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Tetryon needs a boost!
vyktori
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I decided to do "The New Link" or whatever to get the Polarized Tetryon Beam Array, 6 times. I reskilled my Science Officer and bought the Vesta ship bundle. Maxed flow capacitors. Right away I'm thinking hey, I may not do much damage (I leave that to tac officers) but at least I will be able to help take down shields. I figured if I'm a Sci, I should be using more Aux/Shield than weapon. Tetryon = anti-shield so I could at least help with enemy shields while still being supportive.
I decided to test my shield burning abilities. The Polarized Tetryon Beam Array is a 10% chance to do 300 something extra damage to all shields, as opposed to the 2.5% of other tetryon weapons. In the Azure Nebula Rescue mission, I went and tractor beamed an enemy Recluse and broadsided it with these anti-shield beams. The tractor beam was to keep the ship still, so I would be sure I'm hitting the same shield face each time. I completely destroyed the ship without seeing a flicker of shield dropping from the other 3 shields. I was still using Weapon power for this test.
My overall point is that even with the "best" tetryon weapons for burning shields -and- maxing the flow capacitor skill (which supposedly increases tetryon burn and if not, it should) ...I didn't even notice it. Does it only effect the facing shield and not all shields like it says it does? If so, what is the point of a weak weapon focused on damaging shields, when any other weapon would do more damage to -everything- including shields?
I know, I could learn Tachyon Beam and some other things to kill shields. Of course I could. My problem is that the weapons were supposed to be doing that too and they seem to do absolutely nothing against shields. I've tested it in many cases and it is not noticeable at all. Is there something I'm missing here, or should tetryon be boosted like 10x just so you can see the effect on the highest proc tetryon weapon in the game?
I decided to test my shield burning abilities. The Polarized Tetryon Beam Array is a 10% chance to do 300 something extra damage to all shields, as opposed to the 2.5% of other tetryon weapons. In the Azure Nebula Rescue mission, I went and tractor beamed an enemy Recluse and broadsided it with these anti-shield beams. The tractor beam was to keep the ship still, so I would be sure I'm hitting the same shield face each time. I completely destroyed the ship without seeing a flicker of shield dropping from the other 3 shields. I was still using Weapon power for this test.
My overall point is that even with the "best" tetryon weapons for burning shields -and- maxing the flow capacitor skill (which supposedly increases tetryon burn and if not, it should) ...I didn't even notice it. Does it only effect the facing shield and not all shields like it says it does? If so, what is the point of a weak weapon focused on damaging shields, when any other weapon would do more damage to -everything- including shields?
I know, I could learn Tachyon Beam and some other things to kill shields. Of course I could. My problem is that the weapons were supposed to be doing that too and they seem to do absolutely nothing against shields. I've tested it in many cases and it is not noticeable at all. Is there something I'm missing here, or should tetryon be boosted like 10x just so you can see the effect on the highest proc tetryon weapon in the game?
Post edited by vyktori on
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You would be better off going for an advance or elite fleet Tetyron Weapons with the 5 mods. These have much more base damage and still do the shield draining proc. If you want to maximize your shield draining, maximize everything about your build. All your Boffs, all your consoles, everything should drain or disable shields if that is how you want to go.
Turning my Sci into a Sheild killer, with tractor beam with the shield drain Doff ability and Tachyon Beam, I was going to out fit them with advanced tetryons from the fleet store but everyone online i talk to says simply not worth it. there useless and you do better with just phasers and target sheild subsystems.
So I geuss im not getting tetryons...
But really, Tetryon isn't your problem, it's the beams.
On the topic of dps, if you want to run beams because you want to run beams, ok nuff said. But if you want to increase your dps take advantage of the single biggest advantage the Vesta has and load up some DHCs.
On your Science officer always pop an Aux battery before you use sensor scan.
On your Eng, well, dps really isn't their thing, but Nadion Inversion right before you CRF/CSV.
DPS on the Vesta is going to take a Tac Lt. Com or an Eng Lt. Com with Aux2Batt and Tech doffs. That second option is a chunk of change to acquire the doffs and is very much a love it or hate it kind of build, and require going for non-Aux dependent Sci abilities.
Big, fat, inflated HP bags in STFs beg to be tric mined. Lose 1 rear turret, slot a mine. Sub nuc isn't that valuable in STFs, but you can use it to remove FAW from gates and such so you can tric mine them. Otherwise you watch their buff bars (a skill that will serve you well should you decide to PvP) until FAW ends.
TT, CSV1, CSV2
TT, DPB1
I tend to favor CSV in STFs even against big single targets because those big single targets tend to shoot destructible projectiles.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
1. Tetryons aren't inherently weaker than other energy types.
The only difference between energy types is proc, and Tetryons have 'bonus damage (Shield only) as a proc, basically. They're not weak.
As such "Any other weapon" would not kill shields faster: you get the same damage+a chance of shield-damaging proc.
2. The Shield drain effect does not depend on Weapon damage. It depends on Flow Capacitor skill and Weapon Power.
3. On the other hand, the Polarized Tetryons are weak. I made the mistake of getting them for my Sci, too, but the truth is: regular blue/purple Mk XII Tetryons are better. Even with low (~50) Weapon Power, the added damage from the higher mark and mods outweighs the added 7.5% proc.
So, in essence: switch to regular Tetryons, they're pretty good for a Sci.
If you're a Sci Captain in a Vesta I really think the Aux DHCs are the best way to go.
Here's why:
1) DHCs even with CRF 1 are going to be better at shield stripping than any beam array - Tetryon or otherwise.
2) They run off of Aux power. AUX POWER!! :eek:
I don't know if I can stress just how much of an amazing gift this is to a Sci Captain in a Science Ship with a base turn rate of 12.
Running 3x Aux DHCs means you can run around at full 125 Aux power.
> Your heals are bigger, and in some cases with higher resistances.
> Many of your control powers and debuffs are significantly stronger.
> Several of your Captain abilities are again, significantly stronger as they are linked directly to current Aux power (SNB, Scattering Field, Sensor Scan - seriously, go in game and bring your Aux power to minimum and then up to maximum and take note of just how powerful these abilities get with max Aux power).
> With all of that, your fore weapons are the best energy weapon type in the entire game for damage dealing and energy efficiency, and they are firing at maximum benefit.
> Lastly, you can completely dump weapon power. Put max power to Aux, and then put the rest into shields or engines
Definitely.
Agreed, and as I mentioned above or a Sci captain specifically there are huge benefits to running the Aux DHCs.
For standard DHCs, yes I would do the above but if the Op does decide on an Aux DHC build I would skip on Aux to Batts as they just interfere too much with everything, including weapons at that point, being so heavily linked to aux power.
My point, which is basically proven by people saying I'm mistaken, is that the tetryon proc is too weak. Using any other kind of energy weapon would do more damage, meaning shields drop faster anyway, not to mention more damage to hull and more consistent. Even using Tachyon Beam and all that I don't notice enemy shields dropping. If this is another one of those "well it works in PvP but not PvE" like polaron weapons etc... then there is a simple fix. Make the effects larger and then scale them for PvP so nobody loses out. They give us several types of energy weapons, but there is really no effective reason to use the tetryon beams.
Using the most anti-shield based weapon with 4x the proc of the normal one should at least be noticeable. If I am shooting the same side of a ship, I would expect the other 3 shields to be at ~70% around the time the ship itself dies. Keep in mind, the polarized tetryon beams do significantly less than other beam weapons as it only goes to Mk XI and has no mods. It would be the same if the Plasma DoT did 1 damage per tick. Why have a mod if the default value of npc ships totally negates it? I thought Polaron would be a good one, because -25 power is a lot of shield/weapon reduction etc in an enemy. Turns out enemy power levels are massively buffed and higher than the amounts players can get to, effectively making polaron nerfed. Same goes for tetryon.
Tetryon deserves to be a viable option. Not everyone wants to run a Tac/Escort or whatever. A sci should be just fine being a buffer/debuffer/healer without having to focus on dps too. Tetryon needs a big boost. Well, that may not be true, rnemy ships need their power insulators nerfed. With maxed flow capacitors, my tachyon beam is barely noticeable against almost any enemy ship. This game is basically forcing players to only play one way, dps. Give us other options.
The Tetryon proc is a damage proc that only affects shields.
So you are choosing a proc that is basically a DPS added proc.
And what we are telling you is that those weapons are weak, they are mission rewards, they have very low damage mods and their lower damage overall means that even with the 10% proc they will do less damage vs. shields than a MK XII Elite Fleet Tetryon weapon.
You are confusing a starter weapon, the Polarized Tets, with endgame weapons (Elite Fleet Weapons, Rep system weapons).
You need to visualize that ultimately your weapons have one major purpose - to deal damage.
And you have chosen low damage weapons (beam arrays) with a low quality (MK XI blue with no other added benefits) and hoping that damage added proc will compensate.
It does not.
You seem to want to make a "shield stripping" build, but if you go through and look at many of the 'shield stripping' powers - ultimately many of them are just a special type of direct damage to shields.
The damage is stripping, not the proc. That is the point. With 4x the proc, it should make even a tiny dent in the enemy shields that aren't being hit. That is what they are for. That is my point.
And my point, is that the proc is just extra damage.
That's all it is.
A tetryon proc is extra damage against shields when it procs.
So what happens is that you are getting the proc, which adds more damage, 10% of the time vs. 2.5% of the time.
The problem is, that the weapon's base damage is low enough that simply using a more powerful Tetryon weapon will be better.
Again, the 10% shield damage procs are on a starter weapon.
If the 10% proc was on a MK XII Elite Fleet Tetryon weapon with multiple mods, I promise you it would be much more noticeable.
Yeah, they're bad. That's undeniable.
But it isn't.
Not in "compared to other procs" way, at least.
I logged on my Sci, my Tetryons have a 2.5% chance to damage all Shields by 669.2 (could go higher), thus averaging +16.73 per hit to all my Energy Weapons.
In my case, it's a DBB & 3 Turrets (Orb Weaver); thus:
- DBB: +13.384 DPS
- Turrets: +~22.31 DPS
By comparison, assuming ~15% critrate and ~70% base crit severity, Antiprotons add ~1.76% DPS to all your Energy Weapons so you'd need ~760.45 DPS (DBB)/~1267.61 (Turrets) or more to outdo Tetryons... you're not reaching those numbers as a Sci/Sci with maxed Aux => Tetryons > Antiprotons for a high Aux Sci build.
And that's not even including the fact that Tetryons DO damage all Shield facings.
Well, no. Disruptors and Antiprotons would drop Shields slower, but do more damage to Hull.
Phasers could drop Shields faster, but on average are slower.
Plasma would lulz.
Can't be arsed to calculate Polarons right now.
See above.
They are. See above again. Polarized Tetryons would be viable if they were availlable in Mk XII, but they just aren't. So they're competitive for levels 45-49, but not at 50; it's simply a Mk problem.
And it is.
You're not forced to DD, but you have to understand that you're asking for DD power. "Stripping shields" is a form of damage, if the Tetryon proc could outdo the base damage of Weapons, why would anyone care about said base damage*?
Everyone would just run Tetryons (Polarized ones, even!) and max Aux, regardless of Captain and Ship type.
*before a smartass answers "Hull", in such a scenario you'd rely on Torpedoes almost solely to DD Hull.
Tl;dr: All procs are vastly inferior to base weapon damage, for good reason; but the Tetryon proc isn't inherently weaker than the others.
With high Flow Capacitors, it's very strong indeed.
Taking a look at how to be more useful in STFs I did not come up with the solution to be a shield stripper given the number of shieldless stationary HP bags standing in the way of optionals, but that's just me. Sure, Hive has some beefy shielded hombres, but given the nature of the optionals I'd focus on AoE suppression of destructible projectiles followed by damage and DR debuffing as secondary objectives to healing.
Anyway, IMO tets aren't weak, but PI is a bit too effective at present. That's my conclusion anyway since CPB and Tachyon Beam are underperforming these days. They should start there if they start anywhere.
In general tets feel like a waste because once shields are down (or not there in the first place) they do nothing for you, but that's just my inner min/maxxer getting twitchy. The Tets would be the t1ts if they interfered with shield resists or made heals less effective. As it stands if shields are down and you get a tet proc it's wasted. If it was a disruptor proc for shields then even when they started to come back up if the target was still tagged with the proc it would go into effect.
And on a completely non-min/max note, Tets are my favorite BO sound.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
From what I can tell, the amount of shield damage is something like 323.3 on the base weapon. What doesn't seem to be computing here as that the 300 something amount is being reduced. Also, if we are assuming shield damage etc, why are we starting with 15% crit rate and 70% crit severity?
Also, the difference is that the shield reduction is not direct damage. It is not effected by weapon power. You can't add it in to dps that way. The whole point of this is to damage shields and not care so much about overall dps. Of course I could use DBB and DHC if I wanted, but why use higher dps weapons and waste it on tetryon?
Shield damage from weapon damage = normal. Shield damage from tetryon burn / tachyon etc is massively reduced due to very high power insulators on enemy ships. It effectively nullifies the damage you would "gain" by using tetryon over another weapon, even against shields.
The end result of this is that higher dps = more shield damage than tetryon can accomplish, even on an equal rank weapon. That makes it useless even against shields, the thing it was meant to be good at.
The thing is, Tetryon and Subsystem Targeting work on chance, while cannons work less on chance and more on raw damage, which already makes them superior. I was just doing one of those Tau Dewa Sector alerts, and I wasn't even budging the Orb Weaver's shields, not with Polarized Tetryons. Then came a Defiant with Polaron cannons, and the shield facing of that Orb Weaver went down in no time. Something's wrong here, IMO.
Think about it - I run tetryons on my recluse (bit of synergy with the Widow fighter's tetryons). If I score 10 procs against a target, I do, say, ~3,500 damage to non-facing shields. Against a PvP escort, this is 50% - 66% of their shields, but against a cube this may only be 10% of their shields...
Tetryons aren't imbalanced, they're "PvP balanced" and being used in a PvE world...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
undyingzero, yep that is basically my point. They are giving us no option but zomgz dps ftw. Not everyone wants to be a tac/escort. They really aren't allowing us to make other builds. "Oh, that enemy ship has some tough shields? Let's send in the Sci with Polarized Tetryon beams spamming tachyon beam and targetting shields. Oh wait, nevermind... we have a tac in a little escort ship with AP DHC."
Overall, I think they should really buff the tetryon proc so that it is visually noticeable. Even with a 10% proc rate, it does basically nothing against anything that matters. Honestly, it would have to be several times stronger than it is now to be actually able to compete with just a high dps ship. Keep in mind, this is -only- against shields. Enemy power insulators are just far too strong. They resist tetryon/tachyon, but not damage from the weapon itself... so high dps DHC are still ftw.
From what I can tell, Flow Capacitors work for Tachyon Beam, but not the tetryon proc. Same goes for particle generators and the plasma DoT. If they were to have those skills effect the weapon procs, I think the game could be much more enjoyable. People would be able to pick a specific build, saying hey, I want to make a shield stripper *clicks points into flow capacitors*. Or hey, I think I'll go with plasma to burn hulls and melt me some Gorn or whatever is inside *clicks points into particle generators*. This would help with consoles too. So many of them are useless now. Why do 5% more drain with tachyon beam when you can have 6k more shield capacity, or 100 more shield emitter strength? If I am wrong about the flow capacitors/particle generators working for procs, then that is another problem... because I can't tell the difference when using 5x sci consoles to buff either of those effects -and- maxing the skill on my captain.