I just can't imagine playing Mario Bros. where I had to rely on 3rd party info to tell me why the princess was important, in terms of saving her. It's like everyone is grasping for straws for anything, anywhere that makes the plot, story, or basic rationale for this game to make sense on any basic level of Trek lore.
As far as the lore missions, I think it was a disservice to the original writer that Cryptic just tossed it all out the window. It's like there was a writer who did his/her best to provide a plot to this game and nobody cared. It got chopped up like sushi when it fit some kind of corporate rationale. Now, we're all left asking WTF is the story of this game.
THIS GAME NO LONGER HAS A STORY THAT MAKES SENSE.
It's not the fault of a writer who dared to care about the story.
Don't give up hope yet - The cutscenes from the Romulan Reputation System will help get things back on track and lead up to the next chapter in Romulans / Iconians. Season 8 has a lot more story information that will move the story forward and focused back on Fed vs. KDF and how the Romulans are caught in between but perhaps a key component to what will ultimately resolve the KDF/Fed war.
I agree that it is is sort of all over the place with the addition of the Feature Episodes into the Episode logs, but we are making a serious effort over the next 3 seasons to correct this, starting with Season 7 and New Romulus.
Don't give up hope yet - The cutscenes from the Romulan Reputation System will help get things back on track and lead up to the next chapter in Romulans / Iconians. Season 8 has a lot more story information that will move the story forward and focused back on Fed vs. KDF and how the Romulans are caught in between but perhaps a key component to what will ultimately resolve the KDF/Fed war.
I agree that it is is sort of all over the place with the addition of the Feature Episodes into the Episode logs, but we are making a serious effort over the next 3 seasons to correct this, starting with Season 7 and New Romulus.
LOL
If I said more to this, I'd get banned for sure. But that's the funniest joke I've read in ages. Thanks. I needed a good laugh.
___________________
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Don't give up hope yet - The cutscenes from the Romulan Reputation System will help get things back on track and lead up to the next chapter in Romulans / Iconians. Season 8 has a lot more story information that will move the story forward and focused back on Fed vs. KDF and how the Romulans are caught in between but perhaps a key component to what will ultimately resolve the KDF/Fed war.
I agree that it is is sort of all over the place with the addition of the Feature Episodes into the Episode logs, but we are making a serious effort over the next 3 seasons to correct this, starting with Season 7 and New Romulus.
I hope so. Nothing about this war or the interaction between the two powers makes any kind of sense at the current point in time.
♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
hmm... I remember them saying S7 was going to be about story when S6 launched.
Sure, the next season will always be the one with Story content ... the next FE will be 5 Grind Missions in a new tab (Season 8)... and everyone including Dstahl is gonna tell us ... "Season 9 will be new Epic Storytelling ..."
Stopped playing after Season 6, because lack of Story, and was hoping for a glorious return ... guess I have to support "Robert Space Industries" instead and get my hopes from there
Don't give up hope yet - The cutscenes from the Romulan Reputation System will help get things back on track and lead up to the next chapter in Romulans / Iconians. Season 8 has a lot more story information that will move the story forward and focused back on Fed vs. KDF and how the Romulans are caught in between but perhaps a key component to what will ultimately resolve the KDF/Fed war.
I agree that it is is sort of all over the place with the addition of the Feature Episodes into the Episode logs, but we are making a serious effort over the next 3 seasons to correct this, starting with Season 7 and New Romulus.
Sorry but thats almosty cynical after telling us "Season 7" will all about new ways to advance Story Content yadda yadda ... why should we still believe in it ... Season 7 looks more like advancing an endless "Carrot on a
stick - Grindfest" ... to be continued with Season 8, 9 ....
Some of the story unlocks through the tiers, with extra cut scenes and new missions opening up, so there is story. its just not unlocked which is good or bad depending on your point of view.
but i think there is a shift in how story is told. it seems to be more picking up all the information and putting it together.
before there would be a FE series. it would be one story, split over 5 episodes and would have a beginning, middle and end for the most part. now it seems to be more open but a little less focused.
so we have the romulan people moving towards a new home, their leader trying to hold it all together, while the tal shiar plots and schemes. the tholians are stealing ships and have some clear interest in romulan technology and new romulus itself and certain clues would suggest they know about the iconians. Flavour text is brought by the NPC's around new romulus and there is more to unlock through the tiers. this could all be incorporated into a FE series, and fleshed out a little if they wanted, and you would have the exact same story.
every event mission and event is not just a random thing. there is a point to it, we might just not have all of the pieces yet. if you want it all in a linear way, and want to clearly see what is going on then its not as good as a FE. if you want to have the pieces fall into place as you go then there is some charm to the new way.
I think the important thing is to mix up how its presented. so that we get a mix of FE that have the story very much front and centre and adventures zones and events that add extra detail bit by bit.
As was pointed out earlier in the thread, I posted back in August that Season 7 was all about mission content -- this is true, but there are also awesome story elements throughout the Tau Dewa sector, especially on New Romulus and with the reputation system. Also during August, at the Las Vegas convention, Dan spoke about Season 8 being our return back to big stories/ episodic content. You can check out the panel discussion here: http://www.trekradio.net/stlv-star-trek-online-developers-panel/
We can't talk much about S8 yet, but I'm blown away by how epic it's going to be.
I think you are thinking this through far more than the game has. Would you disagree with that?
Probably not.
But that's the kind of area where I think they should have gotten an established Trek writer involved.
I think Kestrel put together a great timeline and some of her mission ideas are very nice. But she admits they never did a "series bible."
In turn, Geko says they were reluctant to work with a Trek writer because it would mean handing off control.
They could have had Kestrel do both the timeline and missions but had a Trek writer put together a series bible. And I can see what most of them would do. This is where you'd wind up seeing major character personalities fleshed out, politics and science thought through, etc.
I think Kestrel did put together a LOT of thought on what happened. I think she probably has a lot of ideas on HOW it happens behind the scenes. But I'm not sure she's really managing a lot of character psychologies so much as she's composing a history and I think she put most of her thought into the Romulan history, moreso than Fed or Klingon.
If they just had David Gerrold consult on a series bible design doc, I think he'd walk away telling you what President Aennik Okeg liked on his toast and why that sort of thing had a role in history. You'd know if he was warm or sour or a family man or a dashing Saurian bachelor.
With Kestrel, I think a lot of characters are placeholders to prop up a very researched story... and while Michael A. Martin did some unpacking, none of his contributions subsequently have been mentioned all that much in game. And he approached things as a novelist and a straight forward journalist, which is how Kestrel approaches things. When I think they'd benefit from having someone who writes for actors come in and look at all these characters like roles they'd want to sell actors on.
While I have been critical of how executions wind up looking in the past (alongside kirksplat here), I think Christine is an excellent writer and has put together a very well researched timeline.
However, I think she tends to view events from a "chess" perspective and stretches to detour down to the character psychology level only periodically. (And I think that realm is a place where Heinig lives more.)
I know there was talk about getting her an assistant. I'd suggest it be someone who isn't an assistant historian but more of an actor/playwright/director type. I think it could be frustrating in some ways but would also be rewarding. Not saying they wouldn't do research but rather than do research to justify items and plots, they'd go a step further and focus their research on making the individual characters have a bit more push and pull against the plot rather than all being perfect agents of it.
Drama happens when characters inhabit stories they fight against.
I know this sounds nuts but I think Heinig would agree with me if he saw this post.
they'd go a step further and focus their research on making the individual characters have a bit more push and pull against the plot rather than all being perfect agents of it.
Just anything to give these npcs something resembling a personality. I mean, it can't be rocket science.
A. We have a planet full of frontier, hardship, and sacrifice.
B. The characters should reflect those features.
You could incorporate every stock stereotype from a 1950s western here, and it would work much better. Where is the blunt and cranky doctor? Where are the outlaws, beyond random folks to kill? The disgruntled Union soldier stationed out here in Montana against his will? Is he on a quest for vengeance for the death of his sister? No, he just needs a slap on the back for morale.
"Hey there soldier, did you know that practice makes perfect?" Soldier: "Um, wow, sir, I never thought of it that way! That gives me so much motivation to dig this ditch in jungle humidity!"
Our frontiersmen and women in the field are just random quest givers or token exchangers. They have very no personalities. They are not characters. And, to top it all off, many of them don't even sound like Romulans.
Don't give up hope yet - The cutscenes from the Romulan Reputation System will help get things back on track and lead up to the next chapter in Romulans / Iconians. Season 8 has a lot more story information that will move the story forward and focused back on Fed vs. KDF and how the Romulans are caught in between but perhaps a key component to what will ultimately resolve the KDF/Fed war.
I agree that it is is sort of all over the place with the addition of the Feature Episodes into the Episode logs, but we are making a serious effort over the next 3 seasons to correct this, starting with Season 7 and New Romulus.
I got to tier 1 the other day, and really enjoyed the cutscene, so that was cool.
One thing I have to say again, is that you don't need to make all new story content: A. repeatable and B. perfect.
I'm fine with playing more missions like the ones that were added early in the game. I'm actually already bored playing New Romulus - yes, it was cool, but having done it once, and gotten the background, the science info for the planet, tagging nanovs, I find myself not wanting to run around pressing F over and over again. Because that's what New Romulus is: running around pressing F. More storyline missions, please!
Additionally, there's this quote: "The perfect is the enemy of the good." You don't need to make every single new set of missions Featured Episode quality. They don't need voiceovers, they don't need new tech, they don't need new maps or new assets. Just get Kestrel to write something good, use existing assets, or heck, even the Foundry, and put it in game!
Edit: I should add that while I enjoyed the Tau Dewa patrols, doing the same thing over and over again is, again, not fun. Starbase 234 is interesting, because it presents a challenge, but other than that I'm not that into rehashing the same missions over and over.
Additionally, I can't seem to enter all the systems: is that intended, and I need to work up my Romulan rep?
Furthermore, while I appreciate bringing in some of the stuff from the TV shows, it sometimes seems like it's just meant to be a throwaway reference, rather than something more. Like the Acamarians: the story wasn't really continued in a meaningful way, we just learned that the clans were still fighting.
I appreciate all of the hard work that obviously went into the environment at New Romulus. But when I think of "story," I think of advancing the game's overall storyline. On its surface, this doesn't seem to do much of that.
But the "Hidden Camera" cutscene is a hint in the right direction, and I hope we'll see more revealed in that. Even if it requires a lot of repetitive grinding to unlock it.
S7 is about spitting in players faces. Cryptic asked community what it wants next for STO, most players voted on playable Romulus, but Cryptic served us destruction of Romulan Star Empire instead, probably forever burying chances of playing as a Romulan citizen.*
To me S7 is the worst thing that could ever happen to STO.
*Possibility of playing as a Unificationist in the future doesn't count. Unificationists turned their backs on everything that is romulan, in effect they are no longer Romulans. They have pointy ears and are mostly interested in studying flora, fauna and rocks - I think we should call them "Elves" and the New Planet (not going to call it New Romulus) should be called "Fairyland".
[SIGPIC]Join Date: August 2009[/SIGPIC] I live in an alternate universe, where j.j. abrams and cryptic never existed,
where R.S.E. is what it always should be.
S7 is about spitting in players faces. Cryptic asked community what it wants next for STO, most players voted on playable Romulus, but Cryptic served us destruction of Romulan Star Empire instead, probably forever burying chances of playing as a Romulan citizen.*
To me S7 is the worst thing that could ever happen to STO.
*Possibility of playing as a Unificationist in the future doesn't count. Unificationists turned their backs on everything that is romulan, in effect they are no longer Romulans. They have pointy ears and are mostly interested in studying flora, fauna and rocks - I think we should call them "Elves" and the New Planet (not going to call it New Romulus) should be called "Fairyland".
Season 8 has a lot more story information that will move the story forward and focused back on Fed vs. KDF and how the Romulans are caught in between but perhaps a key component to what will ultimately resolve the KDF/Fed war.
Whatever this is, can you please explain it inside the game? I don't even know why we're at war with the Klingons in the first place, other than that B'vat guy has issues. And, I've played the Klingon missions like 4 times now.
Nothing is explained beyond a messiah who may be a hope for peace and that B'vat guy. The whole premise of this game (early on) was a KDF/Fed war.
The game doesn't really explain any of it, beyond a vague Nimoy VO and a few lines here and there.
Players literally enter this game: "Hmm... ok the Borg are squishy and there is a war with the Klingons. And the Gorn. And the Orions. And the Nausicanns. And the Undine. And... war with everyone else."
Folks shouldn't have to read a novel or a long path to 2409 on a wiki to understand what is happening in the universe of STO.
Revise, please. Revise with a big red pen. Most importantly, explain to the player how New Romulus relates to the Nimoy VOs and all the Romulan missions that folks probably play now right before they hit 50, due to the doff system.
S7 is about spitting in players faces. Cryptic asked community what it wants next for STO, most players voted on playable Romulus, but Cryptic served us destruction of Romulan Star Empire instead, probably forever burying chances of playing as a Romulan citizen.*
To me S7 is the worst thing that could ever happen to STO.
*Possibility of playing as a Unificationist in the future doesn't count. Unificationists turned their backs on everything that is romulan, in effect they are no longer Romulans. They have pointy ears and are mostly interested in studying flora, fauna and rocks - I think we should call them "Elves" and the New Planet (not going to call it New Romulus) should be called "Fairyland".
While I agree in principle with this post (because I would LOVE to play as a ROMULAN) let's be realistic about who / what served us the destruction of the Romulan Star Empire: Star Trek XI. I think Cryptic's actually done a decent job of taking what was essentially meant to be motivation for a one-movie bad guy and working with the actual consequences of Romulus's destruction. based on an interview with STO's writer Kestrel, it sounds like there was actually a lot of cool Romulan ideas, that got messed up when CBS said: "Oh by the way, that planet gets blown up. Work it into your story."
That being said, playable Romulans need to be their own faction, whether that means playing as Tal Shiar or peace guys (preferably both via a choice-based set of missions / powers). What absolutely CAN NOT happen is giving Romulans 10-20 levels of random stuff on New Romulus, then making them choose between KDF and Feds. As I said, an interview with Kestrel indicated that there was a LOT of cool Romulan content - why not add it? There's got to be a way to work it in somehow.
Players literally enter this game: "Hmm... ok the Borg are squishy and there is a war with the Klingons. And the Gorn. And the Orions. And the Nausicanns. And the Undine. And... war with everyone else."
Folks shouldn't have to read a novel or a long path to 2409 on a wiki to understand what is happening in the universe of STO.
sooo this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and <<<<Borg are squishy>>>> baaaahahahahaha!!!!!! you made my day
Comments
Don't give up hope yet - The cutscenes from the Romulan Reputation System will help get things back on track and lead up to the next chapter in Romulans / Iconians. Season 8 has a lot more story information that will move the story forward and focused back on Fed vs. KDF and how the Romulans are caught in between but perhaps a key component to what will ultimately resolve the KDF/Fed war.
I agree that it is is sort of all over the place with the addition of the Feature Episodes into the Episode logs, but we are making a serious effort over the next 3 seasons to correct this, starting with Season 7 and New Romulus.
LOL
If I said more to this, I'd get banned for sure. But that's the funniest joke I've read in ages. Thanks. I needed a good laugh.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
I hope so. Nothing about this war or the interaction between the two powers makes any kind of sense at the current point in time.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
Sure, the next season will always be the one with Story content ... the next FE will be 5 Grind Missions in a new tab (Season 8)... and everyone including Dstahl is gonna tell us ... "Season 9 will be new Epic Storytelling ..."
Stopped playing after Season 6, because lack of Story, and was hoping for a glorious return ... guess I have to support "Robert Space Industries" instead and get my hopes from there
Sorry but thats almosty cynical after telling us "Season 7" will all about new ways to advance Story Content yadda yadda ... why should we still believe in it ... Season 7 looks more like advancing an endless "Carrot on a
stick - Grindfest" ... to be continued with Season 8, 9 ....
Wow congrats, exactly the same statement from Season 7
but i think there is a shift in how story is told. it seems to be more picking up all the information and putting it together.
before there would be a FE series. it would be one story, split over 5 episodes and would have a beginning, middle and end for the most part. now it seems to be more open but a little less focused.
so we have the romulan people moving towards a new home, their leader trying to hold it all together, while the tal shiar plots and schemes. the tholians are stealing ships and have some clear interest in romulan technology and new romulus itself and certain clues would suggest they know about the iconians. Flavour text is brought by the NPC's around new romulus and there is more to unlock through the tiers. this could all be incorporated into a FE series, and fleshed out a little if they wanted, and you would have the exact same story.
every event mission and event is not just a random thing. there is a point to it, we might just not have all of the pieces yet. if you want it all in a linear way, and want to clearly see what is going on then its not as good as a FE. if you want to have the pieces fall into place as you go then there is some charm to the new way.
I think the important thing is to mix up how its presented. so that we get a mix of FE that have the story very much front and centre and adventures zones and events that add extra detail bit by bit.
We can't talk much about S8 yet, but I'm blown away by how epic it's going to be.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Probably not.
But that's the kind of area where I think they should have gotten an established Trek writer involved.
I think Kestrel put together a great timeline and some of her mission ideas are very nice. But she admits they never did a "series bible."
In turn, Geko says they were reluctant to work with a Trek writer because it would mean handing off control.
They could have had Kestrel do both the timeline and missions but had a Trek writer put together a series bible. And I can see what most of them would do. This is where you'd wind up seeing major character personalities fleshed out, politics and science thought through, etc.
I think Kestrel did put together a LOT of thought on what happened. I think she probably has a lot of ideas on HOW it happens behind the scenes. But I'm not sure she's really managing a lot of character psychologies so much as she's composing a history and I think she put most of her thought into the Romulan history, moreso than Fed or Klingon.
If they just had David Gerrold consult on a series bible design doc, I think he'd walk away telling you what President Aennik Okeg liked on his toast and why that sort of thing had a role in history. You'd know if he was warm or sour or a family man or a dashing Saurian bachelor.
With Kestrel, I think a lot of characters are placeholders to prop up a very researched story... and while Michael A. Martin did some unpacking, none of his contributions subsequently have been mentioned all that much in game. And he approached things as a novelist and a straight forward journalist, which is how Kestrel approaches things. When I think they'd benefit from having someone who writes for actors come in and look at all these characters like roles they'd want to sell actors on.
While I have been critical of how executions wind up looking in the past (alongside kirksplat here), I think Christine is an excellent writer and has put together a very well researched timeline.
However, I think she tends to view events from a "chess" perspective and stretches to detour down to the character psychology level only periodically. (And I think that realm is a place where Heinig lives more.)
I know there was talk about getting her an assistant. I'd suggest it be someone who isn't an assistant historian but more of an actor/playwright/director type. I think it could be frustrating in some ways but would also be rewarding. Not saying they wouldn't do research but rather than do research to justify items and plots, they'd go a step further and focus their research on making the individual characters have a bit more push and pull against the plot rather than all being perfect agents of it.
Drama happens when characters inhabit stories they fight against.
I know this sounds nuts but I think Heinig would agree with me if he saw this post.
Just anything to give these npcs something resembling a personality. I mean, it can't be rocket science.
A. We have a planet full of frontier, hardship, and sacrifice.
B. The characters should reflect those features.
You could incorporate every stock stereotype from a 1950s western here, and it would work much better. Where is the blunt and cranky doctor? Where are the outlaws, beyond random folks to kill? The disgruntled Union soldier stationed out here in Montana against his will? Is he on a quest for vengeance for the death of his sister? No, he just needs a slap on the back for morale.
"Hey there soldier, did you know that practice makes perfect?" Soldier: "Um, wow, sir, I never thought of it that way! That gives me so much motivation to dig this ditch in jungle humidity!"
Our frontiersmen and women in the field are just random quest givers or token exchangers. They have very no personalities. They are not characters. And, to top it all off, many of them don't even sound like Romulans.
I got to tier 1 the other day, and really enjoyed the cutscene, so that was cool.
One thing I have to say again, is that you don't need to make all new story content: A. repeatable and B. perfect.
I'm fine with playing more missions like the ones that were added early in the game. I'm actually already bored playing New Romulus - yes, it was cool, but having done it once, and gotten the background, the science info for the planet, tagging nanovs, I find myself not wanting to run around pressing F over and over again. Because that's what New Romulus is: running around pressing F. More storyline missions, please!
Additionally, there's this quote: "The perfect is the enemy of the good." You don't need to make every single new set of missions Featured Episode quality. They don't need voiceovers, they don't need new tech, they don't need new maps or new assets. Just get Kestrel to write something good, use existing assets, or heck, even the Foundry, and put it in game!
Edit: I should add that while I enjoyed the Tau Dewa patrols, doing the same thing over and over again is, again, not fun. Starbase 234 is interesting, because it presents a challenge, but other than that I'm not that into rehashing the same missions over and over.
Additionally, I can't seem to enter all the systems: is that intended, and I need to work up my Romulan rep?
Furthermore, while I appreciate bringing in some of the stuff from the TV shows, it sometimes seems like it's just meant to be a throwaway reference, rather than something more. Like the Acamarians: the story wasn't really continued in a meaningful way, we just learned that the clans were still fighting.
But the "Hidden Camera" cutscene is a hint in the right direction, and I hope we'll see more revealed in that. Even if it requires a lot of repetitive grinding to unlock it.
To me S7 is the worst thing that could ever happen to STO.
*Possibility of playing as a Unificationist in the future doesn't count. Unificationists turned their backs on everything that is romulan, in effect they are no longer Romulans. They have pointy ears and are mostly interested in studying flora, fauna and rocks - I think we should call them "Elves" and the New Planet (not going to call it New Romulus) should be called "Fairyland".
I live in an alternate universe, where j.j. abrams and cryptic never existed,
where R.S.E. is what it always should be.
i suport this 100 %
system Lord Baal is dead
Whatever this is, can you please explain it inside the game? I don't even know why we're at war with the Klingons in the first place, other than that B'vat guy has issues. And, I've played the Klingon missions like 4 times now.
Nothing is explained beyond a messiah who may be a hope for peace and that B'vat guy. The whole premise of this game (early on) was a KDF/Fed war.
The game doesn't really explain any of it, beyond a vague Nimoy VO and a few lines here and there.
Players literally enter this game: "Hmm... ok the Borg are squishy and there is a war with the Klingons. And the Gorn. And the Orions. And the Nausicanns. And the Undine. And... war with everyone else."
Folks shouldn't have to read a novel or a long path to 2409 on a wiki to understand what is happening in the universe of STO.
Revise, please. Revise with a big red pen. Most importantly, explain to the player how New Romulus relates to the Nimoy VOs and all the Romulan missions that folks probably play now right before they hit 50, due to the doff system.
While I agree in principle with this post (because I would LOVE to play as a ROMULAN) let's be realistic about who / what served us the destruction of the Romulan Star Empire: Star Trek XI. I think Cryptic's actually done a decent job of taking what was essentially meant to be motivation for a one-movie bad guy and working with the actual consequences of Romulus's destruction. based on an interview with STO's writer Kestrel, it sounds like there was actually a lot of cool Romulan ideas, that got messed up when CBS said: "Oh by the way, that planet gets blown up. Work it into your story."
That being said, playable Romulans need to be their own faction, whether that means playing as Tal Shiar or peace guys (preferably both via a choice-based set of missions / powers). What absolutely CAN NOT happen is giving Romulans 10-20 levels of random stuff on New Romulus, then making them choose between KDF and Feds. As I said, an interview with Kestrel indicated that there was a LOT of cool Romulan content - why not add it? There's got to be a way to work it in somehow.
sooo this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and <<<<Borg are squishy>>>> baaaahahahahaha!!!!!! you made my day
system Lord Baal is dead