This reminds me of the revelation that there are tier modifiers in play that they don't want to tell us about. And the other threads that showed that they're not all that sure about how they work. And the other threads where they finally figure out that the "hidden tier modifier" is interacting with things (FBP) in ways they didn't expect.
this is exactly what i was thinking of when i assumed there was a curved modifier instead of flat boost. when i get time i'll get the characters on tribble, strip all the skill points, and see if that makes whats happening more clear.
just thought i would post about this, my testing has definitely effected my shield choice, at least on the kdf side. i think this is a good indication that the fleet bops will have a much nicer total shield capacity then it has listed at the very least, and all those somraws, sabers, novas, etc... are more then viable ships for use. i would DEFINITELY chose a fleet saber over a fleet patrol now, provided its maco hitpoints are higher. the 'apparent' shield mod on my mkXI maco fleet heavy cruiser is 1.10595, when .94 is its listed.
this is why this information is important, and why i choose to provide it, with it who would opt for a fleet patrol over a fleet saber?
Im now running a tac saber for almost a month. In fact I did compare it with the patrol escort when I bought the saber. I found back the piece of paper where i wrote it down. Both ships were equiped with the same gear, but i dont remember which ones. Since i dont have the fleet patrol escort, I just use the standard patrol escort stats, and add 10% to it, as mentioned for fleet ships.
Thus coming back to drunks quote:
In my opinion it is better than the patrol. Although shields and hull are slightly less, the turn rate and inertia are higher. I made a build based on speed and defense (unbuffed defense score at max throttle = 87.7%) which really fits this little ship. Its defenitly my choice, even over the less resilient fleet defiant.
Now, if we would have a new escort thread, I would happily post my build
this is exactly what i was thinking of when i assumed there was a curved modifier instead of flat boost. when i get time i'll get the characters on tribble, strip all the skill points, and see if that makes whats happening more clear.
There is a curved mod, I was able to calculate it out and graph it in excel using the data in your OP. I could try to explain it now, but it will be easier when I can upload and show you guys the graph. Please do test without skill points though, best to rule out any other non-anticipated effects.
Im now running a tac saber for almost a month. In fact I did compare it with the patrol escort when I bought the saber. I found back the piece of paper where i wrote it down. Both ships were equiped with the same gear, but i dont remember which ones. Since i dont have the fleet patrol escort, I just use the standard patrol escort stats, and add 10% to it, as mentioned for fleet ships.
Thus coming back to drunks quote:
In my opinion it is better than the patrol. Although shields and hull are slightly less, the turn rate and inertia are higher. I made a build based on speed and defense (unbuffed defense score at max throttle = 87.7%) which really fits this little ship. Its defenitly my choice, even over the less resilient fleet defiant.
Now, if we would have a new escort thread, I would happily post my build
is that with the maco? i figured it would be close. the saber might even have more hitpoints with the omega and borg equipped.
There is a curved mod, I was able to calculate it out and graph it in excel using the data in your OP. I could try to explain it now, but it will be easier when I can upload and show you guys the graph. Please do test without skill points though, best to rule out any other non-anticipated effects.
if i can get the ui facing hp and the tool tip hp to match on like the normal vorcha r, and i then jump in the ktinga and figure what it should be with the .94 mod, and assume the difference is ether the extra flat or curve. if its flat, and based off the .94 shield mod, the ships should have an exact extra hitpoints with every type of shield. that would make the lower capacity shields look better in theory, making it look curved. having the somraw too will help nail this down
but if the extra is different between shields, there is a modifier and it is curved
Another thing you need to do is test your shields all at the same mark. Just realized that you are mixing and matching marks, and that could be throwing the results way off.
Another thing you need to do is test your shields all at the same mark. Just realized that you are mixing and matching marks, and that could be throwing the results way off.
its the same character that has the fleet ktinga and somraw retrofit, so between those 2 ships they will be working with the exact same equipment. i should have my old mkXI KHG shield in the bank, don't think i trashed it in case i ever wanted to do a 2 or 3 pieces KHG set. i proboly should use that just so the omega and KHG are at the same mk. regardless of the shield, the mk might in some way effect the bonus hitpoints distributed or something.
It would be better if you kept it as simple as possible. Test on a mk x common regular shield, a mk x common covariant, and a mk x common regenerative.
It would be better if you kept it as simple as possible. Test on a mk x common regular shield, a mk x common covariant, and a mk x common regenerative.
your right, i'll do that
*edit
and the tribble log in server wont respond, great. i am NOT blowing 2 respecs for this im afraid
back from tribble, have clear results, i just cant make sense of them
if you remove all the skill points from the tier 2 shield skill, and have no deflectors or consoles equipped buffing that skill or anything, your tool tip and facing hp will match on non tier 2/3 fleet ships.
no mater what shield my ktinga and somraw had equipped, they had a flat extra hitpoints. the ktinga had +1375, and the somraw had +1563. i have no idea how to interpret this. didnt mater if i used borg, omega, KHG mkX cov, mkX res, it all gave the exact same extra per shield.
faceing-tooltip=extra
khg
omega
borg
ktinga
9379-8004=1375
7295-5920=1375
6325-4950=1375
somraw
7145-5582=1563
5681-4119=1562
5000-3437=1563
all i can take away from this is that the lower the listed shield mod is, the better the extra is. somraw had .65, ktinga .94.
whatever, their design don't make no sense, case closed.
back from tribble, have clear results, i just cant make sense of them
if you remove all the skill points from the tier 2 shield skill, and have no deflectors or consoles equipped buffing that skill or anything, your tool tip and facing hp will match on non tier 2/3 fleet ships.
no mater what shield my ktinga and somraw had equipped, they had a flat extra hitpoints. the ktinga had +1375, and the somraw had +1563. i have no idea how to interpret this. didnt mater if i used borg, omega, KHG mkX cov, mkX res, it all gave the exact same extra per shield.
faceing-tooltip=extra
khg
omega
borg
ktinga
9379-8004=1375
7295-5920=1375
6325-4950=1375
somraw
7145-5582=1563
5681-4119=1562
5000-3437=1563
all i can take away from this is that the lower the listed shield mod is, the better the extra is. somraw had .65, ktinga .94.
whatever, their design don't make no sense, case closed.
As I said before, flat bonus. Rounding errors are why the other amounts from your previous tests had a minor (% wise) difference.
is that with the maco? i figured it would be close. the saber might even have more hitpoints with the omega and borg equipped.
I think I used the aegis set. This because it is easily available for everyone, and has only 1 mk level. This to prevent future differences between the measurements.
Anybody willing to start a list of the arbitrary shield HP being added to these Fleet ships?
Might be interesting to post on the wiki, for example.
Btw, if I got it right: Those fleet ships have the mod advertised, and all different mods from skills are applied normally. But, in the end, this fixed number is added to the shields. At least this formula seems to work on the posted examples.
So if you post real shield facing value, shield value written on the shield tooltip and your shield skill system (while having no other shield affecting consoles, deflectors), you can easily calculate those Hp added.
"written shield HP * shield system modifier + X =real shield HP", where shield system modifier is 1,3 for 99 skill (and I assume 1,1 for 33 skill and so on).
Please post these 3 numbers if you got a (fleet) ship retrofit.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Just would like to add, that while the fleet versions of low tier ships do indeed get shield hps bonus, the native shield regen is cut according their shield modifier.
For example I have fleet nova and fleet nebula. I tested them in same setup with borg gear. The nova got a little higher borg shield hps, but the maximum natural shield regen was around 1400. The Nebula's around 2000.
So while it's true the capacity is higher on low cap shield, the potential for extra shield healing regen is greatly reduced.
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Comments
this is exactly what i was thinking of when i assumed there was a curved modifier instead of flat boost. when i get time i'll get the characters on tribble, strip all the skill points, and see if that makes whats happening more clear.
Im now running a tac saber for almost a month. In fact I did compare it with the patrol escort when I bought the saber. I found back the piece of paper where i wrote it down. Both ships were equiped with the same gear, but i dont remember which ones. Since i dont have the fleet patrol escort, I just use the standard patrol escort stats, and add 10% to it, as mentioned for fleet ships.
This is what I wrote down:
_________Saber___patrol___fleet patrol (+10%)
Shields___9117____8401____9241___________
hull______38089___38892___42781__________
Thus coming back to drunks quote:
In my opinion it is better than the patrol. Although shields and hull are slightly less, the turn rate and inertia are higher. I made a build based on speed and defense (unbuffed defense score at max throttle = 87.7%) which really fits this little ship. Its defenitly my choice, even over the less resilient fleet defiant.
Now, if we would have a new escort thread, I would happily post my build
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
There is a curved mod, I was able to calculate it out and graph it in excel using the data in your OP. I could try to explain it now, but it will be easier when I can upload and show you guys the graph. Please do test without skill points though, best to rule out any other non-anticipated effects.
is that with the maco? i figured it would be close. the saber might even have more hitpoints with the omega and borg equipped.
if i can get the ui facing hp and the tool tip hp to match on like the normal vorcha r, and i then jump in the ktinga and figure what it should be with the .94 mod, and assume the difference is ether the extra flat or curve. if its flat, and based off the .94 shield mod, the ships should have an exact extra hitpoints with every type of shield. that would make the lower capacity shields look better in theory, making it look curved. having the somraw too will help nail this down
but if the extra is different between shields, there is a modifier and it is curved
The modifier is approximately:
Bonus shield points = 500 * base shields^0.12
Where base shields is the tool-tip value
We'll see how things stack up when you've tested without any skill points into shield capacity.
its the same character that has the fleet ktinga and somraw retrofit, so between those 2 ships they will be working with the exact same equipment. i should have my old mkXI KHG shield in the bank, don't think i trashed it in case i ever wanted to do a 2 or 3 pieces KHG set. i proboly should use that just so the omega and KHG are at the same mk. regardless of the shield, the mk might in some way effect the bonus hitpoints distributed or something.
your right, i'll do that
*edit
and the tribble log in server wont respond, great. i am NOT blowing 2 respecs for this im afraid
if you remove all the skill points from the tier 2 shield skill, and have no deflectors or consoles equipped buffing that skill or anything, your tool tip and facing hp will match on non tier 2/3 fleet ships.
no mater what shield my ktinga and somraw had equipped, they had a flat extra hitpoints. the ktinga had +1375, and the somraw had +1563. i have no idea how to interpret this. didnt mater if i used borg, omega, KHG mkX cov, mkX res, it all gave the exact same extra per shield.
faceing-tooltip=extra
khg
omega
borg
ktinga
9379-8004=1375
7295-5920=1375
6325-4950=1375
somraw
7145-5582=1563
5681-4119=1562
5000-3437=1563
all i can take away from this is that the lower the listed shield mod is, the better the extra is. somraw had .65, ktinga .94.
whatever, their design don't make no sense, case closed.
As I said before, flat bonus. Rounding errors are why the other amounts from your previous tests had a minor (% wise) difference.
I think I used the aegis set. This because it is easily available for everyone, and has only 1 mk level. This to prevent future differences between the measurements.
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Might be interesting to post on the wiki, for example.
Btw, if I got it right: Those fleet ships have the mod advertised, and all different mods from skills are applied normally. But, in the end, this fixed number is added to the shields. At least this formula seems to work on the posted examples.
So if you post real shield facing value, shield value written on the shield tooltip and your shield skill system (while having no other shield affecting consoles, deflectors), you can easily calculate those Hp added.
"written shield HP * shield system modifier + X =real shield HP", where shield system modifier is 1,3 for 99 skill (and I assume 1,1 for 33 skill and so on).
Please post these 3 numbers if you got a (fleet) ship retrofit.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
For example I have fleet nova and fleet nebula. I tested them in same setup with borg gear. The nova got a little higher borg shield hps, but the maximum natural shield regen was around 1400. The Nebula's around 2000.
So while it's true the capacity is higher on low cap shield, the potential for extra shield healing regen is greatly reduced.