.
2. Prevent other players from being unfairly disadvantaged.
3. Severely disadvantage AFKers/bots.

olivia211

trappedinwv wrote: »

Please stop the "wow is better because" TRIBBLE..

I never said wow was better. I said having the kick feature was nice. In few very rare instances does the sort of thing you presented happen. For instance, all the time I played wow not a single time was I ever kicked so I didn't see any abuse. Also, nothing says a kick function here has to be exactly the same as WOWs. Even without the kick function, I still feel having injuries should prevent you from entering an STF until you are healed.

Another poster said something about sharing. I am all for that, but when you ask them 3-5 times if they need help in healing themselves and they ignore you, what can you do? Nothing. I have even asked people in other languages if they need help and still nothing.

I do feel the "No STFs till healed" idea is solid and it will make people think more before just randomly trying to enter the que. What better reminder than to have the que tell you no with a short message that says something along the lines of "You must heal your wounds before entering this instance." How hard can it possibly be to have something like this in game?

flatmatt

warpangel wrote: »

It would be entirely appropriate to have your Chief Medical Officer/Engineer declare that you/your ship is in no condition to fight, if attempting to join a PvE queue with a large number of previous injuries. They should of course also tell how to heal them in case the player genuinely doesn't know.

Love this idea.

azurianstar

Here is what I think about what Cryptic should do with the STFs:

1) Nobody can go into an STF with a Shuttle or a ship less than Tier 5.

2) Nobody can enter an STF with anykind of ship damage or personal injury.

rachelj88 wrote: »

Kick Button - Bad Idea (can be abused)
AFK auto kick - Bad Idea (some players do actually have genuine issues with being D/C'd, Real Life issues, pets, work(working from home)etc.
(I do admit that some players are AFK Farmers... but not everyone should be treated as such).

To me, I think the necessity for a Kick Option weighs more than the possiblity of them being exploited.

Those who likely exploit the kick option are groups of friends or griefer fleets. Which can easily be flagged by GMs and dealt with. And with individuals, to view the report to see if the person petitioning the GM is a person who has multiple offenses (being kicked by players), or those initializing the kick has done it multiple times (even over multiple days).


Anything else like autodection could easily be avoided by griefers by simply moving or putting in a minimum amount of performance to avoid the boot. I personally witnesses this today in Fleet Red Alert and Azure Rescue. Where a person waited for a particular amount of time, and came in before the end to look like they weren't mooching. All the while needing loot they didn't earn.


BTW with the Kick option, makes me wonder if it should be per basis, or should have a cooldown like the STFs if booted, where you are locked out for an hour?

bluedarky

azurianstar wrote: »

Here is what I think about what Cryptic should do with the STFs:

1) Nobody can go into an STF with a Shuttle or a ship less than Tier 5.

Going to have to stop you there and say no.

Tier 4 ships are not only viable in STFs but are for some people the only ships available as Tier 5 ships can only be brought with Zen, and locking STF content out because someone hasn't brought a Tier 5 ship would go against Cryptic's policy of not putting content behind paywalls.

jmanwin

Adding a simple injury animation, such as the existing but rarely-used "stumbling gait" animation for certain ground effects, would probably be enough to set off the light bulb above the player's head that they need to seek medical attention. It takes awhile for people who've made it to level 50 entirely in Normal difficulty to get in the habit of checking for injuries. They need a better visual prompt than a tiny ambiguous icon under their portrait.

interestedguy

I think this is a good idea. If i have a lot of injuries and try and queue for an stf, i would actually be happy if they said I couldnt do it because of injuries so I could remember to heal my injuries.

Unknown

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darkjeff

I don't support the other restrictions proposed, either. I wanted to point out that having your Medical or Engineering officer stop you from joining an STF is also an opportunity for them to point out you can get healed/repaired for free at DS9, ESD, etc.

Do it, Cryptic!

jslyn

It would be nice if us Doctors with our Medical Kits could heal Injuries on our teams. We can bring you back from the brink of death but fixing that sprained wrist is just asking tooooo much.

ussultimatum

olivia211 wrote: »

I think I have thought of a way to help curb this behavior of either purposely neglecting your character's health and at the same time keeping a handful of AFKers / Botters out of STFs.

I like your attitude towards a zero tolerance policy for this kind of player neglect.

Rather than push for a new system, that will unlikely ever come, I recommend you find a global channel dedicated to running STFs if you are not already doing so.

EliteSTF has a very zero tolerance policy towards channel chatter beyond forming teams, afkers/leeches, people who abandon teams, etc.

I'm not a mod of this channel, but I've run STFs through this channel for over a year with little issue - send an in-game e-mail to one of the channel mods for an invite. (Here is a thread on it, There is newer channel thread somewhere on the forums but I was unable to locate it).

gavinruneblade

As one of those who often forgets about damage, I can say I'd appreciate the reminder of not being able to queue up.

A lot of times I run something then go to bed. By the next time I play that character I might forget I got damaged, and thus queue up again without healing it. Getting a reminder in the form of not being allowed into the queue would be perfect.

Got my vote for this one.

olivia211

The no STFs till you are healed, I think, is a good thing. In all seriousness, would any of us voluntarily go into a gun battle with radiation sickness, broken ribs, head trauma, etc.? I doubt anyone would let us do such a foolish thing. I am sure our officers would sooner relieve us of command before letting us do such a thing.

oriklein

Have me appointed as Community Moderator for PUG STF.
Send me your videos of the games gone bad.
I'll make sure to educate all the wrong-doers and keep PUG STF a fun and sterile experience.

coupaholic

I'd support such a system, all you would need is a check at the queue stage. If you have injuries on the ship or the toon, you are unable to queue for any STF and a window pops up saying that you mush heal/fix all injuries before proceeding. Otherwise you queue as normal.

Beyond this anything else may be heavy handed, I've had bad runs where the Borg just blink in my general direction and I go up in flames - and perhaps I don't have as many minor components in my bank I thought I had. Due to the injuries I would already suffer loot penalties because my ship would be unable to put out as much damage, it seems unfair to me to 'disqualify' a player once in map because they don't have the means to keep fixing themselves.

olivia211

it seems as though we have come to a consensus as far as what solution should be tried. It's safe to say that they "no STFs with injuries" might be a step in the right direction. I doubt this will really get rid of the known AFKers, but at least those that come in with critical injuries would be eliminated.

So Cryptic...what do you say?

darkjeff

olivia211 wrote: »

The no STFs till you are healed, I think, is a good thing. In all seriousness, would any of us voluntarily go into a gun battle with radiation sickness, broken ribs, head trauma, etc.? I doubt anyone would let us do such a foolish thing. I am sure our officers would sooner relieve us of command before letting us do such a thing.

Regulation 121 (Section A): The chief medical officer has the power to relieve an officer or crewman of his or her duties (including one of superior rank) if, in the CMO's professional judgment, the individual is medically unfit, compromised by an alien intelligence, or otherwise exhibits behavior that indicates seriously impaired judgment. A Starfleet officer can face court martial for failing to submit to such a relief.

:cool: