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Forums > Home› Test Servers› Tribble› Tribble - General Discussion and Feedback

Embassy Provisions?

entnx01entnx01 Member Posts: 549 Arc User
edited October 2012 in Tribble - General Discussion and Feedback
I looked at the Replicator and noticed a new item available for 750 Fleet Credits: "Embassy Provisions." It's a Very Rare pack, it seems, and says these items are used in the construction of the Fleet Embassy.

Is this a bit of a bone thrown to effectively let us use Fleet Credits instead of EC or DOFFs (or maybe even Dilithium?) in constructing the Embassy later? Any details the Devs can share?
Post edited by entnx01 on

Comments

  • brish01brish01 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Or is it a credit dump? I mean its not like oyull need to buy a whole lot of things with fleet credits.
    18.jpg
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    edited October 2012
    Embassy Provisions will be used as an input for Embassy projects. The cost is reduced as you advance your Industrial Fabricator (Starbase sub-facility) up to higher tiers. You will only see them in your Replicator if you are a member of a fleet.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • entnx01entnx01 Member Posts: 549 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    borticuscryptic wrote: »
    Embassy Provisions will be used as an input for Embassy projects. The cost is reduced as you advance your Industrial Fabricator (Starbase sub-facility) up to higher tiers. You will only see them in your Replicator if you are a member of a fleet.

    So the item itself is an input? Or you open it and get some input to donate?

    EDIT: And will there be other ways to get these, or is it effectively a Fleet Credit sink?
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Look, what am I missing? The patch notes don't mention half of this stuff, and I'm completely baffled by the talk of some Omega set changes.
    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    edited October 2012
    entnx01 wrote: »
    So the item itself is an input? Or you open it and get some input to donate?

    EDIT: And will there be other ways to get these, or is it effectively a Fleet Credit sink?

    The item itself is an input.

    It's less of a sink, and more of a progressive synergy. You build a Starbase so that you can build an Embassy. That sort of thing.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    borticuscryptic wrote: »
    The cost is reduced as you advance your Industrial Fabricator (Starbase sub-facility) up to higher tiers. You will only see them in your Replicator if you are a member of a fleet.

    Wow, talk about sticking it to small fleets. "Sorry, you have to pay more because you're a Tier 1 starbase."

    Not to mention forcing people to join fleets so they can enjoy the Embassy System.
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    edited October 2012
    azurianstar wrote: »
    Wow, talk about sticking it to small fleets. "Sorry, you have to pay more because you're a Tier 1 starbase."

    The inputs required on the Embassy are balanced around a base cost. Small/Low-Tier fleets are not penalized, but Larger/High-Tier fleets get a discount below that base cost
    azurianstar wrote: »
    Not to mention forcing people to join fleets so they can enjoy the Embassy System.

    The Embassy is a Fleet Holding. It always has been. If you're confusing this with the Reputation system, that is something completely separate. Embassy Provisions are not required in any way (nor are Fleet Credits) in the Reputation system.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    borticuscryptic wrote: »
    The inputs required on the Embassy are balanced around a base cost. Small/Low-Tier fleets are not penalized, but Larger/High-Tier fleets get a discount below that base cost.

    No offense, but that doesn't sound any better. Small fleets having to pay more than large ones? Costs should be the same or evenly scaled, as not to discriminate.
    borticuscryptic wrote: »


    The Embassy is a Fleet Holding. It always has been. If you're confusing this with the Reputation system, that is something completely separate. Embassy Provisions are not required in any way (nor are Fleet Credits) in the Reputation system.

    Can't confuse with the Reputation system since these systems really yet to be explained. ;)

    But still solo players should be allowed to enjoy some aspects of the system.
  • entnx01entnx01 Member Posts: 549 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    azurianstar wrote: »
    No offense, but that doesn't sound any better. Small fleets having to pay more than large ones? Costs should be the same or evenly scaled, as not to discriminate.

    Isn't it discrimination also to level things off and tell bigger fleets "Oh, we know you've worked hard but you're still gonna have to pay full price for the Embassy Provisions"?

    If they've worked on their Starbase, they should enjoy some benefits aside from unlocked purchasable gear.

    Also, think real-world...you start a manufacturing company but don't have the ability to produce your own Widget A. So you buy a bunch of Widget A from another seller. Eventually, you make enough money and grow enough to make a form of Widget A on your own for a lot cheaper.

    Then another, new, less advanced manufacturer needs Widget A. Should the original supplier of Widget A then offer this less advanced manufacturer Widget A at the same price as your cost to make your own version?
  • bones1970bones1970 Member Posts: 953 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    How many grinds will you put in the game ???
    Dilitium, STF, Fleetmarks, Doffs and now even more, looks like its time to look for something new to do.
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    entnx01 wrote: »
    Isn't it discrimination also to level things off and tell bigger fleets "Oh, we know you've worked hard but you're still gonna have to pay full price for the Embassy Provisions"?

    If they've worked on their Starbase, they should enjoy some benefits aside from unlocked purchasable gear.

    Also, think real-world...you start a manufacturing company but don't have the ability to produce your own Widget A. So you buy a bunch of Widget A from another seller. Eventually, you make enough money and grow enough to make a form of Widget A on your own for a lot cheaper.

    Then another, new, less advanced manufacturer needs Widget A. Should the original supplier of Widget A then offer this less advanced manufacturer Widget A at the same price as your cost to make your own version?

    That's a fallacy since you are using business competition practices to justify the argument. This is not the same, because player fleets aren't competiting against one another to sell "Romulan Commodities".

    The argument is more like two Gas Stations that are owned by the same company, where one is larger and selling gas at a cheaper cost than the smaller one down the street who is selling it at retail.


    So Small Fleets shoudn't be forced to pay more than a Large Fleet, solely because they are larger or at a higher tier. Especially with this DOFF DL Tax they are putting in.
  • denizenvidenizenvi Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Geez guys, it's not about big fleets versus small fleets. It's about getting benefits from completing starbase upgrades. The benefits don't care what size your fleet is, only what you've accomplished.


    Nothing stops a smaller fleet from paying the same discounted price. It just might be challenging to get the prerequisites done quite as quickly as a larger fleet. But both size fleets get the same benefits from the same upgrade, which sounds like equality to me.
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  • pantsmaster916pantsmaster916 Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I really don't get the whole "small/solo fleets deserve everything big fleets get" attitude. It's a FLEET system. I think Heretic originally told us it was designed around 25 people. You have fewer people in your fleet, or wanna fly solo, then suck it up - you're not the target balancing point. For that matter, neither is the fleet that's got 300 active members, where people are fighting over inputs for Fleet Credits.

    Especially when it comes to solo fleets. What an oxymoron that is.
  • switchngcswitchngc Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    borticuscryptic wrote: »
    The inputs required on the Embassy are balanced around a base cost. Small/Low-Tier fleets are not penalized, but Larger/High-Tier fleets get a discount below that base cost

    Again, sticking it to small fleets, which, based on previous Dev comments from the beginning of this current season is anything under 25 members and the VAST MAJORITY of the fleets in game.

    Honestly I enjoy smaller fleets (though not <5 people) because the fleet members actually tend to know each other, I've been in Large fleets before and it was basically that the officers knew each other (equivalent to what I would call a smaller fleet in numbers) and all the rest of the members were basically just a number. In my opinion, The purpose of a fleet is socialization, which tends to go away the more people there are. Seems to me larger fleets have more resources (and more people needing to be able to contribute too) not to mention they have to have a "larger base with more staff" so they should really require MORE inputs, not less. Seems to me that the way it is seems to be backwards, but what do I know?
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    denizenvi wrote: »
    Geez guys, it's not about big fleets versus small fleets. It's about getting benefits from completing starbase upgrades. The benefits don't care what size your fleet is, only what you've accomplished.


    Nothing stops a smaller fleet from paying the same discounted price. It just might be challenging to get the prerequisites done quite as quickly as a larger fleet. But both size fleets get the same benefits from the same upgrade, which sounds like equality to me.

    I could accept it if this reputation system allowed you and/or your fleet to get discount costs. But you shouldn't get it because you're Mr. Big.

    Not to mention, this just doesn't seem very Trek to me with one Fleet getting a discount over another.
  • latinumbarlatinumbar Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Think of it as a volume discount.

    Tier 1 fleet:
    Pays 100 FC per provision. Needs 50 provisions per project. Total cost: 5000 FC

    Tier 4 fleet:
    Pays 75 FC per provision. Needs 1000 provisions per project. Total cost: 75,000 FC.

    Higher tier fleets still pay more in FC.

    Plus, for large fleets, people will have fewer fleet credits per person. In contrast, players in small fleets will have massive amounts of fleet credits because they are the only ones donating.
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  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    The way you put that, makes the discount sounds reasonable.
  • denizenvidenizenvi Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    azurianstar wrote: »
    I could accept it if this reputation system allowed you and/or your fleet to get discount costs. But you shouldn't get it because you're Mr. Big.

    Not to mention, this just doesn't seem very Trek to me with one Fleet getting a discount over another.

    They don't get it from being 'Mr. Big'. They get the discount from spending the time and resources to do the project and get the benefits. Anyone can do that, with varying degrees of difficulty. No one is being left behind, and no one gets a free pass.


    In this case, you're advocating stripping all the embassy benefits from engineering tiers because not everyone can get them 'right now'. That's just not the right way to do things, IMO. Fleets should be able to benefit from expanding and attracting new supportive members. And small fleets aren't even cut out, they just might take longer.

    Like it or not, the fleet system is about progress as a group, not as an individual. So more people helps spread the load. Don't bemoan others' benefits from having productive groups when you can get the exact same thing in the long run.
    Take a look at my Foundry missions!

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  • phyrexianherophyrexianhero Member Posts: 768 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Costs I've found:

    Tier 0 Industrial Fabricator: n/a
    Tier 1 Industrial Fabricator: Embassy Provisions is 750 Fleet Credits (was actually Tier 0 had over 10k engineering XP)
    Tier 2 Industrial Fabricator: Embassy Provisions is 600 Fleet Credits
    Tier 3 Industrial Fabricator: ???
    Tier 4 Industrial Fabricator: ???
    Tier 5 Industrial Fabricator: ???

    Whether it's a linear trend or not remains to be seen.
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  • diafpwediafpwe Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    borticuscryptic wrote: »
    The inputs required on the Embassy are balanced around a base cost. Small/Low-Tier fleets are not penalized, but Larger/High-Tier fleets get a discount below that base cost

    That's a really good PR spin on it. But behind the excellent (mis)use of the english language, the fact remains that large fleets are rewarded, small fleets are not.
  • weylandjuarezweylandjuarez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I don't like this.

    I'm in two fairly small fleets - one Tier 2, the other just making Tier 1.

    Even at low Tiers, the amount of Dilithium you have to channel into Fleet projects is huge - the only tangible reward being access to Fleets ships and Weapons.

    Now you're introducing a new element that I have to spend hard-earned Fleet credits on to create? So all I've really done is exchange Dilithium for Fleet Credits which I'll then have to spend on Doffs ('cause of the insane price hikes) and materials to build new holdings?

    Which presumably I'll be able to get these Mk XII consoles from for further payments of Fleet Credits and Dilithium??

    This whole setup is starting to look like a long con - or possibly some ingenious tax swindle.
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  • phyrexianherophyrexianhero Member Posts: 768 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Look at it this way -- the reputation system is cheaper than the embassy which is cheaper than the starbase. We have individuals who've gotten Tier 1, 2, and even 3 (admittedly this last example is a few standard deviations above the norm) bases by themselves. Yes, the dilithium costs do add up quite a bit and that is a cause for concern, but it's not surprising that these long-term goals are easier if you have 1) lots more contributing members, 2) more time to get doffs, dilithium, energy credits, or 3) money to buy the things from #2.
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