A dream I had of PvP

voxlagind

I had this dream the other day, and wanted to share.

It started with a new personal Reputation for PvP. 5 tiers, just like the others, leveling in the same ways. Players got PvP points for playing in matches, with bonuses for winning the match. The tier 5 ability was an instant hold break on a 2-3 minute cooldown. Other abilities included passives that worked to correct problems in PvP right now (for example, auto-placates).

Much like the current reputations, it had it's own store. The store offered special PvP weapons and sets. The weapons had a modifier that increased their damage against player targets, making them less desirable for PvE but the best in line for PvP by a great deal. To counter this, the shields and sets had specific reductions against other players, making them less than desirable for PvE but the very best choice for PvP.

We no longer had to discuss how a new PvE shield was overpowered simply because, without the reductions a PvP shield offered, the PvP weapons would obliterate a player in seconds. We also didn't need to worry about how a new PvE weapon affected PvP, as, without the extra damage modifier against players, it would be worthless against the defenses of a geared PvP ship. Different versions of the PvP set existed to ensure that some of the more niche builds could still exist (if not toned down a bit to be more balanced).

If something was too strong, it was tuned using the resistance to players stat ensuring it did not affect gameplay for the PvE content. If something was too weak, it was tuned up with the damage modifier against player targets.

Expensive, extremely rare weapons became obsolete (accuracy x3 weapons for example) in PvP, as the PvP store weapons were clearly the best and only choice against anyone with the shield and set. People sought out the Mk X versions early on because (in PvP only), they were far more powerful than any Mk XII that might exist for PvE.

People stopped complaining about pay to win, as player skill and ship ability setup moved back to the forefront.

It was a good dream.

mancom

You had a dream about how it was completely impossible to compete in PVP without completing a massive reputation gear grind? And it was a good dream?

voxlagind

You've obviously never played a game with a real grind

zarathos1978

Oh, I shared the dream. But in mine my ship with common equipement (non-set one) suddenly become a trash not worth taking into PvP. I also dreamed that I needed to play PvP not for fun, but to grind some rep points to get gear that will allow me to play PvP.

Wow, what a nightmare.

dontdrunkimshoot

omg, an immunity from placate passive from pvp rep, i'd choose that in a second

voxlagind

People who play pvp are going to do it anyways, and won't feel like they're grinding. They would simply gain something for the time they would have invested anyways. In this situation, MK10 pvp gear would be cheap and quick to obtain. Players would want to quicklyand cheaply obtain it, and would still be competitive with those in 11 and 12 mark pvp gear.

stevehale

I'm intrigued by the idea of weapons with stats that only effect other players. I rather wish the c-store consoles had been meant only to be used against NPCs.

That being said, I do have concerns about putting significant PvP access behind a wall of time and material grind, especially one like the current rep systems. Maybe there is worse grind in other games but that's not really the point. The concept of P2W is bad enough, but I fail to see how grind to play could be in any way helpful to PvP. We should be making it easier to access, not making it harder (or more time consuming) to even get up to compete, only to find that your PvE training has failed you entirely.

I hate the thought of adding additional currencies, but what if PvP awarded some kind of "box" that could later be traded or converted to work with the other star base and rep stores?

voxlagind

I was trying to make consessions by using a rep system. A free to play game isn't going to further develop something that it doesn't have to, that doesn't require some sort of effort (especially requiring dilithium that the rep system does for items from the store.)

Honestly, every successful mmo with pvp requires a grind, and this game's grind is much faster. Most mmos have tiers of pvp gear required to be succesful. First tier is cheap and easy and fast to get. The next tier is a bit better and harder. The last tier is a bit better and veey hard to get (read requires actual effort). While the top tier is statistically best, a player with skill can still be just as competitive with the first as they continue to play, and eventually catch up in gear.

Pvpers are tired and want balance and content for no cost or time. They're not going to get it because its poor business form. I think the mentality of instant gratification is short sighted.

zorena

voxlagind wrote: »

People who play pvp are going to do it anyways, and won't feel like they're grinding. They would simply gain something for the time they would have invested anyways. In this situation, MK10 pvp gear would be cheap and quick to obtain. Players would want to quicklyand cheaply obtain it, and would still be competitive with those in 11 and 12 mark pvp gear.

Exactly like those fellows who grinded stfs go get ground mk12 gear right?

Most systems that allow player to get gear when they pvp is compleate fail anyhow.

mancom

voxlagind wrote: »

Pvpers are tired and want balance and content for no cost or time. They're not going to get it because its poor business form. I think the mentality of instant gratification is short sighted.

Yeah. Just look at how this idea of "pay once, immediately get access to all the gear and play forever" made StarCraft 2 total failure... oh wait, it didn't.

If people wanted to play a grind-heavy standard MMO, they can do so elsewhere. It's really not necessary to ruin all the good aspects in STO that set it apart from traditional MMO things.

Why must any idea for PVP improvements introduce the big mmo-type gear progression? Why not be bold and take an esports approach with equal grind-free access for everyone?

voxlagind

I would be fine with that option mancom. I would be fine with just about anything that improved the quality of pvp to a place where everytime something new is introduced, pvp wouldnt break. This was just my idea. I have no delusions of thinking it would ever come to pass.

dontdrunkimshoot

i play exactly 0 other MMOs because the concept is unappealing to me. but startrek happens to be very appealing. the less like an MMO this game becomes the better imo. people should play a game because its good, not because they have to spend a lot of time having very little fun grinding so more fun content is slightly more fun later once you reep the reward. you would think that would leave a bad taste in the mouth of the player base, even if they do put up with it.

grinding that 1 fasted patrol proboly 500 times and chasing those stupid critters for rom marks has put a very bad taste in my mouth. but i would become uncompetitive if i didn't go through with it. unfortunately the passives and some of the gear are that good. luckily i have never grinded stf enough to grow to hate them, as im sure a ton of people have. and they gave a ton of marks so they arent that bad at least.

the only good thing about a pvp rep system is that i will get pvp marks from pvp, so thats not a grind, thats playing the content i would other wise choose to play, and being rewarded for it. this is a good direction.

but, heres the direction i think they are going to take in the future. a new lock box, a new rep system attached to it. and you can get marks from the boxes too, you might even NEED something out of boxes to advance the rep. that would be truly evil, and im almost counting on them doing something like that. at the very least, securing the ship might not be just luck, but luck plus a hilariously expensive project. might even need a component with an ok chance of drop to advance tiers. now this is the stuff of nightmares.

aquitaine985

I'd take anything at this point.

Be it stashed away behind a wall of grind that would involve PVP in order to do (which I wouldn't look at as a grind anyway)

-or-

Be it all rewarded at once and left for me to pick though.

I'd take anything. I've done the two existing Rep systems. I don't intend to do them on any other characters, I cant be bothered. I'm beginning to tire of the starbase grind and have been tempted to suggest our fleet not even BOTHER with T5 at all, it seems criminal to ask people to throw so much away for so little in return.

But a new rep system to throw the entire playerbase into PVP seems find with me. I also think it should be instituted at the beginning of a characters life. When F2P came out I had LOADS of fun leveling up toons with PVP, it was a new challenge to fight with smaller ships, to use ones you normally wouldn't in order to level. To pick decent gear to run PVP with but not too expensive as it'd be useless at some point. Right now 1-46 PVP is quiet.

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