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Are cruisers completly useless in PvP?
n1shoba
Member Posts: 1 Arc User
I hit lvl 50 VA 10 days ago and did a bunch of PvP since then. My ship does zero damage and I die in 5-10 seconds if I get focoused. I'm flying Star Cruiser and my gear is mostly XII/XI very rare with some XI blue rare items.
I'm really not sure what could be the problem since I did quite a bit of research on the optimal skill build/BoFFs/traits and items.
I realize Cruisers are not meant to deal damage but I can't even tank so I'm pretty much useless when it comes to PvP.
I'm really not sure what could be the problem since I did quite a bit of research on the optimal skill build/BoFFs/traits and items.
I realize Cruisers are not meant to deal damage but I can't even tank so I'm pretty much useless when it comes to PvP.
Post edited by n1shoba on
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There are pros that play PvP for long time, they will nuke you with top gear still. You got to research optimal equipment/skills set for you and get some exp.
Edit: Wanted to add that you can join OrganizedPvP and Sad Panda Cubs channels, there you can find people who know PvP well and they can share their experience.
Chat Settings->Channels-> type their name and press Join.
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
PvP is so grossly broken and unbalanced that, unless you're in an escort, the most you're going to be able to do is tank for a while until you finally get blown up. It's so bad that two cruisers can pound away at each other endlessly and never kill each other. Who designs a game like that?
I run 3 piece borg set, and maco 12 shields. I run tact team doffs, brace for impact shield regen doffs, and a warp core engineer. 2 copies of epta1 and 2 epts2 keep my aug to stf3 and extend shields 2 strong.
Damage is all about opportunity. 8 beams + nadi inversion at the right time can be devastating.
And lastly, and most importantly, I never pug!
Crusiers used to be able to compete and do a great job of it. But since then, shear DPS has been added to while healing/tanking was severaly cut via the skill box revamps and or patches. Any1 remember the NERF to RSP? That was a big one that cut crusiers to the quick. RSP used to be a "oh-chit" button, but post-NERF, it also, can be DPS powered thru like it wasn't even there. I used to, in that excel, make it thru most of the focused spikes via all except some of the best groups, hurt but not out of it, via tanking/healing. Groups then got off of me and went for the easier kills as it took work to take my ship out. "Not anymore, man". Now, it's target the crusiers 1st as they are the "easy kill".
Way back when, I used to be able to do about 800K damage in the typ match, with a 6 beam-boat excel with a tac flying it. Now, it's around 200K post NERFs to beams with ACC et al. And then what I lacked in spike DPS against the escorts, the ship more than made up for in healing and constant damage pressure. Now, the equation is so skewed in favor of P2W escorts it's almost funny.
The "pay-to-live" Oddy is about the only way to survive and quasi-tank in this game now with all the P2W consoles, ships, DPS adds, etc. If a player actualy wants to fly the Star Trek "Iconic" ships then a healer build (with basicly no DPS), and then only 1 of those ships, is about the only way to go. And then, the community with very good reasoning, will limit only ONE (1) of these ships per group. If they didn't, they would be, in effect, gimping their own group via DPS and DPS is certainly king now in PVP and more and more, PVE content. All done, via Cryptic development.
This is the major reasoning for my leaving PVP gameplay alone now. And I also have that P2W fleet "Patrol" escort. It's just not much fun for me to simply watch things melt in about 2-3 secs.
Most everyone dies in 5-10 seconds if they are focused on.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
We queue up' then they destroy us in seconds. Why the hell would we queue up again once we discovered they have totally maxed out ships.
aka tac/escorts that tank better then cruiser thanks to shield dist being in tac team instead of eng team where it should be.
Do yourselves a favor and disregard PvP unless you are one of the pay to win people perfect wants.
R.I.P
It's a fun ship to fly and has the capacity for some fun heal-control hybrid builds.
Yeah, that's unfortunate. It's really hard to overcome 2+ years of practical experience in one game. You need to really get used to getting thrashed and put a lot of thought and study into the game to get better.
I had little issues getting used to playing, because I've been a PvPer since I've been in my teens in various games. But it can get ridiculous now with all of the lame spam from both factions. I can respect how someone may not want to deal with that in a PuG setting.
I would hope you would go to the PvP subforums and ask for advice on how to make a proper build and get some tactical advice.
There's a crapton of great info there.
And maybe even /channel_join OrganizedPVP as well.
Edit:
And check my siglink too.
You say that your build is great, but you don't post it. My guess is that it's fine for most pve, but probably not built for pvp. Pvp is a specialized beastie. It takes some good doffs, a few key pieces like the borg set and a maco shield to become even mediocre. To be good you have to work as a team.
You didn't die in seconds to single person. You died to a well set up team. That means it was 5 v 1. The way to combat that is to play with a team, as a team. This is quite different from anything else in game. Will you lose a lot, especially as you learn how to play? Yes. Will some of the best pvpers in STO happily help you with your build, and maybe help you find people to fly with you to teach you how to get better? Yes. Join OPVP and the Sad Panda Cubs channel. Lots of people who are happy to help you. You just have to set your ego aside and understand that there might be more out there to learn.
Nixus
Thinking you can be awesome at pvp 10 days after reaching level 50 in a game that does a terribad effort of actually teaching it's players how to play is silly.
No, cruisers are not useless in pvp. You're just doing it wrong.
This seems like an odd statement to make considering what I've witnessed in very nearly every PvP match I've ever been over the last two years - escorts ripping everything apart in 2 - 3 seconds, taking zero damage even while having three ships focus fire on them, all while the cruisers burned endlessly in space, scoring no kills.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the Fleet Vor'cha is the best Escort (or even the best ship) in the whole game.
Properly flown Cruisers can be invaluable. Their burst heals can be the difference between life or death, Extend Shields can turn even the squishiest nub into a God, and the amount of pressure their weapons can put on is nothing to shrug off.
Keywords being "properly flown."
So... are we just supposed to purposely gimp ourselves so that you can have a fun time?
It wouldn't be so bad if cruisers actually had some effective CC abilities, like a space version of a stun lock, or ways to negate an enemy's outgoing damage more effectively.
Needless to say, these things is something I long argued regarding PvP balance and was ignored. And honestly, I think PvP is too broken to be fixed and Cryptic really should just get rid of STO PVP, unless they truly want to start over from scratch and address things easier for non-Hardcore players, and doing things like getting rid of special ability consoles and keeping things simple in the game.
How about giving cruisers actual DPS output, so they don't stand around like a bunch of toothless tigers scoring no kills?
Hardly.
Cruisers have the ability to pump out crazy amounts of power and power regen, meaning they can easily use 6+ Beams. Add DEM onto that, and it's quite potent.
Ever see a Cruiser with a full Cannon/Turret load out and DEM 3?
LOL, cannons on a cruiser. Sure, you go ahead and do that, and I'll sit outside your cannon arc while you flail about like a beached whale trying to get me back inside that tiny window of effective firepower.
This is a common symptom of the generally atrocious skill level of the majority of sto's playerbase.
Of course a newb will be ripped toshreads by an experienced escort pilot, because the newb doesn't know wtf he is doing, whereas the escort does.
Put the same escort against a cruiser that knows what he's about, the cruiser will not die 1v1.
I'm just guessing here, mind you, but I suspect he meant cannons not "dual" or "dual heavy" cannons. Cannons, while not as powerful as "dual" cannons, have a 180 degree firing arc. Turrets have 360 degree arc. Not that difficult, especially in a Vor'Cha, an Excelsior or even a Negh'Var with RCS console, to keep anything short of a BOP in the firing arc long enough to so some damage. Add torps on the aft and it's a pretty potent combo.
Nor will it kill it. The cruiser will be forced to go on an endless healing spree, futilely blasting away while the escort zips around it staying at 99% - 100% hull and shield strength the entire time. Does that sound like fun PvP to you?
PvP should not consist of spamming heals on yourself while shooting rubber bullets at everyone else.
This is a critical role, you won't do damage but you're not in queuing for that right? No good cruiser can mean the game is lost. I ofteh end with 1M+ healing score in some matches with my eng on his cruiser, when the team know how to play the game.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
You need non-kill objectives in PvP.
Are we talking dueling or more capture the flag type stuff. Killing is not everything and if it is, the match is poorly designed.
Said as an escort captain who doesn't like STO PvP all that much.
If one is going to die, it will be the escort. He likely only has a couple of heals on a lengthy cycle, so with intelligent timing and use of powers, the cruiser will eventually burn through the escorts heals and force a rertreat.
The cruiser is eng heavy, it carries alot of heals because that's what it's for. They can be very tanky and can already throw out signifigant dps.
You want a godship, but this is pvp, there is no plot armour. Ships have roles within teams (working with other people, shocker I know).
If you don't ind playing a cruiser fun, I suggest trying something else.
It's not only about killing, it's also about healing. Most people tend to ignore the second score in the game, and it's the worst mistake someone joining a pvp queue can do.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.