Oh complaining won't work? Lets hope we see some real attempt to ameliorate our concerns.
(though I don't think it's our complaints more the total drop off in play time and death of STF queues)
Well let's hope it's a change that is for the good of this game. Not all of us have the free time to put in 3-4 hours a day, sometimes I don't even get time for 1 hour. Let's hope Mr Stahl gets these issues fixed.......
At least change is forthcoming, if the above twitter post is to be believed. Now, exactly WHAT direction that change is, or how much may be changed, is yet to be seen.
Oh, to be a fly on the wall at dev meetings.
Riiight! I would kill to know what they're thinking sometimes.
The battle is turning in our favor! But remain vigilant! We know not what they intend to do, only that they intend to do something. Stay the course! Raise a mighty noise if you are still unsatisfied!
But most importantly, let this stand as proof! Proof that when a community's opinion is truly united, we can force change!
Well fought! Now fight on! Qapla'!
THIS.
And hopefully lowers the time needed for Foundry missions. No, I am not saying let the quickies earn again but I think the time should be shortened just a little bit. Otherwise it limits some missions from becoming worthless even though they shouldn't be.
___________________
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
I really hope it helps turn around what has become a fiasco. Putting come of these changes in was bad enough, given the additional Dilithium sinks with Season 7. Not telling the players about it beforehand was just plain insincere, and I think the biggest insult to many players; especially in a game that touts more transparency than other MMOs.
Even if they do reverse some of the changes, especially in regards to STFs, their reputation with current players will certainly be tarnished with what many can honestly say without a terrible amount of hyperbole was a "stealth nerf".
Too bad they didn't listen when it was on Tribble, huh? They had to wait for more people to see the issue on live to realize it's a problem.
___________________
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Well this will go down in history as dil-gate for more reasons than one, lets keep our fingers crossed and hope the solution is to put 980 dil back into STF's. Also a reduction in Doff grinder dil costs
My honest guess is that if there wasn't a huge drop off in people playing STF's today they it'd be business as usual for the devs. I think they've realized the ramifications of their actions.
its good that i wait til s7 to decide to buy a lts,
foundry short missis out - btran out - stfs now only reduced instead of complete out and most stuff cost much dili - and with these changes you will make the players to get more dili - rofl
no lts for me - good luck with these decisions
Short answer ? Dilithium Ore is available as a reward directly from STFs and Fleet Action runs, and indirectly from Reputation projects. If you want to know more, then please read on.
But first, before we get to the changes in Season 7, let me take the opportunity to give some details about Dilithium.
Fleet Actions now reward Dilithium in addition to Better Gear*
Fleet Actions (such as Starbase 24, Gorn Minefield, etc) now award between 480 and 640 Dilithium (this will be in flux as we adjust rates) to ensure that the average level 50 player is earning more Dilithium by playing missions more accessible to the average player. In addition, Blue and Purple gear is now more reliably earned in Fleet Actions.
Normal STFs*:
480 Dilithium
Approx. 20 Omega Mark per STF (Varies per STF)
Bonus Objective: +25% more Omega Marks
Elite STF Runs*:
960 Dilithium
Approx. 60 Omega Mark per STF (Varies per STF)
Bonus Objective: +25% more Omega Marks
1 Borg Neural Processors
Ok so Dilithium has been re-added to STF's at lower rate now (Great). But they've now reduced the Dilithium rewards on the Fleet Actions? So essentially we're still only earning the same amount as before, but it's split across Fleet Actions and STF's. Targets are still the same though for Projects etc.
Well, I suppose it's something. Not really the fix I was hoping for. Don't get me wrong I don't expect it to be made so everything falls in our laps (like some people have suggested that is what we want), but at the same time I do expect realistic targets that are fair to all players including F2P, Gold, Lifers and people with a family, full time job etc.
I just hope this all doesn't go sour, as I only recently purchased a LTS for my wife. Guess I'll have to wait and see.
Reserving judgement until the announcement is made.
@dstahl/bran: your move. You've got a real opportunity here to make S7 shine.
They;ve updated #17 blog
leet Actions now reward Dilithium in addition to Better Gear*
Fleet Actions (such as Starbase 24, Gorn Minefield, etc) now award between 480 and 640 Dilithium (this will be in flux as we adjust rates) to ensure that the average level 50 player is earning more Dilithium by playing missions more accessible to the average player. In addition, Blue and Purple gear is now more reliably earned in Fleet Actions.
Smaller Dilithium rewards per STF runs and now indirectly via Omega Fleet Reputation projects*
After reviewing our data and goals for Season 7, we?ve made the decision to reduce the amount of Dilithium that is direct reward from STFs. While we initially removed it altogether, the Omega Fleet predates the Reputation system and so we?ve reinstated Dilithium as a reward per run, albeit at a lesser rate. We?ve agreed that it is ok for Omega Fleet related missions to grants Dilithium whereas other Reputation related missions may not. In addition, STFs will reward Dilithium indirectly via Omega Marks and Borg Neural Processors (Elite only) through repeatable projects in the Omega Fleet Reputation system.
Normal STFs*:
480 Dilithium
Approx. 20 Omega Mark per STF (Varies per STF)
Bonus Objective: +25% more Omega Marks
Elite STF Runs*:
960 Dilithium
Approx. 60 Omega Mark per STF (Varies per STF)
Bonus Objective: +25% more Omega Marks
1 Borg Neural Processors
They nerfed Fleet actions a little, but we now have 960 dil back into STF's not perfect by so so so much better I can now have a life an dplay this game. \0/
I would advise people to don't count your coup just yet. We still don't know what they are going to say/do. It may be no better than what is currently in teh game.
You know, instead of merely updating an old Dev Blog, how about you devote a new one with these Dilithium updates, and an apology for this debacle and the appalling way in which you treated your players?
Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, there's one thing that may have been overlooked:
The "STF days" on the calendar, has been entirely removed. So there's one avenue of "bonus dilithium" that has been completely cut off.
And reading the updated blog post, shows they are still being rather lackluster in how they reward us for playing their content. So, I suppose returning "some" of the Dilithium to STFs is a step in the right direction. But reducing the amount in Fleet Actions, just puts us back at square one.
The conversion of Omega Marks and Borg Neural Processors to Dilithium, remain PITIFUL. 5 Elite STFs to get 1000 Dilithium??? Whereas in S6, we got 1100 Dilithium PER RUN.
I'm happy with the decision to put dillithium back in the STF rewards since we now need it to purchase the gear. It was not fair for us to have received Dillithium all this time and then take it away now when it is required.
I have no complaints on the issue at this point.
Thanks for entertaining the player comments and choosing to modify the reward structure to suit the new reputation.
It means more than you know...
Why are there so many people not understanding the dev blog?
I mean, really, people. It is not less dilithium, it is just aquired a bit differently. Calm down.
By acquired differently, you must be speaking about the Zen-to-Dil exchange. I've watched those prices plummet from 300+ in pre-S6 to 100 - 150 near S7 launch.
With this, the conversion rate is going to hover closer to 25. Sorry, but I'm not going to pay for DStahl's new latinum-plated mansion.
F2P is an acronym for Free to Play, not Free to Pay...
... Did we not just have several weeks of testing on Tribble to provide feedback for just this sort of change? Were we not told that STFs would still grant ~950 dilithium a run?
How can you expect us to trust you, and as a result *want* to work with you to support this game, if you're as deceptive here as you have been? Frankly Cryptic suck on this one.
If Cryptic is going to use Ferengi buisness ethics, they need to learn how to be better Ferengi. No Ferengi would EVER lie, cheat, and utterly TRIBBLE over their customers in the way that Cryptic is right now. It's a good way to become a dead "entrepreneur".
I'm just waiting for the national news headlines: "Game Programmers slaughtered, 13-year old gunman in custody await psychiatric evaluation."
They nerfed Fleet actions a little, but we now have 960 dil back into STF's not perfect by so so so much better I can now have a life an dplay this game. \0/
Noted, and much more amicable. Not as much as before, but with Omega Mark conversions and rewards from other Fleet Actions to compensate, it's a fair compromise, IMPO.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
Even on Tribble, there was some reward; not as big as people would have wanted, but still a reward. When it went live, no reward.
480 > 0.
Edit:
Noted, and much more amicable. Not as much as before, but with Omega Mark conversions and rewards from other Fleet Actions to compensate, it's a fair compromise, IMPO.
I have a feeling Al' Gekco is getting a telling off...
You know, instead of merely updating an old Dev Blog, how about you devote a new one with these Dilithium updates, and an apology for this debacle and the appalling way in which you treated your players?
This would also go a little way to showing you're actually apologetic over this and care an ounce for and respect your players.
While I am a heavy STF player, it's a shame the fleet mission dilithium rates are dropping so much as at the moment it is a viable alternative to those who don't play STF's.
Why not give it similar dilithium to STF's and similar cooldown. Dilithium per hour will be the same as your new plan and while players are on cool down they can nip off to get their FM's/RM's etc
I'm pretty sure my comment will get lost in all other comments, and i'm also pretty sure the devs not actually give 2 cents about players though or CUSTOMER's thoughts but...
"The STO team has consistently ensured that there is enough missions and systems in the game that any player should be able to earn 8000 Dilithium per day if they focus on Dilithium based missions for about 4 hours. By the way, the average level 50 player plays approximately 3.5 hours on a given day."
Now dear STO team, of advanced ppl that actually THINK before copy/pasting a message :P The average level 50 player plays 3.5 hours, thus by grandious thinking you decided to make it 4 hours to get the needed dilithium PER 1 day.... Now would that level 50 player have any omega, romulan, fleet marks? NO. Would that player NEED (or wish) to buy ZEN to purchase more ships, make more characters, get more doffs? NO - because he has NO TIME to actually use them.
Have you considered that for players with 4-5 chars of lvl 50, that means 20 hours a day to just get THE DILITHIUM? Obviously not... now disregarding the slap on the face of ppl that bought ZEN and supported this game, by buying new ships, making new chars to RPG with them as a MMORPG should actually be... you ppl did a great thing, myself, my friends and most of your players will no longer buy any ZEN because it's useless... i wanted to buy myself the new VESTA, but i will not, why buy that ship? to grind SB 24 with it? i can do that in a free lvl 40 ship... why make myself a romulan character? To have no time to play it? No thanks!
Great thinking, ppl don't refine as much dilithium as we want, let's remove it all....
Please feel free to add the "game" and economy statistics in about 2 weeks time... would be nice to see how your profit halven and you player base is 40% smaller.... Great new season!
Oh and....
"To sum it up ? we expect it to take several months of playing the game regularly for several hours per session in order to outfit a captain and crew with the best gear in the game."
In case you didn't know it's a GAME, we play it for fun not as a lifestyle. I guess we can add STO in our long term plans, next year i get married, then have a child, by he/she is 1 year old i will have MACO set, it will be a hell of a party!!!
btran gone, foundry quickies gone, stfs reduced, horrible costs for exchanging dutys and so on
Thanks for reminding me of the new DOff exchange prices at the Academies. They didn't end up changing that? Ack, I always personally felt that was a cash grab to sell more DOff packs.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
We?ve agreed that it is ok for Omega Fleet related missions to grants Dilithium whereas other Reputation related missions may not. In addition, STFs will reward Dilithium indirectly via Omega Marks and Borg Neural Processors (Elite only) through repeatable projects in the Omega Fleet Reputation system.
Normal STFs*:
* 480 Dilithium
* Approx. 20 Omega Mark per STF (Varies per STF)
* Bonus Objective: +25% more Omega Marks
Elite STF Runs*:
* 960 Dilithium
* Approx. 60 Omega Mark per STF (Varies per STF)
* Bonus Objective: +25% more Omega Marks
* 1 Borg Neural Processors
Conversion Rates:
* Once you have finished Tier 5 in a Reputation systems, you can convert Omega or Romulan Marks into Dilithium by running Reputation projects:
o 50 Marks = 500 Dilithium
* At any tier in the Omega Reputation system, you can convert Borg Neural Processors into Dilithium by running Reputation projects:
o 10 Borg Neural Processors = 1000 Dilithium
So, you need to make tier 5 to convert the omega marks to dilith, but can conver BNP's at any level- BUT they both can be converted only by running projects. Whats the cost of these projects ?
Any guess to how much it'll cost to get to T5 rep to convert that OM into dilith? 100k IIRC.
960 Dilithium
Approx. 60 Omega Mark per STF (Varies per STF)
Bonus Objective: +25% more Omega Marks
1 Borg Neural Processors"
What was said.
"Elite STF Runs*:
Approx. 60 Omega Mark per STF (Varies per STF)
Bonus Objective: +25% more Omega Marks
1 Borg Neural Processors"
What you actually get. Well done. I have never before said cryptic or PWE lied to us straight to our faces. I have often just sat back and enjoyed the fireworks. But this time... Let's see... supposed to get 960 dil per ESTF. What do I get? Zilch.
Yeah. This time I draw the line. You lied to us. I don't know why, I don't care why. The fact remains that you did it. Well. Bloody. Done.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
It's nice to see Cryptic respond to the stf community and compromise.
I do really wish that they had also taken the foundry feedback into consideration. Maybe they will once they are sure that their anti-exploit tech works.
Over an hour of playing the Foundry wrapper = 1440 dilithium
An hour of normal stfs = 1920
An hour of elite stfs = 3840
And that's not even counting all the additional goodies like OMs.
Please consider adjusting the wrapper rewards, if the fix prevents exploits. Some of us like stories better than waves of bad guys.
Comments
Well let's hope it's a change that is for the good of this game. Not all of us have the free time to put in 3-4 hours a day, sometimes I don't even get time for 1 hour. Let's hope Mr Stahl gets these issues fixed.......
Never Give Up! Never Surrender!
(Galaxy Quest)
Riiight! I would kill to know what they're thinking sometimes.
THIS.
And hopefully lowers the time needed for Foundry missions. No, I am not saying let the quickies earn again but I think the time should be shortened just a little bit. Otherwise it limits some missions from becoming worthless even though they shouldn't be.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Too bad they didn't listen when it was on Tribble, huh? They had to wait for more people to see the issue on live to realize it's a problem.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
My honest guess is that if there wasn't a huge drop off in people playing STF's today they it'd be business as usual for the devs. I think they've realized the ramifications of their actions.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
@dstahl/bran: your move. You've got a real opportunity here to make S7 shine.
foundry short missis out - btran out - stfs now only reduced instead of complete out and most stuff cost much dili - and with these changes you will make the players to get more dili - rofl
no lts for me - good luck with these decisions
Ok so Dilithium has been re-added to STF's at lower rate now (Great). But they've now reduced the Dilithium rewards on the Fleet Actions? So essentially we're still only earning the same amount as before, but it's split across Fleet Actions and STF's. Targets are still the same though for Projects etc.
Well, I suppose it's something. Not really the fix I was hoping for. Don't get me wrong I don't expect it to be made so everything falls in our laps (like some people have suggested that is what we want), but at the same time I do expect realistic targets that are fair to all players including F2P, Gold, Lifers and people with a family, full time job etc.
I just hope this all doesn't go sour, as I only recently purchased a LTS for my wife. Guess I'll have to wait and see.
Agreed!
Don't give us content and take away the resources to get it.
Dorlin: Level 65 GF/2nd Account: Calias/62
Elkysium: Level 65 CW/2nd Account: Krystalyn/62
Artemis: Level 65 TR/2nd Account: Fayne/62
Zantoth: Level 65 DC/2nd Account: Nemea/62
Kryndar: Level 65 HR/2nd Account: Lilith/62
Goreb: Level 65 GWF/2nd Account: Tysha/62
Bamidor: Level 65 OP/2nd Account: Valindra/62
They;ve updated #17 blog
They nerfed Fleet actions a little, but we now have 960 dil back into STF's not perfect by so so so much better I can now have a life an dplay this game. \0/
#2311#2700#2316#2500
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
now we will all be happy about it because we know it could be a lot worse...
i say keep bitc*ing guys, this is still nowhere near good enough!
The "STF days" on the calendar, has been entirely removed. So there's one avenue of "bonus dilithium" that has been completely cut off.
And reading the updated blog post, shows they are still being rather lackluster in how they reward us for playing their content. So, I suppose returning "some" of the Dilithium to STFs is a step in the right direction. But reducing the amount in Fleet Actions, just puts us back at square one.
The conversion of Omega Marks and Borg Neural Processors to Dilithium, remain PITIFUL. 5 Elite STFs to get 1000 Dilithium??? Whereas in S6, we got 1100 Dilithium PER RUN.
I have no complaints on the issue at this point.
Thanks for entertaining the player comments and choosing to modify the reward structure to suit the new reputation.
It means more than you know...
By acquired differently, you must be speaking about the Zen-to-Dil exchange. I've watched those prices plummet from 300+ in pre-S6 to 100 - 150 near S7 launch.
With this, the conversion rate is going to hover closer to 25. Sorry, but I'm not going to pay for DStahl's new latinum-plated mansion.
F2P is an acronym for Free to Play, not Free to Pay...
If Cryptic is going to use Ferengi buisness ethics, they need to learn how to be better Ferengi. No Ferengi would EVER lie, cheat, and utterly TRIBBLE over their customers in the way that Cryptic is right now. It's a good way to become a dead "entrepreneur".
I'm just waiting for the national news headlines: "Game Programmers slaughtered, 13-year old gunman in custody await psychiatric evaluation."
Even on Tribble, there was some reward; not as big as people would have wanted, but still a reward. When it went live, no reward.
480 > 0.
Edit: Noted, and much more amicable. Not as much as before, but with Omega Mark conversions and rewards from other Fleet Actions to compensate, it's a fair compromise, IMPO.
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
I have a feeling Al' Gekco is getting a telling off...
#2311#2700#2316#2500
they take away many ways to earn dili and that will give the players the ability to earn more dili then before ?
all of these changes are bull****
the only answer is that they want that casual gamers buy more zens to exchange against dili
but its only a thin line when these gamers would say "thats enough" - and when they are gone - they dont come back
btran gone, foundry quickies gone, stfs reduced, horrible costs for exchanging dutys and so on
This would also go a little way to showing you're actually apologetic over this and care an ounce for and respect your players.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Why not give it similar dilithium to STF's and similar cooldown. Dilithium per hour will be the same as your new plan and while players are on cool down they can nip off to get their FM's/RM's etc
"The STO team has consistently ensured that there is enough missions and systems in the game that any player should be able to earn 8000 Dilithium per day if they focus on Dilithium based missions for about 4 hours. By the way, the average level 50 player plays approximately 3.5 hours on a given day."
Now dear STO team, of advanced ppl that actually THINK before copy/pasting a message :P The average level 50 player plays 3.5 hours, thus by grandious thinking you decided to make it 4 hours to get the needed dilithium PER 1 day.... Now would that level 50 player have any omega, romulan, fleet marks? NO. Would that player NEED (or wish) to buy ZEN to purchase more ships, make more characters, get more doffs? NO - because he has NO TIME to actually use them.
Have you considered that for players with 4-5 chars of lvl 50, that means 20 hours a day to just get THE DILITHIUM? Obviously not... now disregarding the slap on the face of ppl that bought ZEN and supported this game, by buying new ships, making new chars to RPG with them as a MMORPG should actually be... you ppl did a great thing, myself, my friends and most of your players will no longer buy any ZEN because it's useless... i wanted to buy myself the new VESTA, but i will not, why buy that ship? to grind SB 24 with it? i can do that in a free lvl 40 ship... why make myself a romulan character? To have no time to play it? No thanks!
Great thinking, ppl don't refine as much dilithium as we want, let's remove it all....
Please feel free to add the "game" and economy statistics in about 2 weeks time... would be nice to see how your profit halven and you player base is 40% smaller.... Great new season!
Oh and....
"To sum it up ? we expect it to take several months of playing the game regularly for several hours per session in order to outfit a captain and crew with the best gear in the game."
In case you didn't know it's a GAME, we play it for fun not as a lifestyle. I guess we can add STO in our long term plans, next year i get married, then have a child, by he/she is 1 year old i will have MACO set, it will be a hell of a party!!!
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
960 Dilithium for an elite
+ 1 neural processor = 100 Dilithium
+ 60 Marks = 550 Dilithium
1710 Dilithium in season 7 compared to 1440 Dilithium in Season 6
so well done cryptic
So, you need to make tier 5 to convert the omega marks to dilith, but can conver BNP's at any level- BUT they both can be converted only by running projects. Whats the cost of these projects ?
Any guess to how much it'll cost to get to T5 rep to convert that OM into dilith? 100k IIRC.
Not such a good deal STILL !
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
960 Dilithium
Approx. 60 Omega Mark per STF (Varies per STF)
Bonus Objective: +25% more Omega Marks
1 Borg Neural Processors"
What was said.
"Elite STF Runs*:
Approx. 60 Omega Mark per STF (Varies per STF)
Bonus Objective: +25% more Omega Marks
1 Borg Neural Processors"
What you actually get. Well done. I have never before said cryptic or PWE lied to us straight to our faces. I have often just sat back and enjoyed the fireworks. But this time... Let's see... supposed to get 960 dil per ESTF. What do I get? Zilch.
Yeah. This time I draw the line. You lied to us. I don't know why, I don't care why. The fact remains that you did it. Well. Bloody. Done.
if you got no salvage drops or whatever you may be right.
i usually got 5000 dilithium in 3-4 STF runs. and sometimes i got 3000 from a single STF
1710 sounds worth playing STFs for.
960 alone? not so much.
Not really- it's still ZILCH for those who won't participate in this new system.
Forced compliance is what this little olive branch IS.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I do really wish that they had also taken the foundry feedback into consideration. Maybe they will once they are sure that their anti-exploit tech works.
Over an hour of playing the Foundry wrapper = 1440 dilithium
An hour of normal stfs = 1920
An hour of elite stfs = 3840
And that's not even counting all the additional goodies like OMs.
Please consider adjusting the wrapper rewards, if the fix prevents exploits. Some of us like stories better than waves of bad guys.