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Are Klingons really that tough
fedman70
Member Posts: 150 Arc User
I mean in any Trek series. They only seemed to act tough to me. I mean, how many times did we see Worf get thrown around in TNG (Michael Dorn actually complained that he was being portrayed as a wimp!)
Feats of Strength? Roga Danar physically overcame Worf, so did Riker in an episode
Resilent- with multiple organ backups? Usually they would be killed like anyone else, like in ST6, way of the warrior etc. They never seemed that impressive to me
Feats of Strength? Roga Danar physically overcame Worf, so did Riker in an episode
Resilent- with multiple organ backups? Usually they would be killed like anyone else, like in ST6, way of the warrior etc. They never seemed that impressive to me
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Firstly he grew up raised by humans
in the wrong gravity ,eating the wrong food and believing in the wrong ideals
KOR would have torn his arms off
When did Riker overcome Worf? Besides which, klingons weren't all that physically superior to humans. They're not like vulcans, and were never established as being much, much stronger.
Just because they're resilient in some ways doesn't mean they evolved to have resilience to rayguns.
Klingons are supposed to be genetically, naturally stronger than Vulcans, who are supposed to be 3 times as strong as humans (DS9: Take me out to the Holosuite)
No that's not the line at all. Sisko says that vulcans are faster and stronger than humans, bajorans and ferengi - then points to Worf and Bashir as the only exceptions. The only exceptions to what though? Faster or stronger? Or both? He doesn't specify. He doesn't say klingons are stronger or faster than vulcans, only implying they might be equivalent in one or both of those areas.
But c'mon, take one look at Bashir and another at Worf and tell me they both have equivalent strength.
Your basic Klingon is tougher and harder to kill (hand to hand) than a human or even a Vulcan
The Vulcan is stronger and has better reflexes (in 1 G gravity)
However the Klingon is more angry , better trained and able to kill
Vulcans are revolted by violence especially if they are the one commiting it
Of course the average Vulcan is also slightly more intelligent than the average TNG Klingon
Original series Klingons are smarter than TNG Klingons and of course better dressed
Of course the most dangerous character in DS9 is actually ODO he is a perfect combatant and as long as no phasers were involved could kill Everyone
His brain was genetically engineered because he had a developmental disorder. That doesn't mean he's suddenly Superman. He's only physically superior in terms of hand-eye coordination (beating Miles at darts) and reflexes (which is where the aforementioned 'Take Me Out To The Holosuite' becomes relevant).
Klingons are the same intelligence as humans for the most part but physically they have a anatomy more designed to survive thier natural enviroment which was rather harsh and had fierce natural predators hence the laced ribs, cranial plates and many redundencies in vital systems.
How else did he survive the spinal surgery that near killed him if not in part due to his klingon phsyiology.
As well klingon have enhanced adrenal organ so to speak and that is what gives them tjier violent demeanor and ability to "push on" in physical duress.
Sadly they have had little focus on such aspects of the Klingon in the series of shows.
R.I.P
He allowed himself to be beaten to protect his secret (that he makes Khan look like Rom)
He had laced subdermal tissues , accelerated healing , superior strength and reflexes and an IQ nearly as big as his EGO
oh and Clark kent gets his clock cleaned all the time
You are making all of that up. Unless you can point out where they say he has superior strength, saying 'he let himself get beaten up' is such an TRIBBLE pull. Particularly given that in many instances, he was taken captive against his will.
His brain was tinkered with and that's where his enhancements lie. The guy is thin and wiry and can't have that much muscle mass on him.
As for Klingons, I'd say they were pretty tough but the culture is all bluster and show.
No less bluster and show than human society or any society for that matter.
R.I.P
No, watch the episode. Sisko mentions in the episode that he lost in a wrestling match to that Vulcan, and then Cassidy states "Well, what do you expect? Vulcans have three times the strength of a human" Then when they play baseball and he says that he says Worf is either faster or stronger, he's probably talking about strength, since that's what Klingons boast about
See, you're missing the point, if Worf was tough he wouldn't get beaten up so often, his wrist broken by Troi(under possession, but it was her technique, not strength that broke it), Pwed by Roga Danar, thrown around by a Borg drone, knocked out by the admiral in conspiracy, etc. When he actually fights and gets Pwned then we can say he really isn't that good. The only fights I remember him winning were against other Klingons, in combat, when he killed Duras and Gowron
It made me wonder, obviously not all of them can be warriors. We have seen some Klingons who aren't like that Klingon Lawyer, a Klingon biologist. They don't seem to really give science a priority though, like when those Klingons had to abduct Phlox because they didn't have any biologists or geneticists good enough to do it themselves.
Well, sure. But that's not the topic at hand.
How come these supposed "organ backups" don't come into play, if they were shot through the heart, the secondary heart should come online, unless an organ was damaged they didn't have a backup for, or bleeding, etc. I'm guessing they took a lot of abuse and damage evolving from the crustacean form we see in Genesis to what they are now, and thus developed those backups, but what good are they if they don't work when you need them to?
And yeah Sisko got trounced in a wrestling match, but Sisko has also boxed Jem'hadar and Klingons so I don't think the latter have the same strength as vulcans do.
You have to consider the rest of the show and the rest of the context. Hell, Kira beats up Klingons in 'Way of the Warrior' - they simply cannot be physically stronger than humans.
No it's you who is missing the point I made about confirmation bias. All your examples - all of them - show extenuating circumstances. Troi was under possession by an alien and that may well have boosted her strength (did they establish Worf's wrist was broken? Having watched that scene on youtube it certainly doesn't look broken); Roga Danar was physically augmented by his people, so he likely IS stronger than Worf; Borg drones are stronger than anyone, even Vulcans (Tuvok was man-handled by a drone in 'Scorpion') thanks to their cybernetic implants; the parasitic beings in 'Conspiracy' boosted the bodies they were in. In other words the dice were loaded against Worf in those examples.
Worf's beaten up other klingons but he's also beaten up Jem'hadar, Romulans and other dudes. Jem'hadar are implied to be pretty strong, so go figure.
How come you are missing my point? That klingons did not evolve any resilience to rayguns. Bringing this up is irrelevant - they have organ backups but that's not going to save them from being vaporised by a disruptor, or stunned by a phaser.
On the other hand in 'Ethics' we see that those organ backups saved Worf's life when he otherwise would have died without them.
I felt it needed be said since it didn't address the topic at hand and lest this thread turn into a Bash the KDF instead of a discussion wether the KDF is tough thread.
R.I.P
Read the Gorkon series of books by Kieth R. A. Candido to learn a great deal about the Klingon culture both within the warriors ranks, the Actors Guild and farm life on a farming world in the Empire.
Learn that while we differ we are also not that dissimiliar.
R.I.P
Put it this way if I were storming DS9 I would terminate him second (after odo)
then incapacitate Kira as the next most dangerous
THEN worf
It saved Worfs life in the episode Ethics when his system spontaneously came back online after he died.
R.I.P
they are all meant to be this powerful warrior race and they are all highly trained in hand to hand combat and yet they do get their butts kicked a lot.
Due to his genetic enhancements Julian, in many ways, possessed a superior physiology to other Humans. His intellect was the most obvious example of this, as he was able to perform complex computations faster than a computer and his recall was almost absolute. This also made him one of a few humans who could play Tongo on a Ferengi level, and go to the point that he could beat several experienced Ferengi after a few games. (DS9: "A Time to Stand", "Rocks and Shoals", "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges", "Extreme Measures", "Change of Heart")
Physically he was also enhanced, although his physical abilities are mostly less remarkable. His hand-eye coordination is greatly enhanced to the point where he can hit the smallest part of a dart board with ease at over eight feet (DS9: "Doctor Bashir, I Presume", "Extreme Measures"), his hearing is also enhanced beyond that of a normal human (DS9: "Statistical Probabilities"), and his reflexes are closer to a Vulcan. (DS9: "Take Me Out to the Holosuite")
He also has limited control of his vital signs, although he loses control if significantly weakened. (DS9: "Extreme Measures")
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
Danar was genetically enhanced, so would have had comparable, if not greater strength to a Klingon...
Riker would have had combat training which would have allowed him to overcome Worf's greater strength (like any trained martial artist can overcome a larger, stronger opponent)
Vulcans were stronger than Klingons (Note how easily Spock flung the Klingon on Genesis, when his age would've been late teens/early twenties...
Personally, I think Klingons were punked by plot requirements, especially in The Way of the Warrior, although O'Brien did get his TRIBBLE handed to him by a Klingon...
Now, I wouldn't go up to a Klingon in a bar and tell him that I'd banged his sister like a drum, but equally, if one was to get up in my face, I wouldn't back down and run away from them...
Oddly that might make him like you
"AH my new Brother in law come let us drink bloodwine and mock the feeble romulan at the juke box"
I think the Klingon would know that I was dishonoring his sister, not joining his house
Seriously, hasn't anyone here been to TV Tropes?
He got driven insane when he looked at the Medusan ambassador, and 'Nancy Crater' smacked him around like a rag doll. I'm sure there was more....
Part of why Worf got beat up was that he was tough enough to take it, unlike some of his team mates.
IRL being a warrior means knowing that somewhere out there is someone who can beat you.
My character Tsin'xing
Or as we used to say back home "The Warriors Heart Burns but he must not let it burn OUT"