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Thoughts on a true Torpedo Boat...
scarabpoet
Member Posts: 1 Arc User
Hey guys, I am sitting here, thinking about ship builds that are out of the ordinary. With the new wide-angle quantum torp launcher, the potential for a true Torpedo Boat build becomes an interesting reality...
With all of that in mind, let's get the discussion started. I would like to see what thoughts you have abt the need for, what type of ship would make the best, and how you would maximize the potential of, a Torpedo Boat build.
Oh, and please don't cheat, yes, the Amitage Heavy Escort-Carrier was advertised as a torp boat, but be creative, let's look at some other ship builds that are available!
With all of that in mind, let's get the discussion started. I would like to see what thoughts you have abt the need for, what type of ship would make the best, and how you would maximize the potential of, a Torpedo Boat build.
Oh, and please don't cheat, yes, the Amitage Heavy Escort-Carrier was advertised as a torp boat, but be creative, let's look at some other ship builds that are available!
Post edited by scarabpoet on
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And just because I am full of questions: What race would you choose to build the best dedicated-torpedo boat?
Seems to me that this kind of a console would make for a wicked DPS boost to any STF fleet. What do you guys think?
I would agree with you on that
But that is where playstyle comes into play. Do you wait for your team-mates to take down the shields first? or do you load energy weps so that you can assist? Or do you load up transphasics and ignore some of the shields? What do you guys think?
Also, what about a new torp type that takes down shields? Tachyon based dmg?:cool:
On my Klingon, I fly a torpedo boat. Of course, it's the B'rel Retrofit, but it's still a torpedo boat.
It can do enough damage to take out shields and hit the hull of many unprepared ships.
Granted, that's because they don't know I'm coming.
Honestly, I think the B'rel is the best bet at succeeding as a torp boat over anything else.
However, Cygone had mad an excellent guide on how to make a Fed torp boat, which I've adapted a bit for my B'rel. But, it's possible.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=265786&highlight=cygone
On my Fed, I use all cannons. On my Klingon, I use all torpedoes. Both can handle themselves well.
While the B'rel is more of a support/clean-up ship, I have been able to take out some folks one on one.
For a sci ship I'd pick the Intrepid. If I was going to ignore energy weapons all together it would probably be three transphasics in front and two in the back with a Hargh'peng, shields would never come down anyway so I might as well spam things that bypass them. There might be one or two Torpedo Doffs in this build just to get a more constant stream of fire but I'd probably focus on buffing Sci powers. The sensor analysis would help with transphasics low base damage it turns well and the ablative generators wouldn't mess with a torpedo boat at all.
If I was going escort it would be the Armitage (that's not lazy it's just the best choice). I'd embrace Attack Patterns and T: Spreads with Delta fliers for shields stripping and I'd probably use 4 photon torpedoes up front with no torpedo Doffs.
Without looking at builds if I seriously wanted a torpedo boat I'd avoid your "no energy weapons" rule.
I'm thinking the Intrepid-R with a high turn rate, sensor analysis and subsystem targeting would be a good choice, 2-3 torpedo Doffs and two quantum torpedoes on the front and back of the ship(the 180 Deg on the front for better AOE maximization). Stick a dual beam bank on the front of the ship and a beam array in the back. 75 shield power and 75 Aux power for sci abilities and heavy damage resistances. Use Sci powers for shield stripping and immobilization with Tac Boffs offering TT1 and T:spread.
I run my heavy escourt carrier with 2 front photons, 1 rear photon and the photon PDS.
The damage spikes worked really well yet i still had 2 DHC and 2 turrets to keep up good energy damage dps.
I wouldnt add any more torps to this build as the cooldowns would kill my dps.
First would be a Torp Mission Pod that has the new 180 degree Quantum Torp (1 fore, 1 aft). You now have 360 degree coverage, and with Torp Skill abilities some rather high damage potential. The Akira, the Nebula, and the Recon/Science Deep Space classes have this type of Mission Pod. The Science ships tend to use them for advanced sensors rather then multiple Torp tubes like the Akira class.
The other option is based on a non canon Star Trek ship (U.S.S. Achilles (NCC-22376)) which used dorsal mounted micro Torp launchers. The intro for the game it was in shows how over powered it was, but experimental super ship tend to be just that. This is the only example of a non fore/aft firing Torp tube. This ship was specifically designed to combat the Borg threat with massive fire power. A different hull design, though some simularity can be seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-ICRW5-ygA - time index 2:15 to 2:30 for the ventral torps
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Achilles_class - non-canon info from Memory Beta
I do ignore the KDF ships. Klingons use any weapon they can find use in, and quite often use obsolete weapons. Klingons in some other games used rockets/missiles as well as Torps. Torps are not really supposed to change trajectory very much, but due to how STO made Torps slow they tend to chase targets they are ment to hit. Missiles are lower damage, but have far more turn rate. They also would be fired in large salvos to overwhelm a ships energy weapons. Sort of a cheap win tactic if you had enough ammo to last.
STO is designed with the limits on weapons in mind. Torps/Cannons fire in forward arcs for Tactical strafe runs. Beams/Turrets for overall coverage, and broadside attacks. Firing arcs and positioning are part of the stratedgy that STO tries to have in the Space part of game play. I honestly like the current limits. Some weapons should not have large fire arcs. Also all Torp weapon boats should be very easy to kill from the port/starboard. Everything has a weakness.
I can see the tetryon proc to be lackluster with a few builds, but I'd think disruptors would be perfect for a torpedo boat, especially one using transphasics. It's a direct reduction in their defensive ability, which means your torps are going to be hitting them for ~10% bonus. With the rapid rate of fire for turrets, I'd think the disruptor proc would hit quite often.
In my opinion, science vessels make the best use of torps. You can't overload them, so they can fire at the fastest rates possible, and they use zero weapons firepower, meaning you can crank up the engines/shields/aux powers, makes the thing seem like an escort with tons of shields, and rediculously annoying science powers.
Finally, most players will tell you, Quantums will get you the most bang for your buck. This is very true, but keep in mind, it's just like any other weapon. Use all the same type, unless the cooldowns are limiting you, and you really want it to be all torps. If the ship has a console, make sure to use types like it, like on the armitage, I use nothing but dual photons front, and duals back, and nothing but. I know you said don't suggest the armitage, but when you see a trio of them doing a trop spread III/torp defense console in an STF on the maximum amount of targets, and your game crashes because of the sheer amount of missiles flying in the air, you realize just how much firepower those ships have too give.
DON'T use transfasics. They can work, but not nearly as well as other types. And be carefull with tricobalts, you can kill yourself with those as quickly as you can your enemy. And they are very easy to outrun.
Some people use an interesting tactic, which is missile stacking. If the enemy is outrunning your torps (or your mines), just wait a bit, then use a tractor beam. The trops can all slam into them at once, and cause massive volley damage. I normally speed up an escort, launch a large amount of torp spread missiles, and them bypass my enemy, using the aft torps to deal even more damage. Makes sure all torps hits at once. It's called missile stakcing, and it takes some practice, so get used to it a bit.
Last suggestion: torps don't do well on larger slower ships, as you may know. The targeting arc can and WILL get too be too much.
Besides that, go nuts. I'm using chronitons on my science character. My friends were laughing until they found out they couldn't hardly move worth beans. Gravity well III + Tractor Beam II + Chroniton torp spread II = one stuck BoP.
Edit: I forgot to mention damage vs. shields. If your RoF is getting fast, it really doesn't matter. Some torp boats I've seen deal around 16k DPS, sustained. Even with a 50% bleed through, your dealing more than enough to take shields out.
I AM THE SWORD OF THE RIGHTOUS!
Exactly.:cool:
Against PvE, that may be okay. But in PvP, that gives your opponent enough time to heal their shields or hull.
Oh they do.
I run a tac on a science vessel. I've loaded it up with 6x Plasma torpedo's. They fire at almost optimal Rate, and the target is always on fire.
Then For giggles I throw in fire on my mark.
The Plasma fire bypasses the shields, so its not a worry for me. Throw in some amusing Science powers (at the moment Gravity well III and Charged particle burst. Although I'm thinking of replacing that with Tachyon beam III) and you get a very good combo.
For Multiple enemies a Gravity well, followed by Torpedo spread and as I go through the clump I fire of the Theta radiation console, that tends to work rather nicely.
For single targets Tac officer ability powers + the plasma damage cause enough trouble.
I gotta try this out. On paper it sounds great, but I think that I would have to play with it some.
Thoughts?
There is really only one power setting, max defence :cool:
Minimum weapons power, just enough engine power for maximum defense rating, and the rest between shields and aux. It maintains ridiculous survivability always being at a full defense setting.
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=MinervaTac3_0
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=MinervaEng2_0
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=MinervaSci2_0
The Tac variant I use for solo PvPing or 1v1 (High Yield 3...yum:D)
The Eng vairant I use when I PvP with my fleet.
The Sci variant I use for Blockade and pet control.
3 rapid fire transphasic torps, 1 mine, 1 beam array for subsystem targetting, 1 rear torp launcher.
The transphasics net ~350k damage and ~1mill in an arena.
2 Purple Torp DOFFs
2 Shield Distribution Officers
1 Variable*
3 piece Borg with Maco shield.
2 RCS consoles, 1 Neutronium
2 Field Generators, 1 Borg, 1 Web
3 Transphasic consoles
*Tac and Eng variant is a conn officer or another shield distribution officer
Sci Variant is a gravimetric scientist
The only good torpedo boats are science ships because they have the turn rate and the BOFF abilities to make a torpedo boat viable.
In my opinion, theres no advantage to run a torpedo boat in PvE at all since NPCs dont redistribute shields and dont heal, hence dont need spike damage.
Oh she is. Because you don't need any power to weapons it allows you to run huge amounts in the other three categories. Throw in a Purple Doff and a carefully selected set equipment and Gravity well is amusing as hell.
That's one of the things I always had trouble with on Science ships. Either my beam weapons are next to useless. Or My Science powers are way below par. Ignoring beams gets you wayheyehey science powers.
I respectfully disagree. I've had a torpedo boat with types other than trannies, and although they work, just takes a while, they run into the same problem, your target's shields. I recently switched to trannies, after reading icepiraka's guide to torpedo boats, and I have to say that transphasics are much more effective. All shield systems, regardless of strength, have a 75% resistance to kinetic energy. This means that of all the damage a torpedo deals, three-quarters of that will be thrown away BEFORE any damage is applied to shield itself. The easiest way around this is to use torpedoes that deal damage to a ship's hull, plasma and transphasic. Now, all that being said, you can use any other type of torpedo reletively effectively, but you will have to work at it a little harder than with those types that deal damage straight to the hull. I've gotten good kills with my first torp boat, which loaded a variety of torp types. It comes down to your playing style, just don't count transphasics as mundane.
To the OP, torpedo boats are a bit like an instrument, they are finely tuned. There is a fair amount of theory and planning that goes into designing and flying a torp boat. For instance, do you have enough skill in projectiles, does the ship being used have a good turn radius, and do the mounted consoles/components enhance the survivability or attack capability of your ship. One of the most important things that you can do for a torpedo boat is equip three PWoff Doffs, purple if you can get them. Yes I know they're normally expensive, however, there is one for FREE in one of the Nimbus missons. I think his name is Law. Each of these Doffs give a 20% chance to reduce a torpedo's cooldown time by 5 seconds (for purple)! Also something to think about is that their cooldown time is very short. I don't have the number in front of me, but running three Rapid Fire Transphasic torpedos, which have a cooldown of 8 seconds, I can fire torpedoes as fast or almost as fast as the 1.5 second global cooldown for torps...indefinitely... Now you will have gaps in your firing rythm occasionally, but they're not very long.
I personally fly a Talvath-class Temporal Destroyer with a Breen Cluster torp and three Rapid Fire trannies in front and two tranny torps and a tranny mine launcher in back while running the Breen set. I've reduced a perfectly healthy Mogai to 3% hull (with full shields mind you) in one torpedo stack. It takes some practice.