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Proposal, new ship type: Klingon military scouts. 2nd run.
misterde3
Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
Hello, since the first thread on this matter
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=374791
had to be put down due to the fact it had become slightly smelly this is the 2d pass on this matter.
Proposal Klingon Scout ships
For those of you who might have an objection to this idea, I have tried to anticipate those objections as best I can and included them in my proposal.
"Klingons don't have scientists"
This is wrong.
Since the TOS episode "Day of the Dove" we know Klingon warships carry science officers.
"But Mara was Kang's wife"
True, but "A Klingon's life is his work not his family." -Klag
So it is very unlikely she got that position had she not been suited for it or had there been no need for it on a Klingon Battlecuiser.
There was also a science station on the cruiser "Pagh" in TNG "A Matter of Honor" so it's not out of place on a Klignon warship.
"Klingons are conquerors, not explorers"
While Klingons enjoy conquering quite a lot, they have colonies on various worlds that don't seem to have any indiginous population.
And if a world had one, how did the Klingons find that planet in the first place?
Klingons do go out into space to investigate solar systems.
They do so to see if there are planets that are suitable for colonization or have exploitable resources.
If those worlds are populated they might become subjects of the Klingon Empire when warships arrive to conquer them.
Asteroids can contain valuable materials that can be mined via small mining bases constructed in or near them.
Klingons may investigate nebulae to see if they can be used as power sources etc.
For this they need ships with scientific equipment.
Sure Klingon applications of these scientific systems would be somewhat more "practical" than the way Starfleet would do things but the general functionality would be comparable.
For example Starfleet would survey a mountain to learn something about the age and history of a planet.
Klingons would survey the same mountain to see if it contains valuable minerals.
Starfleet would investigate flaura and fauna to learn something about the way evolution occured on the planet.
Klingons would check for hazards and investigate whether flaura and fauna would make them a good foodsource for a possible colonization.
A Starfleet geologist would analyze the tectonic stability of an area out of interest.
A Klingon geologist would check whether an area is stable enought for a colony, a mine or whether it is suitable for a geothermal powerplant.
Different goals, similar means.
Klingons would probably have ships more suited for long-range scouting missions compared to their battlecruisers.
Relative to their size, these vessels would have greater fuel and material reserves (spare parts) for independent operations.
They would probabaly have more dedicated sensor equipment and far less science labs of any kind than their federation counterparts.
Crew size and armament would be limited due to the need to carry the sensors, supplies etc.
So how do Klingons find new worlds to colonise or conquer?
How do they track enemy fleets?
How do they provide jamming and counter-jamming in battle?
"A sharp blade is useless without a sharp eye"- Koloth in
"Blood Oath"
What's still missing from the KDF roster is a military scout.
"But those are not canon"
Is that so?
The Raptor was actually called "scout ship" in "Sleeping Dogs".
Kruge's Bird of Prey was called that as well.
In the unremastered version of TOS there was also a Klingon scout ship.
There is also soft-canon reference to Klingon scouts which were 1/3rd the size of a contemporary cruiser.
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Klingon_scout_vessel
So it's consistent those are not shuttlecraft but starships in their own right.
By the 24th century it seems the Klingons were still using scouts even though their class remains unknown.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Klingon_scout_ship
Please note that since the crew of DS9 did not just refer to them a "Bird of Prey" it must be a seperate
class while the Bird of Prey was no longer used as a scout.
In the other thread, jnohd asked whether the loadout defines a Klingon ship is a scout and not its class.
I though about that and it seems that is is also not the case.
In the DS9 Episodes "Dramatis Personae" we see a Klingon battlecruiser that was sent on a bio survey mission.
The episode never refers to it as a scout.
"Shut up and use the BoP, it's got universals"
Despite this, the BoP is ill-equipped since it lacks the science consoles to do all these things.
In STO "science" does not exclusively equal "research", it equals space for good sensors, jamming equipment etc.
A ship with proper science capabilities of Klingon design is simply missing.
"So you want a Klingon copy of a Fed science ship"
No, what I propose is something seperate from science ships.
I'd like to propose a ship derived from Raptors.
Less guns, more electronic warfare.
Federation designs are pretty much derived from cruisers.
Thus a Klingon scout design would be smaller than an average Federation science ship but more maneuverable.
Here are example stats:
Tier 5 Military Scout.
Commander Science
Lieutenant Commander Science
Lieutenant Engineering
Lieutenant Tactical
Ensign Tactical
Crew: 150
Turnrate: 15
Hull: 33,000
Shield mod: 1.0
Weapons 3/2
No Subsytem targeting
Sensor Analysis
Can use Cannons
Cloak
Consoles:
Engineering:3
Science:4
Tactical:2
Bonus Power:
+5 Engines
+10 Aux
Aestetically I'd propose a Raptor with visible sensor arrays along its hull.
There is no need for any complex changes to an existing Raptor model so this would be rather simple to implement.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=374791
had to be put down due to the fact it had become slightly smelly this is the 2d pass on this matter.
Proposal Klingon Scout ships
For those of you who might have an objection to this idea, I have tried to anticipate those objections as best I can and included them in my proposal.
"Klingons don't have scientists"
This is wrong.
Since the TOS episode "Day of the Dove" we know Klingon warships carry science officers.
"But Mara was Kang's wife"
True, but "A Klingon's life is his work not his family." -Klag
So it is very unlikely she got that position had she not been suited for it or had there been no need for it on a Klingon Battlecuiser.
There was also a science station on the cruiser "Pagh" in TNG "A Matter of Honor" so it's not out of place on a Klignon warship.
"Klingons are conquerors, not explorers"
While Klingons enjoy conquering quite a lot, they have colonies on various worlds that don't seem to have any indiginous population.
And if a world had one, how did the Klingons find that planet in the first place?
Klingons do go out into space to investigate solar systems.
They do so to see if there are planets that are suitable for colonization or have exploitable resources.
If those worlds are populated they might become subjects of the Klingon Empire when warships arrive to conquer them.
Asteroids can contain valuable materials that can be mined via small mining bases constructed in or near them.
Klingons may investigate nebulae to see if they can be used as power sources etc.
For this they need ships with scientific equipment.
Sure Klingon applications of these scientific systems would be somewhat more "practical" than the way Starfleet would do things but the general functionality would be comparable.
For example Starfleet would survey a mountain to learn something about the age and history of a planet.
Klingons would survey the same mountain to see if it contains valuable minerals.
Starfleet would investigate flaura and fauna to learn something about the way evolution occured on the planet.
Klingons would check for hazards and investigate whether flaura and fauna would make them a good foodsource for a possible colonization.
A Starfleet geologist would analyze the tectonic stability of an area out of interest.
A Klingon geologist would check whether an area is stable enought for a colony, a mine or whether it is suitable for a geothermal powerplant.
Different goals, similar means.
Klingons would probably have ships more suited for long-range scouting missions compared to their battlecruisers.
Relative to their size, these vessels would have greater fuel and material reserves (spare parts) for independent operations.
They would probabaly have more dedicated sensor equipment and far less science labs of any kind than their federation counterparts.
Crew size and armament would be limited due to the need to carry the sensors, supplies etc.
So how do Klingons find new worlds to colonise or conquer?
How do they track enemy fleets?
How do they provide jamming and counter-jamming in battle?
"A sharp blade is useless without a sharp eye"- Koloth in
"Blood Oath"
What's still missing from the KDF roster is a military scout.
"But those are not canon"
Is that so?
The Raptor was actually called "scout ship" in "Sleeping Dogs".
Kruge's Bird of Prey was called that as well.
In the unremastered version of TOS there was also a Klingon scout ship.
There is also soft-canon reference to Klingon scouts which were 1/3rd the size of a contemporary cruiser.
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Klingon_scout_vessel
So it's consistent those are not shuttlecraft but starships in their own right.
By the 24th century it seems the Klingons were still using scouts even though their class remains unknown.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Klingon_scout_ship
Please note that since the crew of DS9 did not just refer to them a "Bird of Prey" it must be a seperate
class while the Bird of Prey was no longer used as a scout.
In the other thread, jnohd asked whether the loadout defines a Klingon ship is a scout and not its class.
I though about that and it seems that is is also not the case.
In the DS9 Episodes "Dramatis Personae" we see a Klingon battlecruiser that was sent on a bio survey mission.
The episode never refers to it as a scout.
"Shut up and use the BoP, it's got universals"
Despite this, the BoP is ill-equipped since it lacks the science consoles to do all these things.
In STO "science" does not exclusively equal "research", it equals space for good sensors, jamming equipment etc.
A ship with proper science capabilities of Klingon design is simply missing.
"So you want a Klingon copy of a Fed science ship"
No, what I propose is something seperate from science ships.
I'd like to propose a ship derived from Raptors.
Less guns, more electronic warfare.
Federation designs are pretty much derived from cruisers.
Thus a Klingon scout design would be smaller than an average Federation science ship but more maneuverable.
Here are example stats:
Tier 5 Military Scout.
Commander Science
Lieutenant Commander Science
Lieutenant Engineering
Lieutenant Tactical
Ensign Tactical
Crew: 150
Turnrate: 15
Hull: 33,000
Shield mod: 1.0
Weapons 3/2
No Subsytem targeting
Sensor Analysis
Can use Cannons
Cloak
Consoles:
Engineering:3
Science:4
Tactical:2
Bonus Power:
+5 Engines
+10 Aux
Aestetically I'd propose a Raptor with visible sensor arrays along its hull.
There is no need for any complex changes to an existing Raptor model so this would be rather simple to implement.
Post edited by misterde3 on
0
Comments
R.I.P
And this sci ship looks good.
Another option would be a BOP mission pod that makes a BOP closer to a science vessel in capability, but a purpose built science ship is a better solution.
I think what the OP is asking for is a science vessel that's more Klingon flavoured, and basing it on an escort would definately make it different then the Fed science ships.
If people dislike having Klingons and Science together in one sentence (I'm not sure why) then we can use the term "electronics warfare" instead.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Merely ask for a BOP that has more science stations and you're set.
In all the trek series the klingon 'scouts' referred not to the ship but the ship's mission. The majority of the times a 'scout' was mentioned it was a bird of prey. It makes sense to have a small, fast, expendable ship that can cloak as a scout of any sort.
I have to ask whether you've read my proposal.
Because I already adressed the question whether the term scout is based on the ship's mission.
And there is no evidence for that considering we've seen a Vor'cha on such a mission and it was not referred to as scout.
And a Bird of Prey was exactly once referred to as a scout, in Star Trek 3.
And that was based fuzzy sensor images that didn't allow for any identification whatsoever.
That it might have served in that role in the 23rd century does not automatically mean it still does in the 25th, especially when you look at its use as a warship in the 24th.
Besides, why would the crew of DS9 sometimes refer to a Klingon ship as a "Klingon scout ship" and not a "Klingon Bird of Prey" if the two were basically the same?
They'd have no way to tell the difference unless the two were distinct types of ship.
This is a clear counterindication that the BoP still serves in that role in the late 2370s.
I bet when the Klingons find something scientifically wondrous, they send a report to high command and a special team comes to investigate.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
To be honest just a few years ago I would have agreed with you.
My guess back then was the Klingons would send regular ships to patrol their borders and when they find something of interest but beyond their capabilities they'd call for a civi ship with proper labs and sensors to check it out.
I also thought they'd handle expansion the same way: send a warship and see what comes up.
But even the I wondered how well suited a ship with mostly tactical sensors would be useful to find worlds that might be of inerest to the civis in the first place.
However there is a novel series about a Klingon battlecruiser called the IKS Gorkon (that is part of STO's background, the Gorkon is mentioned in "The Path to 2409") that depicts how Klingons conduct exploration.
And I can tell you they do more than find a world and order a real science ship to do the actual exploration.
The ships they send out do both, because they can do both.
It annoys the heck out of their tactial officers since they have nothing to do most of the time, but they spend weeks scanning and investigating worlds and stars.
And when they are done investigating they don't call for a real science team to do the actual work.
If they found a world worthy to plant their flag on, either they call for a colonization team or for a fleet to conquer it when there is a population there to exploit.
In case of the titular Gorkon, it's a new design that is based on the Vor'cha even though the schematics in the novel "The Brave and the Bold" show some differences.
*EDIT: Darn, the link doesn't work the way it should, but here's a page that depics the ship the way it looks on the schematics:
http://thedieseljester.tripod.com/glory/id23.html
*
It has a new and powerful sensor array that makes it ideal for such a task.
They explicitly don't send conventional warships on such missions.
Those only stand by for the conquest part.
So the Klingons do this sort of stuff and they don't leave it to the civilians to do it.
They send Defense Force ships on such missions so why should the Defense Force not have ships that are even more suited to such a tasks than a line of cruisers with advanced sensors?
A faster ship with a stealthier profile and really good sensors would be even better for this.
Not to mention better passive sensors would make it even more diffcult to detect on such missions.
And a mobile platform with excellent sensors can keep an eye on borders where people who specialize in stealth may lurk, like the Romulans.
Even though "blue" BO and console slots in STO are called "Science", please don't mistake "Science" for tree-hugging.
It represents powerful sensors, electronics etc.
Think this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-2_spy_plane
and this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EA-6B_Prowler
on a Raptor hull.
The Klingons would be foolish not to have something that can do this.
Both for military expansion and to keep track of what the enemy on the other side of the border does.
And while it might be possible to send a BoP on some of these missions, refitting one would only yield a ship with a very limited operational range, like a Klingon version of the Nova only with even less space for electronics to get the job done.
And of course a very low endurance when caught.
IMHO it makes no sense to send a ship on an exploration or Singal Intelligence mission when:
- it is either too big to remain undetected for long (like a slow, bulky cruiser) something happens in the 3rd Gorkon novel to the I.K.S. Kravokh
- or too squishy to make it back with the actual information (like a BoP)
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
Yeah its def looking like the KDF is being left to rot
Thanks.
And there's a reason I stayed as far away from the term science ship as possible.:)
I dont see science as pure research, especially when you read how very different the disciptions of a Federation and a Klingon science officer are when you create a new character.
Exactly true, and also the reason why it sucks when the Devs write us as acting like the feds in how we do things.
R.I.P
Force multipliers like ELINT (ELectronic INTelligence) units are always somewhat rare.
But it's not their purpose to be the mainstay of a military force.
That doesn't make them any less valuable.
I know there are a few Science Captains out there who probably don't want to give up their beloved carrier, BoP or Varanus.
But I think the fact this thread is currently at over 300 views and the old one at over 780 shows there's some interest in a ship like this.
Klag himself put it this way in "The Brave and the Bold" book2:
"A true warrior goes into battle with the proper weapon."
This was his response to the idea of his operations officer to modify the ship's tractor beam to counter a telepathic attack.
And an Electronics ship is a weapon that slices through jamming and allows allies to strike at the heart of the enemy with unparalleled precision.
And it prevents treachery like the Romulan attempt to smuggle war materiel to the Duras family during the civil war.
I read the words "Featured Episodes" somewhere in those lines.
The Defense Forces definitely would not build science ships, but keep in mind that the KDF is not Starfleet and that the KDF is responsible for the military objectives of the Empire only.
Everything else from Engineering advances to Scientific developments would be handled more on a per House basis given that the Society is a modified feudal system. That is to say that Science ships would be commissioned by Houses or Organizations within the Empire that were pursuing specified goals.
I believe that the only vessels that would be built by the KDF that would be considered to have any 'Science' qualifications would be those for exploring beyond the Empire's borders for the purposes of expanding the Empire.
Support a KDF equivalent to the Vesta Here
A few ideas on this could be throw into engineering where the rotate shield frequency could be used also that applies from torpedoes fired from the b'rel or even some already existing boff skills or doffs that could apply additional shield penetration.
I just think it would be more fun to see more chang bop style setups out there so that if per pvp sake or even npcs that have naturally high damage resistance to plasma that it doesn't limit the KDF so much because its becoming a lot like KDF and Science officers hand in hand where every week we see another nerf to both. Then not seeing any compromises on buffing things that need to be buffed.
Are you sure you're in the right thread?
"At the beginning of the conflict with the Federation the KDF was flush with it's victory against the Gorn and confident in the construction of it's newest generation of ships. They expected glorious battles and even more glorious victories. In the beginning this was the case as their might battlecruisers, powerful raptors, and nimble birds of prey outperformed their Federation opponents and brought victory after victory.
But in their haste to move to battle they had overlooked the possible E-War capabilities of Starfleet's dedicated science ships deeming them to be little more than soft targets, easily destroyed and far too lightly armed to pose a threat to any but the greenest of training cadres. As with most of the KDFs assumptions this proved to be true...at first.
As the war continued and resistance from Starfleet began to stiffen these small, lightly armed ships began to be a powerful nuisance and under the command of shrewd captains were even threats in their own right. More than one Klingon commander found himself unpleasantly surprised when facing a Starfleet ship that had turned its powerful and extensive suite of scientific equipment to the purposes of war.
Still, it was not until fleets of Starfleet battlecruisers and escorts working alongside these re purposed science vessels began to turn the tide of the war against the Klingon Empire that the Klingon High Command realized just how badly they'd underestimated the threat posed by the entirety of Starfleet having dismissed a full third of the fleet as being little more than target practice.
There were several attempts to redress this problem, each meeting with limited success and ultimately being deemed insufficient. The closest to a solution was the Gorn's own small fleet of science and exploration ships which were quite easily adapted to serve the same role as their Federation counterparts, but this solution had two major problems. The first was that the number was small and that attrition would quickly run through the existing hulls. An increase in production would have been an easy solution had it not been for the second problem: the perception of weakness.
The High Command could not abide a solution that was completely reliant upon one of the Empire's subservient races as it exposed and acknowledged a weakness the Empire was unable or unwilling to correct. For this reason it turned to Klingon engineers and shipbuilders and gave them a simple command: "Fix this."
With typical Klingon efficiency they did just that. Instead of creating a new line of ships whole cloth they did as Klingon engineers have done for centuries and made what they had work for them. They evaluated current designs against what they needed. Birds of Prey were a failed solution to the problem, the might carriers of the fleet had the needed equipment but lacked the agility and speed of the Federation science ships making them easy prey to their counterparts even without escorts, and the mighty battlecruisers of the fleet while not as slow and cumbersome as the carriers were still not suitable platforms.
In this way they came to the Raptor and determined it to be the most suitable platform currently extant within the fleet and with typical Klingon efficiency stripped it of armor (Hull HP) and all but the bare minimum tactical systems replacing them in turn with more powerful shield generators and emitters (Shield HP) and the needed science equipment. This equipment was less extensive than that found on STARFLEET ships and lacked much of the versatility, but was every bit as effective on the battlefield as that carried by the ships this new breed of Raptor was meant to counter."
Just my own long winded explanation for how such a ship could come to be along with an idea for how the Devs could get it in the game as an F2P ship - namely by reusing the existing Raptor skins and attaching a new set of BOFF stations to them. What does anybody who read that whole thing think?
I like it.:)
I'd like to add that there would have probably been an after-action anlysis of the conflict with the Gorn.
And I assume some Klingons would have probably realized there and then that they would have fared better with their own EW-ships against the Gorn Fleet Support ships.
While I think it's likely that the counterargument "they won nontheless" would have been seen valid by some, my guess is work on an EW-heavy ship would have been started before conflict with the Federation, at least unoficially.
Those who saw the conflict with the Gorn as a foreshadowing of things to come would probaly have wanted something in their back-pocket when the time came.
Of course a fleet-wide deployment would still take time.
After reading through the Haynes Owners' Workshop Manual on the Bird of Prey, I'd like to add a few bits and pieces about that ship and why I think it wouldn't make too much sense to use a BoP.
There is a chapter on a BoP's sensors and it appears that the BoP's long-range sensors are basically:
Identify a ship and indicate where it's heading.
Anything beyond that is handled by shortrange sensors.
There is appearently a way to convert the BoP into a scout vessel, however it means ripping out the torpedo launcher and putting long-range sensors in its place.
However that does not affect any other of the ship's systems, for example the BoP is never used for missions that last longer than about a month.
Even though the ship itself is capable of them, the supplies of fresh food aboard don't last beyond that.
And appearently the KDF has never felt the need to test whether the reclamation system that could be used to supply the crew with non-fresh food is up to the job...or whether the crew would go nuts from eating reclamated food.;)
There is also an intersting bit on the role of a science in the Klingon fleet, that would apply to STO just as much:
Science Station:
"The science station provides a constant stream of information from the ship's sensors, with a particular emphasis on the condition of any nearby vessels which Klingons always consider to pose a threat.
During battle, the science officer has the primary responsibility for monitoring the condition of enemy vessels, including the nature on an enemy's weapons and the condition of their engines.
The science officer provides recommendations to the captain and tactical officer. this data is automatically shared with the tactical station, but is accessed at a lower menu level. [whatever that means] The dedicated computers also provide analysis of stellar phenomena that may pose a threat to the ship, for the long- and short-range probes and the ship's transporter systems."
Science Officer:
"It is a misconception that Klingons have no interest in science; it's simply that they are most interested in the kind of science that can be used on combat.
The sciecen officer is a vital member of the command crew and is responsible for interpreting all the sensor data that the ship collects.
This is vital when dealing with unfamiliar stellar phenomena that could pose a threat to the ship or render the cloaking device ineffective.
Before teleporting [I have no idea why they use that term here] to a planet of landing on the surface, the science officer will assess the safety of the atmosphere and make recommendations about the best possible landing site.
In combat, he or she will advise on the condition of enemy vessels and collects as much data as possible on their performance, which is then shared with the weapons and engineering officers in order to devise effective tactics"
I also agree that any such ship dedicated to exploration and procurement would be properly fitted for a combat role, though as a (slightly) more secondary role.
I could see this ship as actually being an interesting excuse for a Klingon side version of the new vesper. Though I would be disappointed if they just cloned the consoles and abilities over rather than finding a more Klingon flavored counterpart. For example making it a second ship with the enhanced cloak, ECM package, and enhanced targeting sensors.
Or perhaps a battle cloak that still retains some of the protective quality of ship shields- running at half energy level and with 50% standard bleedthrough while active instead of the normal 10%. Enough to absorb some punch, enhancing survival chances while revealed while still leaving the ship somewhat vulnerable during those critical times of cloak and decloak or when revealed. ... And of course returning to the 10% bleedthrough while out of cloak.
We are many. We are legion. We are the proud, the bad, the infinitely expendable.
We! Are RED SHIRTS!
...Tremble in thy footwear.
in the other thread bluegeek proposed a change to the configuration:
by giving it a 3rd tactical instead of a 3rd engineering console the ship would be more of a "fight and run ship" than "a stand and fight ship".
Back then my response was that I thought the ship's purpose was to return home with its information and that the engineering console would also represent the changes to the ship that led to its use as a long-range ship.
What do you folks think/feel about this?
Which persepctive makes more sense for a Klingon ship?
After all it is a scout's job to not only find the information, but also to escape or otherwise find a way to report what has been discovered. Combat would be considered through a 'target of opportunity' basis, or as a function of support.
We are many. We are legion. We are the proud, the bad, the infinitely expendable.
We! Are RED SHIRTS!
...Tremble in thy footwear.
I believe the person below is correct. A scouts job is information first, fight second.
R.I.P
Does anyone have any idea for a special function assuming a ship like this became available at Lt.G and not B.G.?
Klingons are not so one dimesional, yes warrior culture is glorified by Klingon Empire, but not all Klingons are members of the warrior class, many are simple farmers, or miners, and other occupations. The Klingon Empire was even briefly a democracy for a time.
As Jadzia Dax points out Klingons can be as varied as any other race, and that includes curiosity. Especially if they work for II (Imperial Intelligence). That's like the Klingon Obsiden Order.
Interestingly Imperial Intelligence Officers can't be challenged like regular KDF officers, so if an II officer does something to insult your honor one can't demand a fight, you just have to take it.
I can see II officers having scout ships or regular science ships, because like any other intelligence gathering group, they want to know everything
Thanks, I know that.
All of it.
I've read "The Art of the Impossible", "Diplomatic Implausibility", "Tales of the Dominion War", "The Left Hand of Destiny" pt. 1 & 2, "Diplomatic Implausibility", "The Brave and the Bold" pt. 1 & 2, the IKS Gorkon Novel Series, most of the "Vanguard" novels, etc.
I've also always said the Klingons are not a "Boom-Boom-Faction".
And if you only construct you fictional species from cliches, you don't get a culture, you get a farce without any depth.
However the thing you might want to keep in mind is that we play as part of the Klingon military, the KDF.
Which is dominated by warriors, who will of course think like warriors.
We don't play II, not to mention how much the KDF despises II.
Have a look at RL militaries and see how few really purely civilian "vehicles" (as a general term) they have and operate in the field.
The KDF has a whole lot more in common with current RL militaries than the fairy tale Starfleet and the military uses units with military applications.
In addition I'd like to ask you to have a look at the recent "Haynes Owner's Workshop Manual" for the Klingon Bird of Prey, which clearly explains how a starship is ordered and designed.
Great houses place an order to a renwl' (architect) that is assigned to them.
The houses have specific expectations what their ships are supposed to be capable of and the renwl' has to somehow design as ship that actually works from their input.
This can sometimes lead to a duel since the house representatiives tend to have somewhat unrealistic expectations and demand overgunned ships without any balance etc.
To quote from the book:
"It is a position of great honor since it is one of the rare roles that allows a common civilian to tell a noble warrior that he is wrong."
In other terms: the warriors (at least to some degree) even call the shots when it comes to ship design.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
So you pay a bunch of cash for weaker shields and a bonus console you may or may not use, because there aren't any other similar ships kdf-side.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I'm still surprised that Cryptic has not came up with more original designs for KDF vessels.
I'd love to see the KDF equivalent to the Akira class or perhaps a Battle Cruiser that can detatch its foward section from the rest of its hull similar to Star Fleets Saucer Separation.
My favorite vessel of all in-game vessels is the Vo'Quv and it was an original design.
The KDF came up with the Bird of Prey after seeing how effective the design was for the Romulans.
We need a KDF version of a Scimitar complete with Battle Cloak :eek: