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Capital Beam Bank
kamiyama317
Member Posts: 1,295 Arc User
I have seen this suggested in another thread, and I think its such a good idea that it deserves a whole thread of its own.
I think we should have a new type of beam weapon. As it is, we have 4 types of cannon (turret, single cannon, dual cannon, dual heavy cannon) and two types of beams (beam array, dual beam bank). I think a third type of beam weapon would be welcome as long as it is properly balanced.
First, lets compare the Dual Beam Bank to the Single and Dual Heavy Cannon in terms of damage:
Mark XII common Dual Phaser Beam Bank
DPV: 287
DPS: 229
ROF: 1.25 seconds
90 degree firing arc
Mark XII common Phaser Cannon
DPV: 159
DPS: 212
ROF: 0.75 seconds
180 degree firing arc
Mark XII common Phaser Dual Heavy Cannon
DPV: 384
DPS: 256
ROF: 1.5 seconds
45 degree firing arc
So keeping all of the above in mind, I think a Capital Beam Bank should have a very high DPV, a very narrow firing arc, however should have lower DPS than a single cannon. DPS should remain the role of escorts, and as a beam weapon I think this would work great on a Science Ship, which would have the turn rate to use it.
My suggested stats for the Capital Beam are as follows:
Mark XII common Capital Phaser Beam Bank
DPV: 1164
DPS: 194
ROF: 6 seconds
15 degree firing arc
Capital Beam Banks would function similar to Tricobalt Devices. They have a very high DPV, should only appear starting at Mark X, and fulfill a specialize role (waiting for use with a Beam Overload on the enemies exposed hull).
I think the DPS is just right - more than a Dual Beam Bank, Less than a Single Cannon. But I wasn't sure what the ROF should be. I chose 6 seconds, but I could go with as as low as 5, as much as 12.
They should drain dramatically more weapon power than other weapons to compensate for their high damage and slow rate of fire. Like -20 or -30 weapons power would be ideal. Maybe even a small drop in shield power when fired would be a good idea.
Ideally you would only fit 1 for use with BO. If you fit too many your weapons power would drop to nothing.
I would appreciate any feedback. Let me know what you think.
*EDIT: For some reason I had the wrong numbers for the dual beam bank. It actually does more DPS than a single cannon. I would now suggest that the Capital Beam do somewhere between a dual beam and dual cannon in regards to DPS.
I think we should have a new type of beam weapon. As it is, we have 4 types of cannon (turret, single cannon, dual cannon, dual heavy cannon) and two types of beams (beam array, dual beam bank). I think a third type of beam weapon would be welcome as long as it is properly balanced.
First, lets compare the Dual Beam Bank to the Single and Dual Heavy Cannon in terms of damage:
Mark XII common Dual Phaser Beam Bank
DPV: 287
DPS: 229
ROF: 1.25 seconds
90 degree firing arc
Mark XII common Phaser Cannon
DPV: 159
DPS: 212
ROF: 0.75 seconds
180 degree firing arc
Mark XII common Phaser Dual Heavy Cannon
DPV: 384
DPS: 256
ROF: 1.5 seconds
45 degree firing arc
So keeping all of the above in mind, I think a Capital Beam Bank should have a very high DPV, a very narrow firing arc, however should have lower DPS than a single cannon. DPS should remain the role of escorts, and as a beam weapon I think this would work great on a Science Ship, which would have the turn rate to use it.
My suggested stats for the Capital Beam are as follows:
Mark XII common Capital Phaser Beam Bank
DPV: 1164
DPS: 194
ROF: 6 seconds
15 degree firing arc
Capital Beam Banks would function similar to Tricobalt Devices. They have a very high DPV, should only appear starting at Mark X, and fulfill a specialize role (waiting for use with a Beam Overload on the enemies exposed hull).
I think the DPS is just right - more than a Dual Beam Bank, Less than a Single Cannon. But I wasn't sure what the ROF should be. I chose 6 seconds, but I could go with as as low as 5, as much as 12.
They should drain dramatically more weapon power than other weapons to compensate for their high damage and slow rate of fire. Like -20 or -30 weapons power would be ideal. Maybe even a small drop in shield power when fired would be a good idea.
Ideally you would only fit 1 for use with BO. If you fit too many your weapons power would drop to nothing.
I would appreciate any feedback. Let me know what you think.
*EDIT: For some reason I had the wrong numbers for the dual beam bank. It actually does more DPS than a single cannon. I would now suggest that the Capital Beam do somewhere between a dual beam and dual cannon in regards to DPS.
Post edited by kamiyama317 on
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Comments
Load into an Escort.
Pop all Tac Cooldowns and APO.
Pop Beam Overload.
Deal > 100k damage in one shot.
... and you really think that's a good idea?
Hint: I don't.
If you read my post I suggested it would be nice for science ships. Who says only cruisers use beams? Science ships can't use dual cannons either.
To begin with, what he proposes is literally the Fed Dreadnaught Lance phaser.
Which is why it will never happen. Such a weapon would make that ship pointless to purchase.
However, there is a niche in which his concept can be applied by using existing game weapons.
Add a new set of BOFF ability for beam attacks:
Particle Stream- Firing mode adds particle damage to the beams. Effect on target is lessened damage to shields but higher damage to hull. For example, right now beams do equal damage to hulls and to shields.. with particle stream the beam will do 30% less damage to shields and 30% extra damage to hulls.
Aka,
Now = 100 damage to hull or shield
Particle Stream= 70 dmg to shield, 130 dmg to hull.
Continuous Beam - This beam mode slowly drains the ship's weapon power as it maintains a constant beam attack on target. Similar in visual to the borg cutting beam or tachyon beam.
When using this firing mode, all other ship energy weapons are disabled so only one beam weapon is active firing this.
When using this firing mode, beam power cost is reduced by 50%.
When using this firing mode the beam will continue firing until ship weapon power reaches 25.
Beam damage increases 2% per second for as long as it remains active.. countered by the loss of damage from the lowering power level. This would make this ability extremely good when combined with emg to weapons, a weapon battery, power stealing abilities or engineer capt power manipulation abilities.
Re-use timer is 1 minute (not 30 seconds like other beam attacks).
This would be closest to a 'capital ship' beam attack. Escorts would not benefit that much from this ability as it takes TIME to build up its damage and power manipulation to keep feeding power to it. Cruisers and science ships oth gain a rather good damage ability.
Rotating Frequency Pulse- The opposite of particle stream, the rotating frequency pulse mode grants 30% bonus damage to shields and 30% dmg penalty to hull.
Escorts already do absurd damage with everything. But that's what escorts are supposed to do. This weapon has lower DPS than a single cannon, so I don't see how it would be any more overpowered than anything else they could stick on their ship.
It's pointless to purchase right now because I just don't fly cruisers. I refuse.
If they made the lance a universal console... I might actually shell out 2500 ZEN just to get the lance.
But to be honest, I would rather them add Capital Beams that come in every different energy type
*EDIT: Can you even use BO with the lance? If not, the Dreadnought would be completely useless even with a universal lance.
So thats the first point why your suggestion needs rethinking to be anywhere near balanced.
The lance can't be a console for multiple ships, that would make no sense in terms of canon or gameplay...what it would mean is, that you have a beam overload disguised as a console.
If you consider it for science ships, you make 2 mistakes at the same time. first they are not meant for hard hitting phasers (no tactical consoles to support more base dmg)...they don't need those...they need aux power and abilities.
second 15 degree arc even on the fastest turning sci vessel is a waste.
so the other users already pointed out the obvious flaws of your design, you can't just ignore those...they are valid points of critique.
you do know that escort also use beam overload in certain cases? i mean i do, with very much success.
Yes DPV is damage per volley. Yes the Capital Beam would do high damage per volley. It wouldn't do 100k damage per volley. The Beam I suggested would do 1164 damage, with a Beam Overload 1 would do 6984 damage. This of course doesn't take into consideration weapons power, skills, or other abilities.
High DPV doesn't make something OP. If that were the case, tricobalts would be OP. You just need to make sure its DPS is balanced with other weapons. This particular weapon has lower DPS than a single cannon.
I haven't made any mention about the lance, nor does this thread concern it. I am suggesting a new beam weapon type.
Science Ships do in fact need good weapons, particularly high DPV ones. You can't kill an enemy with science abilites (at least, not anymore) however you can strip shields off with some sci abilities, meaning a well-timed high damage shot works great on a science vessel.
You obviously have never flown a sci vessel. My Recon Science has a turning arc over 30 degrees. I can keep up with most escorts. When you throw tractor beams or gravity wells into the mix, there is no ship in the game that I could not hit, even if I had a weapon with a 1 degree firing arc.
I actually haven't read a single valid counter-argument yet. I have seen knee-jerk reactions about how escorts will be OP. I would actually like to see a tac captain comment on this, and see if he would be willing to take a weapon with a 15 degree firing arc, that has less base DPS than a single cannon.
Yes, that would be the whole point of using one of these.
It would definitely crit for 100k+. I use a dual beam bank on my tac, and with beam overload it routinely hits for 10K+ and crits for 25k+. with the capital beam bank doing a bit over 5x base damage per volley, this would become 50k+ for non-crits with the potential to crit for 125k+. If this were foolishly implemented, I would definitely take this on my tac raptor. You only need to have your target in the 15 degree arc long enough for it to fire once, not a problem for any escort. This would be incredibly OP and I hope it is never implemented
TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz-
Svarog | Veles | et al.
Perhaps 500-600 something DPV would be better, and the ROF lessened to 3 secs instead. That'd be more in line with this proposed idea, potentially making it viable without being overpowered, I think.
I also like some of those proposed Boff abilities in this thread
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I suppose that would work. Thank you for taking the suggestion seriously. If a shorter rate of fire of about 2.5 or 3 seconds made it more agreeable for everyone I would be totally cool with that.
And If this suggested beam idea makes it in-game, it'll be interesting about the results on Sci Vessels and Escorts.
For Escorts, it'd be the perfect alpha strike weapon (or hit-and-run builds), which would pop most ships... though I'm quite sure Cruisers would eat it without too much trouble. That'd help make sure cruisers stay viable as tanks. Of course, if it turns out to be too much trouble, perhaps they should only be allowed on Sci Vessels.
They'd be powerful on Sci Vessels, but thanks to the small lack of DPS abilities/consoles, would keep them from being too much... but they'd have powerful weapons overall, which they need
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Anything that comes in the form of damage a tac captain can massively boost no matter what ship he is in.
That is why I say you cannot really make a new weapon type... a boff ability is a better option imo.
that players start more nuuby gamestyle like at moment?
players have now big prob to bring fast the 45arc into position you will have now 15arc?
so a player will need try 10 min reach the arc to make finally 1 shot befor he get killed coz moving and hold enemy in the low area not works?
the idea is totally TRIBBLE from my side.
Like I said earlier the cone of fire isn't a problem for most science ships. Not only do you get a good turning radius in most sci ships but you also have a lot of abilities that interfere with enemy movement. Viral Matrix, Gravity Well, Tractor Beam, Beam Target Engines, and Energy Siphon can all be used to either bring an opponent to a stop, or at least slow them down.
If you don't like it, don't use it. But I think we should have the option for people who can use it and would like it.
i dont know what is a scie ship but i know only BOPs or escorts can bring there weapons fast in right shotposition, and i dont think they are scie ships.:rolleyes:
and the idea is TRIBBLE coz it will bring into the game more troubles then exist , players now have probs to use ships right with this new weapons more nuubgamestyles will exist.
Right. You wouldn't know how to use it properly, so you want the option barred from everyone.
TRIBBLE the fact that more weapon/ability options add more depth and complexity to a game, thus making it more fun. TRIBBLE the fact that people who would know how to use new weapons and abilities correctly would benefit from them, and be happier for them.
You couldn't use it so no one should have it.
This same TRIBBLE attitude is growing more prevalent in modern society and we all suffer for it. Thanks for not contributing anything to the thread.
Adding a beam that can basically deliver a one-shot when combined with BO, which can be up every 15 seconds, is not exactly what I would call adding complexity to the game. I know exactly how I would use this, which is why I am completely against it. Rather, I think it is those whose don't understand how it can be used/abused that are for it.
TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz-
Svarog | Veles | et al.
A single cannon does certainly not have a higher DPS than a Dual beam bank. Hint: it's also got twice the firing arc.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
You are correct. I had the wrong numbers for the DBB for some reason. Thank you for pointing that out. I don't know how I did that.
I still think a Capital Beam should have more DPS than a Dual Beam Bank. I guess it would ideally fall somewhere in between a DBB and DC now. Maybe around 242 for a Mark XII common?
Lets try this:
Mark XII common Capital Beam Bank
DPV: 605
DPS: 242
ROF: 2.5 seconds
15 degree firing arc
How is that?
the flaws pointed out on the first page of this thread do not magically disapear.
it highly synergizes with BO...which has it's highest rank only accessable to escorts or something like escorts.
no synergy with other ship builds...too narrow for cruisers and more or less sci vessels...and sci vessels have too little tac consoles to buff the base dmg output.
Not every ship can equip cannons, for example. This would be done much the same way.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
yeah that is a fools choice anyway...since then it would be a weapon solely for sci vessels...to kind of fix them? even though they are not even close to preferable with that kind of narrow arc.
so in other words...a weapon with no literal use at all.
i'm not saying the idea for a new weapon is not necessary...i do think there should be another type (arc) weapon. But not one that is gamebreaking.
maybe a 360 degree beam bank...so taht sci vessels have more forward fire power while following or running at a target for instance.
The idea sounds good to me, and I'm supporting it
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
You want to fix science vessels... with weapon damage/abilities.
Think about that statement for a good while.
To fix science ships you need to fix science not give it guns so that tactical captains can once again hop onto science ships and use them as death stars...and get the ships nerfed as badly as they did before.
For the record, maybe it was the OP, but the Spinal Lance is hardly useless. In the hands of a TAC officer, I routinely do 40-50K in each of my two strikes. I've maxed at 60K each... and I don't wuss out by getting an extra 15% for using/decloaking.
I use the jump console and bring it on a usually weaker rear shield!
You win an internet cookie.
OP idea is interesting but capital ships with a 15 degree firing arc isn't feasible (unless it's broadside 15 degrees). It would play nicely to escorts with 3 tac boffs though.
This would even make the combat more Star Trek like. As I remember it cruisers where always quite useless against a group of small ships. And in the DS9 battles cruisers were always fighting other cruisers while escorts were fighting each other.
Maybe some modifier like +15% dmg against cruisers, -15% dmg against science ships and escorts could be a good idea?
It's called the Guramba. It has a big-TRIBBLE energy beam, a little more powerful than a BO2/3, with a long cooldown. . . in exchange for drastically slowed turn rate and a boost to weapons power. It also visibly changes shape. The weapon also has an animation on the outside of the craft. Play KDF and use it.
Large Beam Array:
Energy Damage
270? Arc
To target: 880 Phaser Damage (176DPS)
To self: -12 Weapon Power when firing other weapons
To target: 2.5% Chance: Disable 1 Subsystem for 5 seconds
Description: The Large Beam array fires a continuous Energy Beam for a duration of four seconds; dealing 220 Energy Damage every second, over the four second duration. Recharge time 1 second.
Note: Beam overload only affects the first second in damage thereby applying its bonus damage to 220DPV; the other three seconds deal normal damage.
Note: The Large Beam Array Counts as a single Beam when used with Beam Fire at will.
Note: The Large Beam Array can only be equipped in the fore weapon slot.
PROs:
- A hit deals all 880 damage over four seconds.
- Larger weapon arc.
CONs:
- A miss deals zero damage.
- Less opportunity to PROC
- Can only be quipped on the forward weapon arc