Please Consider the Constellation Class

lmrt

Hello again people, i think it is time to bring this ship into the game, NOT as a T4 or T5 ship, my proposition is to include it as a "vanity" ship in the same way as the TOS Constitution, lets say, you have the C-Store TOS Connie, and then in the next rank, just "before" or "short" of the Cheyenne you could have the C-Store Constellation. As i understand, the ship is post TMP/STIII and pre TNG era, maybe even pre Ambassador era inclusive?, so i think it should not be a very powerful ship, should not contain special consoles or stuff like that, only the appropriate BOFF stations and console slots.
I hope you like this idea and that many of you can support it, so we can get this ship in the game! .

This is the Constellation class: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Constellation_class

milner62

lmrt wrote: »

Hello again people, i think it is time to bring this ship into the game, NOT as a T4 or T5 ship, my proposition is to include it as a "vanity" ship in the same way as the TOS Constitution, lets say, you have the C-Store TOS Connie, and then in the next rank, just "before" or "short" of the Cheyenne you could have the C-Store Constellation. As i understand, the ship is post TMP/STIII and pre TNG era, maybe even pre Ambassador era inclusive?, so i think it should not be a very powerful ship, should not contain special consoles or stuff like that, only the appropriate BOFF stations and console slots.
I hope you like this idea and that many of you can support it, so we can get this ship in the game! .

I dont know if it would happen. Quite a few of my ideas fall of deaf ears.

For instance I would like to see some more vintage ships in game but in their correct Tier level. I would like to see a NX refit, not a T5 refit but a refit of the NX appearing how she would have post refit like the Constitution to Constitution Refit. Then I had the brilliant idea about how we could make lower tier ships semi viable at end game without beefing them up with more console slots or more hull. Just simply remove all console restriction and simply have the console rank/level determined by the rank of the officer manning a station. This would mean ensign only consoles on a NX would not exsist they would level up based off the rank of your officer which is how they should have been and how it would work in the real world as well.

But Ive thrown my ideas around a few times and not even a "wow thats a good idea" so I agree with you I would like to see the Constellation class ship in it gives me more reason to buy more ship slots and give me something to do when Im bored. But I just dont think the devs would worry about something like this. Took this long to get the Ambassador class ship in all cause one of the modelers didnt like the look of the ship so it was put on the back burner constantly.

unangbangkay

Not to rain too much on your parades, but the existing Cheyenne ship model and variant skins are too close to the Constellation to make the grade, at least not while other ships and new designs are already in the pipeline.

Then I had the brilliant idea about how we could make lower tier ships semi viable at end game without beefing them up with more console slots or more hull.

I'm sorry, but your idea wasn't brilliant. That idea you had would have made every player at 50 be managing a MINIMUM of 20 abilities. It would have been a Star Wars Galaxies level of balance and system reengineering and basically end the space combat system as we know it today.

This would mean ensign only consoles on a NX would not exsist they would level up based off the rank of your officer which is how they should have been and how it would work in the real world as well.

Not true. Even real-world ships have dedicated stations with dedicated hardware capabilities and specialities. You won't see anyone running a ship's guns from the radar station or managing the sensors from the engine room.

The "station rank" conceit is simply shorthand for the quality of the bridge station's hardware and processing capability. Just as a high-end gaming desktop running windows 7 or whatever can game better than a 1st-generation iPad, a Commander bridge station can do more than an Ensign bridge station. That's actually more realistic.

lmrt

Sorry unangbangkay, but the Cheyenne is the Cheyenne, it does not looks like a Constellation, it looks like, well, a Cheyenne :P, it is not the same size, not the same shape, they only share the general arrangement. Also, the ship could be made a (paid) skin for the Cheyenne.
milner62, your idea is very ambitious, it requires a change and major adaptation of the game mechanics, it does not means it is bad, but is not a simple thing as just say, add the NX Refit class to the game, i personally would like to see it, but i do not know if it has many supporters, because as i understand, the devs said that they could add any ship, if the community really wants it (like in, a BIG amount of players ask for it), however the Constellation is FAR more popular as it appeared several times on TNG and so, it was even the type of ship class that Captain Piccard first commanded! .

milner62

unangbangkay wrote: »

Not to rain too much on your parades, but the existing Cheyenne ship model and variant skins are too close to the Constellation to make the grade, at least not while other ships and new designs are already in the pipeline.



I'm sorry, but your idea wasn't brilliant. That idea you had would have made every player at 50 be managing a MINIMUM of 20 abilities. It would have been a Star Wars Galaxies level of balance and system reengineering and basically end the space combat system as we know it today.



Not true. Even real-world ships have dedicated stations with dedicated hardware capabilities and specialities. You won't see anyone running a ship's guns from the radar station or managing the sensors from the engine room.

The "station rank" conceit is simply shorthand for the quality of the bridge station's hardware and processing capability. Just as a high-end gaming desktop running windows 7 or whatever can game better than a 1st-generation iPad, a Commander bridge station can do more than an Ensign bridge station. That's actually more realistic.

Well you cant take and insult someones idea when you havent even heard it all I didnt want to high jack this topic I just talked a little about it. There was a lot more in the idea that would limit people from having up to 20 abilities per ship. There would still be restrictions but the restrictions would be more in line with the way how star fleet ships are actually runned. All stations on starships are interchangeable the tactical work station can convert to a engineering work station and vise versa. So the idea I put forward that I created its own topic for means that it would be more in line with star trek technology than real world technology that you are trying to use.

lmrt wrote: »

Sorry unangbangkay, but the Cheyenne is the Cheyenne, it does not looks like a Constellation, it looks like, well, a Cheyenne :P, it is not the same size, not the same shape, they only share the general arrangement. Also, the ship could be made a (paid) skin for the Cheyenne.
milner62, your idea is very ambitious, it requires a change and major adaptation of the game mechanics, it does not means it is bad, but is not a simple thing as just say, add the NX Refit class to the game, i personally would like to see it, but i do not know if it has many supporters, because as i understand, the devs said that they could add any ship, if the community really wants it (like in, a BIG amount of players ask for it), however the Constellation is FAR more popular as it appeared several times on TNG and so, it was even the type of ship class that Captain Piccard first commanded! .

Well its not simple as adding a new ship in, if you take a look at the post I created you can see how you can limit the strength of the ships as star fleet would have (you wouldnt have 4 commanders serving on the bridge of a starship they would be different ranks) by not simply limiting the console level by limiting how many ranked officers you can have on duty per bridge. This opens up the starships to be quite a bit more customizeable and even goes as far as allowing cruisers to not only be built by the player to serve a tactical role but a engineering role or even a science role reguardless how many officer slots they place.

To get on the topic I personally dont think it would be a problem to have the Cheyenne, sure some say its simmilar to the Constellation but I dont think they are.

Constellation
http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/galexploration_constellatn.jpg

Cheyenne
http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/galexploration_cheyenne.jpg

As you can see the Constellation has a more boxy engine nacelle arrangement where the Cheyenne has a more curved nacelle pylon design. I could look at both of these ships in space in game and could tell the difference between the two even though some claim their too simmilar to be implimented in game.

ascaladar

Well he was not insulting you, merely pointing out that it is a bad idea. :rolleyes:

But on topic no, I don't think we need the constellation class or the NX, they are both old designs and I am not in favor of upgrading them forever.

I had a 386 PC once, in theory the casing of my ancient desktop could be used to house a modern PC but the casing would is too small which would make it impractical to house the components and cause thermal problems.

As much as I loved my old grey desktop it is easier and for more practical to build a new frame to house all the components. For the same reason there should be limitations on how much you can upgrade a hull.

The last point we have 2409 not 2209 or 2309, so I am not a fan of seeing Constellations and NX still flying around.

milner62

ascaladar wrote: »

Well he was not insulting you, merely pointing out that it is a bad idea. :rolleyes:

But on topic no, I don't think we need the constellation class or the NX, they are both old designs and I am not in favor of upgrading them forever.

I had a 386 PC once, in theory the casing of my ancient desktop could be used to house a modern PC but the casing would is too small which would make it impractical to house the components and cause thermal problems.

As much as I loved my old grey desktop it is easier and for more practical to build a new frame to house all the components. For the same reason there should be limitations on how much you can upgrade a hull.

The last point we have 2409 not 2209 or 2309, so I am not a fan of seeing Constellations and NX still flying around.

It doesnt matter you say someones idea isnt brilliant that is akin to saying their idea is stupid. Calling someones idea stupid is a insult. Even saying someones idea is bad is an insult as well just being put in a nicer way. If he has any problems with my idea he can gladly read my full complete idea in the topic I created and then make a comment. He made a knee jerk comment on a partial idea since I didnt go into full detail.

No one is talking about upgrading consoles or computers. What I pointed out was that star trek computer systems are not limited in abilities they have full capability to do multiple functions. Sure you might not want to see older starships still flying around but I hate seeing the same 3 classes of starship around everywheres Id rather see ancient starships flying just for variety. Sheesh if Starfleet had all these Odyssey`s, and Vector assault crafts then why is war a problem with Star Fleet.

But untill we see more futeristic designs and custom ideas pened by devs we are limited on ships at end game and I dont know about you but I am tired of seeing the same few classes of ships everywheres. So I am all for the Cheyenne being included. Atleast its opens up seeing different classes of starships than the same few all over the place.

lmrt

It is not a matter of needing, it is a matter of wanting, we do have the TOS Constitution, why we can not have the Constellation?, it does not needs to be a special ship, it could "just" be a paid skin, and even if they do make it a separated ship, actually it should have less power and capabilities that the heavy cruisers, i know the Constitution has the blue phasers and so, well maybe they could make some special thing for the Constellation too, but it is not necessary.

lmrt

Also guys, the "revamping of the ship tiers" thing is not what i am talking about here, i am just proposing the players to consider and maybe support the idea of having the Constellation class available in the game, that way the devs would more likely consider to add it, it is a canon and sort of iconic class after all, it has its share of history on the ST universe and shows a nice blend of technologies, obviously from an era of transition.

milner62

lmrt wrote: »

Also guys, the "revamping of the ship tiers" thing is not what i am talking about here, i am just proposing the players to consider and maybe support the idea of having the Constellation class available in the game, that way the devs would more likely consider to add it, it is a canon and sort of iconic class after all, it has its share of history on the ST universe and shows a nice blend of technologies, obviously from an era of transition.

I agree being a canon ship it should be in game, the devs talked about releasing all canon ships in the game and with the Ambassador coming out as much as some people dislike it, other ships that are canon such as the Cheyenne would have to be considered, ships like the Yeager, the Daedalus, the Elkins, the Springfield. There are literally hundreds of canon starship and if the devs plan to release the canon starships then they will need to release them all and not play favorites.

acylion

Let me put it this way. I'd pay money for a proper Constellation class ship. I'd pay a lot of money for a Constellation class ship. Even if it isn't T5. I'd buy the thing in a heartbeat.

The thing is, how many OTHER people would buy it? How much demand is there for the Constellation, really? Especially if it isn't T5, and is just a vanity thing.

It's got to be profitable enough for Cryptic to assign an artist to it, and all the other dev time needed to make it into the game.

smokeybacon90

Exactly. The TOS Connie is in there because it is the definitive icon of Star Trek, and its bound to be wanted by many players. But most people have never even seen the Constellation class, or given it any notice. As a vanity ship it would make hardly any sales, and not be worth the cost at all.

The only thing I think might let it into the game is if it is made a unique variant for the Tier 5 Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit (Cheyenne). This still doesn't make up for the hours needed to make the model, but at least they don't have to figure out all the stats for it.

lmrt

Of course, and i understand, that is why i am asking people to support it.
it is ok if they decide to make it a "full" ship, i am not saying that they should not, and of course also, if you make it a skin for the Cheyenne, or a "related" ship (like the Tunderchild to the Akira and so), then you could very well have a fleet retrofit Cheyenne looking like a Constellation.
We have other ships that are not so famous around, i see no point not to have the Constellation because of a "popularity" thing, because i am sure that it is more well known that some of the other classes.

cidstorm

Yeah the constellation class should be in game, I agree it should be a cruiser retrofit level ship. But there there should be a tier 5 fleet version too.

lmrt

I am not so sure about the fleet retrofit or tier 5, but i do think it could be a tier 3 ship.

admgreer

Intresting fact: The Stargazer was a kit bash from 2 Revelle Enterprise A models and a Gundam model. If you look closley at the Ship you can see the Enterprise A's parts all over it. There are some intresting facts about the ship. Its 4 Nacells gave it some special abilities that other ships did not have. Such as being able to make tight turns at warp, By adjusting the warp fields of Each Nacelle at diffrent frequencies would cause the ship to make manuevers other ships couldent. Kind of like Bow plain thrusters on todays ships. And abilities like the Picard manuver. The only reason the ship Class was decommissioned was it had Faulty fire supression systems and the internal dampeners were unable to compensate for the beefed up warp field and caused it crew to suffer from nausea and motion sickness. I would love if you could have "Trophy Ships" in this game like Kirks Enterprise refit. with the authentic motion picture interior, Arboretum and everything. The Stargazer, Voyager and other famous ships from the books and movies and shows. even if they were just skins and interior packs. To be able to Walk around our favorite ships is great. I love the TOS pack, I just wich it was bigger. ANd we have a Pack for every famous ship.

lmrt

Yes i was ware of it being based heavily on Constitution-Refit parts, and the fact that having 4 nacelles gave it more manoeuvrability.

misterde3

admgreer wrote: »

Intresting fact: The Stargazer was a kit bash from 2 Revelle Enterprise A models and a Gundam model. If you look closley at the Ship you can see the Enterprise A's parts all over it. There are some intresting facts about the ship. Its 4 Nacells gave it some special abilities that other ships did not have. Such as being able to make tight turns at warp, By adjusting the warp fields of Each Nacelle at diffrent frequencies would cause the ship to make manuevers other ships couldent. Kind of like Bow plain thrusters on todays ships. And abilities like the Picard manuver. The only reason the ship Class was decommissioned was it had Faulty fire supression systems and the internal dampeners were unable to compensate for the beefed up warp field and caused it crew to suffer from nausea and motion sickness. I would love if you could have "Trophy Ships" in this game like Kirks Enterprise refit. with the authentic motion picture interior, Arboretum and everything. The Stargazer, Voyager and other famous ships from the books and movies and shows. even if they were just skins and interior packs. To be able to Walk around our favorite ships is great. I love the TOS pack, I just wich it was bigger. ANd we have a Pack for every famous ship.

Not sure where you got all this supposed background information (about the fire suppression etc.) but have you ever seen "The Original Series", or "The Next Generation"-episodes like "The Emissary"?
Ships could always turn at warp until that stupid episode on Voyager where they suddently stated they can't and have to slow to impulse.
Heck, in "The Ultimate Computer" the Enterprise fought other ships at Warp 3+ without ever slowing down.
It's not a feature unique to the Constellation class.

lmrt

He was referring to the ships with 4 nacelles having inherently more manoeuvrability at warp than 2 nacelles designs, something i have read about many times, not like shown on some of the episodes, but theoretically even higher degrees.
How many of you would like to see the class in the game anyway?.

akulaeastern

I would like to see this one as well...

lmrt

I really hope that we can get some attention here ^_^

captainbmoney

Constellation Class Cruiser

500 Crew
4 Fore
4 Aft
Cm Eng
LT CM Tac
LT Eng
LT Sci
Ens Sci
4 Eng Console Slots
2 Sci Console Slots
3 Tac Console Slots
Can Equip Cannons.

PLEASE?

hereticknight085

captainbmoney wrote: »

Constellation Class Cruiser

400 Crew
4 Fore
4 Aft
Cm Eng
LT CM Eng
LT Tac
LT Sci
Ens Sci
4 Eng Console Slots
3 Sci Console Slots
2 Tac Console Slots
Cannot Equip Dual and Dual Heavy Cannons.

PLEASE?

Changes made in red.

Reason being: STILL NOT A COMBAT SHIP. The original Connie was more of an exploration ship than anything else.

I personally am far from fond of the ship to begin with. Tbh, I only like TOS era stories, not the ships. If they never put anything in this game other than what they currently have from TOS, I would barely care. As is, no, you may not make this a tactical ship. Suffer with the rest of the cruisers and be an engi sci ship.

And if any of you pipe up about the excel having an LtCmdr tac, just look at most of the excel threads and you will see my opinion on that ship.

As a final note: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMrzdKzQTf8

I believe my point can be properly iterated at 0:17 - 0:25.

podsix

I'd like to see ALL canon ships added to the game.
The Constellation is a canon ship.

I'd very much like to fly one.

I always found it funny that the descriptions of the Stargazer and the Defiant sounded so similar, if inverse.

Stargazer: "overworked, underpowered vessel that was always on the verge of flying apart at the seams"
Defiant: "Overpowered and overgunned", "Tough little ship"

Voyager seemed to borrow from both of those descriptions.

If I were going to try and stat such a ship, I think I'd make it a true frigate (like the Miranda), with some elements borrowed from Escorts and Science Vessels, with the obligatory "not enough power" to run everything at full blast, at once. Basically the "worst of both worlds". Not enough shields (escort) not enough weapons (science), not enough power (escort). Sure, give it the ability to heal and target specific systems.. give it the ability to mount Escort weapons.. but it would really only benefit people who were masters of power management.

captainbmoney

ugh... I should design ships for STO...

Unknown

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admgreer

misterde3 wrote: »

Not sure where you got all this supposed background information (about the fire suppression etc.) but have you ever seen "The Original Series", or "The Next Generation"-episodes like "The Emissary"?
Ships could always turn at warp until that stupid episode on Voyager where they suddently stated they can't and have to slow to impulse.
Heck, in "The Ultimate Computer" the Enterprise fought other ships at Warp 3+ without ever slowing down.
It's not a feature unique to the Constellation class.

There is an entire collection of books detailing Picard and his command of the Stargazer. He was forced to abandon his ship after the Ferengi attack beacuse of a Fire and the Fire supression system overloading. A design flaw in the class. In the same book it details some of the speacial abilities of the Class due to its 4 nacelle design. You can also look up all the information you want on the Class at Memory Alpha and memory beta web sites.

lmrt

For people that grew up watching the series and movies, the "we need more canon ships" is not an excuse, it is more than an argument, it is a reason to play and to SPENT money on this game, i am not against adding more ships to the game, but the fact that the class itself is "old" does not mean anything, ships can be refitted and retrofitted as needed.
The Constellation was bigger than the Miranda and the Constitution, it is not meant to replace any of those, i think it was the medium cruiser in the time when the Excelsior was the heavy cruiser, its particular design offered advantages (as with any other class that has 4 nacelles) and it had it place in history, some of the systems where no proper for the class on its day, but these are new times, so that is not really a reason not to have it and finally, what every person is going to do with it depends on said person, and should not be of the concerns of others, same as with every other class, including the original Constitution.

psiameese

With some precedent for withholding one costume exclusively for a Fleet ship, I could see either Dakota or Stargazer exclusively for the Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit. While making the original Constellation costume available for both Tier 3 and T5 Heavy Cruiser Retrofit. That flexibility just didn't exist until recently. So I don't think it's an unreasonable course.

lmrt

Thanks ^_^, some people think it should be a T3 only separated ship, i think that a ship costume would suffice.

unangbangkay

lmrt wrote: »

Thanks ^_^, some people think it should be a T3 only separated ship, i think that a ship costume would suffice.

Same here. A 4th skin for the Heavy Cruiser should be fine. The Constell and the rest of the HCs have a similar silhouette, it won't disrupt existing classes, endgame players will benefit because there's a T5 Retrofit HC as well as a Fleet HC, and the HC is in need of a 4th skin anyway, because Fleet versions of ships are supposed to have access to an extra skin - the ones that used to be sold separately, see: Fleet AC, Fleet SC, Fleet AE, Fleet DSSV.