Niagara Class - What role?

farmallm

This one to me could be another Tactical role type. Then again it could be used in another role?

This is another I would love to see on STO.

rrincy

mm id say more of an engineering role , seeing as its whats loosely termed as a dreadnought

psycoticvulcan

The Memory Beta article calls it a "fast cruiser". So maybe a cruiser with a tactical edge, kind of like the Assault Cruiser. And it should have a good turn rate.

misskorya

Cruiser, with a damn good turning radius. I am all for the Niagara, I love that ship.

Type : Fast Cruiser

Unit Run : USS Niagara - Active
NCC 59804 USS Princeton - Destroyed
NCC 284731 USS Wellington - Active
plus 141 others built in total. 52 have been lost in all.

Commissioned : 2336 - 2360, class remains in service

Dimensions : Length : 443 m3
Beam : 260 m
Height : 130 m
Decks : 22

Mass : 2,950,000 metric tons
Crew : 520

Armament : 6 x Type VIII phaser arrays, total output 22,500 TeraWatts
2 x Standard photon torpedo tube with 80 rounds

Defence Systems : Standard shield system, total capacity 1,687,500 TeraJoules

Standard Duranium/Tritanium Double hull plus 0.4 cm High density armour.
Standard level Structural Integrity Field
Warp Speeds

(TNG scale) : Normal Cruise : 7
Maximum Cruise : 9
Maximum Rated : 9.4 for 12 hours.

Refit Cycle : Minor : 1 year
Standard : 1 years
Major : 25 years

Notes : Starfleet has always preferred to design Starships with a two nacelle configuration, it being long recognized that this is the ideal layout for optimal warp field efficiency.However, efficiency is not always the deciding factor and over the last few centuries vessels have been produced with one, three or even four nacelles. The Niagara class belongs to the three nacelle family; this means that the class has a small decrease in efficiency compared to the likes of the Galaxy class, but it does confer certain advantages. Like the Rigel class, the Niagara is able to travel on the upper nacelle pair whilst resting the Lower nacelle, or vice versa. This confers both higher cruise speed or longer component life on the engines, as well as enhancing manoeuvrability.

The Niagara design was fielded shortly after the Ambassador class, and originally showed a high degree of commonality with that class. Then Engineering hull and Nacelles were closely based on those of the Ambassador, and the ship is fitted with phaser arrays and a pair of photon torpedo tubes which, combined with its speed and agility, make it a formidable opponent in battle. The Primary Hull shows elements of the Ambassador design, but is also clearly a forerunner of the later Galaxy/Nebula/New Orleans family. Like all Starfleet ships its role is primarily one of peaceful exploration and diplomacy, and the Niagara has served well in these arenas. And as such is capable of handling multi-planetary conferences involving several high level diplomats and their staffs. In the scientific arena the ships high average speed allows it to cover greater areas than would be normal for a ship of this size, while the sensor fit on commissioning was of a generally more advanced type than that of the Ambassadors.

In the mid 2360's the Niagara's, together with their smaller cousins the Freedom class, where refitted with Galaxy class nacelles in order to enhance their acceleration and turning ability, important to a ship which is more biased toward combat than most Starfleet ships.

Class production began in early 2336 and was completed after a thirteen year run which put one hundred and nine ships into the fleet. The Niagara-class saw combat along with other classes of vessel during a war with the Cardassian Union, starting in 2347 continues to the present day. Several Niagara class ships fought at Wolf 359, including the USS Princeton. The USS Wellington received a computer upgrade from the Binars, one of the first Starfleet ships to undergo this procedure the same ship was later involved in the incident at Garon II in which Ensign Ro Laren was held responsible for the deaths of eight people. The ships have served with some distinction during the Dominion war, though they have suffered heavily with twenty three ships destroyed so far.

artan42

A costume for the Ambassador class.

christopherchase

psycoticvulcan wrote: »

The Memory Beta article calls it a "fast cruiser". So maybe a cruiser with a tactical edge, kind of like the Assault Cruiser. And it should have a good turn rate.

I think this would be fitting for it.

misskorya

I don't like the idea of the Niagara simply being a costume, or a configuration, however; this wouldn't stop cryptic from offering the Niagara as a variation despite the fact that the ships are different in sizes. While yes, the Ambassador and Niagara are both 'cruisers,' there is a bit of a difference.

Type : Enhanced scientific/diplomatic explorer

Unit Run : NCC 26849 USS Adelphi - Active
NCC 10521 USS Ambassador - Active
NCC 1701-C USS Enterprise - Destroyed
NCC 26517 USS Excalibur - Active
NCC 265134 USS Exeter - Active
NCC 266324 USS Gandhi - Active
NCC105324 USS Horatio - Destroyed
NCC 26198 USS Valdemar - Active
NCC 26510 USS Yamaguchi - Destroyed
NCC 26136 USS Zhukov - Active
plus 48 others built in total. 27 have been lost in all.

Commissioned : 2330 - 2357, class remains in service

Dimensions : Length : 526 m11
Beam : 320 m12
Height : 125 m12
Decks : 36

Mass : 2,350,000 metric tons
Crew : 550

Armament : 10 x Type IX phaser arrays, total output 30,000 TeraWatts
2 x Type 1 burst fire photon torpedo tube with 250 rounds

Defence Systems : Standard shield system, total capacity 2,025,000 TeraJoules
Standard Duranium/Tritanium Double hull plus 7 cm High density armour.
Standard level Structural Integrity Field

Warp Speeds
(TNG scale) : Normal Cruise : 6
Maximum Cruise : 8.8
Maximum Rated : 9.2 for 12 hours.

Notes: Now an important footnote in the lineage of many a starship, the Ambassador Class is no longer the backbone of Starfleet's exploration nor defensive arms. Once the pride of the fleet and considered, at the time, to be the pinnacle of starship development, technology developed for the Ambassador class has exploded into common usage among other classes of starships, while the grand spaceframe has slipped from active production and is slowly being replaced by newer designs, it still remains a notable class of vessel that continues to serve with distinction.

The Ambassador Class starship was a large departure from current trends in ship design when it was conceived. Nearly twice as large as the current mainstay, the Excelsior Class starship, the Ambassador class would change the face of Starfleet and influence ship design for decades to come. Initial design concepts were developed and toyed with at the newly formed Advanced Starship Design Bureau, Mars in 2249; some of the first concept models and drawings are still on display at the ASDB Museum. However, given the scale of the craft, the concept would remain just that until 2292, when a dramatic shift in Galactic Politics occurred. A shift that would effect the Federation, the Romulan Star Empire and the Klingon Empire well into the next century.

In early 2290, a marked increase of hostilities along the Klingon and Federation border occurred. This disturbing trend reached a peak in 2291 when the USS Oberon (NCC 4998) was forced to withdraw from an engagement against 2 B'rel Class Birds of Prey. According to published reports, Captain Oded Hammlin believed the vessel to be an arms smuggling corvette enroute from Andor to Klingon Space, and stopped the vessel before entering the neutral zone. 2 B'Rel Class Birds of Prey intercepted the Oberon and threatened to defend the corvette, accusing the Oberon of piracy. When the Oberon refused to withdraw, the B'Rel vessels engaged and disabled the Oberon while taking minimal damage. The Klingon Council quickly learned of their new vessels clear advantages against the backbone of the Federation and became increasingly daring in their action in and around the Neutral Zone. Up until the Ambassador class was launched, several more incidents of Excelsior class starships being forced to withdraw from tense confrontations due to being outgunned and out shielded by the newer B?rel class Birds of Prey occurred. The withdrawals illustrated just how dated and stagnant the United Federations of Planets Starfleet had become. Immediately, the design teams at Utopia Planitia quickly addressed this situation and, blowing the dust off of their concept models, quickly began work on the Ambassador Class Starship. Official sanctioning by Starfleet occurred in 2311 after the Tomed incident and funding and resources were allocated for the development of a new Defense Cruiser.

The Ambassador project would prove to set a new standard in starship design for the Federation, giving Starfleet a starship that was better armed, better equipped and more diversely equipped than any other starship ever before. The design brief for the Ambassador class starship called for a heavily armed Battlecruiser which could also serve the non-combat roles of heavy transport and deep space exploration. The resulting design exceeded expectations and the Ambassador class was quickly put into service.

Several design aspects of the Ambassador class made the space frame unique and were carried over into future designs. Among these was the increased internal cargo, crew and fuel capacity combined with an increased lift capability that gave the Ambassador class not only great size, but an endurance that rivaled the Excelsior Class and crew amenities allowing for much longer on station and patrol times, meaning more Ambassador class starships could remain on patrol longer and with less crew fatigue. Some of the last Ambassador class starships also had thick duranium armor, the precursor to the Defiant Class ablative armor, added to protect the vulnerable areas of the ship. Finally, the development of Phaser Array, which replaced the traditional Phaser Turret found on previous hull types such as the Excelsior and Miranda class hulls, were made standard for the Ambassador class. The arrays allowed for quicker recharge times and the ability to fire at multiple targets out of one array, rather than targeting turrets individually.

So successful were the Ambassador Class vessels, that the production team began looking at designing an improved Ambassador Class vessel. While shaving nearly 15 meters of length, resulting in a much smaller cargo hauling capability, the team was able to make the already hearty Ambassador Class more nimble in combat situations. The addition of 4 more phaser arrays also gave the class more bite. Further improvements in shielding, sensor, and computer technology would be implemented in the Ambassador-Refit design, but these advancements would not be enough to warrant a further production contract beyond the initial 1000 starships ordered by Starfleet. While the final 150 Ambassador Class vessels were of the Refit variety, the improvements and advancements made by the Ambassadors would be short-lived as a new age of Starship production was about to begin.

However, with the advent of the successful Akira and the announcement of the "Grand Redesign of the Fleet" with the Cheyenne, Galaxy and Nebula class starships, production of the Ambassador class slipped markedly. The Nebula Class, the new workhorse of the fleet, could fill the same roles as the Ambassador class, and could do them more efficiently and with greater range. As a result, the Ambassador mission role became more and more limited to the role of border patrol and defensive specialist with fewer and fewer assigned to deep space exploration and diplomatic transport. Continued refits kept the majority of the Ambassador class starships in service, despite the end of their active production run. The currently active starships serve the Federation well, but the recent Borg incursions and war with the Dominion has cut down severely the number of Ambassador class starships that remain in active service. Most of the Ambassador class starships were lost or damaged beyond repair, resulting in the decommissioning of the majority of active Ambassador starships. The current trend in Starship has also phased the Ambassador class out, with less crew intensive starships being the order of the day.

Ambassador
Niagara

paragon92518

farmallm wrote: »

This one to me could be another Tactical role type. Then again it could be used in another role?

This is another I would love to see on STO.

I see this ship as a hybrid-type ship, something along the lines of the new Chimira Class. If nothing else, it would certainly be fun to fly.

cidstorm

One of the worst designs in Star Trek history imo. But for the sake of hope that all canon ships make it into the game, I think it should be a slightly tankier and slower version of whatever the ambassador ends up being.

misterde3

misskorya, is there any particular reason you repeatedly post stuff from ditl.org?
Because even that site itself states in its own colour key that everything in those articles that is in white letters is entirely imaginary and sometimes even contradics canon.

annemarie30

So it's a three nacelle ambassador?

rrincy

pretty much , third pylon coming straight down from rear of the secondary hull , looks kinda dumb to be honest , that and its nacelles are galaxy ones instead of the stock ambassador class ones

artan42

misskorya wrote: »

I don't like the idea of the Niagara simply being a costume, or a configuration, however; this wouldn't stop cryptic from offering the Niagara as a variation despite the fact that the ships are different in sizes.

Um the Niagara is an Ambassador with an extra nacelle and pylon, how is it a different size?

paragon92518

artan42 wrote: »

Um the Niagara is an Ambassador with an extra nacelle and pylon, how is it a different size?

Approximate Niagara Class size:

http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/lcars24/lcars24-cover.jpg

Approximate Ambassador Class size:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/ambassador%20class%20schematic/LCARS24user/AMB4.png


Are these "canon"? I'm not sure. But I do believe there is a difference in size between the two ship classes.

cidstorm

Your links are messed up.

tlamstrike

paragon92518 wrote: »

Approximate Niagara Class size:

http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/lcars24/lcars24-cover.jpg

Approximate Ambassador Class size:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/ambassador%20class%20schematic/LCARS24user/AMB4.png


Are these "canon"? I'm not sure. But I do believe there is a difference in size between the two ship classes.

No those are not canon illustrations.

But the size discrepancies may come from the fact that the Niagara model was kitbashed from two different scales, the secondary hull was cast from the mold used for the 3 foot Enterprise-C model while the Nacelles were cast from the mold used for the 2 foot Enterprise-D model.

paragon92518

tlamstrike wrote: »

No those are not canon illustrations.

But the size discrepancies may come from the fact that the Niagara model was kitbashed from two different scales, the secondary hull was cast from the mold used for the 3 foot Enterprise-C model while the Nacelles were cast from the mold used for the 2 foot Enterprise-D model.

Perhaps this one is easier to understand:
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/fleet-chart.jpg

526 vs. 480 (Ambassador vs. Niagara)

row124

In my view this should only be a skin only for the Ambassador class. Just like how the Nebula got a skin variant. The Ambassador class should have one too and Niagara should be it.

misskorya

To answer a poster's question: 'Cos I pulled this from one of my old play by forum sites, and finding Niagara statistics that detailed is really hard to come by, for RP purposes anyway.

However, there is a size difference as pointed out and it can be found on Ex Astris Scientia.

*cough*

Now then. I would be okay with a skin.

So long as the Niagara was available, I'd be quite alright with that. Since I think if we get it, it's more than likely how we'll get it.

But, it'd be odd wouldn't it? Most skins are just simple variations. This one would have a third nacelle. Not even the Cheyenne's alternatives came without their four nacelles. [I don't think, correct me though, I've never had one in-game].

artan42

misskorya wrote: »

To answer a poster's question: 'Cos I pulled this from one of my old play by forum sites, and finding Niagara statistics that detailed is really hard to come by, for RP purposes anyway.

However, there is a size difference as pointed out and it can be found on Ex Astris Scientia.

*cough*

Now then. I would be okay with a skin.

So long as the Niagara was available, I'd be quite alright with that. Since I think if we get it, it's more than likely how we'll get it.

But, it'd be odd wouldn't it? Most skins are just simple variations. This one would have a third nacelle. Not even the Cheyenne's alternatives came without their four nacelles. [I don't think, correct me though, I've never had one in-game].

The size isn't a problem, the size variation in the Niagara compared with the Ambassador, is in the saucer, the Imperial Class is at least 10 metres shorter than all the other Sovrine variants.

paragon92518

misskorya wrote: »

To answer a poster's question: 'Cos I pulled this from one of my old play by forum sites, and finding Niagara statistics that detailed is really hard to come by, for RP purposes anyway.

However, there is a size difference as pointed out and it can be found on Ex Astris Scientia.

*cough*

Now then. I would be okay with a skin.

So long as the Niagara was available, I'd be quite alright with that. Since I think if we get it, it's more than likely how we'll get it.

But, it'd be odd wouldn't it? Most skins are just simple variations. This one would have a third nacelle. Not even the Cheyenne's alternatives came without their four nacelles. [I don't think, correct me though, I've never had one in-game].

Since You have all the answers *cough, cough* perhaps You should post the information.

misskorya

artan42 wrote: »

The size isn't a problem, the size variation in the Niagara compared with the Ambassador, is in the saucer, the Imperial Class is at least 10 metres shorter than all the other Sovereign* variants.

I'm not concerned with size, my concern is the Niagara's one little feature that sticks out. Her third nacelle. It's why it'd be just odd, as a skin of the Ambassador.

I'd love to see her as her own vessel personally, then I don't have to choose between Ambassador or Niagara, or make some ship with their parts... even if the Niagara is partly made of the Ambassador. Hmmm.

Anyway, that's all. Just her third nacelle really.

Besides size doesn't matter!

In the words of Worf.

"LITTLE?!"

misterde3

misskorya wrote: »

To answer a poster's question: 'Cos I pulled this from one of my old play by forum sites, and finding Niagara statistics that detailed is really hard to come by, for RP purposes anyway.

I see. Thanks.

However I'd like to respectfully point out that without any kind of indication where this info comes from it's difficult for other to know what it is and what it isn't.
Those who don't know better might be inclined to just accept it as canon information even though it's actually fan fiction since they have no way to check what the source itself has to say about this material.
I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh and "smart-alecky" because that's not what it's supposed to be.
But just a few weeks ago I had a discussion that actually went in just this direction:
Someone quoted a wiki that had blatantly copied over stuff from DITL and since it was from a wiki that copied it over from ditl (without referencing it) it was more canon than the official "Ships of the Line" calender and the TNG Technical Manual...because stuff on the internet is always true.
I guess I'm a little jaded when it comes to stuff like this.

Anyway, thanks again.

luxchristian

Please not another old and ugly ship which was just a cheap and quick build for a szene in ST:NG.

I find the STO Fan Designs like the Odyssey and the Chimera (except for the transformation part) much better. They look more appropriate for the year 2409.

woerligen

luxchristian wrote: »

Please not another old and ugly ship which was just a cheap and quick build for a scene in ST:NG.

I find the STO Fan Designs like the Odyssey and the Chimera (except for the transformation part) much better. They look more appropriate for the year 2409.

Well, it is a canon ship and has its fans. In addition, we already have the Cheyenne, which is from a related spaceframe family and of similar age. Thus, there is no in-game reason to block the return of the New Orleans, Springfield, etc. classes.

However, I also understand why you'd want more ships appropriate for the current era.

misterde3

woerligen wrote: »

Well, it is a canon ship and has its fans. In addition, we already have the Cheyenne, which is from a related spaceframe family and of similar age. Thus, there is no in-game reason to block the return of the New Orleans, Springfield, etc. classes.

However, I also understand why you'd want more ships appropriate for the current era.

Fortunately, the two aren't mutually exclusive.
And just like with the Cheyenne, Cryptic can always add hull versions with more modern parts.
In case of the New Orleans, this should also be comparatively easy since she's closely related to the Cheyenne: just use the parts for ships like the Stargazer (sub-)class as additional options.
Sure the nacelles would have to be slightly altered to match the general proportions of the New Orleans model, but otherwise this should be relatively easy to accomplish.
Et voila: a 2409 New Orleans is possible using a relatively cost effective method: reclycling.;)

I'm sure something similar could be done with the Niagara and say...parts from the Venture (sub-)class.

misskorya

You're Welcome.

I completely understand your view point misterde3.

On to current discussions:

I agree with misterde3. Since the Cheyenne is in game, and comes from said era. There is no reason for the Niagara, or any of her companions to be blocked. If anything they commemorate a brilliant episode of "The Next Generation." I did read in Memory Alpha in regards to the Niagara's construction, and she could very well indeed use parts from the Venture.

Memory Alpha wrote:

Jein used the molds he had of the Ambassador-class and the two-foot Galaxy-class studio models to cast parts for the secondary hull and nacelles, respectively. The other parts he built from scratch. The model was from the start constructed as being pre-damaged. Michael Okuda later remarked, "Greg Jein built a number of severely-damaged hulls and parts for the graveyard scene. Greg is one of the unsung heroes of Star Trek. (...) The three-nacelled ship was made by Greg Jein. (...) I remember reminding Greg that Gene didn't approve of odd-numbers of nacelles." [1] The appearance of the class in "Unification I" was stock footage of "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II".

And if we're going to knock on old ships, then don't even look down at the Excelsior, much less the Constitution.

paragon92518

luxchristian wrote: »

Please not another old and ugly ship which was just a cheap and quick build for a szene in ST:NG.

I find the STO Fan Designs like the Odyssey and the Chimera (except for the transformation part) much better. They look more appropriate for the year 2409.

I totally disagree. Odyssey ...U-G-L-Y as sin!
The Chimera...eh, it's not too bad, and certainly better looking than that whale....er, the Odyssey.
But, I guess that's why they say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

misskorya

I have little intention of getting the Chimera, it bothers me greatly by its design. I'd much prefer to have seen the Legacy-class, or Century-class as alternatives now those are two beautiful fan made vessels.

Back on topic:

How would one, if the Niagara per say came as a skin. How do you present that, if you are Cryptic/PWE. She's got three nacelles versus the Ambassador's two.

On top of this, what consoles would you offer the Ambassador/Niagara and do you add two alternative skins to aid in this new 'kit-bashing.'

psycoticvulcan

Since the Niagara is a three-nacelle design, would it work as a Deep Space Science Vessel?

farmallm

luxchristian wrote: »

Please not another old and ugly ship which was just a cheap and quick build for a szene in ST:NG.

I find the STO Fan Designs like the Odyssey and the Chimera (except for the transformation part) much better. They look more appropriate for the year 2409.

We all with our thoughts on these. Some of the newer ships, you won't even see me use one. I can't stand their looks. Which is why I hadn't bought any yet. I'm almost to the point of buying the Odyssey. But the neck area with twin necks looks weak, and the saucer isn't even centered right. Which is why I'm still using the Sovereign.