Looking for a ** Different ** sort of fleet. Military discipline and politics req.

carmenara

You know what they say about fleet recruitment - there are certain keywords you use to make a fleet portray a "safe environment for players". It should have a "mature" playerbase, "drama free" cooperation and you can "do anything you wanted".

Take a look at the fleet recruitment entries around and you'll see everyone is trying to copy the same formulae.

But does it work? I've been moving around the fleet recruitment scene for nearly a year now, I've been in large fleets, small fleets, serious fleets, RP fleets and casual fleets.

And you have to wonder why I didn't settle down with an established guild and just go along with them, or failing which, start my own guild.

The reason is this - with that "utopian" language as I described above, fleet environments are almost never as they advertise. Drama free fleets are full of drama, in their own way. Do anything you want means don't expect any help or any activity in the fleet communications channels. Mature environment... More like dysfunctional.

I'm not mincing my words, because I am a collaborative individual who loves communication, whether it's with pilot training or running and gunning with PUGs. I make conversation with anything from hortas to vortas.

As a result of wanting to help certain fleets earlier this year I was verbally abused and was made a victim of online harrassment by one of the "mature, casual" fleets. When I told them communication should not result in TRIBBLE-like behaviour, I was simply told to run my own fleet. I was expected to be silent about the above mistreatment and the fleet admitted "they should have been more organized". Yes, do that, or start listening to your new F2P players that on their own free will ORGANIZED EVENTS AND DID RECRUITMENT FOR YOU effectively and professionally.

Guess what - I already have run my own fleet, and handed it over to former cadets as leadership training. Now that my fleet can run on autopilot I sort of want to do what I do best.

I want to join the most infamous fleets out there - ones with realistic military discipline, in-game performance standards (STFs + PvP) and I'm not afraid to say it, I want to see politics and drama as well. Not the rampant kind such as the aforementioned created by "mature, casual" seeming players, but the realistic kind, because if you're not happy you speak out about it and that's how a guild will progress and withstand the test of time. Players don't remain active in this game just to grind dilithium, they want to have a say in their own rights and the guild environment too. That's why we 'play politics' IRL.

What else do you expect people to do other than speak out for themselves? Bash one another in drunken brawls?

If you think I'm attacking your guild, GTFO.

If you got an opening for a crack miltiary RP style ESTF pilot and potential PvP expert, send me a hail

shadex

I would tend to agree with you on many of your asserted points. I myself have been in the market for a fleet of similar composition for quite some time. One thing you might look to clarify is the seeming contradiction of a request of military discipline along side of politics and drama. While I agree that the member base should be encouraged to give feedback any military organization will have very strict procedures in which that feedback must be handled. Open complaints in a public forum are universally frowned upon. Unless the desire is for more of a warband military mentality where might makes right and a member can challenge authority when they are prepared to fight for it. In either regard I wish you luck. Should you find what you are looking for please forward the information. I would be intrigued to look into it myself.

serevanq

I agree with you on some of those points Carmenara... some I don't really get fully, so I'd probably have to speak to you for a bit to see what you mean.

But the plethora of fleets out there these days hide the good ones like a needle in a haystack. Some of the fleets I've seen have been built solely on the premise that the founder wanted to be in charge.. then hands officer positions out like candy, to people with little understanding of leadership that then wear their command like stripes on their shoulders.

So where are the good ones? I don't know. I suppose it's like finding a best friend. You have to meet a lot of people, with all that such vulnerability implies. The recruitment messages are no way to tell, they can be misleading.

I find that catch words are telling. "multi game community" usually carries the danger that the members are likely to be playing elsewhere or will be, when the next best thing comes around. "Casual" can hide a total disregard for what's important to you. When I hear "military" I have found it means you play the way the leader plays, participate in what they want, roleplay what they intend or you're labeled a trouble maker.

I am still looking for that "best friend" fleet. I wish you luck in your search.

coldbeer72

Whiskey Rose!!!!!...Nice to see your still around.....god u didn't leave Hippie in charge did you!!!LOL
Have to say that my time with the academy was, while fun and VERY informative, still to structured for my tastes, hence my departure to strike out on my own.
@serevanq, the 'best friend' fleet can be found, a passing PM hail while zipping through sector space, and the rest as they say 'is history'. There may only be 2 of us but we enjoy the game, take the TRIBBLE out of each other on a regular basis, and manage (somehow) to get to T1 on our starbase in fairly short time all things considered.
For us its all about fun, and as long as that continues, the lack of members dosen't really bother us, and THAT is the factor that is missing from most fleets....the fun, and therefore the enjoyment is gone.

disposeableh3r0

carmenara wrote: »

You know what they say about fleet recruitment - there are certain keywords you use to make a fleet portray a "safe environment for players". It should have a "mature" playerbase, "drama free" cooperation and you can "do anything you wanted".

Take a look at the fleet recruitment entries around and you'll see everyone is trying to copy the same formulae.

But does it work? I've been moving around the fleet recruitment scene for nearly a year now, I've been in large fleets, small fleets, serious fleets, RP fleets and casual fleets.

And you have to wonder why I didn't settle down with an established guild and just go along with them, or failing which, start my own guild.

The reason is this - with that "utopian" language as I described above, fleet environments are almost never as they advertise. Drama free fleets are full of drama, in their own way. Do anything you want means don't expect any help or any activity in the fleet communications channels. Mature environment... More like dysfunctional.

I'm not mincing my words, because I am a collaborative individual who loves communication, whether it's with pilot training or running and gunning with PUGs. I make conversation with anything from hortas to vortas.

As a result of wanting to help certain fleets earlier this year I was verbally abused and was made a victim of online harrassment by one of the "mature, casual" fleets. When I told them communication should not result in TRIBBLE-like behaviour, I was simply told to run my own fleet. I was expected to be silent about the above mistreatment and the fleet admitted "they should have been more organized". Yes, do that, or start listening to your new F2P players that on their own free will ORGANIZED EVENTS AND DID RECRUITMENT FOR YOU effectively and professionally.

Guess what - I already have run my own fleet, and handed it over to former cadets as leadership training. Now that my fleet can run on autopilot I sort of want to do what I do best.

I want to join the most infamous fleets out there - ones with realistic military discipline, in-game performance standards (STFs + PvP) and I'm not afraid to say it, I want to see politics and drama as well. Not the rampant kind such as the aforementioned created by "mature, casual" seeming players, but the realistic kind, because if you're not happy you speak out about it and that's how a guild will progress and withstand the test of time. Players don't remain active in this game just to grind dilithium, they want to have a say in their own rights and the guild environment too. That's why we 'play politics' IRL.

What else do you expect people to do other than speak out for themselves? Bash one another in drunken brawls?

If you think I'm attacking your guild, GTFO.

If you got an opening for a crack miltiary RP style ESTF pilot and potential PvP expert, send me a hail

You should let us know if you find any. Granted I don't play all that often and when I do iit's never for very long but it seems like a properly structured environment would be adept at handling my kind of play habits. Think reserve forces vs active duty.

Altho to be fair I joined up with UFP recently and haven't hand any problems. Not sure if its your cup of borg tho.

http://ufplanets.com/

gundancertfr

Wellll... We do try. T.F.R. (Task Force Resurrected) has had it's share of problems, gotta admit. But, we try to weed out the bad, and promote and reward the good. That's why we opened up an Academy Fleet. You can get a feel for us, we can get a feel for you, and if you seem like a good fit in one of our Line Fleets, we'll give you a shot... If it interests you. We do try to help (minimum in-game rank to graduate the Academy is now 46, and we ask all graduates to participate in PvE and PvP prior to being assigned a Fleet), and all of our Deans and Instructors are long term Veterans, with access to other Vets to help guide your path. We also have many "real world" military Veterans, including three of our top officers, one of whom is an Active Duty NonCom in the U.S. Navy.

carmenara

Lol , I did not expect to see that others too want a similar kind of fleet environment.

Firstly though - @ the above invitations, I have already tried out TFR and UFP way back earlier this year and will not be applying to rejoin.

Regarding the level of 'politics / drama' - There's one thing very ironic about STO guild mentality. If everyone appeared to get along perfectly there would be no need for communication. People can also be forced to 'pretend' to get along like in certain guilds but the guild environment remains poor because of lack of standards.

I've seen all sorts of event management problems, and all sorts of ship performance issues from those so called "drama free" environments. It's when someone more knowledgeable and effective at piloting a starship (often a new guy) comes along that all the "drama" occurs.

This "drama" doesn't come from the new guy, surprisingly, but from the "veterans" who are so self-deceived by their own "good relations" (or lack thereof) that they start to label any sort of constructive feedback as "drama". It's especially when new recruits, left alone to do their own thing over the course of several weeks (as they wait patiently for non-existent Fleet Command to pull them out of probation), band together to create their own training and Starfleet style discussions that those "veterans" come along and make their guild time a living hell.

Those new guys for the record, are always those who can beat Elite STFs and top out PvP charts regardless of how poorly their PUG teammates are (they PUG because veterans ignore them on fleet chat and refuse to run with them). Certain self appointed "veterans" on the other hand appear to be hostile at the prospect of even running a partial PUG scenario, and when put into a PUG environment, severely **** it up by lack of teamwork or ownship capability.

That's why I -always- credit newbies and PUGs first in any discussion.

So "Drama" is a misnomer. Inept fleet leaders who use excuses such as "you are causing drama", or state that "some of us veterans have paid real money to be in this guild" should logically not hold any sort of command position in the first place.

It would be tolerable and even welcome in a KDF roleplay environment (Warband style is fun if people act the part. No carebear nonsense) or an Orion Syndicate environment, but this being a Starfleet forum I do expect officers to act like Starfleet officers or at the very least, Federation-trained personnel.

From what I have experienced in building my own guild (for the benefit of players), rules and regulations and unit structure is a moot point.

STO emphasizes in small team gameplay and the "pack mentality" must be very strong to create a functional ESTF and PvP team. We may have different people flying active ships each day but communication must be active and people must not be afraid to accept criticism even if it's a stupid newbie observation.

As proven many, many times in canon Star Trek, many noob ideas are refined rapidly into scenario-beating strategies in a matter of minutes under severe threat. Part of what binds people to communicate effectively in the heat of battle is a certain form of discipline that binds the unit together.

This discipline also ensures that the guild practises effective management strategy, throw out whatever nonsensical definition of what a guild should be and develop their own war-winning solutions within the context of a Star Trek gaming environment.

This is very easy to do. Delete mature, delete casual, give players the tools and leadership necessary to accomplish joint goals. People are not looking for carebear guilds and girly Victorian societies to "avoid conflict". They are piloting warships and fighting the Federation's enemies on a daily basis, so on that basis, a happy fleet is one that has the capability to win the most difficult engagements.

Remember, there's only drama if fleet management don't bother about peoples' welfare. People (especially new guys loaded with ZEN and Dil and enthusiastic to contribute) get dissatisfied with fleet management, they will speak up.

It's with handling these complaints and working together with the new guys that ultimately makes the guild stronger. Retreating into a mentality that says "you are not mature enough to be in our guild" not only speaks poorly of whomever in charge, but also illustrates that this guild is incapable of upholding the Federation's ideals of egalitarian society and equal opportunity for all.

Everyone too, has their own form of communication, and with that observation, the definition of "drama" versus "constructive discussion" can be very different between various individuals.

medtac124

Carmenara, is that your in-game handle as well?

davidfloresii

I know what you mean. I have tried shopping around for fleets with my alt. But they are either to strict on rules, are extreme role players, boring, don't get involved, or are just to small.

Luckily my main is in Task Force Spectre. In this fleet you can choose to be a solo player in the fleet, get involved in the in game chat and we answer any questions we can, join us on our teamspeak so we can help you with your build and do pve & pvp. You can buy anything from the fleet store once you contribute 100k to the starbase. We have the highest tier/level/exp starbase on the federation side. We do fun in fleet games for big prizes. I mean at the least throw an alt in here and see how we do.

http://www.youtube.com/USSReckoning

carmenara

@medtac

Yes, you can contact me in-game at @carmenara

mlouden03

I know of a fleet called Fleet Marine Force. they are pretty serious/militaryish. look them up in fleet roster search.