Bridge commander wasawesome.
Star Trek generations while having game design problems was a decent enough foray into exploring the "exploring" part of the IP.
Running around old ruins, solving puzzles, that is still engaging today.
A final unity. Anniversary.
Elite force was a nice foray into fps.
No, STO is entirely CBS's FAULT!
WHY? Because they did not want to make the required investment of time and money to create a GOOD Star Trek MMO.
They left the project unobserved in perpetuals incapable hands for years without any sort of "GET SOMETHING DONE YOU FREAKS!" rolling down the corporate line, and then when they noticed they immediately swung to the worst solution by taking cryptic up on its offer to adapt a mmo engine made for CLASSIC MMO gameplay (ie not made for even vaguely simulating you commanding a ship, like, err bridge commander did, a game which by that time was almost 10 years old and to this day has better space gameplay than STO can ever achieve with its engine) into a Star Trek game.
Do i blame cryptic? Perhaps but only partly because the real blame is with CBS, with Atari, with incompetent exec people that pulled the rug from under cryptic, disablign them from at least trying to evovle the game.
Did cryptic do a hackjob? yes. Could they have done better? No. With what? The time they didn't get, the budget they didn't have?
Nintendo made a succesfull game franchise out of a fat plumber. Do not blame the ip. This one is on its producers.
Here we have a simple super-hero game from a company that makes simple super-hero games with their super-hero game engine and folks want the company to do something else other than make the only thing they know how to make - simple super-hero games?
To expect a simple super-hero game making company to make something other than simple super-hero games is not logical.
Here we have a simple super-hero game from a company that makes simple super-hero games with their super-hero game engine and folks want the company to do something else other than make the only thing they know how to make - simple super-hero games?
To expect a simple super-hero game making company to make something other than simple super-hero games is not logical.
I see that said but this is exactly how fantasy games operate too and people focus in on the super-hero aspect because that's what Cryptic did before.
Cryptic's prior super-hero titles are more managed like fantasy games in an urban setting than super-hero titles.
A true super-hero title would probably have more mind bending morality plays, secret identities, themed gadgets, etc.
In a sense, Cryptic has never specialized in super-hero games either and has done fantasy games reskinned and re-configured as super-heroes and science fiction.
The way powers are setup here, in Champs, and City of Heroes has more in common with the fantasy genre than the super-hero genre.
Even SOE's DCU Online is structured more like a fantasy game but their big shift is that they made travel more interactive with the environment in a way that's super-hero-y and they used actual super-hero characters.
A lot of the big functions of super-heroes are missing from all the super-hero MMOs and the mechanics tend to skew a lot more towards fantasy than super-heroes, with a few key innovations in each title that make it seem less like a high fantasy MMO.
Heck, true super-hero genre would be lighter on questgivers for one thing as super-heroes tend to supply their own quests or would actually make the villains the primary questgivers, along with some that would come from proprietary "supporting characters" to each hero rather than public figures, as a rule.
It might have been interesting to see an (admittedly niche) take on a true Trek Fantasy MMO by setting it back in the days of the Fek'Ihiri and the Stone of Gol or by setting it in the Eugenics Wars.
I think the smart approach to a true super-hero themed MMO would probably give each hero a full city as a form of active player housing, a rogues gallery (not just one arch enemy), and supporting characters, with city construction as a prominent feature since real super-heroes tend to inhabit cities which reflect their personality.
You'd visit other heroes' cities or team up in social international and intergalactic locales.
The biggest problem with this game is not that it's Star Trek, it's that Cryptic (under Atari or PW) has never "gotten it". Star Trek has always been a series of morality plays where ethics and morals are at the fore of the entire IP. In order to make a good morality play, it takes a basic understanding of morals and ethics which seem to be the companies' Kryptonite. You can't write about ethics if you show you don't have any so they make due with combat and bleeding the customer base dry.
I believe it was Heinlein that wrote "All the traffic will bear, but don't make the mark anemic" which is also something Cryptic/PWE/Atari just can't seem to grasp. For every step this game has made forward since switching to F2P (and there have been quite a few) they have taken two steps back in their treatment of us, the customers. Being convinced that you can get blood from a rock doesn't make it possible but they seem to be more than willing to try.
The other games mentioned have added greatly to the Star Trek mythos while some others have detracted from it but I can't think of anything that has done more outright damage to the IP and Roddenberry's vision of Star Trek than STO. Using the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition is not an acceptable alternative to business ethics, the Blessed Exchequer is not going to be there to accept your bribe Cryptic.
STO started out as promising, nothing more and has had some wild fluctuations in its marketing systems. I have an irrational fear of anything that looks like the thin end of a wedge and that's what the C-Store was. There were people that called me paranoid when it came out and I came out against it, most of whom have probably quit by now, but that is exactly what it has proven to be. When F2P came out, I had a healthy and active fleet, shortly after it came out it went from almost 200 very active members to less than a half a dozen.
It isn't that the IP doesn't lend itself to games or to any particular game style it's that the companies involved seem to have no sense of business ethics or how to treat their customers to survive, they just market the TRIBBLE out of the game/items and hope they make money before it all crashes and they can sell it off to the next sucker or shut it down before they go bankrupt (PWE is already morally bankrupt so that isn't an issue at all).
I think it's a twofold problem with MMOs in that regard.
If it's single player, you can focus on many ships or just a few depending on the genre of the game. (For example, Armada supports Armadas.) In fact, most prior Trek games were THE Trek game for a certain genre, whether interactive movies, FPS, RTS, etc.
Multiplayer, it could be interesting to have an MMO about a single crew or starbase and would certainly be deeper. But the problem there is that an MMO is too big for that and it can inhibit travel unless shuttles play a big role.
I would kinda like a game where you progress through ship assignments as a junior officer like cities in WoW or GW and the space combat is instead focused on you and your shuttle, which you take on assignments.
So instead of going back to ESD, you go back to the Enterprise (or the Farragut or your ship of choice; endgame could have options between big IP ship assignments) where you are a Lt. with a tricked out shuttle.
Almost like Elite Forces' Hazard Team but for every ship and with each Lt. being issued a shuttle and permission to come and go.
I think it would make the world feel both bigger and more authentic and would make even a Romulan BoP seem pretty imposing, much less a cube.
That wouldn't work. That would only make the players smaller, rather than making the world bigger and wouldn't solve anything.
Another reason STO doesn't feel very Trek, is everything is comically out of scale. The Defiant is two times bigger than it should be, the Bug and BoP should should be smaller than the Defiant, DS9 is too big, Spacedock is too small, poor K-7 is almost 50 times bigger than it should be, the list goes on..
It certainly wouldn't fix it, but if everything was it's correct size (Or close enough), then that would do wonders for the Trekiness of this game.
For problem solving, exploring, non-combat oriented, and storytelling Myst from 90s is an example of a game that does both.
For a variety of "non-combat winning" methods, strategy, sci-fi, and story telling the turn based 90's Alpha Centauri is a good example.
For Open Sector Space PvP environment on large MMO scale w/backstory (not much in progression b/c meant to be player sandbox driven) the current MMO EvE online.
For exploring systems @ MMO scale, W-Space EvE Online.
Pre F2P this game had the potential to meld Seasonal T.V. show storytelling w/gameplay via Featured Episodes. It would have meant good writing, good voice acting, good sound/music, branching options w/means of tracking events from 1 episode to the next based on how a player played the previous episode(s). Unfortunately, that's gone.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
One of my favorites is Prime Directive available in both plain and GURPS, that handles the neat aliens from the Animated Series as well.
There is also an older more complex multi-book Star Trek RPG by Last Unicorn games that covers all the series.
This is the only Star Trek MMO as I know being Admin on the Oldest fansite on the net.It take about a week to get to Vice Admiral make it a few years.they could of made more landing party missions for your char. untill you obtain command of your own ship.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
This is the only Star Trek MMO as I know being Admin on the Oldest fansite on the net.It take about a week to get to Vice Admiral make it a few years.they could of made more landing party missions for your char. untill you obtain command of your own ship.
Oh I see the miscommunication:
When you said RPG I believed you to be referring to the more cerebral pen and paper Games instead of just online stuff.
One of my favorites is Prime Directive available in both plain and GURPS, that handles the neat aliens from the Animated Series as well.
There is also an older more complex multi-book Star Trek RPG by Last Unicorn games that covers all the series.
I was talking about Computer Games, not pen&paper rulebooks (where you need AGAIN other people to play it).
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
That wouldn't work. That would only make the players smaller, rather than making the world bigger and wouldn't solve anything.
Another reason STO doesn't feel very Trek, is everything is comically out of scale. The Defiant is two times bigger than it should be, the Bug and BoP should should be smaller than the Defiant, DS9 is too big, Spacedock is too small, poor K-7 is almost 50 times bigger than it should be, the list goes on..
It certainly wouldn't fix it, but if everything was it's correct size (Or close enough), then that would do wonders for the Trekiness of this game.
The Defiant should be around 170 meters. How far off would YOU say it is from that?
On one hand a Star Trek game is much harder to make, because there is no clearly defined theme or conflict. Just look at the various defintions fans have what Star Trek is about... But these are mostly minor issues.
Most agree that StarTrek is about peacefully exploration/keeping peace, but not to kill everything on sight!
On the other hand, i think cryptic did a horrible job in picturing a believable Star Trek universe. I don't want to rant AGAIN about cryptic, i just want to say that their interpretation is way off the mark. It's almost a mirror universe Game than a prime universe StarTrek game IMHO.
In my opinion, they did almost everything wrong. If it's the visuals and their designs, most game mechanics, even the general story. Personally i think Cryptics devs aren't really qualified to make a Star Trek game, their agenda about Star trek contradicts almost everything Star Trek is about IMHO.
They better had created their own Sci fi universe, i think this game would have been much better.
I think StarTrek is most unsuitable for a MMO. Star Trek always was about one ship (station), one crew. To equalize everything and to make it something like a money generating/hunting game is not really what i think a Star Trek game should be about.
I hope my english is understandable, since most of the time i find it difficult to find the right words in my native language.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
There is one feature that I would love to see in any MMO. It is very expensive, but if they utilize talented actors that are NOT necessarily well known high paying actors, they can actually produce an ever evolving MMO experience.
One game that comes to mind that did it to liimited extent was the Matrix online. Devs assumed the role of a Main character, giving players a good experience.
Concept:
Hire talented actors with typing experience / produce voice overs for key points in a plot (These can be pre-recorded)
Hire Writers that are very familiar with the iP in question: Whether it be STO, The lore of Elder Scroll Online etc...
These writers will write an indepth plotline that the actor can roleplay their role as either antangonists or protaganist. Giving the actor leeway within the confines of the story arc.
Its a bit daunting, and what I am merely suggesting is a rough concept. However; it could be the next level of an MMO experience.
This concept may be far fetch for smaller companies, but it can be done. It is a unique concept - so one if those Kickstarter MMO's try to incorporate it, along with what I previously mentioned as to what I regard as Great MMO ideas, I think it can change the MMO experience in its entirety.
There just needs to be the right dollar amount in place, A risk taker company that is willing to invest etc... it could change the entire MMO market, at least thats my own opinon.
Is it really Cryptic or does Star Trek just not translate well to video games?
Outside of STO, the only Star Trek games I've found that were remotely enjoyable were Klingon Academy and Judgement Rites. Especially Judgement Rites. So far, all other Star Trek games can bite me.
Outside of STO, the only Star Trek games I've found that were remotely enjoyable were Klingon Academy and Judgement Rites. Especially Judgement Rites. So far, all other Star Trek games can bite me.
There is one feature that I would love to see in any MMO. It is very expensive, but if they utilize talented actors that are NOT necessarily well known high paying actors, they can actually produce an ever evolving MMO experience.
One game that comes to mind that did it to liimited extent was the Matrix online. Devs assumed the role of a Main character, giving players a good experience.
Concept:
Hire talented actors with typing experience / produce voice overs for key points in a plot (These can be pre-recorded)
Hire Writers that are very familiar with the iP in question: Whether it be STO, The lore of Elder Scroll Online etc...
These writers will write an indepth plotline that the actor can roleplay their role as either antangonists or protaganist. Giving the actor leeway within the confines of the story arc.
Its a bit daunting, and what I am merely suggesting is a rough concept. However; it could be the next level of an MMO experience.
This concept may be far fetch for smaller companies, but it can be done. It is a unique concept - so one if those Kickstarter MMO's try to incorporate it, along with what I previously mentioned as to what I regard as Great MMO ideas, I think it can change the MMO experience in its entirety.
There just needs to be the right dollar amount in place, A risk taker company that is willing to invest etc... it could change the entire MMO market, at least thats my own opinon.
That sounds not bad.
But i see several problems here.
First would be higher costs, because of localisation. While i have no problem playing a english game, i know many people who prefer localized versions.
Second, they would need to hire a lot of actors, even for the player character alone. Althrough they wouldn't need for every race a new voice actor, i think it would sound strange to give a klingon character the voice of a bolian, or ferengi. They would also need the same amount of female actors.
Third, Cryptics had to hire people who are familiar with Star Trek. Now, that may sound like an insult, but i'm serious here. Cryptic NEEDS some people how are familiar with Star Trek and are willing to continue the canon universe, instead of this exaggerated storyline Cryptic has made. Federation and everyone else behave completely out of person in STO, a professional team of writers maybe could give STO a more typical Star Trek approach.
But on the other hand i am not a big fan of MMOs in general, i am more a singleplayer type of gamer. But since open world RPGs and sci fi RPGs are very rare and since STO is the only active developed Star Trek RPG, i have little choice.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
To answer the OP from my point of view: ST does not translate as well.
This may have been said already in other ways but Star Trek stories have conflict in every episode, but not all of them are solved with torpedoes or pistols. So, STO had to create a storyline that forced conflict to involve fighting with weapons as the primary solution. Words and diplomacy involve too many variables (like personality) to make it playable and fun.
In my humble opinion.
Still, when the fight is on STO can be a lot of fun ... from a certain point of view.
It translates just fine, I remember Starfleet Academy on the SNES, that rocked. BOTF was one of the best turn based strategy games of it's day, and Armada and sequels were plenty of fun. The MMO format is more challenging to translate Star Trek into I think, because everyone wants to be the hero, but you've got to be part of a team quite often in the endgame, be it STF, Fleet Mark Event, or PVP. I've been gone for a while so I've not checked on how it's progressed, but I'm sure it's still much the same, a good, if flawed Star Trek game.
I wish STO was more like bridge commander where you communicated with enemy vessels and used some diplomacy instead of always blowing them out of the sky. I dont think it is impossible to add more depth to the game just allow the player to decide how he wants to handle the mission. Take Deus Ex for example it was an FPS you could beat without ever killing anyone or you could just wreak havok the choice was yours.
A TIME TO SEARCH: ENTER MY FOUNDRY MISSION at the RISA SYSTEM Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
The thing with STO is that while your ship may be a crafting table or a trophy room, it just isn't designed to be a home where you can randomly encounter people, both NPCs, and live players.
And that's a big part of Trek that's missing.
Agreed. I would like the bridge crew to be real characters like KOTOR did with its character just less gloomy.
A TIME TO SEARCH: ENTER MY FOUNDRY MISSION at the RISA SYSTEM Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
That would not surprise me in the slightest if this is what happened. And you want to know what? The lower Starbase levels look hideous. Ops level looks alright, but I have issues with it for other reasons (See: Too much Blue). Though, all in all, I think Hathon of all things is the most Trek-like of all the environments. It looks like a dolled up street in California. Which is what most of Star Trek was. :P
Speaking of which, we need a model of this somewhere in the game. Just sayin'.... :P
Making Star Trek into a big budget series is missing the point of the series in the first place. Yes, I am so totally looking at you, Star Trek: The SlowMotion Picture.... Even movies that had bigger budgets, like First Contact, put the budget where it should have been. In First Contacts case that was making the Borg TRIBBLE-your-pants-worthy.
I agree there could be some work to improve the games look (all the mission based starbase location are land and dont look trek to me) but it is over ten years after Nemesis so they have changed the carpets and there is new technology the universe has moved on its not like all the star wars games set in the classic trilogy that just copy the movie look over and over. I hate the pillar like structures on the walls at esd just does not look loke something you should see on a space station.
A TIME TO SEARCH: ENTER MY FOUNDRY MISSION at the RISA SYSTEM Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
I agree there could be some work to improve the games look (all the mission based starbase location are land and dont look trek to me) but it is over ten years after Nemesis so they have changed the carpets and there is new technology the universe has moved on its not like all the star wars games set in the classic trilogy that just copy the movie look over and over. I hate the pillar like structures on the walls at esd just does not look loke something you should see on a space station.
I get that. But it doesn't look like Star Trek, in any way shape or form. Seriously, look at the 25th century uniforms. What part of that says "Trek" to you? Seriously, remove the combadges and there is nothing there that says "Star Trek". It could literally be any Sci-Fi series, they are so generic. ****ING HEXAGOOOOOOOOOOONS!!!!!
*Ahem*
In short, they're bad. While original are all well and dandy, I loathe the "Canon" STO uniforms. Fashion/design wise they just look plain ol' ugly. From a marketing standpoint? It's atrocious. I'll say it again, they could literally be from any Sci-Fi series. That is very bad when you're trying to market a licensed game. I think it would be very beneficial for Crypic to put all the NPC's in the movie uniforms with a few variations. I don't know of anyone who really uses the standard ones anyway other than the fact you can show boob with them. :P Do that to the Movie uniforms and we have ourselves a more recognizable game.
I get that. But it doesn't look like Star Trek, in any way shape or form. Seriously, look at the 25th century uniforms. What part of that says "Trek" to you? Seriously, remove the combadges and there is nothing there that says "Star Trek". It could literally be any Sci-Fi series, they are so generic. ****ING HEXAGOOOOOOOOOOONS!!!!!
*Ahem*
In short, they're bad. While original are all well and dandy, I loathe the "Canon" STO uniforms. Fashion/design wise they just look plain ol' ugly. From a marketing standpoint? It's atrocious. I'll say it again, they could literally be from any Sci-Fi series. That is very bad when you're trying to market a licensed game. I think it would be very beneficial for Crypic to put all the NPC's in the movie uniforms with a few variations. I don't know of anyone who really uses the standard ones anyway other than the fact you can show boob with them. :P Do that to the Movie uniforms and we have ourselves a more recognizable game.
Which is something we kind of need ain't it?
I vote more with the All good things uniform, Movie uniform is good too, either or for me.
Star Trek can translate well to games. Too bad Developers these days seem to not be bothered to even try to make their game reflect the IP it is based on. To their mind, all they need to do is slap the IP name on the label and it's gold.
But let me put this out there:
How many episodes of Star Trek were about exploration?
How many episodes focused on them going from planet to planet cataloguing this and that and scanning stuff. Yes, they did that in episodes, but the episodes weren't ABOUT them doing it. they were ABOUT them dealing with things they discovered, or things that happened to them WHILE exploring.
Exploring is what the crew did off the screen. Dealing with stuff is what we got to watch them do... This is why creating workable exploration content for STO is so difficult.
What is a class-two comet good for in my mission? What good is a planetoid devoid of life to me? Perhaps a research vessel needs cometary matter, or the Starfleet corps of engineers can do with setting up a mine. If I discover it, it should be logged and after reporting my findings to Starfleet, a mission can be given to someone in those fields to visit the comet or planetoid and follow up with something useful. That way something that may be uneventful to me may be exactly what someone else can use.
We also need a system by which unexplored space can be charted and what one discovers is what is actually there.
In my understanding, things like anomalies of the week and most alien of the week stuff is exploration. The crew learns something new about the universe, which doesn't have to mean adding more stars to their maps.
Exploration doesn't have to be some boring charting mission. A good game designer would include mystery solving and a good amount of sense of wonder. (which one doesn't find very easy in todays video games.).For Starfleet ships, conflicts should preferably be solved peacefully, which should give somekind of bonus.
There could even be some "mission" be inside your ship, like some anomaly which affects your ships crew, or similar problems.
Just look at some episodes, there are plenty of them. Cryptics even could integrate some community authored missions in it.
I would like the AGT Uniform, but the TNG Movie Uniform is free...........
I never liked the TNG Movie uniform (or the Voyager/DS9 uniform). They look like some black potato sack, which doesn't look very Starfleet-ish to me. (The producers/writers of DS9 again took every chanche to make "their" Star Trek look different, no matter if it is appropriate or not, just like Cryptics does. I hate that. :mad:)
On the other hand, i would love to have my toons to wear the AGT uniform, but it looks just plain ugly, especially the male version.
Curiously the female version looks way better then the male version IMO. I think the responsible designer didn't put as much work on the male version as on the female version.
The Cumberboud on the male version looks just odd, i can't say it otherwise.
Trying to color it the same way as the upper part of the uniform doesn't make it look better.
I wish cryptic would redo this uniform, so it wouldn't look so bad. (maybe by making the cumberbound just 1/2 high.). Personally i think they should release a AGT variant completely without that stupid cumberbound, i think it would look way better. (They could name it AGT II variant or something like that.)PICTURE
I think that uniform would be much more popular if it wouldn't look like some grandfathers trousers.
But there is no point in talking about it, they can't even manage to release the 29th century uniform in time.
Things like that aren't on their priority list, especially little things that would actually improve the game are getting systematicly ignored by them.
Back to Topic, i think with todays technical possibilities, game producers could create some really awesome Star Trek games. Today they could generate thousands of stars and a "living" universe, something like a 4x Game. But instead of playing a galactic leader, the player could be part of that universe, having one ship to upgrade and micromanage. STO did a good approach in it, by introducing BOFFs and DOFFs.
There could be endless possibilities if game producers wheren't that fearful and would explore new ways of making games.
Decisions being made by the player don't have to affect some story, but they could affect the game universe itself, economicly and the conditions between the various factions.
The game universe could develop more and more, the longer the game runs. It wouldn't need some epic story, the game itself would be the story, each time you play it it would be different. Colonies that have been founded some weeks ago (real time) will prosper or being aqttacked, depending on their position. Technical progress takes place and the players discoveries could help to unlock new equipment, ships or other things. The games map could change depending on sucess or failiure of some diplomatic missons for instance. Wars could break out and be ended, you name it.
Heck i would be happy if there where some games like that, i wouldn't care much about their graphics, as long as the game is fun.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Comments
Star Trek generations while having game design problems was a decent enough foray into exploring the "exploring" part of the IP.
Running around old ruins, solving puzzles, that is still engaging today.
A final unity. Anniversary.
Elite force was a nice foray into fps.
No, STO is entirely CBS's FAULT!
WHY? Because they did not want to make the required investment of time and money to create a GOOD Star Trek MMO.
They left the project unobserved in perpetuals incapable hands for years without any sort of "GET SOMETHING DONE YOU FREAKS!" rolling down the corporate line, and then when they noticed they immediately swung to the worst solution by taking cryptic up on its offer to adapt a mmo engine made for CLASSIC MMO gameplay (ie not made for even vaguely simulating you commanding a ship, like, err bridge commander did, a game which by that time was almost 10 years old and to this day has better space gameplay than STO can ever achieve with its engine) into a Star Trek game.
Do i blame cryptic? Perhaps but only partly because the real blame is with CBS, with Atari, with incompetent exec people that pulled the rug from under cryptic, disablign them from at least trying to evovle the game.
Did cryptic do a hackjob? yes. Could they have done better? No. With what? The time they didn't get, the budget they didn't have?
Nintendo made a succesfull game franchise out of a fat plumber. Do not blame the ip. This one is on its producers.
To expect a simple super-hero game making company to make something other than simple super-hero games is not logical.
I see that said but this is exactly how fantasy games operate too and people focus in on the super-hero aspect because that's what Cryptic did before.
Cryptic's prior super-hero titles are more managed like fantasy games in an urban setting than super-hero titles.
A true super-hero title would probably have more mind bending morality plays, secret identities, themed gadgets, etc.
In a sense, Cryptic has never specialized in super-hero games either and has done fantasy games reskinned and re-configured as super-heroes and science fiction.
The way powers are setup here, in Champs, and City of Heroes has more in common with the fantasy genre than the super-hero genre.
Even SOE's DCU Online is structured more like a fantasy game but their big shift is that they made travel more interactive with the environment in a way that's super-hero-y and they used actual super-hero characters.
A lot of the big functions of super-heroes are missing from all the super-hero MMOs and the mechanics tend to skew a lot more towards fantasy than super-heroes, with a few key innovations in each title that make it seem less like a high fantasy MMO.
Heck, true super-hero genre would be lighter on questgivers for one thing as super-heroes tend to supply their own quests or would actually make the villains the primary questgivers, along with some that would come from proprietary "supporting characters" to each hero rather than public figures, as a rule.
It might have been interesting to see an (admittedly niche) take on a true Trek Fantasy MMO by setting it back in the days of the Fek'Ihiri and the Stone of Gol or by setting it in the Eugenics Wars.
I think the smart approach to a true super-hero themed MMO would probably give each hero a full city as a form of active player housing, a rogues gallery (not just one arch enemy), and supporting characters, with city construction as a prominent feature since real super-heroes tend to inhabit cities which reflect their personality.
You'd visit other heroes' cities or team up in social international and intergalactic locales.
And you'd need secret identities.
I believe it was Heinlein that wrote "All the traffic will bear, but don't make the mark anemic" which is also something Cryptic/PWE/Atari just can't seem to grasp. For every step this game has made forward since switching to F2P (and there have been quite a few) they have taken two steps back in their treatment of us, the customers. Being convinced that you can get blood from a rock doesn't make it possible but they seem to be more than willing to try.
The other games mentioned have added greatly to the Star Trek mythos while some others have detracted from it but I can't think of anything that has done more outright damage to the IP and Roddenberry's vision of Star Trek than STO. Using the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition is not an acceptable alternative to business ethics, the Blessed Exchequer is not going to be there to accept your bribe Cryptic.
STO started out as promising, nothing more and has had some wild fluctuations in its marketing systems. I have an irrational fear of anything that looks like the thin end of a wedge and that's what the C-Store was. There were people that called me paranoid when it came out and I came out against it, most of whom have probably quit by now, but that is exactly what it has proven to be. When F2P came out, I had a healthy and active fleet, shortly after it came out it went from almost 200 very active members to less than a half a dozen.
It isn't that the IP doesn't lend itself to games or to any particular game style it's that the companies involved seem to have no sense of business ethics or how to treat their customers to survive, they just market the TRIBBLE out of the game/items and hope they make money before it all crashes and they can sell it off to the next sucker or shut it down before they go bankrupt (PWE is already morally bankrupt so that isn't an issue at all).
That wouldn't work. That would only make the players smaller, rather than making the world bigger and wouldn't solve anything.
Another reason STO doesn't feel very Trek, is everything is comically out of scale. The Defiant is two times bigger than it should be, the Bug and BoP should should be smaller than the Defiant, DS9 is too big, Spacedock is too small, poor K-7 is almost 50 times bigger than it should be, the list goes on..
It certainly wouldn't fix it, but if everything was it's correct size (Or close enough), then that would do wonders for the Trekiness of this game.
For problem solving, exploring, non-combat oriented, and storytelling Myst from 90s is an example of a game that does both.
For a variety of "non-combat winning" methods, strategy, sci-fi, and story telling the turn based 90's Alpha Centauri is a good example.
For Open Sector Space PvP environment on large MMO scale w/backstory (not much in progression b/c meant to be player sandbox driven) the current MMO EvE online.
For exploring systems @ MMO scale, W-Space EvE Online.
Pre F2P this game had the potential to meld Seasonal T.V. show storytelling w/gameplay via Featured Episodes. It would have meant good writing, good voice acting, good sound/music, branching options w/means of tracking events from 1 episode to the next based on how a player played the previous episode(s). Unfortunately, that's gone.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Oh I see the miscommunication:
When you said RPG I believed you to be referring to the more cerebral pen and paper Games instead of just online stuff.
Where did I say RPG?
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
One of my Hobbies is Science Fiction writing so I have fun putting my characters in pen and paper RPGs to see what they would do in a given situation.
That said I have spent many hours alone on the computer with a good RTS game.
The Defiant should be around 170 meters. How far off would YOU say it is from that?
As a side note, just how long is the Odyssey? 1.5km?
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
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I think it's both.
On one hand a Star Trek game is much harder to make, because there is no clearly defined theme or conflict. Just look at the various defintions fans have what Star Trek is about... But these are mostly minor issues.
Most agree that StarTrek is about peacefully exploration/keeping peace, but not to kill everything on sight!
On the other hand, i think cryptic did a horrible job in picturing a believable Star Trek universe. I don't want to rant AGAIN about cryptic, i just want to say that their interpretation is way off the mark. It's almost a mirror universe Game than a prime universe StarTrek game IMHO.
In my opinion, they did almost everything wrong. If it's the visuals and their designs, most game mechanics, even the general story. Personally i think Cryptics devs aren't really qualified to make a Star Trek game, their agenda about Star trek contradicts almost everything Star Trek is about IMHO.
They better had created their own Sci fi universe, i think this game would have been much better.
I think StarTrek is most unsuitable for a MMO. Star Trek always was about one ship (station), one crew. To equalize everything and to make it something like a money generating/hunting game is not really what i think a Star Trek game should be about.
I hope my english is understandable, since most of the time i find it difficult to find the right words in my native language.
One game that comes to mind that did it to liimited extent was the Matrix online. Devs assumed the role of a Main character, giving players a good experience.
Concept:
Hire talented actors with typing experience / produce voice overs for key points in a plot (These can be pre-recorded)
Hire Writers that are very familiar with the iP in question: Whether it be STO, The lore of Elder Scroll Online etc...
These writers will write an indepth plotline that the actor can roleplay their role as either antangonists or protaganist. Giving the actor leeway within the confines of the story arc.
Its a bit daunting, and what I am merely suggesting is a rough concept. However; it could be the next level of an MMO experience.
This concept may be far fetch for smaller companies, but it can be done. It is a unique concept - so one if those Kickstarter MMO's try to incorporate it, along with what I previously mentioned as to what I regard as Great MMO ideas, I think it can change the MMO experience in its entirety.
There just needs to be the right dollar amount in place, A risk taker company that is willing to invest etc... it could change the entire MMO market, at least thats my own opinon.
Yeah. Well, there's no consistent scale so any "investigation" will be off and the blueprints aren't really helpful either.
It was 170M in hero shots and the DS9 manual says 170 meters. Otherwise, I'd suggest not expecting the scale to make sense.
Outside of STO, the only Star Trek games I've found that were remotely enjoyable were Klingon Academy and Judgement Rites. Especially Judgement Rites. So far, all other Star Trek games can bite me.
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → Ⓑ Ⓐ
Not even Bridge Commander?
But i see several problems here.
First would be higher costs, because of localisation. While i have no problem playing a english game, i know many people who prefer localized versions.
Second, they would need to hire a lot of actors, even for the player character alone. Althrough they wouldn't need for every race a new voice actor, i think it would sound strange to give a klingon character the voice of a bolian, or ferengi. They would also need the same amount of female actors.
Third, Cryptics had to hire people who are familiar with Star Trek. Now, that may sound like an insult, but i'm serious here. Cryptic NEEDS some people how are familiar with Star Trek and are willing to continue the canon universe, instead of this exaggerated storyline Cryptic has made. Federation and everyone else behave completely out of person in STO, a professional team of writers maybe could give STO a more typical Star Trek approach.
But on the other hand i am not a big fan of MMOs in general, i am more a singleplayer type of gamer. But since open world RPGs and sci fi RPGs are very rare and since STO is the only active developed Star Trek RPG, i have little choice.
This may have been said already in other ways but Star Trek stories have conflict in every episode, but not all of them are solved with torpedoes or pistols. So, STO had to create a storyline that forced conflict to involve fighting with weapons as the primary solution. Words and diplomacy involve too many variables (like personality) to make it playable and fun.
In my humble opinion.
Still, when the fight is on STO can be a lot of fun ... from a certain point of view.
I wish STO was more like bridge commander where you communicated with enemy vessels and used some diplomacy instead of always blowing them out of the sky. I dont think it is impossible to add more depth to the game just allow the player to decide how he wants to handle the mission. Take Deus Ex for example it was an FPS you could beat without ever killing anyone or you could just wreak havok the choice was yours.
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
Agreed. I would like the bridge crew to be real characters like KOTOR did with its character just less gloomy.
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
I get that. But it doesn't look like Star Trek, in any way shape or form. Seriously, look at the 25th century uniforms. What part of that says "Trek" to you? Seriously, remove the combadges and there is nothing there that says "Star Trek". It could literally be any Sci-Fi series, they are so generic. ****ING HEXAGOOOOOOOOOOONS!!!!!
*Ahem*
In short, they're bad. While original are all well and dandy, I loathe the "Canon" STO uniforms. Fashion/design wise they just look plain ol' ugly. From a marketing standpoint? It's atrocious. I'll say it again, they could literally be from any Sci-Fi series. That is very bad when you're trying to market a licensed game. I think it would be very beneficial for Crypic to put all the NPC's in the movie uniforms with a few variations. I don't know of anyone who really uses the standard ones anyway other than the fact you can show boob with them. :P Do that to the Movie uniforms and we have ourselves a more recognizable game.
Which is something we kind of need ain't it?
I vote more with the All good things uniform, Movie uniform is good too, either or for me.
I would like the AGT Uniform, but the TNG Movie Uniform is free...........
Exploration doesn't have to be some boring charting mission. A good game designer would include mystery solving and a good amount of sense of wonder. (which one doesn't find very easy in todays video games.).For Starfleet ships, conflicts should preferably be solved peacefully, which should give somekind of bonus.
There could even be some "mission" be inside your ship, like some anomaly which affects your ships crew, or similar problems.
Just look at some episodes, there are plenty of them. Cryptics even could integrate some community authored missions in it. I never liked the TNG Movie uniform (or the Voyager/DS9 uniform). They look like some black potato sack, which doesn't look very Starfleet-ish to me.
(The producers/writers of DS9 again took every chanche to make "their" Star Trek look different, no matter if it is appropriate or not, just like Cryptics does. I hate that. :mad:)
On the other hand, i would love to have my toons to wear the AGT uniform, but it looks just plain ugly, especially the male version.
Curiously the female version looks way better then the male version IMO. I think the responsible designer didn't put as much work on the male version as on the female version.
The Cumberboud on the male version looks just odd, i can't say it otherwise.
Trying to color it the same way as the upper part of the uniform doesn't make it look better.
I wish cryptic would redo this uniform, so it wouldn't look so bad. (maybe by making the cumberbound just 1/2 high.). Personally i think they should release a AGT variant completely without that stupid cumberbound, i think it would look way better. (They could name it AGT II variant or something like that.)PICTURE
I think that uniform would be much more popular if it wouldn't look like some grandfathers trousers.
But there is no point in talking about it, they can't even manage to release the 29th century uniform in time.
Things like that aren't on their priority list, especially little things that would actually improve the game are getting systematicly ignored by them.
Back to Topic, i think with todays technical possibilities, game producers could create some really awesome Star Trek games. Today they could generate thousands of stars and a "living" universe, something like a 4x Game. But instead of playing a galactic leader, the player could be part of that universe, having one ship to upgrade and micromanage. STO did a good approach in it, by introducing BOFFs and DOFFs.
There could be endless possibilities if game producers wheren't that fearful and would explore new ways of making games.
Decisions being made by the player don't have to affect some story, but they could affect the game universe itself, economicly and the conditions between the various factions.
The game universe could develop more and more, the longer the game runs. It wouldn't need some epic story, the game itself would be the story, each time you play it it would be different. Colonies that have been founded some weeks ago (real time) will prosper or being aqttacked, depending on their position. Technical progress takes place and the players discoveries could help to unlock new equipment, ships or other things. The games map could change depending on sucess or failiure of some diplomatic missons for instance. Wars could break out and be ended, you name it.
Heck i would be happy if there where some games like that, i wouldn't care much about their graphics, as long as the game is fun.