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Amended Leaver's Penaty Proposal
apolloserenus
Member Posts: 64 Arc User
UPDATED: Sept. 26, 2012
After reading the various threads, I feel a revamp of the entire system is needed, one that is based on stackable infractions, suspensions, and expulsions that expire over time.
__________________________________________________________________________
Numerical Breakdowns:
Infractions (character-specific)
1 - one-half hour STF or Fleet Mark que lockout (simultaneous with cool down)
2 - one hour STF or Fleet Mark que lockout (followed by cool down)
3 - one and one-half hours
4 - two hours
5 - two and one-half hours
6 - three hours
7 - three and one-half hours
8 - four hours
9 - four and one-half hours
10 - Suspension
Suspensions
1 - twenty-four hour Character lockout from STO or Fleet Mark que
2 - forty-eight hour Character lockout from STO or Fleet Mark que
3 - seventy-two hour Character lockout from STO or Fleet Mark que
4 - ninty-six hour Character lockout from STO or Fleet Mark que
5 - PVE que expulsion
Expulsions (Updated on Sept 26th)
1 - ten day Account lockout from entire PVE que
2 - twenty day Account lockout from entire PVE que
3 - thirty day Account lockout from entire PVE que
4 - forty day Account lockout from entire PVE que
5 - fifty day Account lockout from entire PVE que
6 - sixty day Account lockout from entire PVE que
etc...
Equivalence
10 Infractions = 1 Suspension
5 Suspensions = 1 Expulsion
__________________________________________________________________________
Explanation Breakdown :
Infractions remain on a character's record for 5 days (120 hours) after being entered into the record.
Suspensions remain on a character's record for 1 months (30 days) after being entered into the record.
Expulsions remain on a character's record for 12 months (365 days) after being entered into the record.
Infractions shall be issued in the following manner:
~First of Five to leave via pressing the "Leave System" or "Exit" buttons earns 2 infractions.
~Second of Five to leave via pressing the "Leave System" or "Exit" buttons earns 1 infraction.
~Third, Forth, and Fifth to leave earns no infractions.
Reasons behind the above numbers:
~The First person to leave puts the team at a disadvantage; however, the current "Join Any Game" que method could bring a new player into the match. Also, it is fully possible to finish an STF or Fleet Mark mission with only 4 people if tactics are properly changed up.
~The Second person to leave should be punished for not waiting for a replacement member, however, if after 7 minutes of no replacement, no person shall be punished for leaving.
~When 3 players remain with not a single replacement being brought into the match after 5 minutes, no player shall be punished for deciding the mission objectives cannot be met.
How the system would work, in the instance that someone was trying to get suspended and did not waste a minute:
http://imageshack.us/a/img515/926/penalty1.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img515/8016/penalty2.png
13 days is the shortest time to earn a 1st expulsion.
Followed by 28 days to earn a 2nd expulsion.
~71 days for a 3rd.
~129 days for a 4th.
~202 days for deletion of character.
__________________________________________________________________________
Implementation of this system would require a place within the HUD where one can view the number of infractions, suspensions, and expulsions one has, as well as how much time is remains until the oldest until removal.
__________________________________________________________________________
AFK and Cowardice
In regards to Cowardice (not logging any damage given or received) and AFK; if a person is AFK or is displaying Cowardice for 5 minutes, pause the instance and bring up a pop-up. This pop up would define Cowardice and AFK in simple terms.
Included in the text must be a clear statement that makes it clear that players who announce AFK are not to be kicked. At the bottom are two buttons: [Remove From Team] and [Do Nothing]. "Removal From Team" will kick the player from the mission. "Do Nothing" is exactly as it implies, keeps the player in the mission. A majority vote of at least 66% is needed to remove a player from the team.
Upon being kicked, a player shall receive the following:
~A single infraction.
~A log of ALL chat within the mission covering the 7 minutes leading up to the kick.
~A log of the final minute of Combat (Self) information.
If a the chat log show a player has been unjustly kicked, a ticket can be submitted with either or both of the two logs. If it is determined that a player was indeed unjustly kicked that player shall have the lockout immediately lifted and receive one of the following:
~2 Encrypted Data Chips if kicked from a Normal STF
~1 Common Borg Salvage if kicked from a Normal STF
~3 Encrypted Data Chips if kicked from an Elite STF
~1 Rare Borg Salvage if kicked from an Elite STF
~15 Fleet Marks if kicked from a Fleet mark mission.
The kickers who unjustly kicked, will receive 3 infractions. __________________________________________________________________________
Right to Leave
Upon reaching the boss chamber of an STF, a counter is activated for each player. This counter is to count the number of deaths wile fighting the boss. Once the counter has reached 3 for each player, the option to leave without penalty is opened for all players in the mission.
__________________________________________________________________________
Side notes:
It has been pointed out that many veteran STF'ers are after the optional accolades. They feel it is unfair to be sent into a mission that has already lost the Optional and be unable to hop out without penalty so as not to waste their time. To alleviate this, the best option would be to add "Join Any Game" or "Join New Game" options in the PVE que, as is seen in the PVP que.
Leaving because the optional failed should not be a valid option because if the team of five, or even four, is still present the primary objectives are still achievable. The only thing lost is the Optional loot bag. To leave because the optional has failed puts the rest of the team left behind in the mission at a disadvantage and risk of having their time wasted. Selfishness is no reason to avoid a penalty.
__________________________________________________________________________
Needs further work:
Disconnect detection
Lag Spike detection
__________________________________________________________________________
On a personal note: I do realize some players may inadvertently be given an infraction. No system is perfect. I know I'll earn a few if this is implemented. But this proposal is to focus on the players who regularly TRIBBLE over other players. The players who are decent and respect their fellow players will never earn enough infractions to even reach a suspension much less an expulsion. So, the final two punishments, "Character deletion" and "Account removal" should never be a concern for the respectful player.
Plus, this is a first round proposal. Discussion of concerns will lead to tweaking and improvements. I'm looking for constructive criticism. If you have an issue with a certain part, what's the issue? How would you deal with it? If you don't know a solution, list the concern and that you aren't sure how to address it.
After reading the various threads, I feel a revamp of the entire system is needed, one that is based on stackable infractions, suspensions, and expulsions that expire over time.
__________________________________________________________________________
Numerical Breakdowns:
Infractions (character-specific)
1 - one-half hour STF or Fleet Mark que lockout (simultaneous with cool down)
2 - one hour STF or Fleet Mark que lockout (followed by cool down)
3 - one and one-half hours
4 - two hours
5 - two and one-half hours
6 - three hours
7 - three and one-half hours
8 - four hours
9 - four and one-half hours
10 - Suspension
Suspensions
1 - twenty-four hour Character lockout from STO or Fleet Mark que
2 - forty-eight hour Character lockout from STO or Fleet Mark que
3 - seventy-two hour Character lockout from STO or Fleet Mark que
4 - ninty-six hour Character lockout from STO or Fleet Mark que
5 - PVE que expulsion
Expulsions (Updated on Sept 26th)
1 - ten day Account lockout from entire PVE que
2 - twenty day Account lockout from entire PVE que
3 - thirty day Account lockout from entire PVE que
4 - forty day Account lockout from entire PVE que
5 - fifty day Account lockout from entire PVE que
6 - sixty day Account lockout from entire PVE que
etc...
Equivalence
10 Infractions = 1 Suspension
5 Suspensions = 1 Expulsion
__________________________________________________________________________
Explanation Breakdown :
Infractions remain on a character's record for 5 days (120 hours) after being entered into the record.
Suspensions remain on a character's record for 1 months (30 days) after being entered into the record.
Expulsions remain on a character's record for 12 months (365 days) after being entered into the record.
Infractions shall be issued in the following manner:
~First of Five to leave via pressing the "Leave System" or "Exit" buttons earns 2 infractions.
~Second of Five to leave via pressing the "Leave System" or "Exit" buttons earns 1 infraction.
~Third, Forth, and Fifth to leave earns no infractions.
Reasons behind the above numbers:
~The First person to leave puts the team at a disadvantage; however, the current "Join Any Game" que method could bring a new player into the match. Also, it is fully possible to finish an STF or Fleet Mark mission with only 4 people if tactics are properly changed up.
~The Second person to leave should be punished for not waiting for a replacement member, however, if after 7 minutes of no replacement, no person shall be punished for leaving.
~When 3 players remain with not a single replacement being brought into the match after 5 minutes, no player shall be punished for deciding the mission objectives cannot be met.
How the system would work, in the instance that someone was trying to get suspended and did not waste a minute:
http://imageshack.us/a/img515/926/penalty1.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img515/8016/penalty2.png
13 days is the shortest time to earn a 1st expulsion.
Followed by 28 days to earn a 2nd expulsion.
~71 days for a 3rd.
~129 days for a 4th.
~202 days for deletion of character.
__________________________________________________________________________
Implementation of this system would require a place within the HUD where one can view the number of infractions, suspensions, and expulsions one has, as well as how much time is remains until the oldest until removal.
__________________________________________________________________________
AFK and Cowardice
In regards to Cowardice (not logging any damage given or received) and AFK; if a person is AFK or is displaying Cowardice for 5 minutes, pause the instance and bring up a pop-up. This pop up would define Cowardice and AFK in simple terms.
Included in the text must be a clear statement that makes it clear that players who announce AFK are not to be kicked. At the bottom are two buttons: [Remove From Team] and [Do Nothing]. "Removal From Team" will kick the player from the mission. "Do Nothing" is exactly as it implies, keeps the player in the mission. A majority vote of at least 66% is needed to remove a player from the team.
Upon being kicked, a player shall receive the following:
~A single infraction.
~A log of ALL chat within the mission covering the 7 minutes leading up to the kick.
~A log of the final minute of Combat (Self) information.
If a the chat log show a player has been unjustly kicked, a ticket can be submitted with either or both of the two logs. If it is determined that a player was indeed unjustly kicked that player shall have the lockout immediately lifted and receive one of the following:
~2 Encrypted Data Chips if kicked from a Normal STF
~1 Common Borg Salvage if kicked from a Normal STF
~3 Encrypted Data Chips if kicked from an Elite STF
~1 Rare Borg Salvage if kicked from an Elite STF
~15 Fleet Marks if kicked from a Fleet mark mission.
The kickers who unjustly kicked, will receive 3 infractions. __________________________________________________________________________
Right to Leave
Upon reaching the boss chamber of an STF, a counter is activated for each player. This counter is to count the number of deaths wile fighting the boss. Once the counter has reached 3 for each player, the option to leave without penalty is opened for all players in the mission.
__________________________________________________________________________
Side notes:
It has been pointed out that many veteran STF'ers are after the optional accolades. They feel it is unfair to be sent into a mission that has already lost the Optional and be unable to hop out without penalty so as not to waste their time. To alleviate this, the best option would be to add "Join Any Game" or "Join New Game" options in the PVE que, as is seen in the PVP que.
Leaving because the optional failed should not be a valid option because if the team of five, or even four, is still present the primary objectives are still achievable. The only thing lost is the Optional loot bag. To leave because the optional has failed puts the rest of the team left behind in the mission at a disadvantage and risk of having their time wasted. Selfishness is no reason to avoid a penalty.
__________________________________________________________________________
Needs further work:
Disconnect detection
Lag Spike detection
__________________________________________________________________________
On a personal note: I do realize some players may inadvertently be given an infraction. No system is perfect. I know I'll earn a few if this is implemented. But this proposal is to focus on the players who regularly TRIBBLE over other players. The players who are decent and respect their fellow players will never earn enough infractions to even reach a suspension much less an expulsion. So, the final two punishments, "Character deletion" and "Account removal" should never be a concern for the respectful player.
Plus, this is a first round proposal. Discussion of concerns will lead to tweaking and improvements. I'm looking for constructive criticism. If you have an issue with a certain part, what's the issue? How would you deal with it? If you don't know a solution, list the concern and that you aren't sure how to address it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by apolloserenus on
0
Comments
Nope 100% against that. The problems with this kind of system, what happens to those that actually get disconnected from the game by no fault of their own? What if it happens more than once in a month time frame? Should they get the stacked penalty? Because there is no way PWE could actually prove they didn't just "disconnect" to get out of the STF (as a disconnect is a disconnect).
I get that the STF Leaver penalty sucks but that's why you can do private queues, there is quite a few channels for getting teams together and what have you.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Why don't more people understand that? Private queue if you want to avoid PUGs.
I have added provisions to deal with that. I'll also be adding provisions to deal with AFK.
Yes, to earn a character deletion, one must accumulate at total of 250 infractions within the given time frames. I made sure to NOT make the time frames overly long, but to still make them slightly sting.
I'm not evil by proposing that the infractions are permanent. They will drop off. If you earn 10 infractions, that 10th infraction becomes 1 Suspension and you start back at 0 infractions. Earn 5 Suspensions, the fifth becomes an Expulsion and you are back at 0 Suspensions.
Most importantly though, regardless of if you have 1 infraction or 9, after 17.5 days that oldest infraction goes away. Suspensions disappear after 120 days. Expulsions disappear after 16 months.
Good behavior will clear your record before any serious penalties kick in.
I agree with this ^ 100%, couldn't had said it better myself. Don't forget Cryptic's servers disconnect a lot of people, it's something they really need to fix. As well as throwing everyone into an already maxed out instance rather than trying to equal the number of players in all instances.
Returning to a match will negate the infraction.
What if the match is right on finishing when you disconnect, you need to reboot or something and by the time you get back in it's all over?
I have been here since beta.........There is no need for the totalitarian penalty proposal.
STF's are full of players who ruin oit for others by things other then just leaving.
Are you next going to impose a penalty for any player who does not heal his ships/body damage.
What about an auto boot for a player who does not move his ship and or does no signifigant damage to a mob
What about players who are on opposite sides of the map from the team and trying to kill a cube on ELITE INF when the other group is on the other side?
I do many stf's...I do not care if i get the optionals.......What I do care about is finishing it.......Much of my dilemmas come from people who are a detriment to the point that they ruin the stf for the team......you would protect these players...the lousy ones
IMO you are pandering to the minority who feel hurt that people leave stfs and "HOW DARE" they leave me high and dry in an stf....
In reality the less restraints there are in STFS the better off we will be......
Yes. Should be even a notch rougher, banning from creating a new one.
+1 to the OP - no care-bearing.
I'd vote "yes" for such.
Lifetime ban from the game.
It was so pre-F2P, but now we've got this flood of monkey-brains who need to be taught manners - they need reins ... anarchic/lawless approach doesn't function.
This is not a good idea. I am with adabisi, turn down or get rid of the leaver penalty for STF; at least in elite. This is supposed to be fun. It is not fun if you get into an elite match with a T4 rainbow boat who doesn't want to play as a team or can't kill a probe before it gets to the gate in KA. It is not fun having to clean up all of the spam resulting from people who can't stop shooting at generators when they get to 10% on Infected or work on one set of probes at a time in Cure. It may be a public match, but common decency should govern. If you can't be a help, or at least not a hinderance to the team, stay in normal difficulty. If you join a public elite match and mess it up due to careless gameplay, expect the public to give you an earful.
To many ways to go around this.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Fair point on that issue. I'm not sure what should be done about that issue, especially for a full system reboot (since I know some systems can take up to 5 minutes from shut down tthrough the boot up to usable).
This is not totalitarian. There are time-based triggers put in place to remove infractions, suspensions, and expulsions from a person's characters and accounts.
There are also time-based triggers, that when met, will allow people to leave infraction-free when there are 3 or 4 players left in a match.
A totalitarian system would have no-such triggers.
Agreed, inexperience is a big issue. This proposal is not meant to deal with the lack of training from veterans to rookies.
No. But perhaps a limit on how many injuries a ship or toon can have before enetering could be imposed.
There is a paragraph that deals with that in my proposal. It was added in my last edit at 9:58PM.
That's for the people who know to teach the people who don't. Teaching others will improve the whole STF experience. I know I needed some good lessons when I started.
No system will catch all the cheaters. Also, there will be no system that doesn't punish any innocents. But, to down a proposal that attempts to address the some of majors flaws with the current system seems slightly illogical. Why do we need a perfect proposal before changes can start to be made?
Again if the internet disconnects there won't be a ping going to any server not even PWE's. No program would be able to diagnose that. Home computers don't have redundant internet connections like most data centers do so it'd still be the same response :P
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
I have never been booted for another downed internet connection. When I'm on STO, I'm usually also on TeamSpeak 3, and so long as I can still talk over TS3, my internet connection is fine. Also, there is no discernible difference in the number of server boots while on TS3 or not.
Askray, since you believe the disconnects will cause undue amounts of inconvenience or harm to innocent players, how would you modify the numbers I have proposed?
Keep in mind there still needs to be a sting to those who this system meant to target.
Also, I will run the numbers in a calendar program to find the shortest amount of time required to a character deletion. Look for that within 2 hours.
Too a lot of stuff i say no no.
We all ready have too much of an issue as is they just need to fix the things that are broken or get broken right now.
8 minutes (including those 60+120 second extensions) can be long enough for an STF or Fleet event to finish or fail. You won't get rid of the leechers that way, which, in my opinion should be a prime requirement before implementing any harsher leaver penalties.
Also your way of identifying an afk-leecher is way to simple. You don't even have to be able to program to get your ship or character to make or take damage in most STF/fleet events. Two toothpicks would probably suffice in most cases.
Other than that, the system is way, way to complicated and prone to bugs.
Admittedly the after-post solution to AFK players, would have issues. How would you handle the AFK players and leachers in an unbiased way?
I followed up the links by adding some extrapolated numbers showing the shorted length of time needed to earn a character deletion.
Dont be silly.
A much better system is to simply adjust the penalty for leaving and for being afk.
If you are the FIRST person to leave then you get account-wide ban from any public Queue for one hour. That prevents the griefers that leave and log on to alt toons in the same account. Remaining players do not get this penalty.
If you are in a public queue and you enter AFK status (which should be 5 mins no activity) it automatically kicks you out and bans you from public queue for that toon for a period of six hours. This fixes the afk-loot-grabbers-at-the-end and rids the team of a wasted slot.
Enable a 'KICK' vote system where players in team can kick a member out.
Simple as that.
"'KICK' voting", bad idea. Allowing users to initiate a vote to kick a player will be abused. People who first start off playing the STF's will get kicked becuase they don't have any or much STF gear. Kicking them because of ineffectiveness will never let them get the good gear. Nor will it let them learn the tactics.
A voting system for AFK or Cowardice/Leeching could be put in place. This would allow for players to kick other players for either not moving or not attacking/taking damage. However, it would allow for people who enter matches with friends with better gear and are told to "stay here and stay out of the fight" to get the loot and experience to stay in the match.
That's probably one of the most discussed questions on this forum, and personally I've seen no real answer that would be better than the current system.
With every solution I've read about, let it be kicks, account-wide penalties, auto-afk etc...there has always been a way to either abuse or get around it, which makes other options worse than the ones we have so far.
But seeing how things sometimes seem to have a life of their own in this game, it would only be a matter of time until people who haven't done anything wrong will mount up infractions. I've recieved penalties in this game for disconnects, "map not found bug" when zoning in, leaving after the STF is done and leaving the queue before the "enter" window popped up. It's not unlikely to mount up 5 of those in 2,5 weeks worth of time if they're account-wide and if you're playing a lot of PVE.
Thanks, it's something I don't envy Cryptic about, so many solutions with so many possibilities for misuse or abuse, whether intentional or not.
I support your ideas, (except what is bold below).
I think they need refining, but are heading in generally the right direction.
Account suspension or deletion will never work. We all must remember Cryptic is a company and even bad social behavioured players still pay the money. Suspend their account, and all sort of trouble occurs, some as little as not playing the game anymore to lifetimers and gold sub's looking at legal action as they can't access what they paid for.
Even the fifteen day (or less) account suspension holds large dangers of customers wandering off. If I'd gotten a 2-week account suspension for whatever reason, chances would be very, very high that some other game would have sparked my attention in that time and that I probably wouldn't return.
I would hope that if some convoluted system were to go into effect that it apply to public matches only, not private ones as well. If a group wants to play together by a loose set of rules that is their business.
Suspensions dont work and wont happen. When I mean account ban I mean account-wide penalty from the queues....not that their account gets cancelled or warned or anything. Quite simply, if you are the first person to quit in an STF all your toons in the account get the leaver penalty.
Kick voting is crucial. It is not a matter of gear.. you can do elite STFs using white quality mk 10 equipment.
Tactics IS the problem. There is a significant difference between a new guy to stfs that doesnt want to learn and a player that doesnt listen to the team. For example, 10% rule in infected space elite...it is told to the team in no unclear terms at map start. The guy goes and blows the generator first thing. Then at the second transformer he does it again.
At that point it is clear the player is not reading or doesn't care. At that point that player is literally sabotaging the efforts of the team and will be rewarded in the end for doing so.
A kick vote will enable the team to knock that player off the team before he can continue sabotaging the team effort. I assure you that after being kicked a few times and not getting any rewards the griefer stops doing it (so he can get loot) and the clueless new guy that doesnt read will start wondering wth this is about and see whats going on in the chat window.
I've yet to meet a truly 'new guy' to elite STFs that is unwilling to listen and learn how to win. They want loot and they want to win. Those I dont mind at all if they make a mistake. Those that obviously just dont give a TRIBBLE about optional and simply kill everything to get the 1100 dilithium at the end as quickly as possible I do have a problem with. I want to be able to kick them out ...with the consensus of the other team-mates.
That's why I posted the proposal, to discuss the idea, both, as a whole and the componants.
With the shortest amount of time to rack up 10 infractions, by leaving first 5 times, 10 hours. Perhaps 2.5 weeks IS too long.
Does 4 days (60 hours) seem like a better length to have infractions disappear?
That would certainly seem give the griefers and leechers plenty of time to rack up the infractions yet allow the respectful players the ability to shed any infractions that were handed out due to glitches.
I'm not suggesting that a Suspension ban suspend use of a character of the Expulsion ban suspend access to one's account. What I am suggesting is no different than the current Leaver's Penalty: inability to access a certain part of the PVE que.
I want to be very clear:
~While under a suspension, the ONLY part of gameplay affected is access to STF missions and/or Fleet Mark missions (depending in which missions the offending acctions occured in).
~While under an expulsion, the ONLY part of gameplay affected is access to the PVE que.