Overpowered Vesta?

starschildren1

Sci: Built as a Suppot Vessel with POWERFUL shtelds.
Engi: Built as a Exploration Vessel with lots of hull\huge Warp Reactor
Tac: Built as a Support Vessel with Firepower

We should all know this because of our wonderfull Star Trek Shows\Movies.

Getting to the point; What makes the Vesta Class a OP ship? Because of its so called god mode? Its a SCI ship! Its meant to have powerfull shields thanks to the great scientists in the ship. Just because its immune to Damage for probably 30 seconds like the Ablative armor doesn't mean its God like.
Most of the people who point the finger at certain ships and cry overpowered are most likely Tac Captains because their damage won't be able to take someone out in the 60 secons they have before they are fired back upon and destroyed. Its agreable that Tacs are meant to pack a punch. But they are not suppoed to take as much damage as they are giving. But alas not every Tac is capable of such a feat. Same goes for some Sci and even some Eng! Every ship\class has their purpose in the Star Trek Universe\ Game. Being a Sci Captain I for one am proud to finally have a ship than will b able to take some damage as well as give it but because of our extremely reduced hull strength I think its bout time Sci has their one hip that can do some Damage! Eni should be next given their massive tanking abilities maby a better turn rate is in order as well.

The Vest class wll be a big upgrade for All Captains!

Like a wise man once said; " Its not how powerfull your ship is, but how you handle your ship!"

xantris

It combines the shields and control powers of a science ship with the mobility and firepower of an escort(cannons +sensor analysis +pets) .

Add in pets (Danube or fighters) and its unique blend of console powers, and you have a extremely high DPS ship that can practically hold a target in place indefinitely while also being as close to impervious to attack. And off the off chance you do break down those shields, it can go invulnerable.

That's not even touching on the cannons that are proposed to potentially bypass weapon power and run off aux.

pottsey5g

The only thing I do not like is it?s a sci ship with more tactic slots and more DPS then an assault cruiser! Why would an assault ship made for combat be weaker than a sci ship for exploration? Then again that could just be the assault cruisers are underpowered.

The aux weapons I like and see little wrong with them.

ortsim

Vesta (science)
3 tac 2 eng 5 science (+15 aux)
AoE Multi-Heal + boost to particle generators

Vesta (tactical)
4 tac 2 eng 4 science (+10 aux +5 wep)
Death Ray (probably significant power, but not a spinal lance)

Vesta (engineering)
3 tac 3 eng 4 shield (+10 aux +5 shield)
Anti-Control + Reflect Kinetic (torps, mines, repulsors, cutting beam probably all included)

Console Set:

-2 consoles: Faster Slip Stream (only useful for travel unless using all 3 consoles)

-3 consoles: Paladin Style Immunity Bubble (immune to damage since Aux will likely be at 125, can't attack except ramming speed, more than likely)

Cons:
-3 console slots taken up by the set (same issue with Oddy)
-mutual cooldowns for all effects (probably 2 or 3 minutes otherwise its kind of moot to use more than one console).

Pros:
-3x DHC that run off Aux power
-the 3 console shield works off of aux power
-Many Boff/Player abilities are maximized by aux power
-Hangar Bay
-Standard Science ship abilities such as sensor scan and system targeting
-Crazy tanking/healing potential, especially where shields are concerned

Face Value Review:

In one word: Potential. This ship has tons of potential to work exceedingly well in many ways, and I could see myself piloting a very tanky science version with nice fire power and crazy shield strength (paratrinic or reman shields, with shield strength consoles, just for the fun of it). On the other hand, the tactical version could be a shiny new Galaxy-X replacement, moreso than the Chimaera. The main downside are the gimicks and just how useful they might be compared to normal consoles, and all the drain to the aux system could be major unless you spec or equip some EPS boosts. There will also be quite a few things to manage at once, with the hangar bay and science ship abilities, as well as the standard skills. In the right hands this will be an insane ship, otherwise with all the things that could weigh it down, most of them you'll face will be fairly challenging to standard, pretty much like a lockbox ship or similar counterpart.

pottsey5g

reyan01 wrote: »

It's not actually a dedicated science ship - they created a new catergory for it. As per the blog:

To me a multi mission ship and one based around being an Explorer is a more generic do a bit at everything not better than a dedicated combat cruiser. Why would it fit heavier weapons and more tactical slots over a dedicated combat ship? Although this is more a moan as how weak dedicated combat cruisers are over how good the Vesta is.

The Vesta has pretty much made combat/Assault cruisers obsolete.

drkfrontiers

starschildren1 wrote: »

Sci: Built as a Suppot Vessel with POWERFUL shtelds.
Engi: Built as a Exploration Vessel with lots of hull\huge Warp Reactor
Tac: Built as a Support Vessel with Firepower

We should all know this because of our wonderfull Star Trek Shows\Movies.

Getting to the point; What makes the Vesta Class a OP ship? Because of its so called god mode? Its a SCI ship! Its meant to have powerfull shields thanks to the great scientists in the ship. Just because its immune to Damage for probably 30 seconds like the Ablative armor doesn't mean its God like.
Most of the people who point the finger at certain ships and cry overpowered are most likely Tac Captains because their damage won't be able to take someone out in the 60 secons they have before they are fired back upon and destroyed. Its agreable that Tacs are meant to pack a punch. But they are not suppoed to take as much damage as they are giving. But alas not every Tac is capable of such a feat. Same goes for some Sci and even some Eng! Every ship\class has their purpose in the Star Trek Universe\ Game. Being a Sci Captain I for one am proud to finally have a ship than will b able to take some damage as well as give it but because of our extremely reduced hull strength I think its bout time Sci has their one hip that can do some Damage! Eni should be next given their massive tanking abilities maby a better turn rate is in order as well.

The Vest class wll be a big upgrade for All Captains!

Like a wise man once said; " Its not how powerfull your ship is, but how you handle your ship!"

I have no problem with the players getting the Vesta. I am very happy they have.

The ONLY problem I have is that the KDF have little or no comparable ship to compete against it with.

Even by itself the ship simply has too much going for it.

Then throw them altogether Vesta (Danubes) + Atrox (Danubes) + Armitage (Danubes) + Fleet MVAM (Multi-vector) + Fleet Defiant (5x Tac) into the mix and things get kinda one sided pretty quickly.

In any match FEDs versatility trumps anything the KDF can do.

rrincy

I do think people are overeacting a bit , sure , with the right boffs equipment and in the hands of a experienced pvp'er this thing has the potential to be an absolute beast
but this also relies heavily on which version of the ship you're facing , same as the odyssey
i do think the turn of 13 is a bit excessive , but any other build other than a cannon one will suffer from dps , like all science ships do ( be running mine with beams , but then , i could care less about dps , thats what escorts are for )

hroothvitnir

The Vesta is not going to replace any cruisers. A decently armored cruiser can take a elite gate crit torpedo or its infamous I hate your hull beam and just heal that damage off afterwords and keep going. A sci vessel will have far more of an issue when hit with 40k hull damage out of nowhere. For pvp swap the words gate with tricobalt and it basically works the same minus the getting caught completely flat footed moments.

glxtrader1

Now we need cross-faction teams PvP

tom61sto

hroothvitnir wrote: »

The Vesta is not going to replace any cruisers. A decently armored cruiser can take a elite gate crit torpedo or its infamous I hate your hull beam and just heal that damage off afterwords and keep going. A sci vessel will have far more of an issue when hit with 40k hull damage out of nowhere. For pvp swap the words gate with tricobalt and it basically works the same minus the getting caught completely flat footed moments.

Indeed. 27.8K hull is not going to be able to take much punishment, even bleed-through and plasm burn are going to be more of an issue than it is on even an escort.

ortsim wrote: »

There will also be quite a few things to manage at once, with the hangar bay and science ship abilities, as well as the standard skills. In the right hands this will be an insane ship, otherwise with all the things that could weigh it down, most of them you'll face will be fairly challenging to standard, pretty much like a lockbox ship or similar counterpart.

Most definitely. Will take many captains some time to be able to pilot these well, definitely not going to be an *I Win* button.

boweninugami

I gotta agree, the Vesta, while strong for a science ship, won't be the 'I win' button many think it to be. Granted I think it coulda done without the hanger bay, that's just overkill in many areas but still. But with it's weak hull it will go down if that person doesn't know what they're doing on if in PVP, the person facing it knows what they're doing.

If anything if many think about it the Atrox is a sci ship, with much stronger hull and almost comparable shields. The Lobi store Recluse is also got Vesta level shields, a better turn rate than the Atrox, and a Commander Universal, so a well made one of either can outclass the Vesta in staying power and ability. The Nebula also has better hull, and the Fleet Nebula's hull is stronger and has a better shield Mod, and can tank with the right boff layout.

And finally, I agree...the KDF needs something comparable to this. And not a ship from the Lockbox or Lobi store, or a Vet reward..something on the C-store that they can all get and enjoy.

trhrangerxml

All this ship needs is a Subspace Snare, then it would be perfect :P

takeshi6

starschildren1 wrote: »

Like a wise man once said; " Its not how powerfull your ship is, but how you handle your ship!"

Or, to paraphrase another wise man; "I'll show you that a difference in Starship Abilities... Doesn't decide a battle!!"

carl103

A LOT is going to come down to the power of it's Tac consle and exactly how those Aux cannons work. If they work entierly off Aux power, and the big beam is decently powerful and also unaffected by Weapons power this is going to be really, really, really, nasty. Sensor Analysis plus 3 cannons is as good as 4 in practise. if your packing mines in the rear and a Kenetic Cutting Beam just for the target subsystems i don't see a major DPS loss from the low rear weapons capability.

Sure you won't have the full tactical options of an escort, but your talking only a small drop off compared to a full escort and frankly a good pet choice will make that and the rear loss up easy. O top of that your stil stacking decent sci abilities and a turn rate good enough to use all you've got. Everything else is pure icing on the cake.

wolfpack12c

Sci ships have been able to pack a punch this whole game. Yeah they got nerfed a little but so what. This is far from the best sci ship. The wells and orb are much better suited then the vesta and all the cons and toys with it just take up space. The wells turn rate owns this the vesta it also has a much better ah mod. Honestly the only thing the vesta has that is even partly good is the hanger everything else is sub par.

rrincy

when you consider that the wells and the orb weaver are lockbox ships , this isnt so bad at all , its a step up from most of the other c-store science ships

jellico1

hroothvitnir wrote: »

The Vesta is not going to replace any cruisers. A decently armored cruiser can take a elite gate crit torpedo or its infamous I hate your hull beam and just heal that damage off afterwords and keep going. A sci vessel will have far more of an issue when hit with 40k hull damage out of nowhere. For pvp swap the words gate with tricobalt and it basically works the same minus the getting caught completely flat footed moments.

---

If the sci skipper is competent he will debuff the gates
Damage so his shields can handle any damage the gate throws
His way , or tactical cube. I tank both right now with
My fleet reccon sci ship.

Plus I do considerable damage as well, much more than
My cruiser does. The vesta will widen this gap even more.
I look foward to the Vesta

radiar3

Can't say it's overpowered untill i tried it, so pls hurry up with it heheee

seerisow

drkfrontiers wrote: »

In any match FEDs versatility trumps anything the KDF can do.

while i completely agree with you hear me out on this.
dont forget that all kdf ships have dual heavy cannon capability, every category of ship has an overall advantage to its federation equivalant cept raptors, and the majority of the consoles are universal on kdf.
now even with the reward packs that make opposing faction consoles available on both sides. im actually pretty happy about the aceton assimilator not being available to fed side. if your lucky enough to find even 2 guys to team up with that have it, thats one major power+crew drain to federation loyalists.now for ship advantages...
B.O.P (battle cloak)
cruisers(higher turn rates)
carriers(higher crew count+better hanger options)
im not doing the mixed category ships.
with that in mind.i say the kdf still has a bit of love going for it on pvp. its just getting enough people to invest in Play/Pay of the klingon faction to make it a damned powerful and consistent opponent to the federation masses.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

natthaan

Turn Rate of an Escort
Size of a Sovg
Firepower of a Sci ship
Hanger bay
CAN USE CANNONS
over all as a Tac im happy to spend 5k c-points on the full pack even if its a "Sic ship"

gradstudent1

drkfrontiers wrote: »

I have no problem with the players getting the Vesta. I am very happy they have.

The ONLY problem I have is that the KDF have little or no comparable ship to compete against it with.

Even by itself the ship simply has too much going for it.

Then throw them altogether Vesta (Danubes) + Atrox (Danubes) + Armitage (Danubes) + Fleet MVAM (Multi-vector) + Fleet Defiant (5x Tac) into the mix and things get kinda one sided pretty quickly.

In any match FEDs versatility trumps anything the KDF can do.

This is precisely right. The issue is not necessarily the Vesta on its own. Like any other ship, it can be overcome with precise timing and coordination. The issue is one of synergy--i.e., what this ship, in conjunction with other ships to maximize dps, healing, and science skills, will do. In short, we cannot evaluate this ship only in terms of its intrinsic abilities but also in terms of its ability to create synergy.

suburbanz71

ortsim wrote: »

Vesta (science)
3 tac 2 eng 5 science (+15 aux)
AoE Multi-Heal + boost to particle generators

Vesta (tactical)
4 tac 2 eng 4 science (+10 aux +5 wep)
Death Ray (probably significant power, but not a spinal lance)

Vesta (engineering)
3 tac 3 eng 4 shield (+10 aux +5 shield)
Anti-Control + Reflect Kinetic (torps, mines, repulsors, cutting beam probably all included)

Console Set:

-2 consoles: Faster Slip Stream (only useful for travel unless using all 3 consoles)

-3 consoles: Paladin Style Immunity Bubble (immune to damage since Aux will likely be at 125, can't attack except ramming speed, more than likely)

Cons:
-3 console slots taken up by the set (same issue with Oddy)
-mutual cooldowns for all effects (probably 2 or 3 minutes otherwise its kind of moot to use more than one console).

Pros:
-3x DHC that run off Aux power
-the 3 console shield works off of aux power
-Many Boff/Player abilities are maximized by aux power
-Hangar Bay
-Standard Science ship abilities such as sensor scan and system targeting
-Crazy tanking/healing potential, especially where shields are concerned

Face Value Review:

In one word: Potential. This ship has tons of potential to work exceedingly well in many ways, and I could see myself piloting a very tanky science version with nice fire power and crazy shield strength (paratrinic or reman shields, with shield strength consoles, just for the fun of it). On the other hand, the tactical version could be a shiny new Galaxy-X replacement, moreso than the Chimaera. The main downside are the gimicks and just how useful they might be compared to normal consoles, and all the drain to the aux system could be major unless you spec or equip some EPS boosts. There will also be quite a few things to manage at once, with the hangar bay and science ship abilities, as well as the standard skills. In the right hands this will be an insane ship, otherwise with all the things that could weigh it down, most of them you'll face will be fairly challenging to standard, pretty much like a lockbox ship or similar counterpart.

This is a great review of the 3 ships, easy to understand and tons of information, well done. Makes me more want to spend the 5k on all 3 at once. The only thing I see and someothers have pointed out in game was the Hull strength. 27,800 base. The Intrepid has 27k base, the Nebula has 31k base, the Vesta is the same size as the Sovy which has 39k base, maybe bump up the Vesta Hull to say 30k, to me that seems fair ?

rrincy

It could do with bumping up a little , maybe 29k or so , have to keep it low since its a science vessel , but at the same time have to counter all the fancy toys it has , it seems the dev team decided best way to do this was to make it weak hulled .
i suppose its also because hull wise the vesta isnt that much longer than the intrepid stem to stern ( if you discount the pylons and nacelles )

http://www.suricatafx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/starfleetships161.png

doomicile

So what does the introduction of the Vesta mean for the Atrox?

The least they could do is give the Atrox an extra Engineering Console slot or something.

rrincy

dont think they'll do anything with it to be honest , unless they add a fleet version

artimus2017

i don't like the 3 fore and 3 aft weapon slots should be 4 and 4.

rrincy

artimus2017 wrote: »

i don't like the 3 fore and 3 aft weapon slots should be 4 and 4.

why , its not a cruiser

artimus2017

supposed to be top tier ship should be powerful.

rrincy

artimus2017 wrote: »

supposed to be top tier ship should be powerful.

top tier ship or not , a science vessel is a science vessel
its not suddenly going to have more weapon slots

4/4 cruisers
4/3 escorts
3/3 science ships

how its always been for federation ships , how it always will be

carl103

how its always been for federation ships , how it always will be

Barriog us getting a new teir anyway.