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Where STO got it wrong.
issueman1
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I want to bring something to the table to discuss. If you look at any star trek movie, or hard cannon, what do they all have very much in common? A story, STO lacks this. STO lacks a story but not just a story line, oh no; but a story that each player has with any given ship.
Look at your shipyard, how many ships do you own? Safe to say there's more than one, and what fond story do you have about any one ship that you can't say about another? Sure you have your favorite and your least, but can you honestly say you feel a 'trek' like connection to your ship.
Do you feel home sick for another ship while you fly another? Chances are no, all cruisers are alike, all science are alike, and odds are you're flying an escort (because lets face it, only way to get things done in the time given is with escorts).
The future of STO isn't the next great 25$ over priced 1's and 0's imaginary spaceship you buy, it's the story. It's the conversations you have with people over comms, the story you tell your co-worker about how your little Miranda beat the life out of a Borg sphere (by ramming it and self destructing but that's besides the point
.
For STO to continue, the developers need to stray away from the 25$ space ship program. They need to develop the STO universe into something more than an bothersome sector space. They need to allow the player to bond with ship and crew. Allow the player to write their own story and feel part of the universe.
Poorly written missions played over and over do not do it either. My suggestion is conflict. Klingons and Feds have been at war, but the battle lines never change. The conflict seems like mock engagements, the battles alone are a disgrace for a Klingon to die in.
Adding conflict to STO will bring something no star ship can ever bring. Allow Klingons and Feds to fight over solar systems (containing missions and stores that only the owners can use/do). Allow pvp to be engaged through sector space, allow the players of STO to write the next big chapter.
I ask of you cryptic, to consider this. Consider how vast and intelligent your player base is. Open the flood gates, release the hounds of war. Let Klingons die in battle, and the Federation the chance to defend the freedom of thousands if not millions of lives.
Then perhaps the story can change, and an alliance formed against a bigger... common enemy. But allow us the chance to make a story to change.
In addition I add this. Remove level requirements. Why not make any mission playable by any player. Why not let rank 1's fight along side rank 50's? The way to do this is a very simple change!
An enemy ship is being attacked by two players, the damage would coincide with how they are now. A level 50 will do the damage that is done, and a level 1 will do the damage it is doing now. The change is on the npc side. No matter the level of the npc it will only hit the level 1 for what ever a level 1 npc would, but if it were to change target to the level 50 it would be the level 50 equivalent.
Exp, loot, and damage would be tied not to the NPC. But to the rank of the player. A level 50 player picks up a loot box, it is level 50 gear. A level 1 picks up level 1 gear.
Just a thought.
Look at your shipyard, how many ships do you own? Safe to say there's more than one, and what fond story do you have about any one ship that you can't say about another? Sure you have your favorite and your least, but can you honestly say you feel a 'trek' like connection to your ship.
Do you feel home sick for another ship while you fly another? Chances are no, all cruisers are alike, all science are alike, and odds are you're flying an escort (because lets face it, only way to get things done in the time given is with escorts).
The future of STO isn't the next great 25$ over priced 1's and 0's imaginary spaceship you buy, it's the story. It's the conversations you have with people over comms, the story you tell your co-worker about how your little Miranda beat the life out of a Borg sphere (by ramming it and self destructing but that's besides the point
.For STO to continue, the developers need to stray away from the 25$ space ship program. They need to develop the STO universe into something more than an bothersome sector space. They need to allow the player to bond with ship and crew. Allow the player to write their own story and feel part of the universe.
Poorly written missions played over and over do not do it either. My suggestion is conflict. Klingons and Feds have been at war, but the battle lines never change. The conflict seems like mock engagements, the battles alone are a disgrace for a Klingon to die in.
Adding conflict to STO will bring something no star ship can ever bring. Allow Klingons and Feds to fight over solar systems (containing missions and stores that only the owners can use/do). Allow pvp to be engaged through sector space, allow the players of STO to write the next big chapter.
I ask of you cryptic, to consider this. Consider how vast and intelligent your player base is. Open the flood gates, release the hounds of war. Let Klingons die in battle, and the Federation the chance to defend the freedom of thousands if not millions of lives.
Then perhaps the story can change, and an alliance formed against a bigger... common enemy. But allow us the chance to make a story to change.
In addition I add this. Remove level requirements. Why not make any mission playable by any player. Why not let rank 1's fight along side rank 50's? The way to do this is a very simple change!
An enemy ship is being attacked by two players, the damage would coincide with how they are now. A level 50 will do the damage that is done, and a level 1 will do the damage it is doing now. The change is on the npc side. No matter the level of the npc it will only hit the level 1 for what ever a level 1 npc would, but if it were to change target to the level 50 it would be the level 50 equivalent.
Exp, loot, and damage would be tied not to the NPC. But to the rank of the player. A level 50 player picks up a loot box, it is level 50 gear. A level 1 picks up level 1 gear.
Just a thought.
Post edited by issueman1 on
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Plus let's face it, it would take time away from them selling us new ships..
I just don't GET the level of passion people have for ships. In my memory, most episodes didn't have ships fire one shot or do anything hugely impressive. Trek had people talk endlessly about their love for a ship but it was mainly a setting.
And that's where I think STO got it wrong and TOR and STO got things backwards.
Trek isn't about ship battles. It's about setting and relationship. Trek is a talking heads IP with brawling and the odd shot as a finishing move. Emphasizing action (and gun action in particular) is like making a Law & Order First Person Shooter... and emphasizing SHIP action is like a Law & Order FPS where you play as the LAWYERS having gun battles. If one sci-fi IP could benefit from hours of recorded dialogue, it would be Trek.
In turn, Star Wars is all about action and ship battles are half the story. And the dialogue isn't exactly the rich part of that IP aside from sparse quips and one liners. Half an hour of recorded dialogue would be generous.
The two games are just so reversed, it's as if it was a deliberate choice to reverse them.
I kinda get that with Cryptic, who to this day seems to periodically forget that this isn't a J.J.verse game. (And I like the J.J.verse but really none of its tone belongs here and it was a deliberate Star Wars-ification of the IP.) But I really don't get what possessed Bioware to "Trek up" Star Wars by focusing on dialogue and relationships and downplay ship action to treat ships more as settings.
KDF-Fed fighting over systems would mostly not work without a revamp to the KDF or a serious handicap to Feds to help the KDF since Cryptic says they're such a small % of the total players. (Not enough ppl play KDF to justify the work or somethingish)
There are missions that rank up sub 50s to 50. Generally the sub 50s pull the 50s down and make it harder than if the whole group was Vice Admirals. This is simply because while your ranked up in hull, hp, etc. Sub 50s lack the extra BO abilities and ship weapons & slots to function on even terms with the natural 50s. If your talking fun, well friends of higher level can always join you in a lower ranked mission. The game does have a squad support system.
Relationships and dialogue has been their claim to fame since their PC RPG only beginnings. It's natural they'd focus on what they believe they do well and what made them famous.
I know and I like both companies... But they each got the wrong IP license.
I have slightly more faith that Cryptic can learn to incorporate some of Bioware's thinking than that Bioware can incorporate Cryptic's.
But there's really nothing about either game that wouldn't be better if you could swap the IPs.
Personally, I create my own story all the time, it's called imagination. I doubt any STO writer can outdo what I see in own head.
Also, your post doesn't seem to define the financial advantages of your proposal.
And removing the level requirments isn't a good idea IMO, the reality is that this is a Star Trek MMO. It's a video game. If you want a virtual Star Trek experience where the focus is on pure story telling and relationships, theres a few Star Trek sims in Second Life that focus purely on that.
STO is first and foremost a money making business. It's purpose is not so you can can have an escape to the 24th-25th century where you literally living it. It's just a game.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/10/04/cryptic-explains-star-trek-onlines-quick-turnaround-time/
I doubt Cryptic will ever have the writing staff/talent that old Bioware and Black Isle had. Granted I don't have access to their budget, but I doubt they're spending a sizable chunk of change to get grade A storytellers that actually understand the interactive medium.
For a long time story telling in the fantasy and sci fi games genre has followed the "nothing new under the sun" path more often than not.
Very well said.
The "Trek"-feeling is in my head. It's about imagination.
If I start a new mission (mostly Foundry) I go to my bridge and sit on the captains chair and open the dialog box.
I write regulary Captains Log. I do this in my ready room.
I created costumes for my captain and also two totally different ones (okay, it's still the same gender and race ^^) for my first science and first tactical officer. So if I do an exploration mission "I" order my science to do it because it feels odd to let the scanning-thing be done by the captain.
I created background stories for my BOs. I even let one BO "die" in my imagination when I just wanted to remove him from the roster (she got killed in a ground mission and I didn't revive her).
So for me the Trek-feeling works very well in this game
Unfortunately, the better question would be "where STO got it right?". Something like Star Trek Online has so much potential, yet STO wasted all of it, entirely. What is left is a relatively simple space-shooting game which uses some sounds and looks from Star Trek. The basic game mechanic is a disgrace for bearing the name of Star Trek.
For instance, yesterday I tied to play for a few minutes again. Went on an "exploration" mission with my twink, a science captain commanding an intrepid class vessel. The premise of the mission was to investiage a distress signal which tunred out to be a klingon vor'cha battlecruiser I had to destroy, with ease btw. After that, five other groups of enemy ships spawned out of nowhere and I had to kill all of them, including negh'var capital ships my science vessel trashed without problems. After that, I quit to the desktop and remembered why this game doesn't motivate me any more.
STO is a chaotic fanwankery rather than a game. You can buy random visuals and encounter almost everything which ever was featured in any given Star Trek show, yet there was not a single thought given about how or why it would make any sense at all for being in this game EXCEPT that you can sell this stuff to people. And it seems like it doesn't bother anyone. People are totally happy with their TOS-crew armed with miniguns and grenade launchers flying a galor-cruiser battling assimilated members of species 8472 alongside armoured figures looking like HALO masterchiefs and coktail-dress wearing vulcan ladies engaging in close combat with laser-lirpas.
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You know, I think I'd actually pay to see Ben Stone shoot it out with Michael Cutter in the middle of a courthouse scene.
"hang 'em high McCoy" could have a lasso-like ability to catch people and string them up. This stuff writes itself.
Having missions interspaced with cutscenes showing you on your bridge, captain's logs, face-to-face interactions with your BOFFs . . . letting you play as your BOFFs, even? Little things like that would help a lot.
Of course if you never buy any of those $25 ships, they'll likely be unable to pay to put those ideas in.
As far as what the OP is suggesting with more pvp type war content, I disagree with. Now I think there needs to be more pvp content for players who like to pvp, leaderboards, new maps etc but to do what he is suggesting does take some of the fun out for some of us, I feel.
The most important part of any discussion concerning content or the lack there is, is the fact at least we have a Star Trek game AND room for this game to grow and add what a lot of players would like to see. There is no doubt the content isn't going to come fast for some or enough for others but at least the game is going and they are still attempting to produce more content.
People are having fun near you, and they're doing it WRONG.
If those people are "totally happy", why do you get to say they shouldn't be? What happened to IDIC?
I actually do have fond memories from some of my ships. Statistically speaking, you are right there is no major difference, but then that is very Trekkish (Enterprise-D could do the same things as Voyager, Kirk got attached to Enterprise and moved to Ent-A after her destruction). I have built up quite a story behind some of my ships, some related to the missions I ran and others that I just built around my character?s back story.
Unfortunately, the territory control map concept you are suggesting is no small feat. I would bet this idea, which has been brought up at many times in the past year in various forms, requires a significant amount of effort. And let?s face it, PvP isn?t exactly the shining star of STO right now, so it?s also a big gamble.
For all the complaining we?ve had with gated content, how would the community react to content that is only available if you have good PVPers in your faction? Let?s not forget there is a huge disparity between the number of Klink players and Fed players, something that will become a major problem if PvP population plays a part in unlocking PVE content.
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
If your idea of PvP would be openworld, I am against it, but if it was more like SWG were you could be listed as "active" or "Innactive" (PvP-on or PvP-off, respectively) i'd be all for that.
Each sto episode must be independently to be interesting and relate to the overall season big picture.....this is a Star Trek must. I played 5 foundry missions recently featured "Medusa series", were much better than the majority of the missions currently in sto.
story telling needs an upgrade, it is currenlty a grind without the trek adventure.
this means more trek quality contenmorere often, more, more, instead of Star Base busy work.
+1 This, oh so very much this.
That's why PvP is the real endgame. If you want real challenge, queue up. Learn to optimize your build. And have fun shooting other people.
I'm leveling a new-old character right now and it's the same thing. I'm pretty much sleepwalking through it. All I'm thinking about right now is the STF runs I'm going to do to get PvP gear and the level 50 PvP queues.
Edit:
Oh and I agree with the rest of your points. It's a mishmash of stuff meant to appeal to a large group of people. A lot of stuff that is just meant to keep people doing the endless and pointless PvE grind.
In fact, that is what I thought Eta Eridani should have always been (Netrual Zone and all), or Pi Canus, Alpha Centauri, etc... make use out of diplomatic immunity.
I am sure the complexity grows exponentially with the volume of the player base... Certain places are off limits (Home sectors)... the rest... if you get there, you can fght for it, or hell just scout it. Or complete your assigned mission, understanding that it is possible for you to be attacked.
Perhaps initially the KDF would be restrained to 1 sector... but honestly... I like the underdog, so I might just take the KDF toon out of mothballs to fight my way out of the sector and win some more areas in glorious battle.
On the flip side, I would run to aid a sector/system under attack as my Fed Character...
OR alternately, I could choose to ignore the PVP... go about my missions/stf's (which also need more trekiness feel) etc...
In the end the OP is correct in saying, that essentially we are stalemated in this war... a war that we don't "really" fight... we skirmish eachother... but there is no give and take... if the systems in the Neutral zone(s) were aquirable... you would see people called in to help defend it, and they will show... or others forming teams to take a system...
I'd be there in a heartbeat... everyday.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Just fly gal x, you get your galaxy and your escorty feel...
When I play StarFleet Command there is star date and the release of ships.I have couple of which I choose from.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
The best MMO's out there are great because they are great at PvP. You will never face another more challenging and addictive thing than fight another player.
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I have to say, I am slowly becoming a convert to the PVP idea... at some point the dev's simply can not keep up with content demand... Even if they were to come out with new content (lets take Nukara, or the new fleet events for example)... it isn't long before we have all run them enough times to need something else to do.
The foundry is great, and their authors (the ones not doing the 20 second clicky clicky missions) should be commended, and does add to my enjoyment of the game as a whole... but I have to agree that in the end... i need something to fight for, and potentially lose.
Without some sort or area control... it loses its "meaning".
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
system Lord Baal is dead
Did you ever play the Decipher card game? Because it's not TOTALLY different although where I think Decipher came out ahead was in game-ifying personality elements and plot twists from the shows.
But the card game was totally the kind of game where I had Mirror Sisko escape a Soong-type android piloted starbase/mobile supernova platform courtesy of a time anomaly and then proceeded to beam across universes to DS9 where he proceeded to slaughter Alexander Rozhenko, Lxwana Troi, and Wesley Crusher with an Edo probe and an arsenal of weapons, all thanks in large part to Q.
At the same time, the game "powerized" personality traits, bluffing, and technobabble a lot more than STO.
So you wouldn't see turret pets. You would see powers that represented bluffing, disguise, subterfuge, seduction, charisma, thoughtful contemplation, etc.
But you'd do it in the midst of continuity soup.
You got that one wrong. I don't want to take anyones fun away and I can still have fun with a nice group of people doing an awesome STF run. But the question of this thread was "where STO got it wrong" in terms of "Star Trek"-ness-ish. And as much as I regret it, the answer to that question is "almost everywhere" because there is just nothing of the iconic spirit the show offered to be found in this game. It is, as someone else posted, a "superhero" or fantasygame in space. You log in and have a few colourfull battles with or against other players and log off again. But there is absolutely no "feeling" to this game. It is more of a "buy the ourfit of your favourite Star Trek character of all time and run around with it" instead of "go boldly where no one has gone before". It's just too disappointing when you've played the Star Trek adventure-games of old and have dreamed to embrace on a journey full of mystery into the depth of space with other players but instead you get a fun but simple shooting game.
I know, but the fighting isn't what I came here for. Sure, I could try PvP and optimize my build, but I think this just doesn't appeal to me that much.
You're right, it is meant to appeal to everyone out there and that's why I think the game should have been set in a fixed, "neutral" setting. It's the 25th century - just stay there. People wouldn't get their favourite uniform but maybe a more consistent experience in a setting which makes more sense. A setting which isn't crammed with just everything Star Trek had ever shown you as a player encounter in about 2 hours of gameplay but more emphasis on a story, exploration of that soecific setting and maybe encounter something well-known from the shows as a gimmick and reward instead of it being shoved up your nose constantly.
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