Read all the posts. Dont wanna quote each one so imma hit some points.
1. Lens flare. Yes. Gotta go. But unwatchable no. The first 19 min of star trek are my fav of almost any movie
2. The engine room. For budgwt reason the engine room was always the size of a closet. This is actuallly a lot more accurate. It would be large. Take up many decks.
3. Pike tells kirk he could have his own ship in 4. Kirk says ill do it in three. Kirk gets the enterprise in 3. He is called a genius. His scores off the charts.
4. We build ships on the ground right now and launch them in space. Why does this seem improbable in the future.
5. Pike doesnt say "she is the first of its kind" he says "she's new". Which she was. Brand new.
6. Uhura arguing to get enterprise cause she was the beat and brightest implies only the best and brightest are assigned. The precedent for this set in wrath of kahn.
7. Kirks father being killed causes him to not join starfleet when he normally would have. This is implied when kirk and spoc talk and spoc says "he was your inspiration for joining and lived to see you become captain.
8. No star trek movie is without holes and bad acting. But it feels like you are trying to hate this. This movie was more fun and entertaining. They kept the core of who the eqch character was. Kirk spoc and bones were perfect. They gave us a fresh start without discrediting what was done before.
They clearly state that this timeline did not alter the future in any way. Everything that had happened already did. This was new. So its new adventures for an old crew. If you want to see shatner and nemoy galivant across the cosmos. Watch those movies
Hello, I'm quite new here (and don't really post on forums that often in any case) but I felt the urge to reply.
I have several problems with this movie, most of mine revolve around the plot. Several of these have been touched on already. If you'll forgive the length I'll address some with my ideas on how it could have worked.
1) Red matter can do ANYthing:
I understand they needed plot device-ium to set the whole thing up but there are better ways than an artificial black hole that changed properties at the end of the film (instead of sending the Narnia further back it destroys it).
Instead of using red matter to do both perhaps they could have used an existing (although I admit, still ridiculous) way of sending the characters back in time. When Spock (Prime) preforms the mind-meld, have him explain that he failed and Nero chased him around a star. Since Nero was moving faster to overtake him, he ended up further back. The lightning effect that Kirk recognizes could be changed to the strange weapon signatures.
2) Nero. He's an idiot (and one-dimensional):
If you go back in time to save your planet, you don't try to kill the only person who tried to help you.
When he first arrives in the new time-line, he can still kill the captain, but his reasons are to cover his tracks so the Federation doesn't know there's a ship from the 24th century trying to help the Romulans. When he attacks Vulcan (Not strictly out of revenge, it's just a bonus) and brings Pike onboard he explains about Romulus' destruction in the future. He goes on to say it took him over 2 decades to convince the Empire that there was a threat, and they only agreed to act if all the other "distractions" were taken care of.
3) The Kirk and Spock kid scenes:
I know people liked them, and many would cry "But it introduces us to the characters." It's redundant and wastes screen time. You can still be introduced to the characters when they are adults. The bar scene tells you all you need to know about Kirk. Spock talking to his mother and rejecting the Vulcan Science Academy's offer does the same. Cut it. We don't lose any story, plus we save money and time.
4) The Kobyosi Maru:
I get it. Show that Kirk doesn't think there's a no-win situation. But come on. Any idiot can tell he cheated. It wasn't subtle. The freakin' power went out during the test. Any instructor should have stopped it and restarted it after the system was checked.
Instead of the blatant cheat, a more subtle one, it doesn't have to be explained explicitly, could be used. Say he added a couple lines of code that made the Klingons fear "Captain Kirk" (this way no other cadets would be able to use his cheat) and in response, use the wrong tactics to counter him. Spock can still cry foul, but there is a lot less solid ground to expel him. It would involve digging through the simulator's code to find the small added parts. While Spock has that attention to detail the crisis would derail that.
5) The ship size:
I know, I said I mostly had problems with the plot. But come on. Bigger than a Galaxy Class? It should have already been on the drawing boards at the point of the time-line divergence.
It was stated that the size increase was due to the shuttlecraft docking scene. Cut it. It's why Roddenberry made up the transporter. So he wouldn't have to waste the money on shuttle scenes. You can still have the beauty shot of the new ship by having McCoy sneak Kirk onto the ship the same way, just say the disease evades the medical screen on the transporter. Ta-da. You can save the CGI budget and keep the ship at around 355 meters.
6) Sulu is indeed incompetent:
He stalled the ship. Stalled. The. Ship.
Instead have the main engineer stall it by not setting the intermix ratio correctly and transmitting the wrong commands to Sulu's station. It would at least give Scotty a reason to take command down there.
7) Spock is a horrible commander and everyone goes along with his war crime:
When he kicked Kirk off the ship no one said, "But Sir, don't we have a brig for this?"
Instead of a public scene, Kirk and Spock could have taken a private walk, where somehow Spock looses his cool (It's better to have one character be dumb then the whole bridge crew) and shoves him in a pod telling everyone Kirk was confined to quarters with no visitors. Also, since Spock is quite angry, have him be the one to want to go after Nero, and Kirk explain to him that there's no such thing as a no-win situation, as long as you're smart. They need the fleet.
8) Why didn't they just shoot the darn drill out of the sky:
For the cool sky-diving scene obviously.
This doesn't get cut. Just re-explained. Nero tells Pike to come onboard but to power down weapons or they will be destroyed. So a covert plan is needed. It's just a line! It could be added without any problems (Especially if the kid scenes are cut).
There are more complaints about the plot and what could have been changed but I'm going to skip to the one that pulled me out of the movie and got me to waste all this time thinking of ways they could have fixed it and it includes my idea of how the sequel could have started.
9) Kirk goes from academic probation to a fully ranked Captain:
Not how it works. Not how it ever worked. No person in their right mind would approve that commission. Ever.
Yes he saved the seat of the Federation. He gets a medal. He gets his academic probation lifted. Maybe he gets to jump to a full Lieutenant upon graduation. The scene with Pike being relieved is flipped. Kirk gives the ship back to him, but whispers, "Don't get too comfy, I plan on getting it back in 5 years." Pike responses, "I look forward to that."
I understand they wanted to put all the characters in their roles, but it makes no sense at the end of the day instead...
Opening for Star Trek: The Search for More Money:
It starts with Kirk's commission ceremony upon receiving the Enterprise. The speech, given by Admiral Pike, serves as an introduction to new viewers as to the past movie and fills in some of the gaps as to his service. Things like Kirk is the youngest captain in starfleet history, also one of the most driven blah blah blah. While his speech is going, it cuts to the bridge crew receiving their transfer orders, thus introducing them and their positions on the ship.
Now I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the movie. I had fun with it, right until the end. The ending did sully my opinion. I might not have liked all the lens flare, but I did like the art direction. I liked the cast. In what was, no doubt, a very high profile reboot they were probably pulling out their hair off-screen. I didn't go in expecting a timeless classic and I didn't even notice some of the complaints I had until I was pulled out and thought about the movie in more detail. I still bought the thing on DVD and might pick it up on Blu-Ray (now that I have a better TV).
Everyone's opinion is different. If you enjoyed the movie, awesome! I saw it twice in the theaters. If nothing else to give them a reason for a sequel. I'd like to hear what people think of these ideas though. Many cups of coffee died to bring you this.
much of what you said I agree, about the Kobyosi Maru, if you watch the deleted scenes you see how he actually did it, it was what you said lol, he TRIBBLE it with his own programme. They thing is I think the movie was made to bring in the audiences of those who never watch star trek that probably (most likely) why it did so well but they did not keep the past audiences me and you, happy.
much of what you said I agree, about the Kobyosi Maru, if you watch the deleted scenes you see how he actually did it, it was what you said lol, he TRIBBLE it with his own programme. They thing is I think the movie was made to bring in the audiences of those who never watch star trek that probably (most likely) why it did so well but they did not keep the past audiences me and you, happy.
Oh I agree. They did a great job bringing in new people. I converted a friend over with the movie. Can't argue with the results. If it helps with keeping investor interest in the franchise alive it can't be completely condemned. That and as I said, I like the cast. Although I wish Bruce Greenwood had more screen time.
I remember that deleted scene, it was the Orion girl from the earlier scene. It's what caused the blackout in the simulator if I recall. That would have raised even more red flags, I think that's why it was cut. I pictured it more Kirk going in and changing it at some console from an adjoining room or something.
My peeve is that the film follows the mould of previous films; stop a generic super villain and his super duper mega weapon from destroying the universe.
I mean okay, I have so many problems with the film in terms of the butchery of the character writing (Kirk in particular) and the terrible acting, the looks of the vfx and sets, and inconsistencies that I feel undermines canon (yeah yeah, I know - alternative universe and all) etc, and I could list them all if I could be bothered, but as I haven't seen this pile of excrement of a film since it came out I have forgotten most of it.
But what I didn't forget was that the villain's motive wasn?t particularly convincing to me, the vulcans were trying to help the romulans, so just because they failed he goes into the past and destroy their planet? What good would that have done? His world would still have blown up regardless. Dumb dumb and dumb. Just send a fricking message to the Romulans about when the supernova would happen so they can prepare to evacuate the planet before it happens, job done and slingshot back home with (old) spock.
The only thing in the trek franchise that is worse than this film is all 98 or so episodes of Enterprise, so the only achievement JJ has done is to produce something as bad as something they could produce.
I have two, but the one main, over-riding, makes the freaking movie almost unwatchable:
:eek::eek: LENS FLARE!!!!!!!!!! :eek::eek:
I mean, I could barely tell what was going on the bridge of the Kelvin for the most part. I really wanted to put some mini-blinds or something on the viewscreen/window.
Second, kind of nit-picky, was the fact that the Enterprise was assembled totally on the ground and then somehow magically made it through the thick atmosphere at escape velocity without the rather flimsy nacelle struts breaking off. I know you could say it was all beamed into space, but in ST: IV, Scotty was having a heck of a time beaming just two whales and the associated water into the ship. I know, this is the Abrams-verse where the rules aren't the same, but still.
Maybe they could have used tractor beams from another ship to pull her up lol
I know the JJ Abrams Star Trek is a rather touchy subject with most Trekkies, but I felt the need to get my pet peeves with the movie out there. I have three.
1. The warp "core" in the movie was multiple cores which doesn't make sense to me. Could anybody explain why they did the warp core this way instead of the standard warp core from all the other Star Treks.
Maybe the person who designed the enterprise in the prime universe died on the kelvin meaning somone else got there plans chosen instead lol
I know the JJ Abrams Star Trek is a rather touchy subject with most Trekkies, but I felt the need to get my pet peeves with the movie out there. I have three.
1. The warp "core" in the movie was multiple cores which doesn't make sense to me. Could anybody explain why they did the warp core this way instead of the standard warp core from all the other Star Treks.
Maybe the person who designed the enterprise in the prime universe died on the kelvin meaning somone else got there plans chosen instead lol
that's the sort of thing I was thinking. But.... trutuhfully, when you really think about it..... the Warp Core of the Ent D, despite being HUGE, was rather pitifully small compared to the actual size of the ship. Seriously.... it's supposed to be 2000 feet long.
1. The warp "core" in the movie was multiple cores which doesn't make sense to me. Could anybody explain why they did the warp core this way instead of the standard warp core from all the other Star Treks.
Quick answer: that's the way the brewery they rented to dress up as "Engineering" was constructed. The set designers could only do so much with what they had.
-
Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Comments
1. Lens flare. Yes. Gotta go. But unwatchable no. The first 19 min of star trek are my fav of almost any movie
2. The engine room. For budgwt reason the engine room was always the size of a closet. This is actuallly a lot more accurate. It would be large. Take up many decks.
3. Pike tells kirk he could have his own ship in 4. Kirk says ill do it in three. Kirk gets the enterprise in 3. He is called a genius. His scores off the charts.
4. We build ships on the ground right now and launch them in space. Why does this seem improbable in the future.
5. Pike doesnt say "she is the first of its kind" he says "she's new". Which she was. Brand new.
6. Uhura arguing to get enterprise cause she was the beat and brightest implies only the best and brightest are assigned. The precedent for this set in wrath of kahn.
7. Kirks father being killed causes him to not join starfleet when he normally would have. This is implied when kirk and spoc talk and spoc says "he was your inspiration for joining and lived to see you become captain.
8. No star trek movie is without holes and bad acting. But it feels like you are trying to hate this. This movie was more fun and entertaining. They kept the core of who the eqch character was. Kirk spoc and bones were perfect. They gave us a fresh start without discrediting what was done before.
They clearly state that this timeline did not alter the future in any way. Everything that had happened already did. This was new. So its new adventures for an old crew. If you want to see shatner and nemoy galivant across the cosmos. Watch those movies
Sulu's mistake...
Vulcan having a blue sky...
Multiple uniforms...
Spock being an Academy instructor
My hopes are not high for the next one
I have several problems with this movie, most of mine revolve around the plot. Several of these have been touched on already. If you'll forgive the length I'll address some with my ideas on how it could have worked.
1) Red matter can do ANYthing:
I understand they needed plot device-ium to set the whole thing up but there are better ways than an artificial black hole that changed properties at the end of the film (instead of sending the Narnia further back it destroys it).
Instead of using red matter to do both perhaps they could have used an existing (although I admit, still ridiculous) way of sending the characters back in time. When Spock (Prime) preforms the mind-meld, have him explain that he failed and Nero chased him around a star. Since Nero was moving faster to overtake him, he ended up further back. The lightning effect that Kirk recognizes could be changed to the strange weapon signatures.
2) Nero. He's an idiot (and one-dimensional):
If you go back in time to save your planet, you don't try to kill the only person who tried to help you.
When he first arrives in the new time-line, he can still kill the captain, but his reasons are to cover his tracks so the Federation doesn't know there's a ship from the 24th century trying to help the Romulans. When he attacks Vulcan (Not strictly out of revenge, it's just a bonus) and brings Pike onboard he explains about Romulus' destruction in the future. He goes on to say it took him over 2 decades to convince the Empire that there was a threat, and they only agreed to act if all the other "distractions" were taken care of.
3) The Kirk and Spock kid scenes:
I know people liked them, and many would cry "But it introduces us to the characters." It's redundant and wastes screen time. You can still be introduced to the characters when they are adults. The bar scene tells you all you need to know about Kirk. Spock talking to his mother and rejecting the Vulcan Science Academy's offer does the same. Cut it. We don't lose any story, plus we save money and time.
I have more, but this post is too long already.
To be continued...
4) The Kobyosi Maru:
I get it. Show that Kirk doesn't think there's a no-win situation. But come on. Any idiot can tell he cheated. It wasn't subtle. The freakin' power went out during the test. Any instructor should have stopped it and restarted it after the system was checked.
Instead of the blatant cheat, a more subtle one, it doesn't have to be explained explicitly, could be used. Say he added a couple lines of code that made the Klingons fear "Captain Kirk" (this way no other cadets would be able to use his cheat) and in response, use the wrong tactics to counter him. Spock can still cry foul, but there is a lot less solid ground to expel him. It would involve digging through the simulator's code to find the small added parts. While Spock has that attention to detail the crisis would derail that.
5) The ship size:
I know, I said I mostly had problems with the plot. But come on. Bigger than a Galaxy Class? It should have already been on the drawing boards at the point of the time-line divergence.
It was stated that the size increase was due to the shuttlecraft docking scene. Cut it. It's why Roddenberry made up the transporter. So he wouldn't have to waste the money on shuttle scenes. You can still have the beauty shot of the new ship by having McCoy sneak Kirk onto the ship the same way, just say the disease evades the medical screen on the transporter. Ta-da. You can save the CGI budget and keep the ship at around 355 meters.
6) Sulu is indeed incompetent:
He stalled the ship. Stalled. The. Ship.
Instead have the main engineer stall it by not setting the intermix ratio correctly and transmitting the wrong commands to Sulu's station. It would at least give Scotty a reason to take command down there.
7) Spock is a horrible commander and everyone goes along with his war crime:
When he kicked Kirk off the ship no one said, "But Sir, don't we have a brig for this?"
Instead of a public scene, Kirk and Spock could have taken a private walk, where somehow Spock looses his cool (It's better to have one character be dumb then the whole bridge crew) and shoves him in a pod telling everyone Kirk was confined to quarters with no visitors. Also, since Spock is quite angry, have him be the one to want to go after Nero, and Kirk explain to him that there's no such thing as a no-win situation, as long as you're smart. They need the fleet.
8) Why didn't they just shoot the darn drill out of the sky:
For the cool sky-diving scene obviously.
This doesn't get cut. Just re-explained. Nero tells Pike to come onboard but to power down weapons or they will be destroyed. So a covert plan is needed. It's just a line! It could be added without any problems (Especially if the kid scenes are cut).
To be continued....
There are more complaints about the plot and what could have been changed but I'm going to skip to the one that pulled me out of the movie and got me to waste all this time thinking of ways they could have fixed it and it includes my idea of how the sequel could have started.
9) Kirk goes from academic probation to a fully ranked Captain:
Not how it works. Not how it ever worked. No person in their right mind would approve that commission. Ever.
Yes he saved the seat of the Federation. He gets a medal. He gets his academic probation lifted. Maybe he gets to jump to a full Lieutenant upon graduation. The scene with Pike being relieved is flipped. Kirk gives the ship back to him, but whispers, "Don't get too comfy, I plan on getting it back in 5 years." Pike responses, "I look forward to that."
I understand they wanted to put all the characters in their roles, but it makes no sense at the end of the day instead...
Opening for Star Trek: The Search for More Money:
It starts with Kirk's commission ceremony upon receiving the Enterprise. The speech, given by Admiral Pike, serves as an introduction to new viewers as to the past movie and fills in some of the gaps as to his service. Things like Kirk is the youngest captain in starfleet history, also one of the most driven blah blah blah. While his speech is going, it cuts to the bridge crew receiving their transfer orders, thus introducing them and their positions on the ship.
Now I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the movie. I had fun with it, right until the end. The ending did sully my opinion. I might not have liked all the lens flare, but I did like the art direction. I liked the cast. In what was, no doubt, a very high profile reboot they were probably pulling out their hair off-screen. I didn't go in expecting a timeless classic and I didn't even notice some of the complaints I had until I was pulled out and thought about the movie in more detail. I still bought the thing on DVD and might pick it up on Blu-Ray (now that I have a better TV).
Everyone's opinion is different. If you enjoyed the movie, awesome! I saw it twice in the theaters. If nothing else to give them a reason for a sequel. I'd like to hear what people think of these ideas though. Many cups of coffee died to bring you this.
Oh I agree. They did a great job bringing in new people. I converted a friend over with the movie. Can't argue with the results. If it helps with keeping investor interest in the franchise alive it can't be completely condemned. That and as I said, I like the cast. Although I wish Bruce Greenwood had more screen time.
I remember that deleted scene, it was the Orion girl from the earlier scene. It's what caused the blackout in the simulator if I recall. That would have raised even more red flags, I think that's why it was cut. I pictured it more Kirk going in and changing it at some console from an adjoining room or something.
I mean okay, I have so many problems with the film in terms of the butchery of the character writing (Kirk in particular) and the terrible acting, the looks of the vfx and sets, and inconsistencies that I feel undermines canon (yeah yeah, I know - alternative universe and all) etc, and I could list them all if I could be bothered, but as I haven't seen this pile of excrement of a film since it came out I have forgotten most of it.
But what I didn't forget was that the villain's motive wasn?t particularly convincing to me, the vulcans were trying to help the romulans, so just because they failed he goes into the past and destroy their planet? What good would that have done? His world would still have blown up regardless. Dumb dumb and dumb. Just send a fricking message to the Romulans about when the supernova would happen so they can prepare to evacuate the planet before it happens, job done and slingshot back home with (old) spock.
The only thing in the trek franchise that is worse than this film is all 98 or so episodes of Enterprise, so the only achievement JJ has done is to produce something as bad as something they could produce.
My character Tsin'xing
Quick answer: that's the way the brewery they rented to dress up as "Engineering" was constructed. The set designers could only do so much with what they had.
Formerly @Seschat pre PWEmerger. @Seschat on the Titan boards.
Supporter of the Titan Project.