So are AP weapons now "out"?

fenrir136

Hey returning player and i had a question about Anti-Proton weapons.

When I was last playing they seemed to be very popular with high end groups and now I hardly ever see anyone using them. Have they been given a significant nerf or is the removal of Weapon types on the Skill Menu "elevated" other weapon types?

adamkafei

I think it might just be that people want procs rather than extra crit chance/damage after-all, as we all know; blowing a ship up is fun... messing with it is more fun

cidstorm

I once heard there are no ACCx3 AP weapons, that might be partly responsible? I feel like they make a great cruiser weapon since they help against shields and hull.

shookyang

fenrir136 wrote: »

Hey returning player and i had a question about Anti-Proton weapons.

When I was last playing they seemed to be very popular with high end groups and now I hardly ever see anyone using them. Have they been given a significant nerf or is the removal of Weapon types on the Skill Menu "elevated" other weapon types?

Antiproton is still viable if you can't afford better. If you want pure damage, it's still ideal. A lot of people still use them.

The problem, is that the best Antiprotons that I could get my hands on were Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons MK XI [critd]x2 [dmg], which is a 70% bonus to critical severity.

I have Phaser Dual Heavy Cannons MK XII [critd]x3, which also has a 70% bonus to critical severity, does more DPS, and has the phaser proc.

Given that there are several energy weapon types other than AP that have the same critical severity but come in higher MKs, you'd probably be better off going with a different energy type.

If you can't afford new gear, I'd say stick with the APs until you feel like switching to something better. Maybe someday they will make MK XII or one with [critd]x3, and then it would be worth it to switch back (assuming they aren't ridiculously expensive).

fenrir136

shookyang wrote: »

Antiproton is still viable if you can't afford better. If you want pure damage, it's still ideal. A lot of people still use them.

The problem, is that the best Antiprotons that I could get my hands on were Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons MK XI [critd]x2 [dmg], which is a 70% bonus to critical severity.

I have Phaser Dual Heavy Cannons MK XII [critd]x3, which also has a 70% bonus to critical severity, does more DPS, and has the phaser proc.

Given that there are several energy weapon types other than AP that have the same critical severity but come in higher MKs, you'd probably be better off going with a different energy type.

If you can't afford new gear, I'd say stick with the APs until you feel like switching to something better. Maybe someday they will make MK XII or one with [critd]x3, and then it would be worth it to switch back (assuming they aren't ridiculously expensive).

Makes sense, running in a escort now so ill probably hold onto them for now.

I'll probably replace them all with Polaron eventually though if thats the case, are the XII's easier to acquire now? Last i remembered it was something you could only consistently get from running Kerrat over and over again.

adamkafei

fenrir136 wrote: »

I'll probably replace them all with Polaron eventually though if thats the case, are the XII's easier to acquire now? Last i remembered it was something you could only consistently get from running Kerrat over and over again.

it is slightly easier than that, only it's not Kerrat any more, it's elite STFs and the drop rate is a joke

lordmalak1

WHEW, glad I didn't spring for that 3rd set of Mk 11 AP cannons now.

insanerandomnes

AP is still popular, I use them myself. You can get Mk 12 antiproton weaponry, but you're going too pay through the nose. If you're going for procs, polaron/disruptor/tetryon is a bit more popular. Of the three of those, the cheapest is polaron, and if you're KDF, you can do some serious damage with the combination plasmonic leach and polarons.

mimey2

insanerandomnes wrote: »

AP is still popular, I use them myself. You can get Mk 12 antiproton weaponry, but you're going too pay through the nose. If you're going for procs, polaron/disruptor/tetryon is a bit more popular. Of the three of those, the cheapest is polaron, and if you're KDF, you can do some serious damage with the combination plasmonic leach and polarons.

Or, more recently, the Polarized Disruptors.

foundrelic

adamkafei wrote: »

I think it might just be that people want procs rather than extra crit chance/damage after-all, as we all know; blowing a ship up is fun... messing with it is more fun

Speak for yourself. I'd rather the ship I'm shooting at go away as soon as possible.

orondis

The biggest problem with AP weapons is that they generally have poor mods for both PvE and PvP (especially PvP).

For PvE the best mods are either [CrtD]x2[CrtH] or [CrtD][CrtH]x2.

For PvP the best mods are [Acc]x3.

lianthelia

orondis wrote: »

The biggest problem with AP weapons is that they generally have poor mods for both PvE and PvP (especially PvP).

For PvE the best mods are either [CrtD]x2[CrtH] or [CrtD][CrtH]x2.

For PvP the best mods are [Acc]x3.

Wish they would change crafting, so maybe could at least get random mods from crafting a item instead of the lousy mods...or least give the weapons [acc]x2 so they have use in pve and pvp.

meimeitoo

fenrir136 wrote: »

Hey returning player and i had a question about Anti-Proton weapons.

When I was last playing they seemed to be very popular with high end groups and now I hardly ever see anyone using them. Have they been given a significant nerf or is the removal of Weapon types on the Skill Menu "elevated" other weapon types?

On the contrary! Antiproton is back, with a vengeance! And this, of course, because of the Chroniton Dual Beam (part of the 3-piece temporal warfare set from the lobi store), which does AP dmg. So, it makes sense to go all-antiproton on these new temporal ships (at least for your energy weps).

shookyang

insanerandomnes wrote: »

AP is still popular, I use them myself. You can get Mk 12 antiproton weaponry, but you're going too pay through the nose. If you're going for procs, polaron/disruptor/tetryon is a bit more popular. Of the three of those, the cheapest is polaron, and if you're KDF, you can do some serious damage with the combination plasmonic leach and polarons.

What mods? The only mk XII AP weapons I've seen are Borg weapons. Never seen them on the exchange.

orondis wrote: »

The biggest problem with AP weapons is that they generally have poor mods for both PvE and PvP (especially PvP).

For PvE the best mods are either [CrtD]x2[CrtH] or [CrtD][CrtH]x2.

For PvP the best mods are [Acc]x3.

Depends on the weapon. If they are Dual Heavy Cannons, [critd]x3 is the best for PvE and PvP.

redricky

Acc mods are less important if you are fluffing your target appropriately. Deny them their defense score first. Which, given the wealth of slows and disables, even AOE flavors, is easier these days.

lordmalak1

shookyang wrote: »

What mods? The only mk XII AP weapons I've seen are Borg weapons. Never seen them on the exchange.


Depends on the weapon. If they are Dual Heavy Cannons, [critd]x3 is the best for PvE and PvP.

So where do you get these [acc]X3 weapons ? Been looking/asking all weekend and concluded they're fleet weapons, right ?

shookyang

redricky wrote: »

Acc mods are less important if you are fluffing your target appropriately. Deny them their defense score first. Which, given the wealth of slows and disables, even AOE flavors, is easier these days.

I tested a single DHC with [critd]x3. I have 25% bonus accuracy. And I tested against a ship with 81% defense. I still hit them, on average, a little over 80% of the time in over 500 shots.

ACC is not needed on a DHC, when you can get a different modifier and do much more damage in the long run.

lordmalak1 wrote: »

So where do you get these [acc]X3 weapons ? Been looking/asking all weekend and concluded they're fleet weapons, right ?

Fleet weapons are [dmg]x3 + another modifier.

I have never seen an [acc]x3 AP DHC before.

If you meant to ask about [critd]x3 on an AP weapon, they don't exist. And I doubt they ever will. 90% critical severity would be ridiculous.

trhrangerxml

I don't think its that people learned that procs can be fun, its that there are new weapon types and buffs to old ones with big benefits. When season 6 buffed the Quad Phaser Cannons, all of a sudden a lot of people, including myself switched from AP to Phasers and it was night and day in terms of effect. Now we have Fleet Advanced Weapons and MK XII Phased Tetryons and Polarized Disruptors. And the best part of Polarized Disruptors is since they are Disruptor damage, they can be combined with Quad Disruptor Cannons for DPS or sublemented in with out loosing to much damage from using mixed weapon type into a disruptor build, which was my chief complaint about Phased Tetryon since they do Tetryon damage.

lordmalak1

shookyang wrote: »

I tested a single DHC with [critd]x3. I have 25% bonus accuracy. And I tested against a ship with 81% defense. I still hit them, on average, a little over 80% of the time in over 500 shots.

ACC is not needed on a DHC, when you can get a different modifier and do much more damage in the long run.



Fleet weapons are [dmg]x3 + another modifier.

I have never seen an [acc]x3 AP DHC before.

If you meant to ask about [critd]x3 on an AP weapon, they don't exist. And I doubt they ever will. 90% critical severity would be ridiculous.

Well... seems a bit contradictory if you ask me- why would they put [acc]X anythng on a DHC if it wasn't needed, but I've held off upgrading my weapons hoping to lay my hands on some [acc]X3 DHC's, even considered going phasers instead of AP or my current disruptor DHC's.

Even more disgusted after looking at AP prices over the weekend:
Craftable mk11 purple AP DHC's= 15000 dilith (for uncommon materials)+500 (for commons)+ assorted data samples
Dilithium store- 22620 dilith for same weapon
STF store- 2 rare salvage (1056 dilth each), or 10 EDC's (1056 dilith TOTAL) for same weapon+borg modifier.
Exchange- about a million-ish EC depending on the day.

shookyang

lordmalak1 wrote: »

Well... seems a bit contradictory if you ask me- why would they put [acc]X anythng on a DHC if it wasn't needed, but I've held off upgrading my weapons hoping to lay my hands on some [acc]X3 DHC's, even considered going phasers instead of AP or my current disruptor DHC's.

Even more disgusted after looking at AP prices over the weekend:
Craftable mk11 purple AP DHC's= 15000 dilith (for uncommon materials)+500 (for commons)+ assorted data samples
Dilithium store- 22620 dilith for same weapon
STF store- 2 rare salvage (1056 dilth each), or 10 EDC's (1056 dilith TOTAL) for same weapon+borg modifier.
Exchange- about a million-ish EC depending on the day.

I'd say pick up a set (with damage consoles) that have critdx3 and try them for yourself.

They are pretty cheap for mk xi. Someone in the opvp chat channel said that DHCs have an inherit accuracy of 85%. I don't know if this is true or not.

lordmalak1

shookyang wrote: »

I'd say pick up a set (with damage consoles) that have critdx3 and try them for yourself.

They are pretty cheap for mk xi. Someone in the opvp chat channel said that DHCs have an inherit accuracy of 85%. I don't know if this is true or not.

Buahahahaha !!

I crafted a MK 11 purple SET (4DHC's and 4 turrets) at immense dilithium cost 2 months ago on my ENG toon, and a month later REPLACED them all with a Borg STF set purchased with EDC's and rare salvage. Yes, they seriously ROCK on my ENGie, but I get higher DPS on my TAC with white Mk11 Disruptors than my ENGie with purple AP.

A few weeks ago a patch came out allowing these weapons to be account bound instead of toon bound BUT not retroactive to include those weapons already equipped (and bound).

...I wont AGAIN spend 100,000+ dilithium to equip my current toon, or use 16 rare salvage (OR 80 EDC's) to buy the borg versions of my AP set.


IF I'm gonna spend that kinda currency AGAIN, I plan on buying the VERY BEST, especially since they going onto a PvP only toon.

hereticknight085

lordmalak1 wrote: »

...I wont AGAIN spend 100,000+ dilithium to equip my current toon, or use 16 rare salvage (OR 80 EDC's) to buy the borg versions of my AP set.

I don't see an issue with 16 rare salvage. That's easy to get. The 100k plus dilithium is understandable. But 16 rare salvage? That's not bad at all. 16 PROTO salvage, ok, that might be a pain. But rare? Are we doing the same stfs?

shookyang

lordmalak1 wrote: »

Buahahahaha !!

I crafted a MK 11 purple SET (4DHC's and 4 turrets) at immense dilithium cost 2 months ago on my ENG toon, and a month later REPLACED them all with a Borg STF set purchased with EDC's and rare salvage. Yes, they seriously ROCK on my ENGie, but I get higher DPS on my TAC with white Mk11 Disruptors than my ENGie with purple AP.

A few weeks ago a patch came out allowing these weapons to be account bound instead of toon bound BUT not retroactive to include those weapons already equipped (and bound).

...I wont AGAIN spend 100,000+ dilithium to equip my current toon, or use 16 rare salvage (OR 80 EDC's) to buy the borg versions of my AP set.


IF I'm gonna spend that kinda currency AGAIN, I plan on buying the VERY BEST, especially since they going onto a PvP only toon.

I was actually referring to getting them off the exchange for EC. Much less expensive than using dilithium and salvages.

I think I saw some mk xi phaser dhcs [critd]x3 for under 400k EC a piece. I believe the relays are about 150k EC?

chillee

[ACC x 3] is always nice as excess beyond that needed to hit converts to increased chance to do critical damage.{CritD} is ok, but you actually have to have a critical hit first. Not that hard in PvE though... BUT in PvP, much harder. That is here {ACC x 3] shows its value.

I mean, seriously, do you really need much special bonus (Acc, CitH, CritD, etc) to handle things in PvE even when at Advanced or higher levels?