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Engineers too underpowered
den3067
Member Posts: 63 Arc User
I am a veteran player and have been playing STO since it came out but....
Engineers are too underpowered.
I get one shotted by every Tac every time by Pluse by Snipe.
The Eng snipe cant break the Maco and Omega shield set.
Seriously, I'm gettin tired of this. Someone please make the Engies viable.
Can't compete agains the Tacs and Sci. We need serious upgrades to our kits to make us viable.
Engineers are too underpowered.
I get one shotted by every Tac every time by Pluse by Snipe.
The Eng snipe cant break the Maco and Omega shield set.
Seriously, I'm gettin tired of this. Someone please make the Engies viable.
Can't compete agains the Tacs and Sci. We need serious upgrades to our kits to make us viable.
Post edited by den3067 on
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On the other hand, as a very long time SCI player, I have to completely disagree with your assessment in this department.
SCIs have been nerfed and bugged to the point at which even against NPCs, more often than not, it can be quite a struggle to survive. (both on the ground and in space)
I truly am a glutton-for-punishment as I continue to hope that the SCI powers will see something of an improvement in the future.
A somewhat recent addition to the game, The Shard Of Possibilities, IMO, has improved the lot of a SCI player to a small degree as of late.
As this is the first form of 'back up' that has been available for them since the game launched.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I think Engineers are OK, but the PROBLEM lies in the fact that STO is all about DPS. You don't need to tank what you just wipe out. You don't need to debuff what you just wipe out. Engineers have the ability to do a little healing, but tanking is just pointless in this game.
In PVE ENG/Cruisers can't draw aggro from the enemies so tanking is a moot point. In PVP if you put all your effort into tanking you just die slower, but you still die (generally speaking I'm aware there is exception to every rule). At best you are tanky enough to survive an attack while you throw some heals to your escort buddy that does the killing.
So in summary it isn't that the ENG or SCI are bad, it is that the way the game built is very DPS (TAC) friendly.
In which case, I disagree. I'm an engineer in a Defiant-R. I've done STFs with tacs in a Defiant-R. You take a good torpedo hit, or pull aggro from a cube, and I can pop miracle worker and Cannon Scatter Volley while the tac is waiting to respawn.
Here's how I feel about it:
An Engineer of good enough skill, can run off on his own in say...Big Dig (I do it all the time). If the engineer uses their buffs appropriately, drops a cover shield for protection and uses all their fun kit stuff, they can wipe out whole groups of enemies. Maybe not in the instant one-shot of a pulsewaving and buffed Tac, but still useful.
That's also something a Sci cannot do so easily. I mean the Physicist kit can hurt a LOT of course, but it's not gonna be as quick as the Eng or Tac, but they can still do something at least, just not to the extreme the other two can.
In space PvE, an engineer with Threat Control maxed out and properly applying his DPS (especially to multiple targets to pull aggro), can hold it well enough (regardless of the ship he's in), along with keeping his ship alive, to allow his sci and tac allies to demolish the baddies.
In an Elite STF in space, I can pull aggro from a baddie like a Tac cube, hold that aggro, and while my DPS might drop due to moving and healing mostly, the others can focus fire, especially a tac who'll buff up completely and destroy the tac cube easily without them having to run away or get killed.
In an Elite STF on the ground though, an engineer can still be useful, but far less so, due to the fact that a Tac can pretty much do what an Eng can (short of kits of course), and all with pretty much raw DPS killing everything so quickly. All the stuff the engineer can do, a tac can kill before the engineer has finished doing it. Because of that, I've found in some cases, the Equipment Technician Kit to be the best choice, especially against a boss like Becky.
So by themselves, an Engineer can be nasty on the ground, with a team, they can be overshadowed sometimes. But in space they can just simply survive everything if they know how (be that tanking with hull, with shields, or with defense %), and can be a good asset if they hold aggro to allow their allies to destroy the enemy.
Now I must say in space sci at least has a more interesting variety of skills. These skills are certainly useful for STF's. As an engineer you basically repair. You survive by outlasting.
Now on ground tacs still win. But engineers can basically make a mini base. healing, shields and turrets. The sci abilities are not bad. But they certainly demand more attention from the player.
you either go Tac, or suffer from imbalance
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
And since I have played all three of them, I came to the conclusion, that most people play them in the wrong way. You cant play an engineer or a scientist like a tactician. They are not meant for that. In fact, I find it rather funny playing an engineer on ground, because of the artillery, wiping out groups on enemies even unbuffed. And the Sci? He is the doctor.
In Space the Tactician is my favorite, and right behind my Sci. Letter with healing and debuffing. Whats a TacCube which cant fire because of Zero Energy?
And when flying escort, Sci and Eng are pretty good damage dealers. Of course not as powerful as tacticians, but they last way longer in a fight. Like my Sci can tank a cube on ISE while destroying the probes, than destroy it while waiting for the next group.
And pvp? Thats the only thing i dont like flying Eng. But I know enough others doing really well with dealing dps and healing allies while flying a cruiser. And Sci? Again Healing and Subnuc and Viral Matrix, which is really annoying. If your team focus fire while VM is active, its byby for everyone who doest have ET. Well basically, everytime you focus fire its hard to withstand, even with good healers in the enemy team.
Oh and yes, If playing 1on1, none can destroy the other classes. At least with decent players playing them. There are of course those playing who dont use TT, then its like a present for the enemy.
And for a good Eng, you will need at least 2 Tacticians to destroy him. At least!
So of course you cant compare them with dps, they are just different ad have to be played differently for peak performance.
Tac are fine
sci are fine
Balance is fine
if tacs are taking you down
you need to learn to avoid their line of fire
But yes, engi in ground combat is totally lame. there is however one kit that makes it bareable...enemy neutralization i think...
engi definately needs some new kits...with new powers, more directly aimed debuffs or buffs.
I would also add; of course they are. They are supposed to be a support class. A part of a team. It would be more clearer if cryptic had made missions where all three classes were needed to complete the mission. Scenario: Team is under heavy fire. The tacs got t protect the engie while he/she is hacking a console to open a door or something, making progression possible. Then have something similar task for the scientist. In such a scenario, the tacs could be all the dps macho they'll want to be. They could then choose to be teamplayers or lonesome crybabies if they choose to be disrespectful of other players choosing...
sad for an MMO, that you can do any endgame content without even opening the chat window, or any other interaction with other players. (yes, STF's basically allow a 0 interaction rate between players and still be successfull, harder but still possible)
Chroniton Mine Barrier
Transphasic Bomb
Quantum Mortar Fabrication
Seeker Drone Fabrication
Turret Fabrication
Support/Control
Combat Supply
Force Field Dome
Fuse Armor
Weapon Malfunction
Heals
Medical Generator Fabrication
Shield Generator Fabrication
Shield Recharge
Buffs
Equipment Diagnostics
Quick Fix
Yeah, thats doesn't look well-rounded or a useful set of kit skills at all for the Engineer compared to Science and Tactical with Engineering having;
+1 more Offensive Skills than Tacs
+1 more Support/Control skills than Tacs
+2 more Heals than a Tac
Luckily the Tactical Kits have more combat Buffs, with +4 for the tacs compared to the Engineer, +3 compared to Science.
Oh woe is the Engineer that isn't equal to everyone else at thier jobs as well as he is at his own. / sarcasm off
R.I.P
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
So... yeah, space wise they aren't damage dealing monsters (not their job -.-), but they are great tanks and support. Ground, they aren't damage dealing monsters (um... again not their job), but they can deal TONS of damage via other methods. Plus they have pretty good CC and great snares and slows. Engis are fun XD
Mind boggling. Of course they shouldn't be exactly the same, but one shouldn't so clearly be the better choice.
I think the biggest problem is when the nerfed RSF. It is supposed to be the counter to Alpha Strike, but it really isn't impressive at all anymore, and you can get Alpha Striked right through it.
Because Space requires only quick PewPew to accomplish and the Tac is the quick PewPew class.
I find the Engineer very viable in Space combat if one does not play them as if they are meant to be a tactical toon in performance.
Tank up, Lock in the "energy overcap" and go to town.
Science is the same. Very viable and effective if one plays them as if they are not meant to perform as a Tactical class.
Of course you already know this and I'm merely rambling......
R.I.P
Tacs are outclassed by Engineers AND Science
On normal I've never had that problem on ground or in space. Engineer's I think are just way more versatile than your average Tac captain. Play Into the Hive where you fight the borg queen. A good cover shield and medical turret is everyone's best friend.
Also along these lines I've got 3 sci captains on Fed and 1 sci on the KDF side again all using different kits, and have very little problems in the game playing them. Granted it does usually take a little longer to kill things on a Sci than say an Eng or a Tac but it's not totally out of the question. Use the right bridge officer layout and there shouldn't be any problems.
Granted, Tacs are easier to play. But they are not the super imba class most people think they are. Even a decent player can play all classes in a way so none of them are superior. And sry, if you get killed as a engineer because one tac uses alpha strike -or all his usable buffs at once- than sry, you have made something wrong or he was just lucky. Because even though it is powerful, a eng and even a sci can withstand a alphastrike without much trouble. At least if there is only one enemy (even a skilled one)
Of course that only applies, if you play you eng like one and not like a tac. But again, that was never meant to be.
And even though tacs are easier to play - or more noobfriendly - there are enough players who TRIBBLE them up and make less dmg than some carrier pet.
rendering them utterly useless, atleast last time i did any ground stf with an engi that was the case.
i personally prefer sci with heal kit for ground...everlasting, heal = best support, still able to kill anything, but not really fast. yet enough dmg to be first in romulan temple fleet action 80% of the time.
They can adapt against turrets. But they cant adapt against mortas. Because they deal kinetic damage. 3 Mortars + Ophidian Cane= Bye bye Borg.
Your not helping the OP's belief system that Engineers are UP. :P
R.I.P
I play support. In space I pin enemies in place with warp plasma and tractor beams, I annoy everyone with FAW and I can shrug off most damage while helping other ships with theirs. On the ground I love the technician kit, using fuse armour and weapon malfunction on priority targets leaves them vulnerable. When I remember I can boost weapon power and shield strength. I've maxed out points in energy weapons so I can still put out decent damage.
And the best thing is, I can change it up to something more offensive.
I plan to get the Breen ship, strap DHC's and turrets onto it, and go nuts. I'm confident that this ship with Engineer power levels and abilities will be a beast - sure it won't have the buffs a Tac has access to, but the ship will stay alive longer. Even on the ground you could use the popular kits for mines, turrets and so on, and you can't forget the ever useful planetary bombardment ability.
Ground needs some work though making kits (other than Enemy Neutralisation) useful.
Bunker fabrication (Based on Mk X)
Forcefield dome: Really isn't noticeable beyond the visual effect, perhaps make it a straight boost to the defence figure.
Med Gen: Again, nothing much beyond the visual, perhaps up it to 30 HP/s regen and make the defence boost a straight figure.
Turret fab: Bring the per hit damage up to 25 (Enough that you can cause pain with 1, not enough to be OP with 3, easily countered with a med and shield gen combo), on a side note, give it a rotating frequency modulation such that it can fire say... 10 times before getting adapted to, it really detracts from the kit in STFs although I do like how remodding your own weapon does the turret as well so keep that feature.
Shield gen: The current regen really is pathetic 8SP/s? make that 15 at the very least maybe 20, not enough to make you indestructible but not totally useless as is now, as with the other resistance boosts change it to a straight figure.
Adjust other skills accordingly.
and now I hand this to you forum peeps to assess and feedback upon
They adapt to phaser turrets at the same rate they they adapt to regular weapons, same goes for drones, but they don't seem able to adapt to quantum mortars at all. They also seem unable to adapt to mines or transphasic bombs.
It's highly probable that the engi in your ground STF was completely and utterly incompetent, or still didn't know how to use his kit after all this time (the number of fail fab specs out there is actually mind boggling O.O). Or he didn't have purple explosives experts and armory officers.
Also to adam, forcefield dome isn't noticeable... against the borg. Against everything else, it's VERY noticeable. Also that shield regen is not as weak as you think it is. It's possible you aren't specced into the proper ground skills, since my turrets (all of them) do 45 per shot in each burst. To say nothing of my mortars and seeker drones. And my shield regens are weak, as are my medical gens, since I don't have them specced in. The thing is though, you need to be specced into generators to make those more powerful. If they gave us the maxed ones for free (the maxed out ones btw, good lord those are powerful, med gens healing 40 per second, shield gens healing your shields 25-30 per second o.O) then engis would be majorly overpowered on the ground.
It's not just un-noticed against borg, come under fire from a half decently specced player it's still not much though
and on the ground they kill everything before their hit, tacs just need to but alot squishier on the ground and escorts made with less hull and .like .5 or .25 shield multiplier.
engineers in pvp space cant tank because everyone just ignores the engineer in a cruiser no point in trying to kill a tank. sci powers are so bloody nerf'ed bug'ed or just pointless. a sci in space can only hold and annoy so the tac can kill on the ground sci's turn into tanks which they shouldnt they should deal holds and heals. on the ground engineers need a huge buff in tanking. as it stands now a good tanking sci can live through a super buff'ed tac blast just barely. which isnt right. and turrets are so weak they are a joke. mortars are just sometthing to keep your enemy moving they dont do much damage only thing engineers have is fuse armour, weapon malfuction, and mines. that are powerful but fuse armour and weap malfuction are easy to clear.