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MK XII Gear Too Expensive (Expertise)

pulserazorpulserazor Member Posts: 590 Arc User
edited December 2013 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
At first, I thought 30k dil for a single item that was virtually free a few months ago was steep, but I adapted. With 4 characters to produce dilithium each day, 30k is attainable. I dont mind 10 BNP's, and I can generate millions of ec's with little effort for the token material exchange. One thing I am struggling with is the 194,000 expertise points to buy myself MKXII gear, space and ground.

If it were another character I had been playing for years, it would be alright, I would have 3 million 'useless' expertise points, but I made this character after season 7 started, so on top of the terribly boring wait and grind just to unlock the XII store, I have to endure more grinding to generate.... 384,000 Expertise points for a single space and ground set. For a GAME, this seems a lot more like WORK then Fun.


Let me put a finer point on it for you, CRYPTIC:

The ONLY thing stopping me from rushing to the Perfectworld.com right now and shelling out $25 to buy Dilithium (at 87 dil per Z, even) is the fact that no matter how much Dilithium I had, I would still be a long time from being able to generate the rest of the 384,000 expertise points I needed to buy what I want, and that is to say nothing of Adapted Gear, which I would no doubt spend more $$ for more DIL to get. By the time I get that much expertise, I will have enough DIL to buy... Everything in the Zstore. FOR FREE.




You are losing money, and making the game less fun. Just think about it.
Post edited by pulserazor on
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    hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    pulserazor wrote: »
    *snip*

    LOL. I'm sorry, I couldn't help but laugh. Could I recommend you do Borg Incursions? That's 15 minutes of your time and about 5-8k expertise (depending on your damage level etc). Also you can do the Investigate officer dailies for expertise. Oh and don't forget system patrols (10 minutes TOPS) and all your other dailies. Also you can re-do missions, you can do enemy encounters... oh and did I mention the foundry? Most of those missions give expertise at the end.

    Now if you are just doing STFs for expertise, yeah, good luck. But doing all the story missions alone (something I bet you didn't do) gives you an excess of almost 2 million expertise. If you did the mirror event to hit 50 quick, guess what, you can use it to gain lots of expertise as well. Oh, and did I mention DOff missions? No? Well those give good expertise too (at least the longer timed higher level ones, especially if you crit).

    There are so many ways to get expertise that your post is actually a joke more than anything. Sorry man.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
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    ddesjardinsddesjardins Member Posts: 3,056 Media Corps
    edited January 2013
    I second heretick's reply.

    I've leveled 4 toons to T5 Omega and Romulan reputations, and bought sets of new gear for each. In the cases of the two toons I play the most, experience is in abundance and not a problem. My top xp toon still has 3 million unused.

    That was not the case for my Klingon and fed engineering toons. Both suffered from a lack of experience to burn. The Klingon I levelled to VA in 3 days, but when I started the reputation systems, he fell behind quickly. I just finished him a few days ago, and yes, it was frustrating.

    But the reality is if you need xp - look for the STF events designed for it. Mirror Universe is all about xp, doesn't have a cool down, and an efficient player can run it 4-5 times in an hour. Each run will generate you 15-30 K per run so 100K in xp isn't an unreasonable expectation.

    Just a thought.

    Admiral Thrax
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    pulserazorpulserazor Member Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    idk guys, it still seems like a lot of work to me, I am doing the foundry and the story missions... again. Im even doing patrols, for a pittance of expertise. Point is expertise shouldnt be the Big currency, it should be dilithium. If im gonna be starved for something, let it be dilithium, that way I can pay money for it. Im happy, perfectworld gets rich, we all win. Instead, I have to be stuck repeating missions I have done countless times, waiting for mirror events, exploiting the foundry, etc etc: instead of PvP'ing, helping my friends, building my starbase, and enjoying myself. The time investment is too steep, its P2P. I have $, I want to Play. I will Pay.

    I think there are two things any game company should ask: "Is it fun?" and "Does it generate revenue?" - Grinding Expertise points is not fun, and you arent making money whilst I do it, in light of the fact that I couldnt spend Z/Dil on anything even if I wanted to because I need nearly half a million "repeat-this-pve-content-again" points, and that amount again, when I want an alternate ground space set, costumes, etc.

    Lower the amount of expertise, that is all I ask. I can see no reason in making expertise more valuable then dilithium.
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    hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    pulserazor wrote: »
    idk guys, it still seems like a lot of work to me, I am doing the foundry and the story missions... again. Im even doing patrols, for a pittance of expertise. Point is expertise shouldnt be the Big currency, it should be dilithium. If im gonna be starved for something, let it be dilithium, that way I can pay money for it. Im happy, perfectworld gets rich, we all win. Instead, I have to be stuck repeating missions I have done countless times, waiting for mirror events, exploiting the foundry, etc etc: instead of PvP'ing, helping my friends, building my starbase, and enjoying myself. The time investment is too steep, its P2P. I have $, I want to Play. I will Pay.

    I think there are two things any game company should ask: "Is it fun?" and "Does it generate revenue?" - Grinding Expertise points is not fun, and you arent making money whilst I do it, in light of the fact that I couldnt spend Z/Dil on anything even if I wanted to because I need nearly half a million "repeat-this-pve-content-again" points

    I am F2P. Not P2W. And I am sorry that you are suffering, but we already stated that there are easy and many ways to get expertise. And it really isn't a lot of work. I mean, seriously? A regular mission on normal takes what, 15 minutes tops (depending on mission) and gives you upwards of 5k expertise. System patrols will give you 5-6k easy. Borg Incursions give you upwards of 4k. And the new Romulus missions give you 1700 each. And the Q race gives you 1700. Expertise is very easy to get. And again, if you played all the story missions to begin with, you should have at least 500k in reserve, if not more. And as you stated, you only need 384k.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
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    pulserazorpulserazor Member Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    384,000 / "5k/15 minutes" = 20 hours of gaming. THtas just for one maco space and maco ground set.

    Then I want the omega set. 10 hours.

    "Adapted" set? 10 hours. PER.


    I dont know how much time everyone else has, but I think waiting for another week for something because I didnt repeat enough pve content yet is UNreasonable.

    Its not a matter of expertise being easy to get. Of course its easy. Point is: Its Boring. Q-Race? I did that for about 4 days then I decided that I didnt like 'chores'.
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    hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    pulserazor wrote: »
    384,000 / "5k/15 minutes" = 20 hours of gaming. THtas just for one maco space and maco ground set.

    Then I want the omega set. 10 hours.

    "Adapted" set? 10 hours. PER.


    I dont know how much time everyone else has, but I think waiting for another week for something because I didnt repeat enough pve content yet is reasonable.

    Yes, it is reasonable.

    Unless you meant to put unreasonable, in which case I will skip my usual instant gratification rant and just call you lazy and say you have no commitment to the game and finish with my usual if you don't have the patience and commitment to give time to this game, then you are undeserving of the rewards of such kinds of commitment.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
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    defalusdefalus Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Mirror event + 1 hour xp boost from the exchange. You can make serious expertise there, not to mention a bit of dilithium and some loot at the same time.

    Also, if you don't have much time to play, line up as many big doff expertise rewarding missions as you can and you can get some expertise between sessions, if you wait to turn the doff missions in when you activate the xp boost you can make more expertise.

    All this you can do and you don't even need to play for more than a couple of hours, if even that.
    __________________________________________________
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    pulserazorpulserazor Member Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    hereticknight085 wrote: »
    Yes, it is reasonable.

    Unless you meant to put unreasonable, in which case I will skip my usual instant gratification rant and just call you lazy and say you have no commitment to the game and finish with my usual if you don't have the patience and commitment to give time to this game, then you are undeserving of the rewards of such kinds of commitment.


    I have put in the time, on many toons. I have generated Millions of fleet credits, I never had a problem putting in 'work' until now, that I am forced to repeat content that neither makes me a better player, or presents me with any novelty.

    How about this: Give us more Expertise for PvP. Or better yet... Reduce the amount of expertise needed for T5 store purchases. It wouldnt hurt to have a little support here, not everyone is playing on a 2 year old character banking xp. Some of us are new in s7, and have spent a lot of expertise respeccing boffs and experimenting with different things, buying different project rewards and experimenting with them, etc. Happily spending the dil/Z$, I might add.

    I have characters with millions of expertise btw, just not this one, and it is Sci, so there have been a lot of 'experimental' purchases/respecs involved.

    Its my fault, for starting in Season 7 I guess.

    Also, thank you for your suggestions, tbh, I hadnt really given the mirror event grind much thought after 50.
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    hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    pulserazor wrote: »
    I have put in the time, on many toons. I have generated Millions of fleet credits, I never had a problem putting in 'work' until now, that I am forced to repeat content that neither makes me a better player, or presents me with any novelty.

    How about this: Give us more Expertise for PvP. Or better yet... Reduce the amount of expertise needed for T5 store purchases. It wouldnt hurt to have a little support here, not everyone is playing on a 2 year old character banking xp. Some of us are new in s7, and have spent a lot of expertise respeccing boffs and experimenting with different things, buying different project rewards and experimenting with them, etc. Happily spending the dil/Z$, I might add.

    I have characters with millions of expertise btw, just not this one, and it is Sci, so there have been a lot of 'experimental' purchases/respecs involved.

    Its my fault, for starting in Season 7 I guess.

    Also, thank you for your suggestions, tbh, I hadnt really given the mirror event grind much thought after 50.

    Well think about it this way. You have all those characters. With all that expertise. And all those resources. But guess what? You put in lots of time on THOSE CHARACTERS. So why would you expect to get the same thing those characters have with a small fraction of the time spent?
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Run doff missions. If all you want is expertise, just run whatever random junk missions are available.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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    xcom43xcom43 Member Posts: 723 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    To get the armor and other items the timers have been changed.I think it is like 20 min now instead of the 20hours and it is has all ways been expensive right from the start of it.Expertise is not that hard to get.Just do tons of missions.With a 8 hour skill bonus from exchange will help with that.
    The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.
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    solidneutroniumsolidneutronium Member Posts: 510 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Yes, the expertise drain is a bit excessive. Not everyone stayed with one or two characters since the beginning. Not everyone has time to grind expertise to excess. You can't buy expertise. It will take you months to complete the sets with normal playtime and that's exactly what they want. Working as intended. ;)
    Professional Slider Since 2409

    Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
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    natejam101natejam101 Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I agree, the expertise requirement is ridiculous. I would support removing this as a required currency and instead, raising the amount of DIL or marks to obtain the gear.

    Not everyone wants to sit and grind expertise all day long, repeating the same garbage they did 2 years ago. Some like to pvp only, some like to run stf's all day. There is very little XP in that btw.

    Please change it.
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    hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    natejam101 wrote: »
    I agree, the expertise requirement is ridiculous. I would support removing this as a required currency and instead, raising the amount of DIL or marks to obtain the gear.

    Not everyone wants to sit and grind expertise all day long, repeating the same garbage they did 2 years ago. Some like to pvp only, some like to run stf's all day. There is very little XP in that btw.

    Please change it.

    Of course you're the same fool who thinks that the Chel'gret sucks, which btw it doesn't. Also, if you are only interested in doing one thing in game, also not interested in putting in the time and effort, then you too do not deserve the rewards of the reputation system.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
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    foundrelicfoundrelic Member Posts: 1,380 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Really?


    Expertise is where you're having a problem?


    How? I played through the game skipping MAYBE three missions and even after capping the reputation system and grinding out multiple items I'm STILL sitting on millions of EXP.



    Hell, you get it each time you kill an enemy, not a lot per but it adds up quick.
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    pegasussgcpegasussgc Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I agree with the OP that the expertise demands are ridiculous. I like to try new setups, which require retraining BOFF's often and that is why my expertise is so low. The mirror event helps, though a lot of the time it only occurs in the early AM for me. ESTF's give a small amount of expertise from enemy kills vs borg encounters, which doesn't make since to me.

    A solution to this would be to give ESTF's the same expertise per enemy killed as borg encounters do.
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    hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    pegasussgc wrote: »
    I agree with the OP that the expertise demands are ridiculous. I like to try new setups, which require retraining BOFF's often and that is why my expertise is so low. The mirror event helps, though a lot of the time it only occurs in the early AM for me. ESTF's give a small amount of expertise from enemy kills vs borg encounters, which doesn't make since to me.

    A solution to this would be to match the expertise given from enemy kills in the borg encounters to that given in ESTF's from enemy kills.

    I'll tell you the same thing we've all been telling OP: System patrols. DOffs. Repeat Story missions. FINISH THE STORYLINE TO BEGIN WITH. You know, easy, simple stuff.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
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    pegasussgcpegasussgc Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    hereticknight085 wrote: »
    I'll tell you the same thing we've all been telling OP: System patrols. DOffs. Repeat Story missions. FINISH THE STORYLINE TO BEGIN WITH. You know, easy, simple stuff.

    Easy, yes, no one is disputing that. These things are incredibly time consuming and for the record I've COMPLETELY FINISHED the story line multiple times (while leveling other toons) and to be honest the thought of doing it again is only barely more palatable then putting a bullet in my brain pan. I have college and a job, not time to redo the same boring story missions while my friends and fleetmates are off doing ESTF's which give only a fraction the expertise as the borg encounter enemies and their seemingly paper mache hull.
    DOFFs are something I regularly do and have no problem doing, but again the amount of expertise received from doff missions over the course of 2 days doesn't even compare to that of 1 hour in the mirror event (again, doesn't always occur during convenient hours).
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    majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Have you considered stacking The Big Dig (~7000 Expertise) with The Big Dig (Daily) (960 Dilithium/50 fleet marks). If you run the five minute mission once that is ~7000 Expertise, 1600 dilithium, and 50 fleet marks. There are also some space only combat missions that will rack up your expertise. For example, consider trying the foundry mission "Battleship royal rumble" while flying a high AoE ship. It doesn't have much story to it, but if you enjoy combat oriented missions it's fairly decent. And if you deal enough damage, you will be given expertise for each kill. At the end of the mission (about 15-20 minutes) you also get ~7000 expertise, 960 dilithium, and 50 fleet marks in addition to the base 2000 expertise granted for every completed foundry mission.

    Another option is to do the system patrols. Some of these take a mere five minutes to complete and they award ~6000 expertise. Another option is to go for high expertise duty officer missions. Yes I know, this is going to take time to do. The truth is you are going to have to invest time into your alts to get the gear just like you would your main character. The alternative is to pop into the character once every day or so to set up some duty officer missions.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
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    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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    mistressbenihimemistressbenihime Member Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    let me just dump the numbers that i estemated to get everything at adapted MK XII for the OMGA faction only

    dilitium: 613500 (will take a gold member 77 days to refine)
    borg neral procesors: 255 (lucky me i run elite space STF by default; imagine finding this out at tier V)
    Expertise: 1728000 (equivalent to leveling a character from scratch to max level 4,7 times!!! WTF!!!)
    omega marks: 20700 (equal to running 345 STFs without getting the bonus objective)

    notes:
    i had to estimate the cost for the adapted ground sets and the omega space set because i still need to unlock those.
    i don't even know if its possible to get an adapted assimilated space set MK XII. If so all number go up!!!
    I don't know the cost for the costume unlocks for the ground sets. so i did not calculate them in this total since i have no way of knowing what the price will be.

    my conclusion:
    I SHOULD HAVE CALLED MY CHARACTER LUKE SKYWALKER BECAUSE AT LEAST HE WAS A FARMBOY!!!!
    THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD
    First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
    second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
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    hfmuddhfmudd Member Posts: 881 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The problem with any expertise requirement is that it has to accommodate both new characters and ones who are sitting on literal millions of it.

    While it may feel nice for the latter to finally have something to do with their otherwise useless piles, I submit that the amount actually taken out is not going to make a real dent, and thus only serves to inconvenience or block those who don't already have a hoard.

    For this reason, I personally advocate removing a requirement that is either crippling or insignificant, and let expertise go back to being utterly irrelevant.
    Join Date: January 2011
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    mistressbenihimemistressbenihime Member Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    hfmudd wrote: »
    The problem with any expertise requirement is that it has to accommodate both new characters and ones who are sitting on literal millions of it.

    While it may feel nice for the latter to finally have something to do with their otherwise useless piles, I submit that the amount actually taken out is not going to make a real dent, and thus only serves to inconvenience or block those who don't already have a hoard.

    For this reason, I personally advocate removing a requirement that is either crippling or insignificant, and let expertise go back to being utterly irrelevant.

    whit how much thing cost dilitium these days id say: remove expertise as a requirement from the reputation system and allow us to trade our surplus for dilitium ore. we cant refine more than 8000 ore a day so it won't impact the economy much...
    THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD
    First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
    second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
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    solidneutroniumsolidneutronium Member Posts: 510 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    If you have a life or not living in your parents basement then you'll have a problem with the expertise costs. Those playing on 1 or 2 characters since early access are exempt of course. :D
    Professional Slider Since 2409

    Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
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    tigerblade66tigerblade66 Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    mistressbenihime wrote: »
    let me just dump the numbers that i estemated to get everything at adapted MK XII for the OMGA faction only

    dilitium: 613500 (will take a gold member 77 days to refine)
    borg neral procesors: 255 (lucky me i run elite space STF by default; imagine finding this out at tier V)
    Expertise: 1728000 (equivalent to leveling a character from scratch to max level 4,7 times!!! WTF!!!)
    omega marks: 20700 (equal to running 345 STFs without getting the bonus objective)

    notes:
    i had to estimate the cost for the adapted ground sets and the omega space set because i still need to unlock those.
    i don't even know if its possible to get an adapted assimilated space set MK XII. If so all number go up!!!
    I don't know the cost for the costume unlocks for the ground sets. so i did not calculate them in this total since i have no way of knowing what the price will be.

    my conclusion:
    I SHOULD HAVE CALLED MY CHARACTER LUKE SKYWALKER BECAUSE AT LEAST HE WAS A FARMBOY!!!!

    Geez... With numbers like those you just deflated my Grind balloon. I have just over 1mil Ore but well under half refined and I only have 10k Omega marks. BNP and Expertise I've surpassed your estimate but the first two will take me another month to reach... Who said grinding was not a full time job.
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    ghyudtghyudt Member Posts: 1,112 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    hereticknight085 wrote: »
    LOL. I'm sorry, I couldn't help but laugh. Could I recommend you do Borg Incursions? That's 15 minutes of your time and about 5-8k expertise (depending on your damage level etc). Also you can do the Investigate officer dailies for expertise. Oh and don't forget system patrols (10 minutes TOPS) and all your other dailies. Also you can re-do missions, you can do enemy encounters... oh and did I mention the foundry? Most of those missions give expertise at the end.

    Now if you are just doing STFs for expertise, yeah, good luck. But doing all the story missions alone (something I bet you didn't do) gives you an excess of almost 2 million expertise. If you did the mirror event to hit 50 quick, guess what, you can use it to gain lots of expertise as well. Oh, and did I mention DOff missions? No? Well those give good expertise too (at least the longer timed higher level ones, especially if you crit).

    There are so many ways to get expertise that your post is actually a joke more than anything. Sorry man.

    I have to disagree. None of these is giving the amount of expertise you seem to think it does. It really would take several weeks to obtain the amount if expertise required to unlock all the mk 12 equipment from the rep system It really does feel like a chore at this point, and none of the new dyson missions is helping. each one only offers 99 expertise and skill points, which is a joke. i've already done and re-did the story missions, and it's tiresome.
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    kiloacekiloace Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I don't understand. Expertise is exactly what it says it is - you get it by PLAYING THE GAME - ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING YOU DO GIVES YOU EXPERTISE.


    Even people that haven't been playing forever build up mountainloads at a time.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie
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    rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Yo pulse, just do a mirror invasion run. repeat it every five or so minutes for the full hour

    Trust me, youll have your expertise (its about 13-14k per run, and a good group will be able to do it 10-15 times in the hour)
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    rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    deokkent wrote: »
    Nice necro :)

    LOL i didnt even realize.
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    ledgend1221ledgend1221 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I love the reply about doing 20 - 30 hours of XP grinding when all he had to do was Mirror event twice.

    2 hours max and it generates dil.
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