FASA's been a dead entity since before the end of the last century, but their properties are still hanging on in the hands of various owners.
And it seems to be a license that has power from "beyond the grave".
Stephen V Cole, the guy who runs SFB, once gave a drastic example on the Star Fleet Battles forums:
If someone were to post for example an SSD of a converted FASA ship like the Loknar on his forums, he'd have no choice but to remove it or he could end up being sued for breaking copyright laws.
And he emphasized he had to pay lawyers to tell him that.
So while it's okay to do a conversion and post it up on your own site, it's not cool to do so on "his" forums since it's a commercial one.
They should add the other canon versions of the Neghvar as skins.
Yeah the issue is I wouldn't mind if they cut and pasted the fleet vor'cha for a negh'var variant I just was more into the Negh'Var look than the vor'cha once they showed the Negh'Var in the series. Not to mention they need to fill the void of the design ships of the absorbed empires that now make up the KDF like the Orion, Nausicaans, Gorn, Lethean, Etc.
Yeah the issue is I wouldn't mind if they cut and pasted the fleet vor'cha for a negh'var variant I just was more into the Negh'Var look than the vor'cha once they showed the Negh'Var in the series. Not to mention they need to fill the void of the design ships of the absorbed empires that now make up the KDF like the Orion, Nausicaans, Gorn, Lethean, Etc.
I forgot about the Orions, as pirates and mercs their ships would be composites of open market gear and captured components so I see something similar to a bugship in layout with a bridge full of universals.
I forgot about the Orions, as pirates and mercs their ships would be composites of open market gear and captured components so I see something similar to a bugship in layout with a bridge full of universals.
You're giving me an odd idea:
the Orion ships we currently have are all...Orion.
I mean they were appearently all properly designed and built either by the Orions or for them.
What we currently don't have are ships that are externally made up of captured or perhaps discarded and refurbished parts.
I think something like that would be interesting.
Something like this:
but perhaps with outdated parts of non-fighter ships from major factions.
Like a D-5 hull, Constitution refit nacelles and a Bird of Prey command section, all painted in proper Orion green.
the Orion ships we currently have are all...Orion.
I mean they were appearently all properly designed and built either by the Orions or for them.
What we currently don't have are ships that are externally made up of captured or perhaps discarded and refurbished parts.
I think something like that would be interesting.
Something like this:
but perhaps with outdated parts of non-fighter ships from major factions.
Like a D-5 hull, Constitution refit nacelles and a Bird of Prey command section, all painted in proper Orion green.
Thats kinda what I was thinking- starships composed of an assortment of mis-matched parts, like the Reavers ships in firefly.
Nope. The Hoh'sus is an entirely separate design that shares a Bridge Officer layout with the Hegh'ta.
(as the owner of both Fleet BoPs, a B'rel, and a Hegh'ta...the two are NOT the same bird, anymore than a Defiant is a sabre.)
The Hoh'sus is something you buy for the stats, and only the Stats, the model was made as the pet for the Bortas/Bortasque, teh separate ship is an afterthought, and looks like it.
Ah, I was thinking on function not so much the look of it. For Looks my favorite is the classic B'rel.
Sadly I've developed my love of Klingon starships from non-canon sources (SFB,SFC, klingon academy, etc) and have no love for the canon ships. Until STO breaks away from on-screen canon we'll only get the same old TRIBBLE we have now. No SuvwI'QeH, no voDleH class, no pumwI'-class. Instead we'll get BoP's that dwarfs D7's in size, more Negh'Vars and vorcha's.
The D5 would be nice, as well as an upgrade to the Koro'T'inga.
I was thinking about which ships were my favourites just a few days ago.
Aside from the K't'inga, a lot of them were Interplay and FASA designs.
And when I thought about the reason: those were for the most part the ships that broke the mold to one degree or another:
The voDleH from Klingon Academy (4 nacelles, a rather "strong" neck), the Riskadh from FASA (an interesting main hull design), the Romulan Sparrowhawk from SFC (just beautiful, yet defies decription somewhat).
I also very much like the QuD Bird of Prey.
Interestingly enough if both KA and STO were canon, I think we could draw a design lineage from the QuD to the Norgh, they both have similar features.
While there are Cryptic ships that break the mold a bit as well, I feel they often have too few familiar elements that allow me to connect them with the ships they were derived from.
That's probably why the Norgh is my favourite Cryptic BoP, it has it own distinctive features, but it still retains enough from the B'rel to be recogizable without resorting to the method I have to use for many of the others which is "if it has wings, it's a BoP".
And I think Cryptic needs to find a middle ground between slightly altering a familiar design and changing it so much it's barely identifiable as a Klingon ship.
I'm actually quite happy with the fleet Vorcha/Vorkang also called Tor'Kaht's performance. However I don't get why inspite of having the lower tier Vor'kang bought still requires you to have FOUR bloody ship modules to buy the Tor'Kaht... nice way to TRIBBLE KDF over.... I now understand why some players can get a little cynical at what KDF is promised and what they get.
Sooo... I wudnt be surprised if the Flt Varanus or Flt Karfi are just slightly re-moddled but essentially the same ship with better specs but still costing you 4 modules to buy.
We still live!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaa! We live and we will conquer!!!!! Hahahahahaaha!
-Roach, when asked about Klingon extinction!
Thinking about what is, in fact, still "Uniquely Klingon", they really only have ONE type of ship that is "uniquely Klingon" in the game-as in something that the Klingons actually manage to DO better than everyone else.
Klingon Cruisers are Fat raptors, or Raptors are skinny Cruisers, take your pick (except the Bortasque, which is, to my eyes, a Klingon attempt at a semi-mobile Starfleet-style command post vessel, and the Vo'quv, which is obviously the real base-chassis for it.)
What Klingon designers and engineers build, better than everyone else, is the multipurpose special operations or "Raider" type ship.
aka the Bird of Prey, which does NOT function well in the stand-up, set-piece battle structure favoured by the Federation, Breen, Tholians, Cardassians, Dominion...what it excels at, is the assassination mission, the deep strike mission, the "I sneak behind your fixed defenses, and pull your underpants over your head before breaking your spine." missions.
Bird of Prey design and use, typifies the "Your fortress walls are no obstacle" type of tactical mission, the "Yes, you made it very hard to get in, now let me demonstrate to you how you made it even HARDER for you to escape."
For those that discount KDF's intelligence capabilities, think on thus: During the Dominion War, Federation intel had NO IDEA that the Cardies (any of them) were collaborating with the Dominion. NONE. KDF knew that people high in the Cardy government were compromised-and acted on that knowledge to the shock and horror of the blissly naive Federation. In STO canon, it was the KDF, not Starfleet or Section 31, that detected the infiltration and compromise of the Gorn Hierarchy by the Undine. this was not a fluke. A warrior who knows nothing of his enemy will be defeated, and the wind does not respect a fool.
Yeah, we don't have the best technologies, we don't have shiny, purpose-built elint vessels, but the Bird of Prey is THE special forces ship. It's atmosphere capable, stealthy, long-ranged, well armed, flexible, and effective.
And honestly, nobody else has anything that works in its mission set as well as it does, yet it works as well pulling combat-escort and strike missions as any 'superior', better armed and shielded, heavier hulled vessel out there.
all we really need, is a BoP with some minor improvements-these can be as simple as an improvement in build quality and systems efficiency. The Norgh (Fleet variant) and derivative Hoh'sus point the way here-we just need to get the yards following it.
I agree for the most part...except the Bird of Prey is NOT long-ranged.
For that the ship is simply too small/has too much crew for its size.
But yes if we can't get anything else (even though I still hope Cryptic will take my scout concept into consideration) the simplest solution would be to give us fllet-level ships with different console setups.
The Fleet Hoh'SuS has 4 tac consoles, so science and engineering oriented BoP variants should be a no-brainer.
My vote: Fleet K'Tanco Retrofit. There's no cruiser in the Tier III Klingon shipyard, an oversight I'd like to see addressed. I see the LTC K'Tanco in the non-fleet shipyard, and I like its design.
Some theoretical specs:
Fleet K'Tanco Battlecruiser Retrofit
Hull: 34,000
Shield mod: 1.0
Turn rate: 13
Weapons: 4 fore, 4 aft
+10 to weapons and engines
Dual Cannons
Standard Cloak
Commander Engineer, Lt. Commander Tactical, Lt. Engineer, Lt. Tactical, Ensign Science.
Five Engineering consoles, four Tactical consoles, one Science console.
The main two I'd like to see are the k'vort, and neh'var refit.
The k'vort should be a larger version of the bop, and would fit well as a KDF escort counterpart.
The neg'var refit should come with a console, a disruptor verson of the galaxy-R lance would be nice and a costume option for the wing mounted pods as seen on the future version in "all good things"
PumwI' class Dreadnought or
QuD class Heavy Destroyer
They should come with a special console called "Blood Rage" Which channels all of the KDF's anger, hate and dissatisfaction at Cryptic into extra Subsystem Power, Weapon Damage, Accuracy and Turn Rate.
Oh and should be free as KDF do not have sufficient "free" ship choice already.
PumwI' class Dreadnought or
QuD class Heavy Destroyer
They should come with a special console called "Blood Rage" Which channels all of the KDF's anger, hate and dissatisfaction at Cryptic into extra Subsystem Power, Weapon Damage, Accuracy and Turn Rate.
Oh and should be free as KDF do not have sufficient "free" ship choice already.
Those would certainly be cool, but in one of the "Ask Crytic"s someone asked for a Premonition class from Star Trek Armada and dstahl said they can't use stuff from other games.
I just written that because a IP never really just enters public domain, someone somewhere owns it ... at least in the US.
True enough. Though I certainly hope that MS does not have thier hands on it now. They ruined Shadowrun with thier rendition of the game as a 1st person shooter with little else taken from the IP.
A shame it's so weak, it's unusable end-game. As for Cryptis using other games ships I'm sure defunct companys like interplay might sell their designs dirt cheap. But if Cryptic/CBS is insistent about using canon ships- we're skrewed.
I think I've read that somewhere in the STO Wiki too, but it's a wiki and everything there should be taken with a grai...strike that, a truckload of salt.
Whether it's a D4 or D6 doesn't really matter since it's supposed to be more advanced than the K't'inga and that's nonsense either way.
In any case, when you take closer look it's the exact same ship.
But shouldn't the skin be available on the Fleet K't'inga since it's a T3 battlecruiser, just like the Vor'kang skin is available in the Vor'cha Retro and the Fleet Vor'cha/Tor'kaht when you have it purchased?
As for Cryptis using other games ships I'm sure defunct companys like interplay might sell their designs dirt cheap. But if Cryptic/CBS is insistent about using canon ships- we're skrewed.
HMM, that's a good question.
Would it be cheaper to buy them than to build new ships themselves?
If so why the heck has nobody ever done it?
Why for example does Star Fleet Command 3 not contain even a single Interplay ship from SFC2?
And thinking of it, Cryptic would still need to rebuild them.
The models from Klingon Academy for example are unusable outside the KA engine since they contain the damaged parts in the same model.
This creates severe clipping errors.
A few years back I tried to convert the Emperor from Klingon Academy for BotF (after extracting the KA.DAT with the extractor for Fallout 1, they use the same format), in the end I completely rebuilt the model since it was impossible to convert.
And it seems Interplay is not as defunct as one might think;)
But shouldn't the skin be available on the Fleet K't'inga since it's a T3 battlecruiser, just like the Vor'kang skin is available in the Vor'cha Retro and the Fleet Vor'cha/Tor'kaht when you have it purchased?
I thought about trying it out, but for the zen price of all the pieces it wasn't worth my time grinding, for a ship unusable by my tac/pvp toon.
I even feel guilty about buying that klink fighter this weekend as the free toron is more than it's match, but the fighter sure is fun to fly.
I've been frustrating by the surprising lack of selection for Klingon Tac Cap's at Level 40 when I visit the shipyards; partly one of the reasons I started this thread...
I honestly did not expect as many responses and now that the Holiday is over and I've had a chance to read through the thread, I must say I'm surprised and quite pleased with everyone's replies here, and more so surprised to see it still at the top of the forum!
Yes, absolutely more Gorn and Orion ships as well... I've noticed some of you pointing out the number of these that exist within the Game which are not playable.
Are there any Gorn and Orion ships that have been depicted on screen or in any of the official books that, that is not in the game, anyone knows of?
I was just as frustrated with my lack of options at Level 30. There were in my opinion only 2 ships that fit my play style; the Pach Raptor and the Scourge Destroyer... and I chose to go with the Scourge. Now, getting close to Level 40, I'm noticing that there really is nothing really available as a comparable upgrade from that Destroy, other then going back to the only Raptor available at Level 40... and that, is likely going to end up being my last Klingon ship for a very long time considering ya don't get another 'freebie' ship at Level 50 and I likely won't be able to but any more C-Store ships for along while yet...
I would love to see a D5 or D6 variant added at some point...
Comments
Seems the FASA license is kinda like a squirrel on meth...not so easy to keep track of.
And it seems to be a license that has power from "beyond the grave".
Stephen V Cole, the guy who runs SFB, once gave a drastic example on the Star Fleet Battles forums:
If someone were to post for example an SSD of a converted FASA ship like the Loknar on his forums, he'd have no choice but to remove it or he could end up being sued for breaking copyright laws.
And he emphasized he had to pay lawyers to tell him that.
So while it's okay to do a conversion and post it up on your own site, it's not cool to do so on "his" forums since it's a commercial one.
Yeah the issue is I wouldn't mind if they cut and pasted the fleet vor'cha for a negh'var variant I just was more into the Negh'Var look than the vor'cha once they showed the Negh'Var in the series. Not to mention they need to fill the void of the design ships of the absorbed empires that now make up the KDF like the Orion, Nausicaans, Gorn, Lethean, Etc.
I forgot about the Orions, as pirates and mercs their ships would be composites of open market gear and captured components so I see something similar to a bugship in layout with a bridge full of universals.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
You're giving me an odd idea:
the Orion ships we currently have are all...Orion.
I mean they were appearently all properly designed and built either by the Orions or for them.
What we currently don't have are ships that are externally made up of captured or perhaps discarded and refurbished parts.
I think something like that would be interesting.
Something like this:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ugly
but perhaps with outdated parts of non-fighter ships from major factions.
Like a D-5 hull, Constitution refit nacelles and a Bird of Prey command section, all painted in proper Orion green.
Thats kinda what I was thinking- starships composed of an assortment of mis-matched parts, like the Reavers ships in firefly.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Ah, I thought you were referring to the internal arrangement.:)
Well, that too.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
R.I.P
R.I.P
I was thinking about which ships were my favourites just a few days ago.
Aside from the K't'inga, a lot of them were Interplay and FASA designs.
And when I thought about the reason: those were for the most part the ships that broke the mold to one degree or another:
The voDleH from Klingon Academy (4 nacelles, a rather "strong" neck), the Riskadh from FASA (an interesting main hull design), the Romulan Sparrowhawk from SFC (just beautiful, yet defies decription somewhat).
I also very much like the QuD Bird of Prey.
Interestingly enough if both KA and STO were canon, I think we could draw a design lineage from the QuD to the Norgh, they both have similar features.
While there are Cryptic ships that break the mold a bit as well, I feel they often have too few familiar elements that allow me to connect them with the ships they were derived from.
That's probably why the Norgh is my favourite Cryptic BoP, it has it own distinctive features, but it still retains enough from the B'rel to be recogizable without resorting to the method I have to use for many of the others which is "if it has wings, it's a BoP".
And I think Cryptic needs to find a middle ground between slightly altering a familiar design and changing it so much it's barely identifiable as a Klingon ship.
^ This
That was easy...
Sooo... I wudnt be surprised if the Flt Varanus or Flt Karfi are just slightly re-moddled but essentially the same ship with better specs but still costing you 4 modules to buy.
We still live!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaa! We live and we will conquer!!!!! Hahahahahaaha!
-Roach, when asked about Klingon extinction!
I agree for the most part...except the Bird of Prey is NOT long-ranged.
For that the ship is simply too small/has too much crew for its size.
But yes if we can't get anything else (even though I still hope Cryptic will take my scout concept into consideration) the simplest solution would be to give us fllet-level ships with different console setups.
The Fleet Hoh'SuS has 4 tac consoles, so science and engineering oriented BoP variants should be a no-brainer.
My vote: Fleet K'Tanco Retrofit. There's no cruiser in the Tier III Klingon shipyard, an oversight I'd like to see addressed. I see the LTC K'Tanco in the non-fleet shipyard, and I like its design.
Some theoretical specs:
Fleet K'Tanco Battlecruiser Retrofit
Hull: 34,000
Shield mod: 1.0
Turn rate: 13
Weapons: 4 fore, 4 aft
+10 to weapons and engines
Dual Cannons
Standard Cloak
Commander Engineer, Lt. Commander Tactical, Lt. Engineer, Lt. Tactical, Ensign Science.
Five Engineering consoles, four Tactical consoles, one Science console.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
The k'vort should be a larger version of the bop, and would fit well as a KDF escort counterpart.
The neg'var refit should come with a console, a disruptor verson of the galaxy-R lance would be nice and a costume option for the wing mounted pods as seen on the future version in "all good things"
Could use some of the TOS/TMP era designs from Star Trek: Legacy and give them a 25th century overhaul.
QuD class Heavy Destroyer
They should come with a special console called "Blood Rage" Which channels all of the KDF's anger, hate and dissatisfaction at Cryptic into extra Subsystem Power, Weapon Damage, Accuracy and Turn Rate.
Oh and should be free as KDF do not have sufficient "free" ship choice already.
What Cryptic should consider before releasing anything.
Those would certainly be cool, but in one of the "Ask Crytic"s someone asked for a Premonition class from Star Trek Armada and dstahl said they can't use stuff from other games.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
True enough. Though I certainly hope that MS does not have thier hands on it now. They ruined Shadowrun with thier rendition of the game as a 1st person shooter with little else taken from the IP.
R.I.P
The Klingon D4 (was replaced by a D7 model in ENT:Unexpected episode )
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081006224454/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/8/8b/D5_class_battlecruiser%2C_aft.jpg/292px-D5_class_battlecruiser%2C_aft.jpg
The Klingon D5 from ENT:Marauders
:cool:
...Just NO MORE healer cruisers PLEASE !!!
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
We already got that, it's the Koro't'inga.:)
Thought that was a D6, my bad.
A shame it's so weak, it's unusable end-game. As for Cryptis using other games ships I'm sure defunct companys like interplay might sell their designs dirt cheap. But if Cryptic/CBS is insistent about using canon ships- we're skrewed.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I think I've read that somewhere in the STO Wiki too, but it's a wiki and everything there should be taken with a grai...strike that, a truckload of salt.
Whether it's a D4 or D6 doesn't really matter since it's supposed to be more advanced than the K't'inga and that's nonsense either way.
In any case, when you take closer look it's the exact same ship.
But shouldn't the skin be available on the Fleet K't'inga since it's a T3 battlecruiser, just like the Vor'kang skin is available in the Vor'cha Retro and the Fleet Vor'cha/Tor'kaht when you have it purchased?
HMM, that's a good question.
Would it be cheaper to buy them than to build new ships themselves?
If so why the heck has nobody ever done it?
Why for example does Star Fleet Command 3 not contain even a single Interplay ship from SFC2?
And thinking of it, Cryptic would still need to rebuild them.
The models from Klingon Academy for example are unusable outside the KA engine since they contain the damaged parts in the same model.
This creates severe clipping errors.
A few years back I tried to convert the Emperor from Klingon Academy for BotF (after extracting the KA.DAT with the extractor for Fallout 1, they use the same format), in the end I completely rebuilt the model since it was impossible to convert.
And it seems Interplay is not as defunct as one might think;)
http://www.interplay.com/games/comingsoon.php
I thought about trying it out, but for the zen price of all the pieces it wasn't worth my time grinding, for a ship unusable by my tac/pvp toon.
I even feel guilty about buying that klink fighter this weekend as the free toron is more than it's match, but the fighter sure is fun to fly.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Okay, I just checked and I can confirm, the Kor't'inga would be available on the Fleet K't'inga
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7585/fleetktinga.jpg
Question would be whether you'd want it with the Fleet K't'inga's stats or not...
I've been frustrating by the surprising lack of selection for Klingon Tac Cap's at Level 40 when I visit the shipyards; partly one of the reasons I started this thread...
I honestly did not expect as many responses and now that the Holiday is over and I've had a chance to read through the thread, I must say I'm surprised and quite pleased with everyone's replies here, and more so surprised to see it still at the top of the forum!
Yes, absolutely more Gorn and Orion ships as well... I've noticed some of you pointing out the number of these that exist within the Game which are not playable.
Are there any Gorn and Orion ships that have been depicted on screen or in any of the official books that, that is not in the game, anyone knows of?
I was just as frustrated with my lack of options at Level 30. There were in my opinion only 2 ships that fit my play style; the Pach Raptor and the Scourge Destroyer... and I chose to go with the Scourge. Now, getting close to Level 40, I'm noticing that there really is nothing really available as a comparable upgrade from that Destroy, other then going back to the only Raptor available at Level 40... and that, is likely going to end up being my last Klingon ship for a very long time considering ya don't get another 'freebie' ship at Level 50 and I likely won't be able to but any more C-Store ships for along while yet...
I would love to see a D5 or D6 variant added at some point...
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Nausicaan_raider
Good thing is: a) its canon b) it's already ingame as destroyer escort for NPC's.