Am I the only one...

realmarajade

... who's afraid of the, as it seems with the upcoming changes, working traits of the romulan embassy BOs?
Technically you can gain _base_ crit rates of roughly about 25% with some consoles and the accuracy trait. Will they turn PvP into a "who crits first" fest and make ("elite")PvE even more laughable?

virusdancer

A few folks mentioned it in the Tribble maintenance thread. It got mentioned in OPvP.

I think the guy championing it in that Tribble thread is why it will likely get changed... cause of the repercussions it will have in PvE (though that wasn't his intent, it's pointing out why many things have gotten changed - NWS)...

dontdrunkimshoot

so once i recruit as many as i can use, im sure i will have about 20% crit chance wile APA is on, before even factoring the crit mods on the weapons. thats pretty hilarious.

at this point, im pretty sure the average crit chance has doubled since season 7

stevehale

I always enjoyed building a character around a specific trait. It was a challenge to get the most out of something. I don't have anything against CritH (in fact I love it) but its so easy and you don't even have to give up anything for it. 1% here and 2.5% there aren't small boosts. All you have to do is pay...

Large innate/passive boosts do more harm than good, in my opinion.

redricky

Crits will be the new norm. We're gonna need two things:

1. Super crits. Because crit chance is going to be 100%, anything over that is converted into super crit.

2. Crit defense. Imagine tacking "immunity to critical hits" onto PH or APO. Most likely adding a T3 embassy doff that gives it.

Ain't power creep hysterical?

thissler

So I've seen this answered both ways. So being the eternal optimist I'll ask again.

Does STO use one roll to determine the outcome when one entity fires on another entity?

In short, when I pew pew at you, do I get ONE roll per shot, and that roll will be miss, crit, normal?

Or whatever choices there are. For example out of 100:

0-50 Hit
50-59 Crit
60-99 Miss

Or is it as follows:

0-75 Hit
76-99 Miss

And then we make a second roll to determine severity:

0-19 Crit
20-99 Normal

Just asking. Well to be frank why I'm asking should be glaringly obvious but if it isn't there's not much to do about that.

Cheers!

thissler

dontdrunkimshoot wrote: »

so once i recruit as many as i can use, im sure i will have about 20% crit chance wile APA is on, before even factoring the crit mods on the weapons. thats pretty hilarious.

at this point, im pretty sure the average crit chance has doubled since season 7

redricky wrote: »

Crits will be the new norm. We're gonna need two things:

1. Super crits. Because crit chance is going to be 100%, anything over that is converted into super crit.

2. Crit defense. Imagine tacking "immunity to critical hits" onto PH or APO. Most likely adding a T3 embassy doff that gives it.

Ain't power creep hysterical?

If STO uses a 2 roll system, one to determine if a hit took place, and then one to determine severity, APO already has built in crit resistance. Misses can't crit. So if your crit chance was say....50%. Well it would only be 50% of the times that you actually hit something. Well if you only hit 50% of the time only 25% of your shots fired actually become crits.

If it is a one roll system increasing your crit chance may just decrease the chance to get any other result, in a certain order. Depends on what way the table is set up. If increasing crit chance pushed normal hits off the table first, you would hit at the same rate, but crit more often as hits are being converted to crits. If it pushed misses off the table first you would be converting those misses into crits. So you would hit more often, and those extra hits would be crits.


And all in all, this is why avoidance stats are wonky, and prone to be hard to balance. Especially when the way it is distributed is a tad uneven.

dontdrunkimshoot

i wondered that myself, i assume its role for hit, then role for crit, then role for proc. like all separate.

thissler

You can see where that's sorta important to know as it has a huge effect on things of this nature.

I would bet yes, it is a roll to to hit or miss. Then it would be rolls to determine all the other things that a hit could do. Roll for crit? Check. Roll for all incoming procs? Check, check, check. Roll for all outgoing procs? Check, check. Data generated, start crunching the numbers and applying the output.

Maybe that makes it easier to see how HUGE defense is vs resistance. You make your defense roll you NEVER even have to go through all the other stuff. It just doesn't happen. If you Lose your defense roll, or even worse, Lose your defense, you can just skip to the critical damage bit. That's where you'll be.

redricky

And do we even have the same roll system for different things? Like energy weapons, projectile weapons, mines, doffs, etc? How about to-hit and crit chances when abilities are up? FAW and dispersal patterns suggest it's all pretty convoluted.

Some things we see crit in clumps with observable behaviors. I know a lot of this is anecdotal but I've seen the romulan torp crit on all 3 from a single volley. Looks a lot like the crit was determined at the same time for all 3, does that mean the hit was as well? IDK. Do special weapons like the rom torp get their own special rolls? The world may never know...

lostusthorn

dontdrunkimshoot wrote: »

so once i recruit as many as i can use, im sure i will have about 20% crit chance wile APA is on, before even factoring the crit mods on the weapons. thats pretty hilarious.

at this point, im pretty sure the average crit chance has doubled since season 7

I already hoover around 20% on average according to ACT, over an entire STF or match.

bareel

My understanding of how combat works.

- Roll to hit, simple Accuracy vs Defense roll with 25% minimum chance to hit. If extra Accuracy is there it rolls over into the crit part.

- Roll to crit

- Roll raw damage

- Apply damage to shield with resist

- Apply damage to hull with resist

illcadia

I guess it'll depend on if the romulan embassy boffs are bound like the featured episode reward ones or not. If they are, then there's a bit of artificial balance at least when it comes to non-tacs using them, since those players will never be able to train them in the more desirable tactical skills.

While the same could be said of tacticals and science/engineering skills, honestly you can get all the skills you need for that just from existing boffs and the default trainers.


About the only build which *might* take a hit there is the tac/sciship partigen build, but that's not really a crit heavy one to begin with.



Of course if they can be traded from person to person this point is entirely invalid, but eh.

virusdancer

Toss in according to the latest Trib notes that Leadership's working for BOFFs now... it pretty much becomes a case of tada, these are the five BOFFs you need, eh?

Which basically makes it a case of - buy more BOFF slots...if there are other BOFFs you've collected or use on Ground...

p2wsucks

Another concern is how things like EWP/GWs/TBRs would be w/high crit% increase (assuming those are effected by all the +crits) and placate passive.

p2wsucks

thissler wrote: »

You can see where that's sorta important to know as it has a huge effect on things of this nature.

I would bet yes, it is a roll to to hit or miss. Then it would be rolls to determine all the other things that a hit could do. Roll for crit? Check. Roll for all incoming procs? Check, check, check. Roll for all outgoing procs? Check, check. Data generated, start crunching the numbers and applying the output.

Maybe that makes it easier to see how HUGE defense is vs resistance. You make your defense roll you NEVER even have to go through all the other stuff. It just doesn't happen. If you Lose you defense roll, or even worse, Lose you defense, you can just skip to the critical damage bit. That's where you'll be.

Any idea what if any role defense plays in Sci/Eng boff abilities plays in critH? For example, w/a near zero target is EWP more likely or the same likelyhood to Crit compared to a target w/a higher defense rating?

thissler

Well it seems like they don't actually roll for a hit, so there would be no acc overflow. So whatever your inherent crit h is it is. I mean I've never seen a tractor beam miss. But its been reported that a placate will break the TB, but that's not a miss per se. TB's pulse. EWP ticks. So at each event the computer has to decide if it takes affect or not. Just never seen a miss. Just the placate bit.

So there you go. I'm unsure of the mechanic they use. My guess is that they gain no benefit as they never actually seem to go through the 'to hit' roll part of the process that overflow comes from.

p2wsucks

thissler wrote: »

Well it seems like they don't actually roll for a hit, so there would be no acc overflow. So whatever your inherent crit h is it is. I mean I've never seen a tractor beam miss. But its been reported that a placate will break the TB, but that's not a miss per se. TB's pulse. EWP ticks. So at each event the computer has to decide if it takes affect or not. Just never seen a miss. Just the placate bit.

So there you go. I'm unsure of the mechanic they use. My guess is that they gain no benefit as they never actually seem to go through the 'to hit' roll part of the process that overflow comes from.

Yeah, the question comes more out of anecdotal observation of using PSW on someone after applying a TB and having it "feel" like it crits more often than w/o having a TB applied. I've done no tests though.