Playing "Elite Difficulty" turns out to be a waste

thunaeris

I recently decided to have a go at Elite Difficulty during missions, both for the challenge and for the alleged higher value drops.
I found it harder work and a more interesting challenge but still doable, it just takes a little more time to take down enemies rather than insta-kill, which is good and expected.

I was expecting to get maybe slightly less frequent drops but slightly better ones, yet oddly the drops are actually worse, despite the efforts. I end up with endless drops of various batteries and commodities (seemingly more than before) and if I end up with anything like an engine I'm lucky to find it to be even equal to what I might have gotten playing normal and so people are aware I tested it out playing the same missions over and over to compare results.

I wouldn't mind if I got less frequent drops or if they were really harder to get, so long as it was worth the bother.

Currently it seems Elite and possibly Advanced ( I haven't bothered with the latter) are totally pointless except for extra frustration or masochistic flagellation.

This is especially true with the increased chance of taking damage and needing to trudge off to get things repaired.

What are other peoples experiences playing "Elite" and does it ever pay?
It seems broken, so for me; I think I will no longer bother.

sandormen123

I understand where you are coming from, but i also have to add; The longer a game is being played, the fewer 'better' drops you will find. Ultimately, there will be a certain point where nothing is 'worth' anything, but for EC. -Either by discarding them, or selling through exchange. If you have spent vast amounts of dollars to get all the p2w-items there are, you have technically ruined 'the game' for yourself. After that, the only gameplay left is either grinding dilithium for zen or grinding for accolades. Imo.

trahl

While thats true, I have the same problem OP does.

I was hoping to get more purple consoles- even if they were lower levels.

radkip

The only "improved" drops I've seen since switching to Elite are more Critical Components and Regenerators being dropped. Everything else is white or green garbage that I don't even pick up unless they're engines, deflectors or shields that actually vendor for a decent chunk of change.

I don't think it's a waste though. It keeps me on my game by having to deal with disgusting amounts of damage, which is what I see in PvP.

kirksplat

Maybe it works differently with foundry missions. I play my own "Gladiator Rumble" (farming for lootz, 20 mins) on normal and I get mostly greens and a few blues. When I play on elite (35 mins) I get a lot more blues.

Never purples, but I don't think foundry rewards purples. If you haven't burnt through you daily foundry lootz amount, try this twice and see if you get far better drops on elite v. normal.

It's a quick grind-filled way to compare your loot drops on different settings. 15 boss battles of increasing difficulty until you fight level 03 Undine. Plus, if you use the IOR daily, you'll get (960 dil +50 FMs) X 2 for the comparison.

latinumbar

Statistically speaking, the drops are better on elite. But it may not be noticeable to you unless you play elite all the time. For example, let's say the chance on a purple drop on 'normal' is 0.01%. Even if elite triples the chance of a purple drop, that brings it to 0.03%. If playing on elite gives 10x the chance of a purple, that's 0.1% which is still an extremely rare drop rate.

logicalspock

latinumbar wrote: »

Statistically speaking, the drops are better on elite. But it may not be noticeable to you unless you play elite all the time. For example, let's say the chance on a purple drop on 'normal' is 0.01%. Even if elite triples the chance of a purple drop, that brings it to 0.03%. If playing on elite gives 10x the chance of a purple, that's 0.1% which is still an extremely rare drop rate.

Mainly you notice more blue and green drops, and most green drops are worthless and maybe 10% of blue drops are worth significantly more than the EC value.

kingdoxy

latinumbar wrote: »

Statistically speaking, the drops are better on elite. But it may not be noticeable to you unless you play elite all the time. For example, let's say the chance on a purple drop on 'normal' is 0.01%. Even if elite triples the chance of a purple drop, that brings it to 0.03%. If playing on elite gives 10x the chance of a purple, that's 0.1% which is still an extremely rare drop rate.

Yeah, I remember the devs saying something like purple drops are increased by something huge like 10x. But considering how rare a purple drop is you really need to play a long time before you see it actually make a difference.

Also beating "boss" characters is important to getting more rare drops.

lordfuzun

Teh increased difficult levels don't increase the chances for "a" drop of any kind. That's remain the same. What changes is that you have increased chances for better drops when they do happen.

indyshark

kirksplat wrote: »

Maybe it works differently with foundry missions. I play my own "Gladiator Rumble" (farming for lootz, 20 mins) on normal and I get mostly greens and a few blues. When I play on elite (35 mins) I get a lot more blues.

Never purples, but I don't think foundry rewards purples. If you haven't burnt through you daily foundry lootz amount, try this twice and see if you get far better drops on elite v. normal.

It's a quick grind-filled way to compare your loot drops on different settings. 15 boss battles of increasing difficulty until you fight level 03 Undine. Plus, if you use the IOR daily, you'll get (960 dil +50 FMs) X 2 for the comparison.

Kirksplat, is "Gladiator Rumble" a foundry mission?

jcp26

thunaeris wrote: »

I recently decided to have a go at Elite Difficulty during missions, both for the challenge and for the alleged higher value drops.
I found it harder work and a more interesting challenge but still doable, it just takes a little more time to take down enemies rather than insta-kill, which is good and expected.

I was expecting to get maybe slightly less frequent drops but slightly better ones, yet oddly the drops are actually worse, despite the efforts. I end up with endless drops of various batteries and commodities (seemingly more than before) and if I end up with anything like an engine I'm lucky to find it to be even equal to what I might have gotten playing normal and so people are aware I tested it out playing the same missions over and over to compare results.

I wouldn't mind if I got less frequent drops or if they were really harder to get, so long as it was worth the bother.

Currently it seems Elite and possibly Advanced ( I haven't bothered with the latter) are totally pointless except for extra frustration or masochistic flagellation.

This is especially true with the increased chance of taking damage and needing to trudge off to get things repaired.

What are other peoples experiences playing "Elite" and does it ever pay?
It seems broken, so for me; I think I will no longer bother.

Are you high? Elite difficulty is for STFs. Allow my to explain: Normal difficulty = 20 Omega marks. Elite difficulty= 60 - 90 Omega marks (depending on the mission) plus Borg Neural Processors (1 - 11 depending on the mission) and Mark XII gear and weapons. Just bring a lot of regenerators and components because you will be killed often. Die, regenerate or repair then keep going. It's worth it. A Mark XII photon does the same damage as a Mark XI Harpeng.

markhawkman

indyshark wrote: »

Kirksplat, is "Gladiator Rumble" a foundry mission?

yes, yes it is.

zahinder

It's the sort of mission good Foundry authors make and then go cry in a shower, holding themselves.

hanover

Hold up. There is a limit on how much foundry loot drops you can collect in a day?

thratch1

jcp26 wrote: »

Are you high? Elite difficulty is for STFs. Allow my to explain: Normal difficulty = 20 Omega marks. Elite difficulty= 60 - 90 Omega marks (depending on the mission) plus Borg Neural Processors (1 - 11 depending on the mission) and Mark XII gear and weapons. Just bring a lot of regenerators and components because you will be killed often. Die, regenerate or repair then keep going. It's worth it. A Mark XII photon does the same damage as a Mark XI Harpeng.

You know you can change the difficulty for regular, non-STF missions, right? And that's what the thread is about?

jcp26

I know that, but it's good practice. Elite STFs are hard as hell. If you have only been playing Normal or Advanced missions, you are in for a hell of a shock your first Elite STF. Take from experience. Play Elite and perfect your tactics before you get crushed by the Collective.

corbinwolf

Has anyone noticed that occasionally some Borg Elite's (i.e. Donatra's ship) is damn well near impossible to kill? I play daily and sometimes it feels like it has gotten too easy, I don't die once but other days it's literally just not going to happen... not to mention all the invisible kill shots taking you out with one shot no less. Than, worse, ppl start bailing and you have just wasted an hour .... sigh.

I agree with everyone here though, its a great way to learn. I have walked away with mainly greens and on occasion with 6 Borg Neural Processors in one go. Thus, dill count is high on a daily basis for me so in that way its worth it.

thratch1

jcp26 wrote: »

I know that, but it's good practice. Elite STFs are hard as hell. If you have only been playing Normal or Advanced missions, you are in for a hell of a shock your first Elite STF. Take from experience. Play Elite and perfect your tactics before you get crushed by the Collective.

That's not really true. The biggest hurdle in ESTFs is the specific strategy involved in it -- the 10% rule in ISE, killing the probes in KASE, etc. Essentially, playing as a team and knowing what to do. Once you understand the strategy and cooperate with your team, ESTFs are incredibly easy.

Elite space missions don't force you to use strategy, they force you to use more of your cooldowns. Enemies only have boosted damage and hit points, not better AI. You don't learn the teamwork skills necessary to succeed in ESTFs.

You might say that Elite missions teach you to use your cooldowns, but they really don't. New players run their ship with whatever they think would be cool or useful, without really a clue as to what's really useful for their play style. For most people, that information comes from other players, not from fighting tough enemies, either from asking in zone chat, or from looking up guides on the forums.

caelrassto

Cryptic needs to modify how Advanced and Elite difficulty reward players. The extra drop percentage isn't significant for end game, and the extra expertise isn't needed. They need to give incentive for well geared players to turn up the difficulty in solo missions.

They should increase mission rewards from the difficulty level and have it apply to all earned currencys (dilithium, fleet/romulan/omega marks, etc.) It doesn't need to be and should not be as large as the per-kill expertise bonus (i.e. say 15%/30%). Earning 30% more marks or dilithium on a mission is definitely worth moving the slider up.

I will say that running some of these foundry missions on Elite certainly ups the game. Lots of fun.

jcp26

thratch1 wrote: »

That's not really true. The biggest hurdle in ESTFs is the specific strategy involved in it -- the 10% rule in ISE, killing the probes in KASE, etc. Essentially, playing as a team and knowing what to do. Once you understand the strategy and cooperate with your team, ESTFs are incredibly easy.

Elite space missions don't force you to use strategy, they force you to use more of your cooldowns. Enemies only have boosted damage and hit points, not better AI. You don't learn the teamwork skills necessary to succeed in ESTFs.

You might say that Elite missions teach you to use your cooldowns, but they really don't. New players run their ship with whatever they think would be cool or useful, without really a clue as to what's really useful for their play style. For most people, that information comes from other players, not from fighting tough enemies, either from asking in zone chat, or from looking up guides on the forums.

Try surviving one on one against a Cube in Elite STF. Or even a Sphere. And the God Damn Conduits. Either you know how to use your cooldowns or you die. Especially against the Conduits. You can have the whole fleet attacking it at once and you will still die if you don't know what you are doing. And Command Ships 1 and 2? Forget about it. Learn how to stay alive in an elite battle and how to do as much damage as possible. There are a lot of drama queens and *******s in elite missions who would rather throw the game out of spite than try to win. Trust me, it happens. A lot.

kirksplat

zahinder wrote: »

It's the sort of mission good Foundry authors make and then go cry in a shower, holding themselves.

I have to cuddle my stuffed tribble at the same time.

thratch1

jcp26 wrote: »

Try surviving one on one against a Cube in Elite STF. Or even a Sphere. And the God Damn Conduits. Either you know how to use your cooldowns or you die. Especially against the Conduits. You can have the whole fleet attacking it at once and you will still die if you don't know what you are doing. And Command Ships 1 and 2? Forget about it. Learn how to stay alive in an elite battle and how to do as much damage as possible. There are a lot of drama queens and *******s in elite missions who would rather throw the game out of spite than try to win. Trust me, it happens. A lot.

There's nothing really in Elite missions that compare to the Borgs' OHK torpedoes, which is the primary cause of death for most people in ESTFs. Not a whole lot you can do about those.

vestereng

Well if you want end-game gear you need those borg marks so.

I never played normal myself, not even coming up, and I never played for the item drops.
To me it's the same amount of time I put in (nearly) but for more marks and more dilithium.

In extension to that of course the pride of playing the hardest there is and walking all over it like a day at the park.

It's an interesting topic though because as far as I heard the reputation system was supposedly done as a favour to the casual players.
Yet you find yourself forced to play elite if you actually want the items, well..

I think people should be allowed to play what they want though, so why not let people buy their reputation items with resources from outside elite stf.

thratch1

vestereng wrote: »

Well if you want end-game gear you need those borg marks so.

I never played normal myself, not even coming up, and I never played for the item drops.
To me it's the same amount of time I put in (nearly) but for more marks and more dilithium.

In extension to that of course the pride of playing the hardest there is and walking all over it like a day at the park.

It's an interesting topic though because as far as I heard the reputation system was supposedly done as a favour to the casual players.
Yet you find yourself forced to play elite if you actually want the items, well..

I think people should be allowed to play what they want though, so why not let people buy their reputation items with resources from outside elite stf.

OP isn't talking about STFs, just regular missions with an adjustable difficulty scale (Normal -> Advanced -> Elite).

vestereng

Sorry I am of course arrogant in assuming no one would play missions when you can play stf.

Just emphasizes the point though doesn't it, if you are going after larger rewards you are in the wrong place.

You want consoles of note you do doffing and outside that start working your way up the reputation ladder.

jcp26

thratch1 wrote: »

There's nothing really in Elite missions that compare to the Borgs' OHK torpedoes, which is the primary cause of death for most people in ESTFs. Not a whole lot you can do about those.

What in the universe is an OHK torpedo? Do you mean high yield plasma?

thratch1

jcp26 wrote: »

What in the universe is an OHK torpedo? Do you mean high yield plasma?

You haven't heard of the invisible torpedoes in ESTFs that do somewhere in the range of 70k-100k damage? Tactical cubes and Gates tend to sport these, which causes you to essentially die in one hit unless you're lucky and happen to be prepared (since you can't actively prepare for them, being invisible and all).

coupaholic

I decided to make the jump from normal to advanced difficulty about a month or so ago since things have been too easy since getting to VA. I won't touch elite though, that sounds like an exercise in frustration - I'll stick to the level playing field.

In regards to drops I have noticed an increase in blue loot drops since the change, these seem more common then green drops for me now. Also I've only had 3/4 purple drops during all my time playing and I believe it is due to the change as well.

jcp26

thratch1 wrote: »

You haven't heard of the invisible torpedoes in ESTFs that do somewhere in the range of 70k-100k damage? Tactical cubes and Gates tend to sport these, which causes you to essentially die in one hit unless you're lucky and happen to be prepared (since you can't actively prepare for them, being invisible and all).

Oh, those TRIBBLE. I usually get insta-killed by those. Hull can be at 100% and then boom! Insta-kill. WHere do those TRIBBLE come from? The Cubes, the Spheres, the Conduits? They are so fracking annoying.

stark2k

coupaholic wrote: »

I decided to make the jump from normal to advanced difficulty about a month or so ago since things have been too easy since getting to VA. I won't touch elite though, that sounds like an exercise in frustration - I'll stick to the level playing field.

In regards to drops I have noticed an increase in blue loot drops since the change, these seem more common then green drops for me now. Also I've only had 3/4 purple drops during all my time playing and I believe it is due to the change as well.

To be honest, try jumping in elite from time to time, you might run into a team that can smash through under 12minutes

A good team usually kill things on elite & complete it with all objectives in less than 10minutes tops.

brokenmirror2012

bugspatteredjack wrote: »

Has anyone noticed that occasionally some Borg Elite's (i.e. Donatra's ship) is damn well near impossible to kill? I play daily and sometimes it feels like it has gotten too easy, I don't die once but other days it's literally just not going to happen... not to mention all the invisible kill shots taking you out with one shot no less. Than, worse, ppl start bailing and you have just wasted an hour .... sigh.

I agree with everyone here though, its a great way to learn. I have walked away with mainly greens and on occasion with 6 Borg Neural Processors in one go. Thus, dill count is high on a daily basis for me so in that way its worth it.

I just wanna point this out........... Playing Elite PvE and playing Elite STFs is not the same

Meet the learning Curve of STO....

_______________________________________________ Then All of a sudden u hit a straight line! Here. (I cant do it with the forum formatting... I tried..)

Lvl 1 ________________________________________Lvl 45_______Elite STFs

Lvls 1 thru 50 in STO even on elite are a straight line of a learning curve. When you hit STFs its like going from crawling to driving a Lamborghini with no knowlage of the roads your on, how the car handles, And its a manual, and you have no idea what the clutch does.
Its like telling a 5 Year old to go make his own breakfast lunch and dinner. He will look at you... Go What? Then ull be forced to make him food. Once u reach STFs in STO, Its like going from being driven around fro 40 years, to having to drive your own car, at night, on a narrow winding road, covered in ice. Sure im sure about 1% of ppl will be sucsessful. But the vast majority hit Elite STFs like a wall.


Just saying!

While playing on Elite from start to finish helps... Its still a brick wall....

Now....


Elite Dificulty was really truly made for ppl like me, who get bored of STO, and want something more interesting. Normal Missions, I can litiraly beat with my eyes closed. Now if I switch to elite, I might have to add 1 more button to spam when my eyes are closed.

Its for ppl who are good in STO, to find something harder when they are bored. The ratio...
\
Loot:Time for an average first time STO player is about

1:10 Normal
1:20 Elite

The time gained by a normal player playing elite is not justified by rewards.

To be fair, playing on advanced is the fastest way to lvl. Advanced is not hard enough to add time, but has a better reward table to keep a better Loot:Time:Skill ratio then the other 2.