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Non-rapid fire transphasic torpedoes need a slight buff
hurleybird
Member Posts: 909
Disregarding modifiers and criticals, with breen 2 piece, full torpedo spec, 4 mk12 purple consoles
For just one torpedo:
Rapid = 4545.3 damage, 8.5s cooldown
Mk 12 Regular = 4669.5 damage, 10.5s cooldown
For three torpedoes (eg. full kinetic science ship)
With 0 projectile doffs, rapids do 20.24% more DPS:
Rapid transphasic DPS = 1604.22
Non-rapid DPS = 1334.14
With 1 doff rapids do 22.44% more DPS:
Rapid transphasic DPS = 2075.23
Non-rapid DPS = 1694.83
With 2 doffs rapid fire does 22.56% more DPS:
Rapid transphasic DPS = 2594.16
Non-rapid DPS = 2116.61
With 3 doffs rapids do 20.30% more DPS:
Rapid transphasic DPS = 3104.81
Non-rapid DPS = 2580.98
Either the rapids need to be toned down, or the regular transphasics need a buff... or some combination of the two. The ever so slightly higher burst damage of the regular transphasic is not worth the huge decrease in DPS.
If you want to verify my findings, here is the code I used to calculate my values, sorry in advance that the quote function killed the formatting a bit:
For just one torpedo:
Rapid = 4545.3 damage, 8.5s cooldown
Mk 12 Regular = 4669.5 damage, 10.5s cooldown
For three torpedoes (eg. full kinetic science ship)
With 0 projectile doffs, rapids do 20.24% more DPS:
Rapid transphasic DPS = 1604.22
Non-rapid DPS = 1334.14
With 1 doff rapids do 22.44% more DPS:
Rapid transphasic DPS = 2075.23
Non-rapid DPS = 1694.83
With 2 doffs rapid fire does 22.56% more DPS:
Rapid transphasic DPS = 2594.16
Non-rapid DPS = 2116.61
With 3 doffs rapids do 20.30% more DPS:
Rapid transphasic DPS = 3104.81
Non-rapid DPS = 2580.98
Either the rapids need to be toned down, or the regular transphasics need a buff... or some combination of the two. The ever so slightly higher burst damage of the regular transphasic is not worth the huge decrease in DPS.
If you want to verify my findings, here is the code I used to calculate my values, sorry in advance that the quote function killed the formatting a bit:
#include <iostream>
using namespace TRIBBLE;
struct TorpedoType{
float Damage;
float Cooldown;
}Rapid, Regular;
double dps (float Damage, float Cooldown, int Doffs)
{
float TorpedoOneCd = 0; float TorpedoTwoCd = 0; float TorpedoThreeCd = 0;
float Gcd = 0;
double TotalDam = 0;
srand(1);
int Random = 0;
for (double n=0; n<13000000;) // each n being half a second
{
if (TorpedoOneCd == 0 && Gcd == 0)
{
TotalDam += Damage;
TorpedoOneCd = Cooldown;
Gcd = 1;
for (int i=Doffs; i>0; i--)
{
Random = (int)(rand() % 100);
if (Random <= 19)
{
if (TorpedoOneCd > 5) TorpedoOneCd -= 5;
else TorpedoOneCd = 0;
if (TorpedoTwoCd > 5) TorpedoTwoCd -= 5;
else TorpedoTwoCd = 0;
if (TorpedoThreeCd > 5) TorpedoThreeCd -= 5;
else TorpedoThreeCd = 0;
}
}
}
if (TorpedoTwoCd == 0 && Gcd == 0)
{
TotalDam += Damage;
TorpedoTwoCd = Cooldown;
Gcd = 1;
for (int i=Doffs; i>0; i--)
{
Random = (int)(rand() % 100);
if (Random <= 19)
{
if (TorpedoOneCd > 5) TorpedoOneCd -= 5;
else TorpedoOneCd = 0;
if (TorpedoTwoCd > 5) TorpedoTwoCd -= 5;
else TorpedoTwoCd = 0;
if (TorpedoThreeCd > 5) TorpedoThreeCd -= 5;
else TorpedoThreeCd = 0;
}
}
}
if (TorpedoThreeCd == 0 && Gcd == 0)
{
TotalDam += Damage;
TorpedoThreeCd = Cooldown;
Gcd = 1;
for (int i=Doffs; i>0; i--)
{
Random = (int)(rand() % 100);
if (Random <= 19)
{
if (TorpedoOneCd > 5) TorpedoOneCd -= 5;
else TorpedoOneCd = 0;
if (TorpedoTwoCd > 5) TorpedoTwoCd -= 5;
else TorpedoTwoCd = 0;
if (TorpedoThreeCd > 5) TorpedoThreeCd -= 5;
else TorpedoThreeCd = 0;
}
}
}
if (TorpedoOneCd > 0) TorpedoOneCd -=0.5;
if (TorpedoTwoCd > 0) TorpedoTwoCd -=0.5;
if (TorpedoThreeCd > 0) TorpedoThreeCd -= 0.5;
if (Gcd > 0) Gcd -=0.5;
n += 0.5;
}
return TotalDam / 13000000;
}
main(int)
{
Rapid.Damage = 4545.3;
Rapid.Cooldown = 8.5;
Regular.Damage = 4669.5;
Regular.Cooldown = 10.5;
cout << "With 0 doffs, Rapid Torpedo DPS is: "
<< dps(Rapid.Damage, Rapid.Cooldown, 0) << endl;
cout << "With 0 doffs, Regular Torpedo DPS is: "
<< dps(Regular.Damage, Regular.Cooldown, 0) << endl; endl;
cout << "With 1 doff, Rapid Torpedo DPS is: "
<< dps(Rapid.Damage, Rapid.Cooldown, 1) << endl;
cout << "With 1 doff, Regular Torpedo DPS is: "
<< dps(Regular.Damage, Regular.Cooldown, 1) << endl; endl;
cout << "With 2 doffs, Rapid Torpedo DPS is: "
<< dps(Rapid.Damage, Rapid.Cooldown, 2) << endl;
cout << "With 2 doffs, Regular Torpedo DPS is: "
<< dps(Regular.Damage, Regular.Cooldown, 2) << endl; endl;
cout << "With 3 doffs, Rapid Torpedo DPS is: "
<< dps(Rapid.Damage, Rapid.Cooldown, 3) << endl;
cout << "With 3 doffs, Regular Torpedo DPS is: "
<< dps(Regular.Damage, Regular.Cooldown, 3) << endl; endl;
system("pause");
return 0;
}
Behold, The Jorf Guide
Post edited by hurleybird on
0
Comments
But i suppose they are awesome for PvE, so why would they care?
Besides, my next uber hax build will be 3 dhc, 1 transsexual torp, and 4 torpedo consoles!
Good CHNHK proof kkthnxchnhk
Cryptic needs to CHNHK Plasma weapons so they can actualluy be usuable
But yes, plasma needs a buff regardless.
i agree with your assessment. regular anything in this game at this point is generally underpowered. there are umpteen "run this mission" items, many in use and many overlooked. However i dont see this need as critical or super relevant. fix tac team first etc
On a full torpedo boat (I run 4 torps front) there is not a huge decrease in DPS in fact there is a increase in DPS and burst.
Transphasics are not underpowered and the rapid fire torpedos are the lower DPS ones when talking about the higher end. Plus regular transphasics give higher damage with torpedo skills over rapid torps.
Sorry for being at the end of the experiment
no problem, it was fun. like i said in the chat, i couldn't help but laugh at the near absurdity
it went about like this
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/578965377919039029/114088B430261244609882E8C679835AC0B5D334/
no one needed any weapons power, everyone was nearly impenetrable, and all the mines and HY transphasics and MVAM escorts tractor repulsering you all was basically impossible to defend against. no real attempt was made to damage our shields, it was 100% hull assault. i thought something like this could work in theory, glad i got to see it in action once.
1 thing i would definately not do is spec against repel. That just works to our advantage. Not going to state how. I'm sure you guys would be able to work it out.
Wait... what is wrong with tactical team?
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Hehe it was fun
Its not in favour of mini's trico :P hahaha
ah, lol! :rolleyes:
It's not math per se, more of a simulation. Because there is a GCD and doffs that proc here and there you can't just punch things up in an excel spreadsheet, which is why I resorted to creating a c++ console application instead. In this case, we fire torpedoes for approximately 75 simulated days (13000000 / 2 / 60 / 60 / 24) in order to average out doff procs.
The "N being half a second" comment isn't about how fast things fire -- half a second is merely our granularity. Torpedoes (aside from trics ofc) fire every 6.5, 8.5, or 10.5 seconds (even if the tooltip doesen't mention the half second, you can verify this by dividing the listed burst damage number of a weapon by it's listed DPS) so we need to check every half second if one is able to fire.
That being said, fire rate does not cap out at two seconds max. According to Cryptic, the GCD between torpedoes is one second. Of course, "according to Cryptic" isn't always to be trusted, but from my experience running a torpedo boat peak firing rate does indeed seem to be about one second. If someone can prove me wrong on this, I'll rerun the numbers with the new GCD value.
Four torpedoes would definitely make the numbers closer since the rapids would suffer more cooldown congestion, but there's a reason I didn't model four torps -- based on our testing I think you're still better off using beams in a cruiser and cannons in an escort. The real value of running torps in carriers and science ships is that you can spec out of weapons energy and run full aux all the time. That being said, let's do it for kicks:
Numbers for four launchers:
With 0 doffs, rapids do 20.24% more DPS (same as with three torps. Makes sense given cooldowns)
rapid = 2138.96
regular = 1778.86
With 1 doff, rapids do 19.56% more DPS (rapids very slightly congested)
rapid = 2798.38
regular = 2340.47
With 2 doffs, rapids do 16.21% more DPS (rapids moderately congested)
rapid = 3426.91
regular = 2948.71
With 3 doffs, rapids do 11.27% more DPS (rapids significantly congested)
rapid = 3911.36
regular = 3515.31
So with four torpedoes, the regular transphasics only become worth considering over the rapids when you have three doffs equiped and you start seeing some significant cooldown congestion. That beind said, is an 11.27% DPS hit worth it for one more modifier and ever so slightly higher burst damage? Probably is if you can get an MK12[ACC]x3 for shooting escorts with high defense, but then the fact that we're comparing a torpedo worth quite a few million EC on the exchange to a free weapon you can get in ten minutes for completing a mission kind of shows things are out of whack, no?
I've been doing fine with single acc torpedoes on my torp boat. It's a purely subjective observation, but torpedoes seem to miss a lot less than beams and cannons do. Or maybe it's just that when we run torp builds whomever the torp boats are firing at tends to be locked down :P
How does Fleet Transphasic fit into this? Would x3 Fleet beat x3 Rapid as the base damage for Fleet is even higher than normal and you have DMG x3. (not taking acc into account just dps)
Do not get my wrong, I like your post just I am not sure the numbers are matching up with what we get in game.
Thanks for the maths Jorf.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Not really, because the difference in damage per volley is so infinitesimally low. On the numbers I provided, regular transhpasics are only doing 2.73% more damage per volley. Even a small increase in firing rate is enough to overcome that.
That being said, there does seem to be some weirdness going on here -- MT's purple MK 12 regular transphasic was only doing 0.49% more damage per volley disregarding modifiers. Seems maybe like one type is benefiting from spec disproportionately? Sounds like a math bug on the part of Cryptic. Guess I'll need to do some further testing.
Things get a little trickier once you add in DMG x3 and assuming a 100% hit ratio. It only takes between 11 to 16 (*) shots from normal Transphasic with DMGx3 to make up for each bonus shot rapid get without damage consoles or around 16shots with damage consoles. With 3 normal Transphasic and 1 cluster it normally takes over 11 shots before a cycle is missed and the 4th launcher can fire and it takes well over 40shots on average before no doffs are trigged and you are sitting waiting cooldown to fire. This is also why I do not use ACC, unless I miss more than 1 shot in 25 ACC gives less DPS. For some reason torpedoes feel like they miss a lot less than other weapons.
*Without any damage items on ship 11 shots, with damage consoles 16 shots. Same for first number 31 shots without damage consoles, 45 with.