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State of the game from a Cisco point of view
sgtciscoinsa
Member Posts: 56 Arc User
OK...
So I am a Wow player of the past (even recent with Pandas). And most MMOs go like this.
YOu go thru missions. YOu level. You have dalies for rep grind.
You got small group dungeons to gear up.
You have bigger group raids for with your guild.
You got PVP. You have banks for your guild.
No when I am here in STO I find most of my time I am waiting for PVP (not an issue with the wait) with nothing else to do.
I do the couple "dungeons" for the rommies and maybe some for Borg. But its like having nothing but 5 dungeons to run (space).
And once you run them, what else do you do. I mean is there any good gear in there?
I am a bit lost but love this game. Community is great..product has great potential. What I dont get is why arnt they creating RAIDS and more dungeons. This model works well and gives us alot to do.
So I am a Wow player of the past (even recent with Pandas). And most MMOs go like this.
YOu go thru missions. YOu level. You have dalies for rep grind.
You got small group dungeons to gear up.
You have bigger group raids for with your guild.
You got PVP. You have banks for your guild.
No when I am here in STO I find most of my time I am waiting for PVP (not an issue with the wait) with nothing else to do.
I do the couple "dungeons" for the rommies and maybe some for Borg. But its like having nothing but 5 dungeons to run (space).
And once you run them, what else do you do. I mean is there any good gear in there?
I am a bit lost but love this game. Community is great..product has great potential. What I dont get is why arnt they creating RAIDS and more dungeons. This model works well and gives us alot to do.
Post edited by sgtciscoinsa on
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WoW and Sto are too different to compare. They both have good points and both have bad points. All down to personal preference as to what play style you want.
there are no holy triads here
there is no such thing as a Goblin
we do not "raid"
I have seen a few people here in game that run carriers and they focus on healing the group which is nice, but for the most part, especially with ground instances, I rarely see people actually filling a role.
I know i purposely respecced to be more of a tanking sci in ground missions. In the STFs I generally tank the elite Borg with my Lirpa while the rest of the group deals with the lower level mobs. I can tank 4-5 borg as I can out heal their damage in an elite and in a normal, i can practically take on two groups if needed. I even keep the borg injections handy in case they try to assimilate me. I don't see many people doing things like this.
I think because we have such varying role it might be hard to create a raid that wasn't just run and gun.
I will also agree with the last poster above me about how roles are not defined.
My issue I guess is if we have better defined roles they could make an STF a bit more challenging. I dont want a random FPS. Thats not a MMO (World of TANKS). Its a FPS that alot of people play.
We can get into definitions but I dont really want to do that. What I want to do is have a challenging time with my character. I want to strive for greatness with my TAC or ENG. I want to be proud of a Fleet accomplishment by taking down a Borg Armada that requires some dancing (strats) to accomplish. Not just mindless smashing of the keyboard. Why be sci or eng? Why not just get a bunch of escorts TACs and blow thru stuff. See my point? This is game design standards that I didnt come up with, but the industry did. I think with the recent changes we are going that direction. I just curious on what their visions is for the future and how close my exceptions will be accomplished.
I like story line as well. I think STO is doing good and getting better in that.
I dont need goblins, I need Rommies. Are my expectations wrong? I mean what are we doing except running around in circles. I want to do more.
this
I've been a vivid WOW player some years ago, and i'Ve done the raids in all 3 roles.. taking me 5 and more hours sometimes.. once or twice a week only
ehm, NO, thank you.. i've grown a bit.. and don't find it fun anymore to jump in circles around a boss with a very foreseeable strategy, waiting for 24 people to get it right.
Star Trek (even Online) is something else, it is a DREAM of a franchise. I think there would be players around if this was FOUNDRY only game, without any raids, dungeons and PVP.
And the OP is right, this game has a huge amount of WASTED POTENTIAL, cause it COULD be epic, the engine is VERY good for it.. But, as always, money and the right people in power of a preferably full wallet is the issue.
Because most people playing STO don't want 10+ person raids and the like.
In fact most MMO's have done away with the whole concept of raiding. WoW is perhaps the only MMO out there right now that still has raids. Yes it's the largest but even in WoW most people don't bother doing the raids. So adding raids into STO will not cause a huge increase in subscribers or even free players.
And perhaps not, now that we are guessing what's out there
There'd be good and bad things about having raids yet as with everything else it would depend on how it's implemented.
While there are some 20 man maps, the core maps remain 5 players which yeah does seem off when you are in a huge fleet.
STF rewards pre season 7 were raid level so you could say what raiding we had is gone.
I think what STO is doing is removing elitism in various ways so everyone can play and so the idea of harder maps that require a huge group to play well that gets exclusive gear, even passive stats, is just highly unlikely.
I disagree, lots of people I know would love to have classic MMO raids. As long as it had a purpose and that it wouldn't be repetitive like we have with STFs and Fleet Actions.
And these Raid Events would bring people closer together and socialize, which is a ton better for the community than these instant gratification queues, where most of the time all you get out of a team is a "GG".
I agree with the OP, that this game needs more dungeons and raids with lots more different types of gear. If the holy trinity or any roles are gone, its because the Devs made missions where there are none. In all honesty, we dont need a healer or a tanker because DPS does it all fast and with a very basic strategy.
I would love to see gear sets attuned to Science, Engineer, and Tactical trees.
However, you have to be careful not to compare apples to oranges. Star Trek Online doesn't necessarily fit in with any model TRIBBLE. For example, in TNG and other series, there could be a small away mission (consisting usually of about 4-6 members of the ship going on some exploratory or diplomatic mission and more akin to STO singleplayer away missions). However, there were also those episodes were there were massive battles such as wolf 359 in TNG or even some epsides in DS9 where sisko and company have to help a federation outpost defend against jem'hadar raiding parties (akin to STO's fleet actions, STF's, or its PVP).
IMO, we do need more content that fits somewhere in between 40 players and 4-6 players. It would be nice if on special occasions, like during holidays, Cryptic opened up special 20-30 player PVP/STF instances. And if these proved to be successful, then they could be adopted into the game permanently. Don't get me wrong; I love fighting snowmen but it does get a little dry after the 200th slain snow overlord.
And lots of people would hate them, and consider them a epic waste of resources. So you really don't have much of a point there. I'm sure I could find a number of people who believe the best thing you could do to STO is add in Wookies and Lightsabers...
Large raids don't really do much for socialization. The bulk of the raids I've seen in WoW had next to no chatting going on other then instructions and people getting upset when it went bad.
Actually, the mechanic of 'keeping player interest' in this MMO is no different from WoW's and works about as well (and I speak as a person that played in hard core raiding guilds in both EQ and WoW for years; and had a lot of TOV in EQ on farm status; had MC and Ragnaros on farm status and was on the third BWL dragon when the BC expansion hit) as the systems that keep people playing EQ back in the day, and WoW now.
It's NOT the rRaid content and grind thatr keeps people playing in those setups; it's the comradery built up with your Guioldmates and other friends you make and group with in game. (That's what kept me playing both EQ and WoW two years beyond what I would have played if not for this) Even in STO, after 3+ years (including the original closed beta that started for me in October 2009); if not for the friends and Fleetmates I enjoying doing content with; I doubt I'd be still be playing STO as much as I am (although to b fair, I'm a big Star Trek fan, and that in itself draws me to STO more than anything EQ had, or WoW has now.)
Truth be told what finally killed both games for me WAS the constant Raid and re-raid/ re-gear to progress (and I hear they've REALLY simplified; and taken a lot OUT of WoW mechanics wise since I last really played it hard core) probably did over 100 runs of TOV for EQ and 200+ runs on Onyxia; 100+ runs of MC and the various 20 man instances; and about 30 runs on BWL (only the last 5 or so I attended trying to get that third dragon down.) before even my friends and Guild there couldn't keep me interested uin playing further.
But, my point: What keeps most players playing regardless of the gear grind, repeatable dailies and other content is the friends you made in game that you enjoy leveling and progressing with. Although I do think that beyond T3, the Starbase Grind gets really bogged down; the idea is sound in that it's something a group of friends can do in common to see progress and work towards a goal.
One of the reasons I think SWToR died out was the fact their Raid content wasn't really good or all that challenging; and they really had nothing else in that game to foster playing with your friends (Hell, in groups you would often NOT see the cutscene for the choice uyou personally made unless you won the roll <--- and that alone did a lot to discourage group play and the forming of group/guild friendships in that game - and thus there was no real reason or advantage to joining a Guild in that game.)
That said, I'd love to see a real piece of 'Raid Style' content in STO - but after the attempt to make STFs that type of content failed - and they're gone for group content that gives the small but quick reward (and have built a playerbase in general that seems to prefer that paradigm; and further the fact that NO Cryptic game (CoX tried with Hamidon; but in the end, it was somethijng they never further iterated on much) has really done true 'Raid style' content successfully to fdate; I don't think we'll see that - well see more quick/repeatable 5/20 main 'Events' that dole out the quick rewards/Rep system/Starbase currency.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
you just got new group content a month ago.
this is not a multi-million funded game, but a niche game, F2P. Be happy or go play with elves..
An STF for 15/20 people or something; subgroups of five each doing a particular STF-like requirement for the completion of the whole.. I don't really know how to explain it
Say, an evacuation from a planet. Each group is five people.
Group A blockades an enemy transwarp conduit that spawns big, nasty boss ships that head towards the convoy (like probe-stopping on Khitomer Accord).
Groups B and C try to destroy the conduit before something horrid like a Borg Octahedron spawns (like Infected).
Group D defends the good guy's transwarp conduit (like Cure and defending the Kang... but harder
But all in the same STF.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
On a tangent, I'm commonly against just dropping the GG. So impersonal and empty, makes me think some have it bound to their keys to leave a map...if that were possible.
Rather fond of telling folks 'Well met' at the start, or 'Good hunting' or Qapla' at the end, particularly on KDF characters. Those who haven't already left the map by the time I can type it out, that is.
Though more on topic..wouldn't Crystalline Calamity count as a raid? We saw how that early experiment was received by the majority of STO players.
The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010
"Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"
It's just a fundamental difference in the average players expectations of an MMO. I'm the same way you are, I want challenging content that requires multiple people working together in interesting and varied ways.
This community, by the large, is not like that. They intensely dislike being challenged, they seem to have a disdain for understanding and applying game mechanics, if they fail at something, they always blame it on someone else (it was the rainbow boat!) and they have no real interest in any long term character development.
Is basically lots of casual startrek fans flying around in spaceships and dressing up like Orion tramps while mouse clicking skills and complaining about one shots that only happen if your doing something wrong(Ie STOs version of standing in the fire). Lots of people dig it that way, and there's really not much to be done about it.
And what we do here? Once you have the best gear.. what do we do? Play 1000 times the same STF? Or maybe play for one million times the same PVP map?
What do we do here in this game?
Good example, people don’t like to play a completely bugged mission, so yes, we all hate raids...
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
I sense sarcasm. Let me elaborate.
The final incarnation of CC wasn't unbeatable. It was bugged, but not unbeatable. There were walkthroughs on how to beat it which I and friends of mine did not seriously take advantage of because attempting to pug CC at the time and going in with enough randos to make a difference only resulted in frustration. But I'm pretty sure others managed to beat it.
What I was getting at is that STO's community by and large is not all that geared towards multi-layered mass-player strategic battles out of the gate. Some of the less-calculating players kind of attacked CC as being too hard, not good in pugs, and so on..arguments which have some measure of truth but which were often just frustrated exaggerations by people too absorbed with trying to out-DPS everything.
Raids like CC are risky. Cryptic tried them earlier on and found they got mixed-to-negative responses to them, not helped by the fact that they were buggy, unbalanced, and Cryptic had to throw it through several revamps and iterations before finally pulling it (I still remember the version of timed spawn-in gang-raep on the Entity with twenty ships all sitting, facing the spawn of the Entity, firing all buffs together and utterly murdering it.. fun the first two times, but hardly any kind of challenge).
If Cryptic's ever going to do something like that again, they've got to overcome the shadow of the Catastrophe.
The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010
"Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"