First of all, let me just provide this disclaimer - this is not an attempt at social commentary, a bash against Cryptic, or a sneaky attempt at a backhanded statement about the perceived quality (or lack thereof) of the content of story missions. It's simply an attempt to investigate the veracity of a perception I've begun to have regarding the current makeup of the STO playerbase.
I have had the good fortune to find myself employed at a business that permits me to play STO while I am at work, which actually allows me a far more substantial amount of time ingame than I otherwise would have. Because my job is in the evenings (primarily) I am able to interact with people across the globe in multiple timezones, particularly a great number of U.S. players.
One common theme I've noticed, almost across the board, is a huge lack of knowledge among a great portion of the current playerbase concerning the Cryptic-made storyline missions, how they tie into the game, and why they're important. I've run into more Vice Admirals than I care to even think about who have made it to endgame without ever touching a story mission, propelled there by DOFF assignments and the various PvE / PvP events. Interestingly, when I have mentioned the existence of these missions, as well as the community authored content and the dailies, I've been met with general disinterest or an inquiry as to how to get through them as fast as possible.
So I'm putting the question out there to you guys - are we now in an era of STO where the majority of the playerbase does not care about story? Is our leading demographic now primarily composed of button-mashing pew-pew'ers who'd rather blow stuff up than seek immersion in the Star Trek universe? Is it possible that Dan Stahl's concerns that continued investment in story might not be worthwhile anymore actually have a foundation in reality?
And if so, has this been PWE's plan all along?
I welcome everyone's thoughts.
Actually I got my character to Vice Admiral because I played the story missions primarily. In addition to that I've done a fair bit of the DOFF missions and a few of the "borg dailies". I have yet to engage in any of the Foundary content (that's next on my list). I haven't yet considered any PVP.
For the record this is my first post on the Forum. I am not sure on the protocol if any but i started in July as a new free-to-play player and i love it. I see all over the threads on this forum some jaded and disenfranchised veterans who are 'fed up' with some elements of the game. But so far i have been able to craft my own experience and couldn't stop playing or enjoying if i wanted to. I am posting this here because one of the things that has kept me logging in nearly every night for these past two months are the story episodes. As designed they are structured not unlike seasons of Star trek and span across the entire playable realm and and offer vast and variable experiences from actually seeing the Guardian of Forever to learning the truth about the Romulus supernova.
I admit that there are only loose ties to cannon. And it is fair to say that some of the playable options in game are limited (destroy or disable, thats it?). But i am amazed that after two months, a level 48 Rear Admiral, a few PvP, PvE and STF missions at a decent albeit biased success rate, i still enjoy the episodes and truly feel like i am going where no one has gone before.
I did notice that we are at war but there is little structure or explanation. But i imagine that if this has happened a while back 'in game' then there was little opportunity to explain it. But if you can slingshot around a hidden Section 31 sun and stop the Devidians from altering the past, or help Scotty make a drink for a frazzled shipmate then there must be a way to explore a 'how it all began' story line.
"Risk is part of the game if you wanna sit in that chair."
I did notice that we are at war but there is little structure or explanation. But i imagine that if this has happened a while back 'in game' then there was little opportunity to explain it. But if you can slingshot around a hidden Section 31 sun and stop the Devidians from altering the past, or help Scotty make a drink for a frazzled shipmate then there must be a way to explore a 'how it all began' story line.
There haven't really been any removals of storyline missions or major changes in the game universe that advance the story; if you'd been here since launch you would have gotten the same explanations (or lack thereof) for ingame events.
The stuff you mention regarding the Devidians and time travel was added well after launch, as were all the Featured Episode series, but nothing's really been removed. A couple of missions have been majorly changed, but those changes have been to improve their function, not remove their story.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
There haven't really been any removals of storyline missions or major changes in the game universe that advance the story; if you'd been here since launch you would have gotten the same explanations (or lack thereof) for ingame events.
The stuff you mention regarding the Devidians and time travel was added well after launch, as were all the Featured Episode series, but nothing's really been removed. A couple of missions have been majorly changed, but those changes have been to improve their function, not remove their story.
Yeah.
The only backstory given is via the website or the random datachips at the Academy, aside from some sporadically laced in missions, and Spock's voiceover in Sector Space, which I guess you'd miss with the audio off.
I think they need to seriously look at a new trailer that covers what the heck is going on and, well... What Star Trek IS and WAS.
They didn't have art on all the uniforms at launch but they do now.
I think the ideal would be to open with WWIII, show as much of First Contact as likeness will allow for, show Enterprise-era and the NX01, show TOS, show WoK era, show TNG, amd show the Dominion War. With captions like "40 Years Ago," "120 Years Ago," etc.
A lot of people may have only seen one or two of the shows. Having it all laid out in context is a must, IMHO. It's a win for people who know it, like covering their favorite song. It's a need for people who don't.
A lot of people may have only seen one or two of the shows. Having it all laid out in context is a must, IMHO. It's a win for people who know it, like covering their favorite song. It's a need for people who don't.
This is what the Path to 2409 was supposed to be, but with only one writer, they have to prioritize. Kestrel's not sitting around at work surfing the web waiting for opportunities to write something; they've got her working.
Hopefully they'll get her some help in this new hiring surge, and let her concentrate on writing the "bible" and let the new folks take over some of the content writing. We've all been in that same position more than once in our careers; where you don't have time to stop and write documentation so that other people can take over part of your duties and give you time to write documentation.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
This is what the Path to 2409 was supposed to be, but with only one writer, they have to prioritize. Kestrel's not sitting around at work surfing the web waiting for opportunities to write something; they've got her working.
Hopefully they'll get her some help in this new hiring surge, and let her concentrate on writing the "bible" and let the new folks take over some of the content writing. We've all been in that same position more than once in our careers; where you don't have time to stop and write documentation so that other people can take over part of your duties and give you time to write documentation.
Well, one of my issues isn't the volume or quality of writing. It's that the writing is ghettoized, off in the corner.
I did notice that we are at war but there is little structure or explanation.
The basic gist of it is: The Klingons start invading worlds because they are aware of high level Undine shapeshifter infiltration at high levels of government in their neighbors. Of course they start invading their neighbors to purge the Undine threat. The Federation doesn't buy it and censures them, or something to that effect. The Klingons, true to their nature, say F you and your treaty, we don't want/need your approval, and war soon follows. The Feds seem aware of the Undine, but are either not as commited as the Klingons, or at least not willing to invade to get the Undine out.
At least I think that's what is going on, I'm almost sure that's it, I think.
i still have to go through the storyline a few more times to come, i am planning 10 more characters after buying two more slots to make up 4 at the moment. im aiming to hit 14 characters within the next few months, all at level 50 all of them doing dailies for dilthium, 14 x 8k = 112,000 dilthium a day, at 155 dilithium per zen that is a little over 720 zen a day.
OP:
I play story missions almost exclusively. I do my 1/day mining, and Officer Reports, maybe a STF with the Fleet, but most of my time on the game is dedicated to running Story Missions. Like you I find myself often doing so without any other Players, but stuck with my BOFFs and devolping the story and attitude of my Caitian from those stories.
As an avid RPer outside the game, I am struggling to find a decent group to RP with especially since for some reason when I see a friend log on, and send a tell, I often don't get a response. The default scroll of the chat sees to that, if someone is in combat, or lots of folk are talking in zone or local, my tell gets lost amidst the tide...
As it stands I end up with solo content 4/5 of the time, simply due to that fact alone...
I am around lv 45 myself and only just started the Cardassian storyline so...still much for me to do! Hopefully there will be more story content in the upcoming season?
And i have the same problem as well, looking for more RP'ers myself to hang with or do missions with!
See... This has been part of my cry for a new tutorial. I think the tutorial we have is actually one of the better done missions in the game, technically, but I'd push to shuffle it off somewhere else.
Because, frankly, you'd have to go to the website to really have it hammered home that this is 2409. You'd have to go to the website or the wiki or spend days playing a console clicking daily to know what happened to anyone aside from Spock, Torres, Paris, Thomas Riker, and Naomi Wildman. You'd have to play Klingon-side for anything of substance about Worf or Martok.
There is zero initiation into the setting, either Star Trek and its context or history for new players or 2409 as a distinct brand for old players, and the initiation you do get is a weird status update by the disembodied ghost of Spock who shouldn't know any of this.
My best two changes for the initiation I can think of are:
1) You start off as a Captain who gets hit with a memory wipe weapon. The tutorial is you being guided to figure out how to run your ship. At the end, you get a memory flash showing you the history of the Federation and you get busted down, provisionally, to Lt. They still need you to command a ship (there's a shortage of good captains and the war claims dozens daily on each front) but they can't trust you with a security clearance. Every 10 levels, you get a flash of a lost memory, filling in your knowledge of events. Could even become a plot point in some missions. People who recognize you that you've never met or sporadic bursts of memory.
2) You get an opening cinematic of your character at the Guardian of Forever. (And this gets used as an excuse to get a better Guardian voice.) Your character has Fleet Admiral pips and uniform and approaches the Guardian, set to a dramatic score. The Guardian announces it can show you your own history and plays a cinematic of your faction's history. Which for the Feds, covers WWIII through 2409 (for the sake of people only passingly familiar with Star Trek). Each generation is represented IN CONTEXT and IN SEQUENCE by people wearing the uniforms even if characters are not shown.
Your character replies that they know all of this and that they simply have one question for the Guardian: Were all the prices paid worth it? And the Guardian replies that it can show your Captain their own history. Your Captain agrees and the tutorial begins.
Every front that you complete, in place of the promotion ceremony, it cuts back to your character as a Fleet Admiral standing at the Guardian. The Guardian summarizes, indicating that each of the mission fronts were separated by months or years and you get glimpses of things like your crew meeting around a table, a concert at Earth Spacedock, and mounting turmoil such as Hakeev talking to his unseen masters, Shon aboard the Belfast, or a Bajoran pilgrim talking to the Prophets, who tell her that a hand that remains closed is no longer a hand.
The Federation doesn't buy it and censures them, or something to that effect. The Klingons, true to their nature, say F you and your treaty, we don't want/need your approval, and war soon follows.
To me, it seems like the entire Klingon War was motivated by J'mpok's butthurt. I mean, sure, the Federation didn't SUPPORT him, and may have even issued a strongly worded letter of condemnation, but what exactly did the Federation actually *DO*? Essentially, nothing. So, basically, the entire war is about J'mpok being butthurt that the Federation called him a bad boy, seeing as being strongly condemned by the Federation, in my mind, carries about as much impact as being condemned by the UN.
So I'm putting the question out there to you guys - are we now in an era of STO where the majority of the playerbase does not care about story? Is our leading demographic now primarily composed of button-mashing pew-pew'ers who'd rather blow stuff up than seek immersion in the Star Trek universe? Is it possible that Dan Stahl's concerns that continued investment in story might not be worthwhile anymore actually have a foundation in reality?
And if so, has this been PWE's plan all along?
I welcome everyone's thoughts.
In a word....yes. Sadly yes. The MMO game world is primarily comprised of 12 year olds and/or intellectual 12 year olds who are more concerned with the size of their epeen and how hard they can smack another play with it than any storyline content written by anyone. Sadly they could have teamed Robert Heinlein <someone I doubt more than 5% of the people reading this will know about> and Ray Bradbury <again same comment> together with Gene Roddenberry to write all of the storyline content of this game and I still doubt that more than 10% of the player base would be interested in the missions. Not because they arn't good, well thought out, integrated missions with good stories to keep you interested in what's going to happen next, but primarily because as I said most of the player base for MMO's is people who want to know their epeen is bigger than most everyone elses so they can beat everyone up with it till everyone gets the same gear they have and they realize they need even BETTER gear to be uber again so they go on the forums and whine and cry about it loudly to everyone they know that the devs are idiots/morons/couldent program squat because their isnt a new more powerful item/weapon for them to be better than other players with.
This is tragically the case of most MMO's today. Both F2P and Sub based, although the sub based ones are getting few and far between. I play and have been playing MMO's since Ultima Online came out and that player group has always been there, but only in the last few years has it become considered a majority primarily because they are the most vocal in forums about how bad the game sucks because some new items don't come out every week to satisfy their need for a bigger epeen than anyone else.
I'm sure Cryptic could provide some good data about total player base vs how many have played thru the storyline missions and I SINCERELY hope it's a larger percentage than has not, especially since you can get some pretty decent stuff from the missions, and from repeating the missions, until you suffer yourself to the STF grind to get the game uber gear not because you want to kill everyone in sight, but just because it's game content you havent done yet.
I fear sadly though from your comments about people you've talked to, and from Stahl's comments that this may not be the case, and that those of us who appreciate the game on a level other than who/what we can kill next and how easily we can kill it, are part of a dying breed left to stutter thru whatever new story content is offered until the game gets so end-game/combat focused that we finally get sick of playing and leave for the next new game that will probably START with good storyline and missions, but will ultimately get reduced to the same sad combat/epeen game every other one seems to be sliding into because of corporate greed and the need for marketers to tell programmers what they should program instead of letting them program what looks like is needed in the game to make the game a better place......
Feel free to flame away. I've been at this a long time in several games and no mater how much you love to hate my point of view if you even have 2 brain cells to rub together you know it's correct. I really wish it wasn't, honestly I do.
The only backstory given is via the website or the random datachips at the Academy, aside from some sporadically laced in missions, and Spock's voiceover in Sector Space, which I guess you'd miss with the audio off.
I think they need to seriously look at a new trailer that covers what the heck is going on and, well... What Star Trek IS and WAS.
They didn't have art on all the uniforms at launch but they do now.
I think the ideal would be to open with WWIII, show as much of First Contact as likeness will allow for, show Enterprise-era and the NX01, show TOS, show WoK era, show TNG, amd show the Dominion War. With captions like "40 Years Ago," "120 Years Ago," etc.
A lot of people may have only seen one or two of the shows. Having it all laid out in context is a must, IMHO. It's a win for people who know it, like covering their favorite song. It's a need for people who don't.
After reading all the posts in here and especially noting yours, I have to say that I most generally agree with your pov as far as gaming and MMO's in general and the state of MMO's espoused by others who are considered experts in the industry.
What I have to ask though to you and anyone else who is more knowledgeable than "Where is my next new PEW PEW TOY!!!! WAAAAAAHHHH" is, Where is the way forward?
I think anyone with even a passing knowledge of economics and how these games are run/programmed knows that creating new story content is FAR more cost and time consuming than simply dropping in some shiny new toys for the PEW PEW crowd. So do we take the long view of general consensus, our OP of this thread, and Stahl's comments that perhaps storytelling in MMO's is a dying idea? Or should we take the info that there are more people being hired to write story content as a possible sign that all hope is not lost?
Belive me I fully understand these games first and foremost need to make money to survive and keep being programmed for new content and fixes of old issues. But at what point does the game simply become a cash grab to give temporary instant gratification to the end-gamers while the rest of us who actually LIKE and APPRECIATE the effort that is put into story missions fade into the sunset dust?
So I'm putting the question out there to you guys - are we now in an era of STO where the majority of the playerbase does not care about story? Is our leading demographic now primarily composed of button-mashing pew-pew'ers who'd rather blow stuff up than seek immersion in the Star Trek universe? Is it possible that Dan Stahl's concerns that continued investment in story might not be worthwhile anymore actually have a foundation in reality?
And if so, has this been PWE's plan all along?
I welcome everyone's thoughts.
All the important parts of STO are in the end-game for most people. That has been true for a long time. The problem with the story-line missions is that while they are great EXP they are otherwise unimportant. Nothing you do changes anything in the actual story of STO. That would require STO to be a serious Sandbox style MMO and it is anything BUT that.
I have 6 characters at lvl 50 and while I have done the storyline missions for both sides (what few exist for the KDF) I have never really bothered to sit down and really read what I was doing very thoroughly. I do appreciate the FE's in particular and I LOVED and payed attention to the KDF Gre'thor story arc. Besides that I have a hard time feeling "immersed" in the Star Trek universe when the combat feels nothing like Trek, the missions are all "Shoot everything that moves!" and the Federation is allowing folks to fly around in Tholian, Ferengie, Cardassian, and Jem'hadar ships that break with Canon power levels all over the place. Also there are the STF's which have no real place in the storyline and extreme inconsistency with the Borg.
In simpler words: The End Game is where it is at for most and STO's utter destruction of all things Canon and Immersive makes the relation of the Story-Line missions and the overall plot in STO irrelevant.
Comments
Actually I got my character to Vice Admiral because I played the story missions primarily. In addition to that I've done a fair bit of the DOFF missions and a few of the "borg dailies". I have yet to engage in any of the Foundary content (that's next on my list). I haven't yet considered any PVP.
I admit that there are only loose ties to cannon. And it is fair to say that some of the playable options in game are limited (destroy or disable, thats it?). But i am amazed that after two months, a level 48 Rear Admiral, a few PvP, PvE and STF missions at a decent albeit biased success rate, i still enjoy the episodes and truly feel like i am going where no one has gone before.
I did notice that we are at war but there is little structure or explanation. But i imagine that if this has happened a while back 'in game' then there was little opportunity to explain it. But if you can slingshot around a hidden Section 31 sun and stop the Devidians from altering the past, or help Scotty make a drink for a frazzled shipmate then there must be a way to explore a 'how it all began' story line.
There haven't really been any removals of storyline missions or major changes in the game universe that advance the story; if you'd been here since launch you would have gotten the same explanations (or lack thereof) for ingame events.
The stuff you mention regarding the Devidians and time travel was added well after launch, as were all the Featured Episode series, but nothing's really been removed. A couple of missions have been majorly changed, but those changes have been to improve their function, not remove their story.
Yeah.
The only backstory given is via the website or the random datachips at the Academy, aside from some sporadically laced in missions, and Spock's voiceover in Sector Space, which I guess you'd miss with the audio off.
I think they need to seriously look at a new trailer that covers what the heck is going on and, well... What Star Trek IS and WAS.
They didn't have art on all the uniforms at launch but they do now.
I think the ideal would be to open with WWIII, show as much of First Contact as likeness will allow for, show Enterprise-era and the NX01, show TOS, show WoK era, show TNG, amd show the Dominion War. With captions like "40 Years Ago," "120 Years Ago," etc.
A lot of people may have only seen one or two of the shows. Having it all laid out in context is a must, IMHO. It's a win for people who know it, like covering their favorite song. It's a need for people who don't.
This is what the Path to 2409 was supposed to be, but with only one writer, they have to prioritize. Kestrel's not sitting around at work surfing the web waiting for opportunities to write something; they've got her working.
Hopefully they'll get her some help in this new hiring surge, and let her concentrate on writing the "bible" and let the new folks take over some of the content writing. We've all been in that same position more than once in our careers; where you don't have time to stop and write documentation so that other people can take over part of your duties and give you time to write documentation.
Well, one of my issues isn't the volume or quality of writing. It's that the writing is ghettoized, off in the corner.
The basic gist of it is: The Klingons start invading worlds because they are aware of high level Undine shapeshifter infiltration at high levels of government in their neighbors. Of course they start invading their neighbors to purge the Undine threat. The Federation doesn't buy it and censures them, or something to that effect. The Klingons, true to their nature, say F you and your treaty, we don't want/need your approval, and war soon follows. The Feds seem aware of the Undine, but are either not as commited as the Klingons, or at least not willing to invade to get the Undine out.
At least I think that's what is going on, I'm almost sure that's it, I think.
I do plan on doing more storyline missions.
I play story missions almost exclusively. I do my 1/day mining, and Officer Reports, maybe a STF with the Fleet, but most of my time on the game is dedicated to running Story Missions. Like you I find myself often doing so without any other Players, but stuck with my BOFFs and devolping the story and attitude of my Caitian from those stories.
As an avid RPer outside the game, I am struggling to find a decent group to RP with especially since for some reason when I see a friend log on, and send a tell, I often don't get a response. The default scroll of the chat sees to that, if someone is in combat, or lots of folk are talking in zone or local, my tell gets lost amidst the tide...
As it stands I end up with solo content 4/5 of the time, simply due to that fact alone...
And i have the same problem as well, looking for more RP'ers myself to hang with or do missions with!
Wow, I want to play this Star Trek game!
In a word....yes. Sadly yes. The MMO game world is primarily comprised of 12 year olds and/or intellectual 12 year olds who are more concerned with the size of their epeen and how hard they can smack another play with it than any storyline content written by anyone. Sadly they could have teamed Robert Heinlein <someone I doubt more than 5% of the people reading this will know about> and Ray Bradbury <again same comment> together with Gene Roddenberry to write all of the storyline content of this game and I still doubt that more than 10% of the player base would be interested in the missions. Not because they arn't good, well thought out, integrated missions with good stories to keep you interested in what's going to happen next, but primarily because as I said most of the player base for MMO's is people who want to know their epeen is bigger than most everyone elses so they can beat everyone up with it till everyone gets the same gear they have and they realize they need even BETTER gear to be uber again so they go on the forums and whine and cry about it loudly to everyone they know that the devs are idiots/morons/couldent program squat because their isnt a new more powerful item/weapon for them to be better than other players with.
This is tragically the case of most MMO's today. Both F2P and Sub based, although the sub based ones are getting few and far between. I play and have been playing MMO's since Ultima Online came out and that player group has always been there, but only in the last few years has it become considered a majority primarily because they are the most vocal in forums about how bad the game sucks because some new items don't come out every week to satisfy their need for a bigger epeen than anyone else.
I'm sure Cryptic could provide some good data about total player base vs how many have played thru the storyline missions and I SINCERELY hope it's a larger percentage than has not, especially since you can get some pretty decent stuff from the missions, and from repeating the missions, until you suffer yourself to the STF grind to get the game uber gear not because you want to kill everyone in sight, but just because it's game content you havent done yet.
I fear sadly though from your comments about people you've talked to, and from Stahl's comments that this may not be the case, and that those of us who appreciate the game on a level other than who/what we can kill next and how easily we can kill it, are part of a dying breed left to stutter thru whatever new story content is offered until the game gets so end-game/combat focused that we finally get sick of playing and leave for the next new game that will probably START with good storyline and missions, but will ultimately get reduced to the same sad combat/epeen game every other one seems to be sliding into because of corporate greed and the need for marketers to tell programmers what they should program instead of letting them program what looks like is needed in the game to make the game a better place......
Feel free to flame away. I've been at this a long time in several games and no mater how much you love to hate my point of view if you even have 2 brain cells to rub together you know it's correct. I really wish it wasn't, honestly I do.
After reading all the posts in here and especially noting yours, I have to say that I most generally agree with your pov as far as gaming and MMO's in general and the state of MMO's espoused by others who are considered experts in the industry.
What I have to ask though to you and anyone else who is more knowledgeable than "Where is my next new PEW PEW TOY!!!! WAAAAAAHHHH" is, Where is the way forward?
I think anyone with even a passing knowledge of economics and how these games are run/programmed knows that creating new story content is FAR more cost and time consuming than simply dropping in some shiny new toys for the PEW PEW crowd. So do we take the long view of general consensus, our OP of this thread, and Stahl's comments that perhaps storytelling in MMO's is a dying idea? Or should we take the info that there are more people being hired to write story content as a possible sign that all hope is not lost?
Belive me I fully understand these games first and foremost need to make money to survive and keep being programmed for new content and fixes of old issues. But at what point does the game simply become a cash grab to give temporary instant gratification to the end-gamers while the rest of us who actually LIKE and APPRECIATE the effort that is put into story missions fade into the sunset dust?
All the important parts of STO are in the end-game for most people. That has been true for a long time. The problem with the story-line missions is that while they are great EXP they are otherwise unimportant. Nothing you do changes anything in the actual story of STO. That would require STO to be a serious Sandbox style MMO and it is anything BUT that.
I have 6 characters at lvl 50 and while I have done the storyline missions for both sides (what few exist for the KDF) I have never really bothered to sit down and really read what I was doing very thoroughly. I do appreciate the FE's in particular and I LOVED and payed attention to the KDF Gre'thor story arc. Besides that I have a hard time feeling "immersed" in the Star Trek universe when the combat feels nothing like Trek, the missions are all "Shoot everything that moves!" and the Federation is allowing folks to fly around in Tholian, Ferengie, Cardassian, and Jem'hadar ships that break with Canon power levels all over the place. Also there are the STF's which have no real place in the storyline and extreme inconsistency with the Borg.
In simpler words: The End Game is where it is at for most and STO's utter destruction of all things Canon and Immersive makes the relation of the Story-Line missions and the overall plot in STO irrelevant.