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Here is a list of what abilities just became Completely Useless ATTN Jman.
ghostyandfrosty
Member Posts: 864
Extend Shields. This is a power that pretty much has to be an On Demand ability for several reasons. Here are the reasons. 1: Damage Cycles in this game can be staggered. ES can't. The in ability to put ES down range in an emergency Clutch situation means, the target will die in very short order. 2 Damage scales much faster than any other heal in the game (even several) can keep up with. Now you just wait for your enemy cruisers to cycle their emergency power to shields, and then you go pop your primary. Or, you just watch as the cruiser throws the emergency extends, and then go pop him because his own SDR is going to be in the Toilet.
Sci Team 2, and Sci Team 3: These two otherwise Good Flash Heals, have 0 resistance. Meaning as fast as you donate someone shield points they are going to be blown right back off again. Putting Extend Shields into the Boarding Party category, also completely destroys these two abilities as a heal. It also relegates the sci team development lab scientists into Useless land, which people DO pay money to acquire. Simply put, you can not apply enough SDR now to make the heals worth it.
Eng Team 2 or 3 (1 has always sucked): For much the same reason as above, and also now it has to compete with EPTS2 or 3. This also ruins the eng team doffs. Infact it's actually Worse for ET than it is for ST, since ST actually fixes shields. Hull is even easier to munch through even if a target has full HDR.
EPTS1: What was once a useful ability to keep your shield power running high during Extend cycles on a cruiser, or sci ship or carrier for that matter no longer has the required resistance level should the healer become suddenly focused. It also was once a staple ability for Fleet Escorts, Jemmys, MVAEs and pretty much any and all other ships in the game. Now the base line resistance is going to be far too low.
EPTS2 on Cruisers. It doesn't provide enough SDR.
Eject Warp Plasma 1: The reason this power just became suddenly useless overnight should be abundantly obvious to anyone that pvps on a high end level and plays with #s like I and several others do. The damage it applies is fairly low, it's best ability was the Slow for eng captains and sci captains, and still allow for a Cmdr Level Heal being put into place. Now it has to compete with one of the only abilities in the game that can provide enough SDR and shield power to keep you alive during Focus periods, (and that's only with lots of Help from your sci allies) and that is EPTS3.
DEM2, DEM3 (DEM1 has always been Terrible): DEMs best viability, period is when shield tanking is so high that you can't crack shield facings. DEM forces teams to run at least moderate levels of hull healing. This also coincidentally effectively lowers the amount of SDR (shield damage reduction for those Noob Devs reading this) a given team can perform with. Thanks to the current changes, DEMs damage will not be applied faster than any given Skilled Team can simply just burn through enemy shields and /faceroll to Victory.
Reverse Shield Polarity: Just wait for the green diaper to end. and /faceroll your targets.
Miracle Worker 3: This one suffers both ST and ET3s fate.
Scattering Field: This one gets an indirect kick in the crotch because it's best use (and pretty much only use) was to lower bleedthrough damage during extend periods. Otherwise it simply does not provide enough HDR to be worthy of note.
So now you have the Ultimate Selfish Builds now for cruisers just to have them Survive pvp. And their heals Suck Balls now. Their only use on a team is now Gone.
Transfer Shield strength 1: The resistance and HOT are both far too weak now to do anything resembling an amiable job. Now you will see sci ships carrying 2 TSS3s just to keep SDR up on the team as much as possible.
Viral Matrix 1: Transfer Shield Strength 3 just became the single most important heal in the game, you'll only be fielding sci ships that have the ability to mount 2 copies. This means VM1 is now off the list for viable sci abilities.
TBR2: See Above.
Tykens Rift2: See Above.
Grav Well 1: See Above.
Feedback Pulse 1, 2 or 3. It puts TSS on shared cool down. This is Very Bad. For reason, see VM1.
Scramble 2: just became even more of a farce than it already was. Reason, see above.
Transfer Shield strength 2 on sci ships. It's resistance is woefully inadequate without at least an ES1 to help it out somewhere during Focus periods.
Hazard Emitters 3: This ability now has to directly compete against the only shield resistance power in the game even semi capable of standing up to DPS. It's Done. By the way Jman, sci captains train HE3.
So you just kicked sci in the crotch AGAIN.
"Oh but mav hull tanking just became more important!" No no it didn't. Hull tanking is no more viable now than it was before and it's still Woefully inadequate in Real Pvp. This means the following abilities did NOT improve.
Polarize Hull 2 or 3.
APD1, 2 or 3.
ASIF1, 2 or 3.
AUX ID.
You can also add the Borg Shield Heal Proc, and Hull proc both to the Freakin Useless pile. As they do not apply resists of any sort. Too easy to just burn someone down right on through em without ES's resist.
Sci Team 2, and Sci Team 3: These two otherwise Good Flash Heals, have 0 resistance. Meaning as fast as you donate someone shield points they are going to be blown right back off again. Putting Extend Shields into the Boarding Party category, also completely destroys these two abilities as a heal. It also relegates the sci team development lab scientists into Useless land, which people DO pay money to acquire. Simply put, you can not apply enough SDR now to make the heals worth it.
Eng Team 2 or 3 (1 has always sucked): For much the same reason as above, and also now it has to compete with EPTS2 or 3. This also ruins the eng team doffs. Infact it's actually Worse for ET than it is for ST, since ST actually fixes shields. Hull is even easier to munch through even if a target has full HDR.
EPTS1: What was once a useful ability to keep your shield power running high during Extend cycles on a cruiser, or sci ship or carrier for that matter no longer has the required resistance level should the healer become suddenly focused. It also was once a staple ability for Fleet Escorts, Jemmys, MVAEs and pretty much any and all other ships in the game. Now the base line resistance is going to be far too low.
EPTS2 on Cruisers. It doesn't provide enough SDR.
Eject Warp Plasma 1: The reason this power just became suddenly useless overnight should be abundantly obvious to anyone that pvps on a high end level and plays with #s like I and several others do. The damage it applies is fairly low, it's best ability was the Slow for eng captains and sci captains, and still allow for a Cmdr Level Heal being put into place. Now it has to compete with one of the only abilities in the game that can provide enough SDR and shield power to keep you alive during Focus periods, (and that's only with lots of Help from your sci allies) and that is EPTS3.
DEM2, DEM3 (DEM1 has always been Terrible): DEMs best viability, period is when shield tanking is so high that you can't crack shield facings. DEM forces teams to run at least moderate levels of hull healing. This also coincidentally effectively lowers the amount of SDR (shield damage reduction for those Noob Devs reading this) a given team can perform with. Thanks to the current changes, DEMs damage will not be applied faster than any given Skilled Team can simply just burn through enemy shields and /faceroll to Victory.
Reverse Shield Polarity: Just wait for the green diaper to end. and /faceroll your targets.
Miracle Worker 3: This one suffers both ST and ET3s fate.
Scattering Field: This one gets an indirect kick in the crotch because it's best use (and pretty much only use) was to lower bleedthrough damage during extend periods. Otherwise it simply does not provide enough HDR to be worthy of note.
So now you have the Ultimate Selfish Builds now for cruisers just to have them Survive pvp. And their heals Suck Balls now. Their only use on a team is now Gone.
Transfer Shield strength 1: The resistance and HOT are both far too weak now to do anything resembling an amiable job. Now you will see sci ships carrying 2 TSS3s just to keep SDR up on the team as much as possible.
Viral Matrix 1: Transfer Shield Strength 3 just became the single most important heal in the game, you'll only be fielding sci ships that have the ability to mount 2 copies. This means VM1 is now off the list for viable sci abilities.
TBR2: See Above.
Tykens Rift2: See Above.
Grav Well 1: See Above.
Feedback Pulse 1, 2 or 3. It puts TSS on shared cool down. This is Very Bad. For reason, see VM1.
Scramble 2: just became even more of a farce than it already was. Reason, see above.
Transfer Shield strength 2 on sci ships. It's resistance is woefully inadequate without at least an ES1 to help it out somewhere during Focus periods.
Hazard Emitters 3: This ability now has to directly compete against the only shield resistance power in the game even semi capable of standing up to DPS. It's Done. By the way Jman, sci captains train HE3.
So you just kicked sci in the crotch AGAIN.
"Oh but mav hull tanking just became more important!" No no it didn't. Hull tanking is no more viable now than it was before and it's still Woefully inadequate in Real Pvp. This means the following abilities did NOT improve.
Polarize Hull 2 or 3.
APD1, 2 or 3.
ASIF1, 2 or 3.
AUX ID.
You can also add the Borg Shield Heal Proc, and Hull proc both to the Freakin Useless pile. As they do not apply resists of any sort. Too easy to just burn someone down right on through em without ES's resist.
Post edited by ghostyandfrosty on
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And in the Eng department? Your little buff to Aceton field, means nothing. Cruisers Suck At Turning.
Let me repeat that so maybe even you can grasp the concept.
Cruisers Suck At Turning, and Sci Ships Still Suck.
You have completely gutted Cruisers healing capabilities, and sci ship healing is not even remotely up to the task of keeping people alive in pvp. CC is no longer important to overcome SDR, healing or anything. You just turned pvp into a highlight reel of Top Gun.
P.S.: Eng cruisers are totally viable still
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
I'm moving MWO into Primary Stable game for me now thanks to this horrible set of changes. STO is going to be moved from Secondary to Sub Tertiary status. I have X Com, Endless Space, Forza 4 (and soon Forza Horizon), Mechwarrior and soon Guild Wars 2 to play. Games with Bargain Bin Development competence just aren't going to measure up. No matter how much I may love this community.
Viable my TRIBBLE. You better just put your eng in a Scort, so you can at least have fun playing a shoddy imitation of Top Gun or Ace Combat.
Bravo! Well said!
Every one focus on the ETS, ES and RSP issue (witch is important), but there is also de fact that the "sci fix" is also a disaster!
Really good post!
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
i loved the old nintendo top gun second mission game!
id smoke my dad time and time again in the player vrs player match!
Thank you for your posts man, this game is losing all variety more and more, we had 2 classes and 1 dead, now we have 1 class and 2 dead.
I personally believe that they are not putting any real effort whatsoever to balance this things or to add variety in powers, builds, combinations, etc.
The are just using the Star Trek franchise for cheap money grabbing and this sadly will continue as long as we have people willing to pay 1 LTS just to get the "free" ships... or people buying 400 keys to get 1 ship.
Cryptic / PWE will keep putting their efforts into creating more and more "shinny things" to money givers and will put less and less attention to the ones who wants a little piece of balance and justice.
Anyway, thank you again for your post.
www.divisionhispana.com
While one can definitely look at it that way - one cannot help, surely, to step back and notice that if everybody is complaining about the same thing - and thus wonder - how much variety there actually was...
...of course, it won't actually fix anything. It will just shift things from one set of cookie cutter builds to the next set of cookie cutter builds.
People will adapt - it will become DO THIS OR GTFO again.
Some actual variety would be interesting - but that's not the thing for the latest generation or the general masses. So it is what it is; which is something that is more fun if it is not taken so seriously.
That being said - respec tokens would be hellanifty for changes such as these...meh.
Builds were hardly cookie cutter for cruisers. I think a quick look at my table of contents in the cruiser thread would have proven that.
Sci had gotten to be a one trick pony sorta.
But now in the cases of both ships you might as well just fly a shuttle.
Welcome everyone, Finally to Escorts Online.
I kinda agree with you but my point is that, I would like to be able to fly ANY of the current ships with no less than 3 or 4 different useful builds in PvP.
For example, in the past, we used to have Controller Sci, Healing Sci, Shield Draining Sci and Power Draining Sci (I may be forgetting some other builds) now we have Dead Sci.
Even Escorts, have been reduced in variety, since most PvPers now use the ******n Jemhadar OP ship, if not able to buy that, then use the Patrol, which has similar BOFF layout.
Cruisers? We have beautiful ships to use, but all of them useless, Gal-X, Gal-R, Free Sovy, even the paid Sovy and the Excelsior you dont see anymore... Oddys and thats pretty much all.
We used to have variety, at least at some point, now well...
And I want this for PvP just because:
1) shooting NPCs is boring or frustrating (due to cheating added to make it more "challenging")
2) play against another human is REALLY challenging and far more rewarding and entertaining (and yes, I had my TRIBBLE handed to me many many times)
www.divisionhispana.com
You're finaly "getten it", aren't you Mav?
I can't even believe this. Who in their right mind even thought that crusiers were OP? Who even asked for this or even thought of asking for this? Cryptic couldn't care less and I'm now finaly there myself now. I believe I'm with you, Rift is adding housing in their next expansion, I've never tried it, and Cryptic/PWE just made the decision a lot easier.
I'm sick and tired of Cryptic's version of NERF Wars, their NGE type of development, and F2P P2W games in general. They can have it.
Yep, playing against other players is more entertaining and challenging - even with something as simple as is he going to turn left or right. Mobs always do the same thing - it's like playing NASCAR...meh.
I've seen more ADR and tractor spam since the patch, though - people popping like crazy...meh.
I might roll another alt while this is sorted out...
More like 1500 shields. Who doesn't spec in PI. I can get by a full team waving CPB3s and tachyon beam3s, and still have plenty of shields to endure their wrath afterwards. I suggest you watch my CPB vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmuBCOnz8WI
If you can't see why that is a TRIBBLE Power. You need help.
dont forget to boost thoes stats. its much easier now to spec with flow cap and grab mk12 consoles that boost flow. also elite deflectors at fleet base are just made for sci
See above. The problem is PI is a Flat Out Mitigation skill, not an Opposed skill. You can rank up till you're blue in the face, I'm still going to ignore more than 50 percent of it. (by the way it still functioning at like 75 percent resistance vs CBP and Tachyon)
Get over it, and adapt your tactics.
Adapt what. Chump.
We > you. Always will be.
Healing is now dead. CC is pointless, and now neutered.
Fly Escort or don't play.
Lemme guess daddy let you come onto the forums before you went to school. Or your idea of pvp, is that funny feeling you get when you see someone else in your closed instance.
humm...has something changed? my fleet mate is speced 6 points into it and i took off 3k of his sheilds with cpb3. are the last 3 points in insulators really needed?
Watch the video.
Also flow cap isn't CPBs booster. Particle Generators is. Tachyon Beam works off of flow cap.
haha yeah stealth patches are awesome. check the skill tree again buddy. it used to be particle gens till a guy in opvp chat asked why the consoles did not boost it. then we noticed its flow caps. thats why i bought a mk12 flow console for 2.2 mill. you will see alot of them got relisted.
Unless they dramatically changed it, from a couple weeks ago when I ate a full teams CPB3s it's still a TRIBBLE skill :P
Thing is there's no real point in running it now anyway, thanks to the extend change.
MWO is pretty cool, but I am worried that the devs also don't understand math or balance.
But X-Com looks interesting,e ven though I never played the previous titles. And I am personally also interested in Max Payne 3...
And regarding STO, I really hace to get up to speed - what's nerfed about the EPtS now?
Actually MWO is fairly well balanced. The biggest issue over there really is the gauss rifle. Everything else has been massaged to a very well running state. AC5s, and 2s are finally viable. They fixed the LBX10 (thank christ) so now it's viable. Large Lasers no longer just throw down heat for next to no payoff. Also, like STO I learned SO MUCH after going Premade and Pugmade. I almost never pure pug anymore over there. Though when I do pug, I am enjoying the game more, than I have enjoyed STO for almost two years now.
In four days or so I'll have my copy of X Com. I'm eagerly awaiting it.
They killed Extend Shields, and with it, Cruisers and sci ships. Read my first post. They put Extend shields and RSP on a Shared Cool Down with EPTS. A Fifteen Second Shared.
How long is the global cooldown between EPtS and RSP?
I had the following BOFF skills on my Tactical Escort Retrofit (tactical captain):
1) Lt. Eng: EPtS1, RSP1
2) Lt. Sci: HE1, TSS2
What should I be using now then? I tried EPtS1 and 2, but I still felt squishy. I also tried EPtS1 and Aux2SIF1, but I didn't care for that either.
I was going to remove my remaining Hazard Engineer DOFF and put in a 2nd subnuke DOFF, but now I'm thinking I'm going to keep it.
15 Seconds.
I will have much to consider, now that I can't use RSP as an emergency button at anytime I want.
Used FaW as much as possible to draw agro my way and to be truthfull, my shields almost never dropped. Last night, I would of needed RSP at least twice. Today, not at all. I was running EPTS 1 and 2, and TSS 2 in concert. The borg shield proc never went off (looked for that 1 also). It seems to me that there was a silent "fix" to shield resists. (I'm hoping the same thing happened for hull resists as well as I figured these were either not working or not working correctly. There was a fix as well for some of the engine lag in the 20 man but the large test will be tonight when the servers are a bit more loaded.
I haven't tested this in PVP as yet, but I will tonight against Cypher's bug and let you know the outcome.
endless space is a great game though, glad to see you pick up that little gem. although, i still rock out a large CivV map a month.
either way, sucks that trek will now take a back seat for you. your contributions to our community will have a long lasting impact.
have fun kill bad guys
(but you will be back in full force soon)
(its trek)