Just the same drop that happens every season after the newness of a new season wears off. There is always a surge right before and during, and then a drop a week or two after
Its not the same drop. Lots of the people I noticed are fleetmates and friends that I have known for quite some time. They used to play damn near every day, and for hours and hours at a time. Now some of them don't even log in every day and when they do its for 1/4 to 1/3 of the time they used to.
There is almost 0 incentive for them to play most of thier characters. Do 1 STF and the Tae Dewa patrol daily and that character is good for about 2 days. No other reason to play those characters because there is nothing they can gain to improve thier characters.
I am in the same boat. Hell the main reason I used to play STF's was for the random borg items to collect and turn in that dropped at the end. I have had my primarly weapon sets and gear for some time. I liked trying to get alternate weapon set types for all of my character, fill out all my other ships I like to get into with them so I did not have to transfer the gear, or help fleet mates gear out thier characters.
That is all gone now. Hell, there is almost 0 reason other then the Tier passives you can get to even do Omega Rep for me. If you don't like plasma weapons (which I actually do btw) its damn near the same for Romulan Rep as it is for the Omega.
I still get on an play (admittedly not the same amount of time as in the previous Seasons) but the grind feels like I have a second job, and the reward for it is.. well.. yeah.. umm..... I think its there somewhere over the horizon or in that collapsing stars center maybe.
Twilight, Particle Physicist that stole the ship.
Original Signup date: August 4, 2008
LTS since Pre-Order
I think their is a major problem with the entire philosophy of the new content that boils down to the player not feeling very 'rewarded' for their effort. The old STFs gave amazing rewards both for a long term grind (EDCs) and instant gratification (loot drops) and even helped get you closer to your refining cap of purple rock.
Compare that to all the latest content. STFs no longer drop loot bags with sweet purple Mk XIIs instead you get a single green TRIBBLE drop from the end boss.
Fleet Mark content always sucked reward wise the only reason we put up with it was because it was a very minor part of your daily activity usually.
The Romulan Mark content gives what, ten or twenty marks and a single digit fleet mark reward. Doff missions have better payout.
The old Fleet Actions I think are the most lively queue events and the reason is simple, decent rewards.
A grind is all well and good but a player needs that instant gratification reward AND needs to feel like they are making progress not trending water. Right now the mentality is we need to keep up with the time gates and let the rest burn at best. I'm not going to sit here and bludgeon the time gate with the 'really stupid idea' dead horse stick instead I'll focus on rewards.
- EVERY SINGLE QUEUE EVENT NEEDS TO HAVE A PURPLE ROCK REWARD NO MATTER WHAT. We like purple rocks.
- Fleet Marks need to be easier to earn.
- Every event needs an 'instant gratification' reward loot bag. I don't care if it is tied to an optional or even if the loot is flavored. Would anyone complain if a loot bag of say 1-3 white doffs dropped for each player in a Fleet Mark event? Or even a bag with 20k EC worth of commodities? WE LIKE RANDOM PRIZES
Bold and caps the important bits. And cryptic, hire a Sociologist or Psychologist be the best freaking move you ever made. Even a captainoblivous would see that as a good idea
THIS
Big time.
I am done gathering marks and stuff i can't immediately put to good use or trade for something i need.
Sorry but the excitement of getting good loot is gone and it shows in the queues ( why you think they removed queue numbers? ) . they knew damn well most STF queues would become ghost towns.
It is crazy, last night i wait over 10 minutes just to start an ISE! Never saw that before. And queuing for Ground mission is a waste of time. Empty, it is empty!
Tired waiting for something exciting happening. Gone playing XCOM a bit and i will check later on my DOFF missions but that is all. Hell with the Rep system! It is a waste.
if an average player has 3 hours a day to play the game, it SHOULD be possible to finish teh daily grind for 1 toon in 2 hours.
what is a daily grind?
- 8000 dill
- 100 romulan marks
- 100 omega marks
- 100 fleet marks
- setting the DOFF's
the last, 3rd hour should be optional and just for fun, or for alts.
problems:
- to reach 8000 dill takes an average player 4.5 hours
- to reach 100 fleet marks seems to be impossible (cryptic, this is VITAL = give us FREE 50 marks for a daily log-in)
- the omega marks are fine
- the romulan marks rate for fleet actions and ground missions should be increased
- DOFF'S are ok
what can i do in 2 hours?
- DOFF's - 15 minutes (average 2500 DILL earned)
- romulan patrol daily - 30 minutes (60 romulan marks)
- 2 STF's - 2000 dill, 120 omega marks, 40 minutes sometimes more when doing the ground ones or PUGging
- 10 minutes clicking the rewards for fleet and reputation system
- 5 minutes to say hello to fleet
we are at 1:45 hours now, have 4k dill, 60 romulan marks, enough omega marks and got NO fleet marks.. so you queue a fleet action rewarding fleet marks, you do one run, get some 17 to 27 fleet marks..
facts are facts.
fact 1
6 toons spent at least half an hour on each per day pre 7 2 hours on 1 toon after.
fact 2
12-30k delithium per day over the 6 toons pre 7 after i have made less than 8k since total.
fact 3
fleet vent on my days off evenings had 6-18 on it pre 7 after droped to max of 6.
Personally to fix this is make all non elite queue give 500 dilithium and 10 fleet marks plus chance at loot/random mark bags drop by enemies and give their normal mark rewards.
Elites should be 1k dilithium 25 fleet marks and 50+ omega or whatever the reward mark is. Add a loot bag that gives random gear plus marks/borg thingy in it. Add more loot/random mark drops.
officer reports limited time thing is kinda rediculous you yourself dahl said that not many get close to the limit so killing off that way for them to get the 1400 dilithium was oposite of what you said you wanted. Change it back to theway it was. You still have the 8k refine limit.
Baring all this get rid of all requirements for dilithium use for star base/embasy since we now have to spend 50 times the amount to get our gear. to get a full set of weapons for an escort will take over 2 weeks if you happen to make the 8 k dilithium a day per toon.
if an average player has 3 hours a day to play the game, it SHOULD be possible to finish teh daily grind for 1 toon in 2 hours.
what is a daily grind?
- 8000 dill
- 100 romulan marks
- 100 omega marks
- 100 fleet marks
- setting the DOFF's
((((the last, 3rd hour should be optional and just for fun, or for alts. ))))
problems:
- to reach 8000 dill takes an average player 4.5 hours
- to reach 100 fleet marks seems to be impossible (cryptic, this is VITAL = give us FREE 50 marks for a daily log-in)
- the omega marks are fine
- the romulan marks rate for fleet actions and ground missions should be increased
- DOFF'S are ok
what can i do in 2 hours?
- DOFF's - 15 minutes (average 2500 DILL earned)
- romulan patrol daily - 30 minutes (60 romulan marks)
- 2 STF's - 2000 dill, 120 omega marks, 40 minutes sometimes more when doing the ground ones or PUGging
- 10 minutes clicking the rewards for fleet and reputation system
- 5 minutes to say hello to fleet
we are at 1:45 hours now, have 4k dill, 60 romulan marks, enough omega marks and got NO fleet marks.. so you queue a fleet action rewarding fleet marks, you do one run, get some 17 to 27 fleet marks..
you see the problem?
I outlined the whole problem in your post - the WHOLE 3 hours should be fun - that IS the problem!
I outlined the whole problem in your post - the WHOLE 3 hours should be fun - that IS the problem!
hmmm, you CAN play the game 100% of the time how you want..
some consider STF's fun, some foundry, some grinding fleet actions with their fleet friends..
some even have fun grinding Defera..
what i did in that post wast outlining the most efficient way an average player would take THROUGH all the content - to show that it is not possible to get to the daily limit within 2 hours of playing time (for an average player).
I haven't logged in at all since S7, actually a tad bit before. But then again, I don't pay money so it doesn't matter anyway
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I outlined the whole problem in your post - the WHOLE 3 hours should be fun - that IS the problem!
Fun?! Whaddayah think this is? A game!? E- willies are in danger of being less purple! Hats may never see a head! Fake markets won't be manipulated! Money might be spent!
I've actually been on less, due to new duties at work causing me to come home later, and I am still making between 3500-4500/dil day.
No, I don't have time to do it for all three of my toons, but it's pretty easy work - mostly DOff missions. Turn in contraband, settlement missions, have mostly purple doffs so crit quite a bit not hard to get 125DIL for multiple missions.
Run a few Red Alerts get DIL and Omega Marks (been actually concentrating on those lately anyway since I'm trying to get all the acolades for some reason).
Regardless, point being for the amount of time I actually play, I make a pretty good chunk of DIL.
YMMV, obviously.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
500 years in the future and we still look like schmucks when getting our ID photos taken...
2) There is no reason for me to log now, I did grind 25-30 toons thru the daily Investigate's for the dil and marks to work on fleet stuff ..... not now.
What? Your only reason to log in before S7 was the daily's? For a starbase that does just grant some small upgrades to your weapons/ships?That's not playing, that's mindless grinding.
You should be glad that the devs removed this daily. Now you have more time for your friends/partner/family/games.
Steam and GGO have some nice discounts on games with actual content xD
I stopped doing the STF's all the time. I don't care that much about dilithium because my kling generates enough contraband for my 3 chars. Thats 6.0000 Dill a day. 3xLore missions and other doff missions and I am over 10.000 most days.
I finally have time for the foundry and I finished the storymissions on my first char :-)
I also couldn't notice a drop in user activity. Au contraire. Waiting time for STF is the same as before, Fleetactions are a lot faster. I stopped Pvp after 2 days because of the AFK'ers, *******s and loser klings in it. And the waiting for the PvP queues was to long.
So far, I do not dislike S7 xD It has a little more content than S6. It is more geared to the casual gamer. The artists did a great job on the vesta (I don't care about the stats and abilitys) and New Romulus.
Cryptic added a lot of incentives for the stupid ones to buy dill with Zen so that I can play for free. I like that :-)
Can't wait for the updates on S8. Hopefully we get more content this time. 2 seasons adding grind was enough. PWE should get now enough money that they allow Cryptic to create more real content.
Here lately I dread logging in. It just seems like work. Sometimes I just say "I will play later" and just put it off and not even play at all.
This is the problem. Ease one of the grinds even temporarily and things will make a major improvement. If I want to progress my 4 main characters in the ROM rep I am looking at either doing a rediculous diplomacy mission 28 times, or spending a few hours blowing up enemies who appear in identical patterns over and over and are so weak it's pathetic.
That chunk of time is time i'm not earning Dilithium, OM's or FM's (or having fun). Remove one of the grinds (even temporarily) and it'll go a long way to help resolve the issue.
Its not the same drop. Lots of the people I noticed are fleetmates and friends that I have known for quite some time. They used to play damn near every day, and for hours and hours at a time. Now some of them don't even log in every day and when they do its for 1/4 to 1/3 of the time they used to.
.
Yes it is. Your trying to make something out of nothing, because perception is everything; and you have worked your brain up to perceive a negative connotation associated with season 7. All the major public channels have approximately the same amount of users they have had for the past couple months, minus the surge right at the launch of season 7
This is the problem. Ease one of the grinds even temporarily and things will make a major improvement. If I want to progress my 4 main characters in the ROM rep I am looking at either doing a rediculous diplomacy mission 28 times, or spending a few hours blowing up enemies who appear in identical patterns over and over and are so weak it's pathetic.
That chunk of time is time i'm not earning Dilithium, OM's or FM's (or having fun). Remove one of the grinds (even temporarily) and it'll go a long way to help resolve the issue.
And with the playersbase asked reduction on the timer for the projects, the grind is just getting worse -.- IF you want to complete them in the fastest possible way.
Fire somebody .
Or two somebodies .
The somebodies who are actually responsible , and not scape goats .
Make the other workers take notice and go "oh S^&*t , I could be next" .
The art team is fine , the rest could really use a shake up .
And stop thinking "what works in other games must works 4 STO" .
Bring in someone who can objectively look at what has worked for STO -- instead of the constant ego-driven circus that we have to contend with in the end .
Oh and a little less "we MUST try new things" (at the cost of abandoning the old and half finished) would be nice too .
Originally Posted by monsterofblood :
I am happy to report that we've gain 100 new members since s7 because we have the highest level KDF base all the members of losers fleets are bailing out for us, thnk you season seven.
^ and that attitude is one of the reasons why large fleets suck tribble.
While small fleets seem to "miss the obvious" in that if they join a larger fleet together -- as a group , then maybe they can keep the 'spirit' of their small fleet alive inside the large fleet .
Not all large fleets require you to "ware the fleet uniform and do what we do" .
As long as you are willing to contribute to projects (and are not leeching) , I think there are fleets who would leave you be who you are now .
I know my fleet would .
(apologies if this sounds like a recruitment post . it's not intended as such .:))
While small fleets seem to "miss the obvious" in that if they join a larger fleet together -- as a group , then maybe they can keep the 'spirit' of their small fleet alive inside the large fleet .
LOL, oh man, that's a funny one. And completely wrong. That the devs are trying very hard to force this, is also completely wrong.
I log in daily still, but for fewer hours on average compared to S6. The hours I am on are often idle.
I spend more time Doffing now than anything, it is the only way to get fleet marks, which the fleet just can't get by grinding or working as a fleet anymore.. ya, great design decision there.
My guess is the fleet logs on a lot less because of the same issues, they can't really achieve anything, can't max out dilithium, can't put in a serious dent into fleet marks.. so if you can't achieve something, why are you playing? Despair is a huge factor right now.
I don't like the trash-compactor style advancement for Fleet and Reputation. It goes like this:
Day 1
You log in.
You stuff resources into a project.
You log out. Day 2
You log in.
You stuff resources into a project.
You log out. Day 3
You log in.
You stuff resources into a project.
You log out. Day 4
You log in.
You stuff resources into a project.
You log out.
.... And on and on and ON AND ON like that until you just get sick and tired of it. You funnel all of your credits into buying resources for projects, and you spend all of your time playing the same fleet missions over and over again to get fleet marks to spend on projects. And then you either have to spend credits on dilithium or grind it yourself on top of that... It's grating. I don't think any normal human being could possibly enjoy this type of game.
I want to say that I liked what they did with the Duty Officer System. It was enjoyable to fly around exploring different sectors doing DOff missions. Why? It was new, unique, and as a former Pokemon player, I wanted to collect them all. Plus there wasn't very much to lose getting DOff's except time spent playing. I liked it.
In contrast, these trash compactor systems are very un-creative and become financial and resource sink-holes. They are boring, repetitive, and end up becoming stale for everyone. On top of that, there is loss inflicted upon any fleet that tries to advance through the ranks, and I'm not sure if the recompense you get is entirely worth it. How many millions of credits have you spent on fleet projects so far? For what? Have you received tangible items that you consider worth everything you spent?
What we need is something more engaging and FUN to replace Fleet and Reputation advancement systems. It also needs to be something that doesn't incur anything except loss of time spent playing upon the player.
I kind of wonder why we can't fly to New Romulus and do some dailies for them to gain reputation with them. I don't know about you guys, but I like shooting things and blowing stuff up much more than I like stuffing a trash bin full of supplies every day.
Fleet advancement should be more involved too. How about something similar to what EVE Online did with planet management? Let us found a colony on a planet and start building some buildings. We could have buildings that produce daily amounts of Fleet Marks, or Dilithium, or offer special Duty Officer missions, creative stuff like that. I'm not saying this is an answer either, I just think its one example of something more fun, unique, and creative than using a trash compactor.
There are several issues synergizing to cause an apparent or real drop. Now this is only from my perspective, but I have also observed a drop in active players through seeing who is on from my friends list, who is on in the fleets I am in, and queue times. In talking with many of my friends and regularly surfing the forums, these six issues are outstanding.
The first issue is the general dissatisfaction of Season 7. Each seasonal release brings new content and systems. The unfortunate thing is the new system is now a third Facebook Style system. The DOFF System was perfect for this type of set-up and hit it well. The Fleet System, well a second type was fine because it balanced the DOFF system ? you had a system to generate resources and a system to serve as a sink. Now using this for sole basis of the Reputation System is where many are having issues. The Rep System serves as a personal resource sink but with a third grind attached to it.
The second issue is the launch/re-launch/beta of a few additional titles. There is now a F2P MMOFPS just recently launched, a major themepark MMO recently went F2P, and a third game in beta with better PvP. Many people I personally know have migrated to one of those three games. The migration was heightened by the dissatisfaction with S7 and last minute changes to the games economics. People will migrate and try out new things in their quest to have fun. Some may return, some will not, and some will migrate again. That is just how it goes with games.
The third issue is the tedium of the grinds placed before the playerbase and the limited avenues of rewarding gameplay. I will say that Cryptic has held to its word that the initial season launch will mainly be system oriented. However, inter-season bug fixes and content deployment has been sorely lacking. Take the Fleet System for example, there have been no ?new? fleet events since the launch of S6 and we are stuck grinding the same few missions. Additionally, no new DOFF expansions or chains since the launch of the last FE. The DOFF system has received some attention, but that has been overshadowed by the nerfs and taxes added to it. The STFs did at least get two new missions and we did get a new adventure zone, but this still leads to the fourth issue.
The fourth issue is that players do not feel that all types of content in game are equally rewarding for the time invested. Although the Reputation System does offer somewhat more diversity in how to grind than the Fleet System, both suffer from a limited amount of content that must be highly repeated. Exploration does not feel very rewarding since the launch to F2P, crafting has never felt very rewarding and was made worse with the launch to F2P, I can go on and on with other systems. The bottom line is that players are feeling the pressure of being forced into types of gameplay they may or may not like.
The fifth issue is the heavy monetization of the game. It is obvious to everyone Cryptic needs to keep the lights on and needs to pay the bills, this is understood by the playerbase. The constant sales, promotions, lock-boxes, and items to purchase are omnipresent. However, the main tactics used (especially the push for zen ? dilithium conversions) are being seen dissatisfactory by the playerbase. Take the fleet ships (especially the Klingon ones), after heavy grinding through a heavily monetized system, the end product is also heavily monetized and very marginally improved. This leads to a lack-of-value feeling. Now each player is going to have a different perspective on what they feel is ?value? for their dollar but overwhelmingly on the forums here the overall feeling is quite obvious.
The final issue is that many people are just tired of waiting. STO has suffered greatly since launch for a great lack of diversity. The current dev team has been trying hard (and doing admirably) of trying to play catch-up since. A transition to new ownership and to a F2P model has not helped the growth of this game. The lack of progress on some long-standing gameplay issues with STO (PvP, Exploration, Crafting, Klingon Content, Foundry Integration) is apparent. The development of this game now suffers from the rapid push of systems and content to meet these demands then the subsequent lack of polish and testing time further dissuades many. Now approaching its middle-age (yes three years is middle age for an MMO), many people are simply giving up.
I feel for the dev team, they have the heart but seems they have had an uphill battle with STO since launch. I am highly critical of the game, but still play and still somewhat enjoy the game, simply because I am a Star Trek fan. I?ll probably always play the game whether it is my primary or not, but I can say that if I feel something more enjoyable comes along, my time in game would drop.
I want you to inform that with these last changes you did in season 7, lots of players turned into 2 click mode. Players come online, say hi and leave, or go at exchange and do ferengi business.
Talking with them, I found they are disappointed, there is no dilithium where to gather. Starbase projects didnt moved from the day season 7 started. Smaller fleets loose their members, moving to bigger fleets who already have tier IV. Embassy projects are at beginning, same reason, no dilithium.
One thing left to do is trading at the market.. and that is boring.
I hope you dont like to turn STO into 2 click game per day for the daily missions, and after a period all gamers to leave.
Also i hope you dont want to exist only 1-2 fleets where all players that will stay in the game will be togheter.
Fix the game and take the game out from the depression.
2011 was the content depression
2012 is turning out to be the Dilithium Depression
That statement is painfully true. I can only hope that the upcoming ability to convert Marks into Dilithium makes this all worthwhile, or I can't see myself having much reason to log on.
Cryptic, please make the conversion of Marks give a high enough amount of Dilithium to give me reason to keep playing.
_____________________________________________________
Original Username - njdss4 - Original Join Date - July 28, 2008 (Official Forum Launch Date)
I don't really get where players on these forums are getting the inactivity claims. PvP is 10x more active than it was pre-season seven. There have been literally no changes in the queue timing for STFs and other PvE content. I have seen absolutely no drop in the number of players logging on friends list since season seven launch. The addition of marks and dilithium to fleet actions has significantly helped my ~45 member fleet. As for all of these "increased grind claims", everything needed to update the fleet starbase can be obtained through the duty officer system (marks, dilithium, EC, commodities). It is just a matter of how fast a base progresses through using just the doff system. The only added "grind" is the fact that you have to run 1 STF (15 minutes) and 2 vault shuttle events (10 minutes) a day in order to meet your mark quota to keep the XP projects rolling.
If a player wants to max their dilithium, all they really need to do is 9-15 PvP matches (1 - 4 hours, depends on how well matched the teams are) or 6-7 Elite STFs (1 hour 45 minutes - 3 hours) or 12-16 fleet actions (2 -3 hours). That is assuming the player only earned 800 dilithium from the duty officer system that day and you are running these missions in PUG. Running these missions with fleetmates will shave off an hour or so. Ths also doesn't even go into the fairly quick daily missions in Deferi Space, Starfleet academy, explore strange new worlds, or the Eta Eridani Sector block.
The duty officer system can be a sole source of dilithium. You may not hit the cap every day, but you will come close. I usually get around 4000-7000 dilithium from the system if I am trying to use the reputation system for dilithium grinding. Sure, it takes time traveling throughout the galaxy picking up specific projects (about 45 minutes) and hoping for a crit, but it can be worth it. The projects are certainly a nice alternative if I don't feel like grinding through missions. Running the turn in contraband assignment will significantly decrease the number of missions you need to hit the cap (2000 dilithium for 5 contraband). A critical success on Dilithium Mining will result in a 1000 dilithium reward. Turning in 1 of each type of prototype weapons platform plans to "Gamma Quadrant Allies" will give 1000 dilithium on normal and 3000 dilithium on crit, along with three large stacks of gamma quadrant commodities. Resettle colonists (500 dilithium) and resolve missions also give high rewards.
So to be perfectly honest, I don't see why there is an outcry over the dilithium changes. Nor do I see where the inactivity claims currently sweeping the forums is coming from. Cryptic nerfed the hell out of the tier 0 and 1 projects to a point where I could solo them with relative ease if I wanted to. Tier II is much tougher, but even small fleets can advance quite steadily with some effort. It doesn't take dozens of players to get to tier III in a decent amount of time. That's just my two energy credits.
That statement is painfully true. I can only hope that the upcoming ability to convert Marks into Dilithium makes this all worthwhile, or I can't see myself having much reason to log on.
Cryptic, please make the conversion of Marks give a high enough amount of Dilithium to give me reason to keep playing.
Conversion rate will be 50 Marks to 500 dilithium. Elite STFs give 60 marks (75 with the optional) plus their base 960 dilithium and 1 BNP. 5 BNP = 1000 dilithium. Assuming you run STFs in groups of 5, you will earn (960*5) + 1000 + [(60*5 /50)*500] = 8800 dilithium. FIVE Elite STFs a day and you will have 8800 dilithium. And that doesn't account for the extra 75 marks you would make if you get the optional on each one. I don't know about you, but I can get through all but cure ground in 15-20 minutes. So in 100 minutes you will have more than the max cap for dilithium. I think that sounds very nice.
Causes
Dithilium grind bullying players into buying Z-points and instead just making most leave
Too much P2W
Really bad Romulan models
Too far divorced from lore
How to fix it
Hire competent devs to solve bugs and design good NPC models
Hire better lore writers who understand Trek
Hire leads who know how to manage a MMO (preferably talent from outside the industry as no one in the industry today has a credible claim to having any idea how to do so)
I look at it from both angles. On the one hand I don't like that I can't generate dilithium like I used to, but on the other hand, I like the fact that they are making the older content more viable, but I don't like the fact that the dilithium was nerfed so much in the STFs. I do like that I actually have a solid goal to work for to get Mk12 Set gear, but I don't like that it takes a whole sh*t ton of dilithium (and an obscene amount of duty officers) to get. I like the marks system. I like the reputation system. I think that instead of blasting the dilithium rewards into oblivion for STFs, why not keep the old rewards, and then try to bring up the other game content (i.e. Breen, Section 31, Cardassian, Klingon Intelligence, Dominion, etc.). Mr. Stahl said that he would like to see players specialize in certain skill sets, and he also said that more reputation systems will be added as time progresses. If they could go to back to pre season 7 dilithium rewards for STFs, but also offer the similar rewards for the other factions in a reputation system, it would diversify the player base and the skill sets. Imagine a team where you could have 5 players with the same career path, but they could have different skill sets. The Breen for example specialize in energy drain in space and freezing weapons on the ground. To keep players from going around getting specialized in every reputation skill set, set the system up where you can only have one skillset at any given time. If you have the Breen skill set and you want the Dominion skill set, then you have to give up your Breen skills and start at Tier 1 on your Dominion skills. However, if you hit tier 5 on your Dominion skills, and you decide that you liked you Breen skills better, then you shouldn't have to start all over at the beginning for the Breen reputation.
If you really want to help the dilithium exchange and really bring in some cash for new content development (or for your ferarri fund whatever floats your boat), after you run a lock box, put that grand prize at the end of Tier 5 and make it a reputation project. Take the Jem'Hadar ship (the most desired ship in the game if I'm not mistaken), it runs in a lock box for a few months, players buy master keys trying to get the grand prize, after that lock box ends, it goes up as a Tier 5 project. If you want it, you have to put up 350,000 dilithium, 1,500 Dominion marks, 200 changeling lockets, 250 unrefined ketracel white, 50 tactical duty officers, and a fleet module. Some players are going to spend their entire paychecks, or their allowances, trying to buy enough zen to either get lucky with master keys, or to convert enough zen to dilithium. The ships you acquire through the reputation project do not come in reward boxes, but are placed directly in your shipyard so you don't have a bunch of guys trying to corner the market on Jem bugs or Galors (the Lock box ships should remain the same though, this way the exchange doesn't have to suffer). You're going to have players that are going to bust their humps to get those ships, but there are others that will absolutely refuse to put in that much work, and then there are those players that will save every last piece of dilithium they have to get one of those ships.
I'm not sure how players would feel about a system like this to be honest. On the one hand it quadruples the grinding that so many hate, but on the other hand, it offers some damn good rewards for that grind. What I like the most about a system like this is that it will diversify the skills sets so much more than what the current three career paths offer. I think it will also even the playing field in PVP and bring new blood into the PVP arenas. I have all Mk12 gear (including a MACO set), and I can handle elite STFs with little to no difficulty most of the time, but I'll be honest, I tend to stay away from PVP because I get my TRIBBLE handed to me on a sliver platter by those guys that lurk in the PVP arena and spend all their time and/or money putting together that perfect PVP build, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way, but let's say that all of a sudden I have an ability derived from my Breen skill set where I can drain a significant portion of that PVP expert's energy or disables a subsystem for a certain amount of time, then I could actually have a chance against a guy like that. It would even the playing field. This coupled with having the environment play a role in combat (like asteriod collisions causing damage, or gas clouds having certain negative or positive effects, or even having enemies on the map hostile to both sides) would force the players to bring some real strategy and tactics to the PVP arena instead of focusing purely on having the best build.
Yes, these ideas would bring a hell of a lot more grind into STO, and I like many, don't always have the time or patience for grind, but it would also make the rewards for all that grinding worth while and maybe help pay for more story driven development. Some people are just impossible to make happy. You could put the lock box and c-store ships up for free to all who want them for a weekend and there would be someone complaining that it's messing up their immersion, or that the event didn't last as long as they thought it should've, but I think this would put a lot of complaints to rest and bring players who left back to the game.
That very long wall of text tries to sound reasonable but is yet another effort to bully players into buying stuff with Zen and accepting the ridiculous status quo.
Comments
Its not the same drop. Lots of the people I noticed are fleetmates and friends that I have known for quite some time. They used to play damn near every day, and for hours and hours at a time. Now some of them don't even log in every day and when they do its for 1/4 to 1/3 of the time they used to.
There is almost 0 incentive for them to play most of thier characters. Do 1 STF and the Tae Dewa patrol daily and that character is good for about 2 days. No other reason to play those characters because there is nothing they can gain to improve thier characters.
I am in the same boat. Hell the main reason I used to play STF's was for the random borg items to collect and turn in that dropped at the end. I have had my primarly weapon sets and gear for some time. I liked trying to get alternate weapon set types for all of my character, fill out all my other ships I like to get into with them so I did not have to transfer the gear, or help fleet mates gear out thier characters.
That is all gone now. Hell, there is almost 0 reason other then the Tier passives you can get to even do Omega Rep for me. If you don't like plasma weapons (which I actually do btw) its damn near the same for Romulan Rep as it is for the Omega.
I still get on an play (admittedly not the same amount of time as in the previous Seasons) but the grind feels like I have a second job, and the reward for it is.. well.. yeah.. umm..... I think its there somewhere over the horizon or in that collapsing stars center maybe.
Twilight, Particle Physicist that stole the ship.
Original Signup date: August 4, 2008
LTS since Pre-Order
THIS
Big time.
I am done gathering marks and stuff i can't immediately put to good use or trade for something i need.
Sorry but the excitement of getting good loot is gone and it shows in the queues ( why you think they removed queue numbers? ) . they knew damn well most STF queues would become ghost towns.
It is crazy, last night i wait over 10 minutes just to start an ISE! Never saw that before. And queuing for Ground mission is a waste of time. Empty, it is empty!
Tired waiting for something exciting happening. Gone playing XCOM a bit and i will check later on my DOFF missions but that is all. Hell with the Rep system! It is a waste.
if an average player has 3 hours a day to play the game, it SHOULD be possible to finish teh daily grind for 1 toon in 2 hours.
what is a daily grind?
- 8000 dill
- 100 romulan marks
- 100 omega marks
- 100 fleet marks
- setting the DOFF's
the last, 3rd hour should be optional and just for fun, or for alts.
problems:
- to reach 8000 dill takes an average player 4.5 hours
- to reach 100 fleet marks seems to be impossible (cryptic, this is VITAL = give us FREE 50 marks for a daily log-in)
- the omega marks are fine
- the romulan marks rate for fleet actions and ground missions should be increased
- DOFF'S are ok
what can i do in 2 hours?
- DOFF's - 15 minutes (average 2500 DILL earned)
- romulan patrol daily - 30 minutes (60 romulan marks)
- 2 STF's - 2000 dill, 120 omega marks, 40 minutes sometimes more when doing the ground ones or PUGging
- 10 minutes clicking the rewards for fleet and reputation system
- 5 minutes to say hello to fleet
we are at 1:45 hours now, have 4k dill, 60 romulan marks, enough omega marks and got NO fleet marks.. so you queue a fleet action rewarding fleet marks, you do one run, get some 17 to 27 fleet marks..
you see the problem?
fact 1
6 toons spent at least half an hour on each per day pre 7 2 hours on 1 toon after.
fact 2
12-30k delithium per day over the 6 toons pre 7 after i have made less than 8k since total.
fact 3
fleet vent on my days off evenings had 6-18 on it pre 7 after droped to max of 6.
Personally to fix this is make all non elite queue give 500 dilithium and 10 fleet marks plus chance at loot/random mark bags drop by enemies and give their normal mark rewards.
Elites should be 1k dilithium 25 fleet marks and 50+ omega or whatever the reward mark is. Add a loot bag that gives random gear plus marks/borg thingy in it. Add more loot/random mark drops.
officer reports limited time thing is kinda rediculous you yourself dahl said that not many get close to the limit so killing off that way for them to get the 1400 dilithium was oposite of what you said you wanted. Change it back to theway it was. You still have the 8k refine limit.
Baring all this get rid of all requirements for dilithium use for star base/embasy since we now have to spend 50 times the amount to get our gear. to get a full set of weapons for an escort will take over 2 weeks if you happen to make the 8 k dilithium a day per toon.
I outlined the whole problem in your post - the WHOLE 3 hours should be fun - that IS the problem!
hmmm, you CAN play the game 100% of the time how you want..
some consider STF's fun, some foundry, some grinding fleet actions with their fleet friends..
some even have fun grinding Defera..
what i did in that post wast outlining the most efficient way an average player would take THROUGH all the content - to show that it is not possible to get to the daily limit within 2 hours of playing time (for an average player).
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Fun?! Whaddayah think this is? A game!? E- willies are in danger of being less purple! Hats may never see a head! Fake markets won't be manipulated! Money might be spent!
Why do you want the terrorists to win?
Fun... Sheesh.
No, I don't have time to do it for all three of my toons, but it's pretty easy work - mostly DOff missions. Turn in contraband, settlement missions, have mostly purple doffs so crit quite a bit not hard to get 125DIL for multiple missions.
Run a few Red Alerts get DIL and Omega Marks (been actually concentrating on those lately anyway since I'm trying to get all the acolades for some reason).
Regardless, point being for the amount of time I actually play, I make a pretty good chunk of DIL.
YMMV, obviously.
500 years in the future and we still look like schmucks when getting our ID photos taken...
What? Your only reason to log in before S7 was the daily's? For a starbase that does just grant some small upgrades to your weapons/ships?That's not playing, that's mindless grinding.
You should be glad that the devs removed this daily. Now you have more time for your friends/partner/family/games.
Steam and GGO have some nice discounts on games with actual content xD
I stopped doing the STF's all the time. I don't care that much about dilithium because my kling generates enough contraband for my 3 chars. Thats 6.0000 Dill a day. 3xLore missions and other doff missions and I am over 10.000 most days.
I finally have time for the foundry and I finished the storymissions on my first char :-)
I also couldn't notice a drop in user activity. Au contraire. Waiting time for STF is the same as before, Fleetactions are a lot faster. I stopped Pvp after 2 days because of the AFK'ers, *******s and loser klings in it. And the waiting for the PvP queues was to long.
So far, I do not dislike S7 xD It has a little more content than S6. It is more geared to the casual gamer. The artists did a great job on the vesta (I don't care about the stats and abilitys) and New Romulus.
Cryptic added a lot of incentives for the stupid ones to buy dill with Zen so that I can play for free. I like that :-)
Can't wait for the updates on S8. Hopefully we get more content this time. 2 seasons adding grind was enough. PWE should get now enough money that they allow Cryptic to create more real content.
This is the problem. Ease one of the grinds even temporarily and things will make a major improvement. If I want to progress my 4 main characters in the ROM rep I am looking at either doing a rediculous diplomacy mission 28 times, or spending a few hours blowing up enemies who appear in identical patterns over and over and are so weak it's pathetic.
That chunk of time is time i'm not earning Dilithium, OM's or FM's (or having fun). Remove one of the grinds (even temporarily) and it'll go a long way to help resolve the issue.
Yes it is. Your trying to make something out of nothing, because perception is everything; and you have worked your brain up to perceive a negative connotation associated with season 7. All the major public channels have approximately the same amount of users they have had for the past couple months, minus the surge right at the launch of season 7
And with the playersbase asked reduction on the timer for the projects, the grind is just getting worse -.- IF you want to complete them in the fastest possible way.
Fire somebody .
Or two somebodies .
The somebodies who are actually responsible , and not scape goats .
Make the other workers take notice and go "oh S^&*t , I could be next" .
The art team is fine , the rest could really use a shake up .
And stop thinking "what works in other games must works 4 STO" .
Bring in someone who can objectively look at what has worked for STO -- instead of the constant ego-driven circus that we have to contend with in the end .
Oh and a little less "we MUST try new things" (at the cost of abandoning the old and half finished) would be nice too .
While small fleets seem to "miss the obvious" in that if they join a larger fleet together -- as a group , then maybe they can keep the 'spirit' of their small fleet alive inside the large fleet .
Not all large fleets require you to "ware the fleet uniform and do what we do" .
As long as you are willing to contribute to projects (and are not leeching) , I think there are fleets who would leave you be who you are now .
I know my fleet would .
(apologies if this sounds like a recruitment post . it's not intended as such .:))
LOL, oh man, that's a funny one. And completely wrong. That the devs are trying very hard to force this, is also completely wrong.
I spend more time Doffing now than anything, it is the only way to get fleet marks, which the fleet just can't get by grinding or working as a fleet anymore.. ya, great design decision there.
My guess is the fleet logs on a lot less because of the same issues, they can't really achieve anything, can't max out dilithium, can't put in a serious dent into fleet marks.. so if you can't achieve something, why are you playing? Despair is a huge factor right now.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
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'course, I've only logged in three times since season 7 went live.
Day 1
You log in.
You stuff resources into a project.
You log out.
Day 2
You log in.
You stuff resources into a project.
You log out.
Day 3
You log in.
You stuff resources into a project.
You log out.
Day 4
You log in.
You stuff resources into a project.
You log out.
.... And on and on and ON AND ON like that until you just get sick and tired of it. You funnel all of your credits into buying resources for projects, and you spend all of your time playing the same fleet missions over and over again to get fleet marks to spend on projects. And then you either have to spend credits on dilithium or grind it yourself on top of that... It's grating. I don't think any normal human being could possibly enjoy this type of game.
I want to say that I liked what they did with the Duty Officer System. It was enjoyable to fly around exploring different sectors doing DOff missions. Why? It was new, unique, and as a former Pokemon player, I wanted to collect them all. Plus there wasn't very much to lose getting DOff's except time spent playing. I liked it.
In contrast, these trash compactor systems are very un-creative and become financial and resource sink-holes. They are boring, repetitive, and end up becoming stale for everyone. On top of that, there is loss inflicted upon any fleet that tries to advance through the ranks, and I'm not sure if the recompense you get is entirely worth it. How many millions of credits have you spent on fleet projects so far? For what? Have you received tangible items that you consider worth everything you spent?
What we need is something more engaging and FUN to replace Fleet and Reputation advancement systems. It also needs to be something that doesn't incur anything except loss of time spent playing upon the player.
I kind of wonder why we can't fly to New Romulus and do some dailies for them to gain reputation with them. I don't know about you guys, but I like shooting things and blowing stuff up much more than I like stuffing a trash bin full of supplies every day.
Fleet advancement should be more involved too. How about something similar to what EVE Online did with planet management? Let us found a colony on a planet and start building some buildings. We could have buildings that produce daily amounts of Fleet Marks, or Dilithium, or offer special Duty Officer missions, creative stuff like that. I'm not saying this is an answer either, I just think its one example of something more fun, unique, and creative than using a trash compactor.
Just my opinion.
The first issue is the general dissatisfaction of Season 7. Each seasonal release brings new content and systems. The unfortunate thing is the new system is now a third Facebook Style system. The DOFF System was perfect for this type of set-up and hit it well. The Fleet System, well a second type was fine because it balanced the DOFF system ? you had a system to generate resources and a system to serve as a sink. Now using this for sole basis of the Reputation System is where many are having issues. The Rep System serves as a personal resource sink but with a third grind attached to it.
The second issue is the launch/re-launch/beta of a few additional titles. There is now a F2P MMOFPS just recently launched, a major themepark MMO recently went F2P, and a third game in beta with better PvP. Many people I personally know have migrated to one of those three games. The migration was heightened by the dissatisfaction with S7 and last minute changes to the games economics. People will migrate and try out new things in their quest to have fun. Some may return, some will not, and some will migrate again. That is just how it goes with games.
The third issue is the tedium of the grinds placed before the playerbase and the limited avenues of rewarding gameplay. I will say that Cryptic has held to its word that the initial season launch will mainly be system oriented. However, inter-season bug fixes and content deployment has been sorely lacking. Take the Fleet System for example, there have been no ?new? fleet events since the launch of S6 and we are stuck grinding the same few missions. Additionally, no new DOFF expansions or chains since the launch of the last FE. The DOFF system has received some attention, but that has been overshadowed by the nerfs and taxes added to it. The STFs did at least get two new missions and we did get a new adventure zone, but this still leads to the fourth issue.
The fourth issue is that players do not feel that all types of content in game are equally rewarding for the time invested. Although the Reputation System does offer somewhat more diversity in how to grind than the Fleet System, both suffer from a limited amount of content that must be highly repeated. Exploration does not feel very rewarding since the launch to F2P, crafting has never felt very rewarding and was made worse with the launch to F2P, I can go on and on with other systems. The bottom line is that players are feeling the pressure of being forced into types of gameplay they may or may not like.
The fifth issue is the heavy monetization of the game. It is obvious to everyone Cryptic needs to keep the lights on and needs to pay the bills, this is understood by the playerbase. The constant sales, promotions, lock-boxes, and items to purchase are omnipresent. However, the main tactics used (especially the push for zen ? dilithium conversions) are being seen dissatisfactory by the playerbase. Take the fleet ships (especially the Klingon ones), after heavy grinding through a heavily monetized system, the end product is also heavily monetized and very marginally improved. This leads to a lack-of-value feeling. Now each player is going to have a different perspective on what they feel is ?value? for their dollar but overwhelmingly on the forums here the overall feeling is quite obvious.
The final issue is that many people are just tired of waiting. STO has suffered greatly since launch for a great lack of diversity. The current dev team has been trying hard (and doing admirably) of trying to play catch-up since. A transition to new ownership and to a F2P model has not helped the growth of this game. The lack of progress on some long-standing gameplay issues with STO (PvP, Exploration, Crafting, Klingon Content, Foundry Integration) is apparent. The development of this game now suffers from the rapid push of systems and content to meet these demands then the subsequent lack of polish and testing time further dissuades many. Now approaching its middle-age (yes three years is middle age for an MMO), many people are simply giving up.
I feel for the dev team, they have the heart but seems they have had an uphill battle with STO since launch. I am highly critical of the game, but still play and still somewhat enjoy the game, simply because I am a Star Trek fan. I?ll probably always play the game whether it is my primary or not, but I can say that if I feel something more enjoyable comes along, my time in game would drop.
I want you to inform that with these last changes you did in season 7, lots of players turned into 2 click mode. Players come online, say hi and leave, or go at exchange and do ferengi business.
Talking with them, I found they are disappointed, there is no dilithium where to gather. Starbase projects didnt moved from the day season 7 started. Smaller fleets loose their members, moving to bigger fleets who already have tier IV. Embassy projects are at beginning, same reason, no dilithium.
One thing left to do is trading at the market.. and that is boring.
I hope you dont like to turn STO into 2 click game per day for the daily missions, and after a period all gamers to leave.
Also i hope you dont want to exist only 1-2 fleets where all players that will stay in the game will be togheter.
Fix the game and take the game out from the depression.
Thanks.
2012 is turning out to be the Dilithium Depression
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Join Date: August 29th 2010
That statement is painfully true. I can only hope that the upcoming ability to convert Marks into Dilithium makes this all worthwhile, or I can't see myself having much reason to log on.
Cryptic, please make the conversion of Marks give a high enough amount of Dilithium to give me reason to keep playing.
Original Username - njdss4 - Original Join Date - July 28, 2008 (Official Forum Launch Date)
If a player wants to max their dilithium, all they really need to do is 9-15 PvP matches (1 - 4 hours, depends on how well matched the teams are) or 6-7 Elite STFs (1 hour 45 minutes - 3 hours) or 12-16 fleet actions (2 -3 hours). That is assuming the player only earned 800 dilithium from the duty officer system that day and you are running these missions in PUG. Running these missions with fleetmates will shave off an hour or so. Ths also doesn't even go into the fairly quick daily missions in Deferi Space, Starfleet academy, explore strange new worlds, or the Eta Eridani Sector block.
The duty officer system can be a sole source of dilithium. You may not hit the cap every day, but you will come close. I usually get around 4000-7000 dilithium from the system if I am trying to use the reputation system for dilithium grinding. Sure, it takes time traveling throughout the galaxy picking up specific projects (about 45 minutes) and hoping for a crit, but it can be worth it. The projects are certainly a nice alternative if I don't feel like grinding through missions. Running the turn in contraband assignment will significantly decrease the number of missions you need to hit the cap (2000 dilithium for 5 contraband). A critical success on Dilithium Mining will result in a 1000 dilithium reward. Turning in 1 of each type of prototype weapons platform plans to "Gamma Quadrant Allies" will give 1000 dilithium on normal and 3000 dilithium on crit, along with three large stacks of gamma quadrant commodities. Resettle colonists (500 dilithium) and resolve missions also give high rewards.
So to be perfectly honest, I don't see why there is an outcry over the dilithium changes. Nor do I see where the inactivity claims currently sweeping the forums is coming from. Cryptic nerfed the hell out of the tier 0 and 1 projects to a point where I could solo them with relative ease if I wanted to. Tier II is much tougher, but even small fleets can advance quite steadily with some effort. It doesn't take dozens of players to get to tier III in a decent amount of time. That's just my two energy credits.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Conversion rate will be 50 Marks to 500 dilithium. Elite STFs give 60 marks (75 with the optional) plus their base 960 dilithium and 1 BNP. 5 BNP = 1000 dilithium. Assuming you run STFs in groups of 5, you will earn (960*5) + 1000 + [(60*5 /50)*500] = 8800 dilithium. FIVE Elite STFs a day and you will have 8800 dilithium. And that doesn't account for the extra 75 marks you would make if you get the optional on each one. I don't know about you, but I can get through all but cure ground in 15-20 minutes. So in 100 minutes you will have more than the max cap for dilithium. I think that sounds very nice.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Dithilium grind bullying players into buying Z-points and instead just making most leave
Too much P2W
Really bad Romulan models
Too far divorced from lore
How to fix it
Hire competent devs to solve bugs and design good NPC models
Hire better lore writers who understand Trek
Hire leads who know how to manage a MMO (preferably talent from outside the industry as no one in the industry today has a credible claim to having any idea how to do so)
Will it happen
The man in Beijing says 'lolno'
If you really want to help the dilithium exchange and really bring in some cash for new content development (or for your ferarri fund whatever floats your boat), after you run a lock box, put that grand prize at the end of Tier 5 and make it a reputation project. Take the Jem'Hadar ship (the most desired ship in the game if I'm not mistaken), it runs in a lock box for a few months, players buy master keys trying to get the grand prize, after that lock box ends, it goes up as a Tier 5 project. If you want it, you have to put up 350,000 dilithium, 1,500 Dominion marks, 200 changeling lockets, 250 unrefined ketracel white, 50 tactical duty officers, and a fleet module. Some players are going to spend their entire paychecks, or their allowances, trying to buy enough zen to either get lucky with master keys, or to convert enough zen to dilithium. The ships you acquire through the reputation project do not come in reward boxes, but are placed directly in your shipyard so you don't have a bunch of guys trying to corner the market on Jem bugs or Galors (the Lock box ships should remain the same though, this way the exchange doesn't have to suffer). You're going to have players that are going to bust their humps to get those ships, but there are others that will absolutely refuse to put in that much work, and then there are those players that will save every last piece of dilithium they have to get one of those ships.
I'm not sure how players would feel about a system like this to be honest. On the one hand it quadruples the grinding that so many hate, but on the other hand, it offers some damn good rewards for that grind. What I like the most about a system like this is that it will diversify the skills sets so much more than what the current three career paths offer. I think it will also even the playing field in PVP and bring new blood into the PVP arenas. I have all Mk12 gear (including a MACO set), and I can handle elite STFs with little to no difficulty most of the time, but I'll be honest, I tend to stay away from PVP because I get my TRIBBLE handed to me on a sliver platter by those guys that lurk in the PVP arena and spend all their time and/or money putting together that perfect PVP build, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way, but let's say that all of a sudden I have an ability derived from my Breen skill set where I can drain a significant portion of that PVP expert's energy or disables a subsystem for a certain amount of time, then I could actually have a chance against a guy like that. It would even the playing field. This coupled with having the environment play a role in combat (like asteriod collisions causing damage, or gas clouds having certain negative or positive effects, or even having enemies on the map hostile to both sides) would force the players to bring some real strategy and tactics to the PVP arena instead of focusing purely on having the best build.
Yes, these ideas would bring a hell of a lot more grind into STO, and I like many, don't always have the time or patience for grind, but it would also make the rewards for all that grinding worth while and maybe help pay for more story driven development. Some people are just impossible to make happy. You could put the lock box and c-store ships up for free to all who want them for a weekend and there would be someone complaining that it's messing up their immersion, or that the event didn't last as long as they thought it should've, but I think this would put a lot of complaints to rest and bring players who left back to the game.
Rest in Peace Brothers