The "no damage" wells

ertihan

So, I've pretty much given up on DPS for my science captain. I mean, sure I can spec like a tactical and fly an escort but I will never out-damage a tactical captain in this capacity. Too often I've 1v1'ed a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and lost because while I have a subnuke, I just didn't have the DPS to break his tank.

So I decided to go the entire opposite direction. I present: the no-damage Wells!

Here's my concept (please let me know if it's sound). You'd equip this wells with the three piece Lobi Store set (i.e. the dual beam bank, the torpedo, and the console). If you're feeling like cheese, you might also hand it either Theta Vent, or Graviton Pulse Generator.

The way it works is, this particular ship is intended to drop lots of chroniton mines everywhere, thanks to its dispersal pattern. They do little-to-no damage thanks to no points in anything damage-related, but at least their proc is still valuable. Same with the phaser beams. Just there for target subsystems and the random phaser proc.

ALL of this vessel's utility comes from its skills, and I tried to choose ones that complement one another. The ship, then, is intended to push a target far into the outer reaches, and keep it there for a good long while.

I was waffling on what kind of target subsystem 3 I wanted though. I landed on Auxiliary because I figured that has the additional bonus of preventing you from using hazards and the like to remove my debuffs, but Target Engines could work as well...

dontdrunkimshoot

accepting that its not a lone sci's job to deal damage is the first step in getting better. you have to keep fighting the score board cravings!

beary666sto

I'd say, Drop TRBIII and bump VM1 up to VMIII with system doffs. Throw in a Sci Team III and then double up on Tractor Beam 1. Also replace RSP with extend shields I.

Wells come's with BTSS, and maybe that LtC Tac could be replaced with a Torp Spread and Chronitor Torps or plasma torps.

Or you could swap the Lt Eng and LtC Tac.

So grab TT and MDPB (or torp spread) for Lt. Tac

For LtC Eng, EPTS1, Aux2Sif1, Extend 2.

webdeath

Personally, I'd recommend putting points into Starship Targeting system. To help with hitting extremely nimble targets that are running around your mines like cats chasing a fast mouse.

I'd also put points into Insulators. Because last thing you want is an Energy Siphon or Tyken's Rift to actually do their jobs and drain power from you.

Other then that, sure I guess it could work. Not sure on Target Sub Aux 3, but hey might be worth it. Since you could cycle it with Target Sub aux 1 that the ship gets innately.

hurleybird

Actually, it is the sci ship's job to deal DPS. Anyone who isn't doing good damage is holding back their team. What isn't your job is to destroy other ships on your own.

I do very decent DPS in my wells, even though I'm mostly focused on keeping people alive and setting up kills for escorts.

naldoran

hurleybird wrote: »

Actually, it is the sci ship's job to deal DPS. Anyone who isn't doing good damage is holding back their team. What isn't your job is to destroy other ships on your own.

I do very decent DPS in my wells, even though I'm mostly focused on keeping people alive and setting up kills for escorts.

Uh, Jorf, have you seen the DPS numbers the recluse carriers some of us have been flying put out? Sometimes you don't have to deal damage. :P

70k damage / 5.6m heals ftw!

hurleybird

I get where they are coming from, but I disagree with that philosophy. A small sacrifice in healing can often lead to a larger gain in damage output.

You can do a metric ton of healing and good damage if you set yourself up right.

Science vessels need to do everything. Damage, healing, crowd control. It's the multitasking class.

That being said, damage is generally more meaningful than healing. How many times have you seen a team win despite having half the damage numbers of the other side at the end of a match? I haven't. How many times have you seen the team with twice the healing numbers at the end of a match lose? More times than I can count on both hands! It's certainly possible to have too much damage output and not enough healing, the trick is finding that sweet spot.

hanover

I fly Defiant, even with my SCI admiral. My second favorite thing to do with my SCI guy is spam space combat with photonic fleet, scorpion fighters, and then fleet support. Not terribly useful in PvP, and not a big source of offensive damage, but it keeps the hostile ships somewhat distracted.

**The first favorite thing is [-]casting immmolate[/-] using that exothermic induction field and radiation burn from the Physicist Kit to flame broil the bad guys.

thishorizon

listen to jorf.

brandonfl

thishorizon wrote: »

listen to jorf.

Usually a good bet

Seriously, I don't even think about the scoreboard when I'm using my sci toons (99% of the time). Transphasics, recently, have given me the ability to lay down good, sustained DPS. Before that I would load up on Quantums to add extra punch to what my escort buddies were doing. Getting the kill shouldn't be your main concern, but helping that kill occur should be.

hurleybird

Oh, I guess I should have mentioned to look at Jorfeddie in that screenshot. Sometimes I forget that people who stray in to these forums from time to time probably don't know my character names :P

If you're wondering, that match was a partial SP (three SP and two pugs -- we got lucky that we got good pugs!) vs. a partial TSI (three TSI teamed up with one Nova Core, plus a decent pug). It was my second match in the Wells (first match I forgot to take off the stock shields, d'oh), I died because I tried to use the backstep console like a miracle worker. In truth you need to use it like you would ablative. If you use backstep moments before you're going to die, you will still die, get resurrected with a sliver of health, and most likely you'll immediately die again.

hurleybird

If it helps anyone, my wells build is as follows:

Tac:

TS 1, TS 2

Eng:

EPtS 1
EPtS 1, ES 1, Aux2SIF 2

sci:

TB 1, HE 2
TB 1, TSS 2, ST 3, VM 3

Substitute whatever weapons you want, but use three torpedoes up front always.

Use 4x shield healing consoles in your science slots.

Use whatever doffs you want, but be sure to take two science team doffs. Use at least one projectile weapons officer.

Swap out VM for GW if you want for PvE. You could also lower the TSS and HE to level one and take two copies of TBR 1 instead of TR 1.

Run 100 aux, 50 shields, 25 weapons and engines.

naz4

hurleybird wrote: »

If it helps anyone, my wells build is as follows:

Tac:

TS:-) 1, TS 2

Eng:

EPtS 1
EPtS 1, ES 1, Aux2SIF 2

sci:

TB 1, HE 2
TB 1, TSS 2, ST 3, VM 3

Substitute whatever weapons you want, but use three torpedoes up front always.

Use 4x shield healing consoles in your science slots.

Use whatever doffs you want, but be sure to take two science team doffs. Use at least one projectile weapons officer.

Swap out VM for GW if you want for PvE. You could also lower the TSS and HE to level one and take two copies of TBR 1 instead of TR 1.

Run 100 aux, 50 shields, 25 weapons and engines.

Or you can go out the full dps offensive sci sci build.... Striptease come to mind? :-) .

hurleybird

I think that gearing a sci towards offensive crowd control power makes sense nowadays, but only after you've passed a certain threshold in terms of healing and damage. In a lot of SP teams we pass both thresholds quite easily and an offensive sci is warranted. Even then, you only have a handful of viable skills to work with, the strongest probably being doff boosted (not regular) Tyken's.

So yeah, I think that an offensive sci still has a place, albiet a limited one, and only in premade teams. If you're pugging then you'll get more mileage out of buffing your healing capability. Fortunately, it can be as simple as swapping science consoles to go back and forth between each role.

Edit: Oh, misread your post, thought you were talking about offensive sci debuffs. And yes, your dps sci build is glorious, but I'll leave it up to you if you want to spill the beans on the forums

naz4

hurleybird wrote: »

I think that gearing a sci towards offensive crowd control power makes sense nowadays, but only after you've passed a certain threshold in terms of healing and damage. In a lot of SP teams we pass both thresholds quite easily and an offensive sci is warranted. Even then, you only have a handful of viable skills to work with, the strongest probably being doff boosted (not regular) Tyken's.

So yeah, I think that an offensive sci still has a place, albiet a limited one, and only in premade teams. If you're pugging then you'll get more mileage out of buffing your healing capability. Fortunately, it can be as simple as swapping science consoles to go back and forth between each role.

Edit: Oh, misread your post, thought you were talking about offensive sci debuffs. And yes, your dps sci build is glorious, but I'll leave it up to you if you want to spill the beans on the forums

Leave it as the panda edge for now before we need a treaty / accord for it