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How to avoid bitterness and disappointment about PvP in STO
sophlogimo
Member Posts: 6,507 Arc User
I see many posters here stating that they are not enjoying their game time with PvP in STO any more. I can see why, but I think that these negative emotions are something that can be avoided in favor of having fun with the game again. Here is my advice on how to achieve that for you, without any dev typing a single line of code:
1. Don't take it too seriously. This is a game for entertainment. We do this because we want to have a fun time. It is not a secondary job, not a serious matter, and battles are just pixels on screens and bits in computers. Have fun with it, and laugh about goofy stuff that may happen. It is a game!
2. Enjoy what you have, don't think about what could be.
Sure, one can imagine lots of new stuff we'd want be able to play on. But what we already have is fun in itself, with maps that are useable, a queue system that can give you exciting game experiences sometimes, and the option to do private matches as well, even an open PvP zone! Enjoy that! It is fun, more Trek fun than any of us had four years ago.
3. There is always balance. And never.
In any game, you will see things that are "exploitable" or might lead to this or that option not being what you would want it to be. Sure, mechanics, rules and new gear might make certain ship types obsolete (at least for a while), or put certain captain types at a severe disadvantage. But from all the new or changed options, there will always emerge a new balance, a new way stuff can be done in the game. Finding that new balance can be fun!
Likewise, no two game mechanics can, by nature of the game being a dynamic system, ever be perfectly equal, or even be close to that. There is no balance other than the one we find while playing!
If you truly grasp what these three points mean, you will find a lot of fun in this awesome game.
Enjoy!
1. Don't take it too seriously. This is a game for entertainment. We do this because we want to have a fun time. It is not a secondary job, not a serious matter, and battles are just pixels on screens and bits in computers. Have fun with it, and laugh about goofy stuff that may happen. It is a game!
2. Enjoy what you have, don't think about what could be.
Sure, one can imagine lots of new stuff we'd want be able to play on. But what we already have is fun in itself, with maps that are useable, a queue system that can give you exciting game experiences sometimes, and the option to do private matches as well, even an open PvP zone! Enjoy that! It is fun, more Trek fun than any of us had four years ago.
3. There is always balance. And never.
In any game, you will see things that are "exploitable" or might lead to this or that option not being what you would want it to be. Sure, mechanics, rules and new gear might make certain ship types obsolete (at least for a while), or put certain captain types at a severe disadvantage. But from all the new or changed options, there will always emerge a new balance, a new way stuff can be done in the game. Finding that new balance can be fun!
Likewise, no two game mechanics can, by nature of the game being a dynamic system, ever be perfectly equal, or even be close to that. There is no balance other than the one we find while playing!
If you truly grasp what these three points mean, you will find a lot of fun in this awesome game.
Enjoy!
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I've given up getting worried about the game for the same reasons. I still get annoyed occasionally but it's not earth shattering to me like it used to be. I just play other games if I get too annoyed with the game. :P
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
we cant do anything but protest at this point, hoping something good will happen eventually, and trying to prevent some of the more overpowered things from ever going live.
but then theres the vesta. here is what we know, before seeing a single official stat.
its been said repeatedly that its a sci ship, meaning 6 weapons, com sci station, more maneuverable then a cruiser, innate subsystem targeting, and sensor analysis.
we also know thanks to tribble tool tips for 45 degree arc cannons and carrier pets that a multipurpose sci ship can use them. this is referring to the vesta.
that means a sci ship that has good maneuverability will have at least 1 hanger and be able to use DHCs. it can do everything, it wasn't even this much of a mary sue in it's books. unless it has stats like a bop, and it wont, think recon sci stats, its going to be the most overpowered thing ever introduced.
and pvp does another lap around the toilet bowl.
...when you consider there will likely be a Fleet Vesta down the road.
Besides - what about the Andorian battlecruiser later this year?
Then allow me to enlighten you, young one. PvP thrives on tactical and strategic choices, using ability choice, gear choice, Captain choice, ship choice, and the almighty teamwork combination of those choices to force situational imbalances in your ("your" and "you" are used in the context of a team of players) favor while attempting to turn over situations where you would be at a disadvantage. This all occurs in a mostly blind situation where you can't see with certainty anything other than your opponent's Captain and Ship types until after the initiate.
When you add ships like the Vesta (looks, at the moment) that are well rounded without clear significant weaknesses, you get a tool that is extremely powerful and one that mostly obosoletes other tools given that it has fewer weaknesses relative to its strengths, which directly translates to having the upper hand in more situations, and being wrong footed in fewer, before combat ever takes place.
Alright, but seriously a hangar bay on the Vesta? Ew.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
For well over a year there's been talk of the Vesta being a shuttlecarrier - before the Atrox - before the Armitage... there was the Vesta. A Sci Tactical Fed Carrier... it's been in the works for how long now?
Why are people acting like this was the first mention of it? It's been the discussion for as long as I can remember... January was the 3rd anniversary for the ship.
I admit it - I lol'd at this.
hrm, well, the poster above me lol'd at this....i hope it was just that line....
because it is very clear to me that corsair has a great understanding of team dynamics, and the need for more class based ships vs the "one ship to rule them all" mindset.
very well stated corsair.
have fun kill bad guys
That's why I only quoted the one line.
As for the rest, yes - it comes down to a team's synergy in exploiting the potential weakness of the opposing team to achieve victory.
There's nothing stopping Team A from also flying a Vesta or two just because Team B is flying one or more though - unless that team's KDF, of course. But that basically goes for all of the ships - you can't fly Fed ships if you're KDF and you can't fly KDF ships if you're Fed.
People are making the Vesta out to be a ROFLstomper - that it will singlehandedly beat any other ship - while the person plays with their toes and reads a book or watches TV.
Rather than consider the potential weaknesses the ship will have - looking at what combinations could be used to destroy it... they'd rather just cry about it? I mean, c'mon... how have they lasted any time at all with the way STO's PvP has been since the start?
Speculation has been all over the place in regard to how the ship will launch - some of the additive speculation has been kind of amusing. Some of them are just a weaker version of the Armitage - less hull, worse turn, DC (not DHC), Sci heavy BOFF layout, and innate Sci ship abilities.
If Sci ships were such awesome sauce... then folks would be flying RSVs instead of Escorts...
...so maybe folks should spend less time crying about it and thinking more about how to kill them - making the person that thought they were going to be uber - be the one crying, eh?
edit: And like Soph said, it's casual PvP at the end of the day. There's not even a shiny sticker for it... play it if it's fun, don't play it if it's not fun. Yes, investments of time and money can be a royal PITA when things change - welcome to MMOs - they've been doing that for the 15 years I've been playing them.
Al already said that if they let her slot Dual cannons then there is no way the system can be modified so it can't slot dual heavies.
And from what We have already been told she can slot cannons - so it's pretty much a lock that it will slot DHC
The biggest question will be her turn rate - as to how effective the cannons are.
maybe this is a troll thread?
Probably looking at 8-9...
this vesta is going to have VASTLY enhanced movement control for absolutely free thanks to runabouts, on top of every other sci/sci trick. and then it will beat on you with its 3 DHCs, dealing near escort damage, when you are at your most vulnerable. it can do this all by itself.
i really shouldn't have to explained why this all in 1 with 0 downsides is a VERY BAD thing. and no, it will have no actual downsides, you can count on it.
The ADR - well, they're dead by the same AOE that's being carried to deal with all the fighter/drone spam from current carriers. If anything, having a single hangar - there's going to be less spam than there would be from dual hangar carriers.
As for the DHCs - you're looking at a Sci BOFF layout - not a Tac. It's being flown by a Sci - not a Tac. It's got a bonus to Aux - not Weapons. It's not going to have near the maneuverability of an Escort.
Single hangar - pet fodder - less maneuverable - lower hull - Sci heavy BOFF layout while Sci abilities are still borked - and the list goes on and on... so where are there zero downsides?
With everything you've posted in various ship build threads - I'd expect you to have pointed out how fail the Vesta is... not that it is the one ship to rule them all.
Honestly, I'm more worried about what the Andorian battlecruiser is going to be like than the Vesta. I'm picturing the evil offspring of a Fleet Negh and Fleet Vor...and then the likelihood of there being a Fleet version on top of that.
Course, then there's the Ambassador next year. I still say the Ambassador should come with an innate ability where it randomly summons in three Rom dreads to destroy it. The pro-Ambassador folks hate when I suggest that - but c'mon, that would be funny as Hell...
Move on to something better.
The grass really is greener in this case
if it has just a LT tac, it will have all it needs to deal significant damage with DHCs. especially if your scanned and been subnuked. having high weapons energy is easy, bonuses are usually between 5 and 15 to any one thing, a drop in the bucket.
the armatige makes a plenty large mess with 1 hanger. only 1 can tractor you at a time anyway, 1 hanger can chain tractor you as well as 2. runabouts have 20k hull and shields, they shrug off AOE, you cant kill them faster then they spawn even if you focus only on them. if you have spent any time trying to kill a sci/armatige 1v1, you would be plenty scared of the vesta's potential.
the nebula has a 9 turn rate, do you think the vesta will have less? 2 turn consoles and i can get a ship with 9 turn, the negvar, to use DHCs easily. especially with 2 or 3 different ways for me to control movement. and i can do stupid damage with just CRF1 on the big fat thing. fully tac buffed with DEM3, controlled movement, and all AP weapons i can take ships out in 1 pass, its hilarious being able to do that in the kdf's worst cruiser.
a vesta with CRF1, sensor scan, and subnuking your resistance away will be able to do the same. and you will be SS'ed and VM'ed at the same time most likly.
there are 2 potential station setups it can have in my opinion, what the karfi has, which is VERY tac heavy, and what the vet/ody has, the universal LTC and ENS. only on this ship it will have a COM sci were the oddy ahs a COM eng and vet ships have a COM tac.
if it has the karfi setup, and it turns better then the karfi's 8, the DHCs are a HUGE threat. if it has the vet/ody setup, it can have 2 AtB, GG basically.
I can't really understand where you're coming from to be honest. There's nothing preventing a Tac from flying the Vesta (although frankly I think I'd fear a Sci/Sci more), and "Sci abilities are still borked" is a massive oversimplification that gets bandied around a lot, mostly by armchair generals (have someone who knows what they're doing hit you with aux-buffed grav pulse, DOff-boosted VM/Tyken's and then tell me that Sci is weak). Weapons power is not typically a big deal if you have a good toon spec.
What dontdrunkimshoot is saying is that a proper Sci can typically cripple a player, but they aren't intended to deal the killing blow. A Vesta that can deal serious burst while your engines are perma-down is the knife in the side while you're uncloaked by CC. And again, we're not looking at Joe Schmoe's Vesta here, we're considering the people who we know are more than capable enough of bleeding the last ounce of performance out of her and pushing the mechanics to their limit.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
All these comments sound like KDF players complaining that their ships won't be king of PvP anymore. Are you upset that the Feds might have a equal or better ship for the first time - come on let's get to the truth.
Lol I was actually pumped for the Vesta and I barely log onto my KDF, I just want to fly one with a clean conscience
BTW if you think Klink ships are kings of PvP it shows how much you play.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
were are these superior kdf ships? is it the raptor? the worst escort? is it the bop, an escort with less durability and less firepower? there is a full fledged fed escort running around with all the bops best possible station setups already, and they are MUCH more durable as well. cruisers? well kdf cruisers are better at dealing damage, but when they are doing that well they arent supporting worth a damn so the kdf team never has much for team healing. sci ships? well a bop can sci, but sci in a way that more easily sets up its own ambush, it cant hang around and sci debuff for the duration.
fed escorts are better at doing an escort's job, fed cruisers are better at doing a cruisers job, and they have sci ships, as apposed to not having sci ships. getting out played by kdf players has nothing to do with the respective ships
In virtually every really, truly good PvP game each character has a clear weakness, and those that don't have a specific weakness, are never as good as a specialized character/unit at its niche. When you have a character that does everything and well, they almost always have some tangible weakness: low damage output, fragility, short ranged, or high-risk/moderate rewards. Any lack of durability the Vesta might have will almost certainly be more than made up for by its ability to CC* its opponent, proactively mitigating damage. The ability to slot movement-impairing CC in hangars removes the need to use you BOFF stations for movement control powers, opening up space for more healing or more devastating lockdown-type crowd control (VM, Energy Siphons, and Shockwaves come to mind).
*Crowd Control: This refers, most specifically, to those abilities that inhibit and impair an opponent's ability to operate effectively, and not specifically its ability to deal damage in a large area.
it will go good with my timeship.
the biggest mistake you guys are making here is thinking cryptic has any intention of making this a team based game.
its not.
they only care about the kirk.
I can't really see it lacking durability, the shield mod'll go no lower than ~1.3.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Eh, I more or less agree. My point was more that, in a sustained engagement, any possible weakness in endurance will be made up more than adequately the additional space made available by making Tractor Beam powers redundant. It also would allow the Vesta to be a stronger healer than it already will be.
Has anyone leaked any concrete stats on the ship? The only thing I've seen around for it is that it'll definitely carry DHC's and at least 1 hangar. Sensor Analysis and Subsystem Targeting can be surmised from it being a Science Ship, but I don't think I've seen any iron-clad info on it.
To sum it up, when all questions are are answered with a single answer, all other answers, ones that only answer a single question, become the wrong answer.
Agreed, agreed, agreed. The big question, as noted above by somebody else, is a turnrate. DHC on a ship with 9-10 turnrate is only minimally impressive and won't do much against faster moving escorts and even the new timeships. Cruisers are of course a diff. story.
When KDF is superior in a PvP match (and its superiority is in no way a given [many anecdotes available]) it is because of superior communication and coordination, not because of superior ships. That said, a Fed team with even moderate communication and coordination, a number of science-flying Vestas (according to the hypothetical abilities it seems to have), with captains that know how to use science skills, is problematic at best.
these are 2 popular items in our household.
i still say this is a troll thread.