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Atrox, Recluse, and general carrier advice
unangbangkay
Member Posts: 10 Arc User
Hey all,
I've been running my Engineer main around in escorts and escort-style craft for a good while, but with the new ship sale in place I've been in a good position to try out a change of pace. Since I know I just don't get along too well with Cruisers (got a Regent and a proto-Odyssey and they don't like me :P), I went and got me a Vesta for a bit of fun, multi-role science flavor.
Now I'm ready for a more extreme departure, and I'm thinking...carriers. With the new ship sale in place I'm in a good position to pick up an Atrox, but I'm also coming into some money soon and might be able to swing my very own Tholian Recluse.
Should I get the Atrox or the Recluse? Does anyone have suggested builds/tips for either? I was also considering saving up for a Temporal Destroyer instead of a Recluse. Is that a better buy? Are Stalkers as terrible a carrier pet as some have suggested? What's the main strategy for flying a catboat?
Any advice is welcome!
I've been running my Engineer main around in escorts and escort-style craft for a good while, but with the new ship sale in place I've been in a good position to try out a change of pace. Since I know I just don't get along too well with Cruisers (got a Regent and a proto-Odyssey and they don't like me :P), I went and got me a Vesta for a bit of fun, multi-role science flavor.
Now I'm ready for a more extreme departure, and I'm thinking...carriers. With the new ship sale in place I'm in a good position to pick up an Atrox, but I'm also coming into some money soon and might be able to swing my very own Tholian Recluse.
Should I get the Atrox or the Recluse? Does anyone have suggested builds/tips for either? I was also considering saving up for a Temporal Destroyer instead of a Recluse. Is that a better buy? Are Stalkers as terrible a carrier pet as some have suggested? What's the main strategy for flying a catboat?
Any advice is welcome!
Post edited by unangbangkay on
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It's a 2500 Zen ship with only 9 console slots, no Fleet version, no unique ability or anything, no custom bridge, and the Stalker fighters cannot be used on any other Fed carrier-type ship.
In addition, it cannot mount dual cannons (whereas Recluse can), it doesn't have any universal boff slots (whereas Recluse does), and it costs absurd amount of Zen (2500? Really? It should cost 2000 like the majority of other non-top-tier vessels).
Save your EC and get yourself a Recluse. Superior ship with superior capabilities.
Still, I dumped them both in favour of the Vesta, because I couldn't stand the slow turn rate anymore. Also, Fed hangars aren't really that great. If you want to have some fun with a Carrier then I strongly suggest playing as a KDF in a Kar'Fi.
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Well, that's not exactly a glowing endorsement :P
Now I've got some followup questions:
- Are dual cannons that important to carrier builds?
- Is the Atrox that inferior?
- What's a better buy, a Mobius or a Recluse? I know the Mobius isn't a carrier, but if you had the EC to spend, which would you pick?
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
No, but the point and shoot is a good build with some science skills, like gravity well. I used single cannons, beam arrays, and turrets.
The maneuverability makes it somewhat unwieldy, again considering some of the best science powers are aimed with your nose. It really could use a quality control check with all the new carriers out, but then again so could the klingon versions.
The fighters are a sore spot with me, as they are fairly effective, and unique. but even though the normal fighters are more powerful, you can't use them on anything but the atrox.
the Atrox ain't THAT inferior i have one myself and it is a solid ship since it is currently the bulkiest science ship the feds have. On top of that you can have 2 bays of fighters. The recluse i s more versitile yes but if your a engy you want bulk. I myself have not been able to buy a recluse yet but the Mobius is a solid choice it is a good escort and has access to the tipler cylinder when you get it from the Wells.
Carriers have slow turn-rate, but with commander universal boff station you could dump a tactical officer, put on some dual cannons, scatters and rapids and your dps would increase significantly. They're also good for sci builds - slows, holds etc. And if anything, it's at least an option which Atrox doesn't provide. Just compare the stats. Atrox is a standard Tier 5 ship with 9 consoles, while Recluse is a "Fleet" level type of ship.
Recluse has more base HP, bigger shield modifier, 10th console slot, a bit better turn-rate and comes not only with its own (good) fighters, but also with a thermionic torpedo, which is a decent disable-type weapon that you can use on other ships.
It's not a matter of "which one would I pick", as they're completely different classes. I fly mobius on a Tac and I think it's a decent choice for a Sci as well, but for my Eng I've tried out numerous ships only to stick with Vesta for the time being, at least until Feds receive some proper Battlecruiser (hopefully one of the andorian ships).
Speaking of battlecruisers and spending EC - D'Kora may be a good choice for you. It provides decent amount of firepower with dual cannons, can turn pretty well and has boff layout that allows for both firepower and tanking (i.e. great for an engineer).
No, you can't, unless they've changed something recently, which I doubt.
Yes, you can, I just double checked it. even quad cannons if you want. Try it.
I have one on my fed toon and it sucks, the feds choice of pets is appalling and it blows up for fun.
I am sick of having to haul my ginormous vo'quv TRIBBLE over the other side of a KASE map because they've got beat up by a cube and are about to let the (ive got these) probes through and ruin the optional
karfi and vo'quv are the best carriers on the game with the recluse probably taking a third place from what ive seen
but any decision you make don't waste your money on the atrox
however he is referring to a fed carrier. and on top of that the recluse is very expensive the atrox is a good ship sure not very manuverable but that also can be used as a advantage like power sliding into the fight if timed right you can have systems at fighting stength while crusing into the fight also carriers don't ususally need to involve themselves in fights. atrox can just hang back and lets its wings of fighters do the work for it. sure it can suppliment them but for the atrox it is there to support the fighters not be a standalone DPS unit. the recluse is fleet grade but very expensive so unless ya know how to earn EC fast it is not a viable option. I would also reccomend looking at the Armitage and the Vesta line because they are carriers meant for front line action unlike the Atrox which should hand back a bit from all the fighting and yes the atrox can equip cannons.
The Recluse is easily the best carrier in the game hands down, I'm sorry. The Atrox, though not a bad ship, probably isn't really worth it unless you really want a pure fed carrier. Like somebody said earlier, it's a Z-store ship with 9 consoles, no unique devices and is basically a Vo'quv that leans science VS. the Vo'quv that leans tactical. It's not a bad ship, but leaves one to wonder why it's in the Z-store compared to just being a rear admiral ship like the Vo'quv (considering you pay just as much for it as the Karfi with the Karfi being many times more capable).
What definition of "best" are you using when you say that the Recluse is better than the Vo'quv and Kar'fi?
If you can't get 60-65 mil ecs though, don't even bother. But if you can, I would say save your zen, and blow your ECs on the Recluse. I have friends who fly a recluse, and NONE of them regret having bought it. However many of my friends who have the Atrox do regret it.
Because when I bought the Atrox I wasn't able to mount dual cannons. And I've tried, mind you.
Not that it's important in any way, as I'll never go back to Atrox and I strongly discourage people from buying it. If you need to fly a Carrier then go for the Recluse. Otherwise look for something that can turn, because personally being a PvE player this was the reason I started dropping every ship with turn-rate lower than 8... As fun as Recluse was it was a pain to fly. Changed it to Vesta.
I have all three and I like the Karfi the best, but the Voq and Atrox are the same, at least for my play style. I have no problems doing elite STFs and doing solid DPS in all of them, and since they nerfed the invisible torp of doom, I never die.
The Recluse is better though, no downside, besides that it's fugly.
I've ultimately decided to go with getting an Atrox, mainly because I had money to burn and the ship is quite pretty. Also, I'm working on a Sci toon, and having an account-level unlock will give him more options when I get up in levels, as opposed to getting a character-only Recluse.
I also decided against the Recluse because I want a Mobius (or Wells), and I figure that if I want to spend 3 years worth of accumulated EC on something (I grind very slowly), I may as well use it on a ship I'm reasonably sure I'll have fun playing in, something I can't necessarily say for carrier-style play.
With that in mind, does anyone have suggestions for an Atrox build? Right now I've transplanted some of my old cruiser/SV equipment while figuring out what to do, and here's what I've got:
Weapons: (I plan to switch to polarized tetryons or phased disruptors when I can)
Fore: 1x Wide-Angle Quantum, 2x Phaser Array Mk XI (borg)
Aft: 2x Phaser array mk xi (borg), 1x Tricobalt Mine
Shield/Engine/Deflector: Full MACO Mk. XI (also have full Borg, full Jem'Hadar, full Breen, and Omega Shield/Engines)
Consoles:
Eng: 1x Neutronium (rare mk xi), 1x Ablative (purple mk xii), 1 RCS Accelerator (or Resonance Cascade console from the Steamrunner)
Sci: Borg Console, 2x Field Generator, 1x Shield Emitter Amplifier (purple mk xii)
Tac: 2x Phaser Relay (to be replaced with appropriate damage console later)
Hangar: 1x Purple Danubes, 1x Purple Peregrines (may go all-danube/Peregrine for STFs)
Boffs/Powers:
Cmd Sci: Transfer Shield I, Haz. Emitter II, Viral Matrix I, Grav Well III
LtC Sci: Polarize hull I, Tyken's Rift 1 (might replace with Haz Em II), Transfer Shield III
Lt Tac: Tactical Team I, Fire At Will II
LtC Eng: Emer. Power Shields I, Reverse Polarity I, Emer. Power Shields III
Any suggestions? I'm also open to more exotic builds.
ok. are you talking about the Caitian Carrier Atrox, or the Escort Carrier Armitage? Armitage can use dual cannons and the quad cannons.
The Boff layout on the Recluse is superior. Its got another console, better turn, more hull and shields. Widows are stronger too. Its arguably the best healer in the game with a Lt Com Sci AND Eng.
And yes you can mount dual heavy cannons on the Atrox I just tried it. I dont know why you would ever want to. Please dont put torpedoes on a carrier either. A kitten dies everytime a DHC or torps are put on a carrier. Kar'fi doesnt count, thats the best carrier in game. By "carrier" that means 2 hangar bays.
I don't have an atrox, but I've spent quite a bit of time in the Vo'Quv, and there are a couple of issues you may have with your build;
Carriers turn very slowly so positioning is very important - because many of the high level sci abilities have a 90 degree aim arc (grav well and viral matrix in your build + subnucleonic beam) - you could never combine these abilities well with broadsiding in a carrier as you will be doing rubbish damage with no sci abilities, or sci abilities with even worse DPS.
I've tried a few different weapon loadout configs (different combos of beam,dual beam,cannon,dual heavy cannon and turret) with the Vo'Quv, and my loadout of choice is 1 dual beam bank + 2 single cannon fore and 3 turrets rear - with the ship directly facing the enemy - this gives me maximum uptime on the big sci abilities, weapon dps, subsystem targetting and procs from the weapons with the BOP carrier pets providing kinetic damage from their torpedo attacks. Tractor beam is in invaluable for holding targets in your arc/tykens etc.
Don't be stingy with the Doffs - a blue/purple grav scientist and systems engineer will make your grav well and viral matrix abilities much more potent.
There isn't a correct build, but you really need to stack your advantages and try to mitigate the low turn rate issue if you want your atrox to be fun to fly and effective in battle.
You are contradicting yourself with your torpedo argument.
Its turn rate is the reason why you should run it as a beam boat (or single cannons). Mines are fine, I never said anything on mines.