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Break down the various viabilities of the torpedo types?
ericsonxx
Member Posts: 253 Arc User
Most everyone tells me to use Quantum or Photon, but what about Plasma, Chronition, etc, etc?
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Chroniton = utility torps (although ironically they're about as strong as photons over enough time), proc is extremely strong, bear in mind that a chroniton proc lowers an opponent's speed which lowers his defence score, meaning he takes a lot more damage from other sources
Transphasics = not really worth it outside of very exotic builds, even then their viability is arguable. Phasic mines are better
Tric = suicide runners.
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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Trics are... well, they're special. Let's just say you'll get the funniest numbers as well as victories (and deaths) out of them. It's actually possible to end up vaporizing yourself and not your opponent through a tric mega-crit.
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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
So if you're not worried about min/maxing, there are worse things to use.
I do 2,200 none crit damage to hull with shields up without BO skills or 3,200 against Borg. Hardly low damage. It is easy to do 10k+ hull in the first 10seconds of battle.
"They only do about twice the bleed that bog-standard quantums will, and once someone's shields down they're almost useless"
That is incorrect they now do a lot more then that twice the bleedthough. If I recall correctly transphasic do x4 more Bleedthough then quantums.
I think the biggest problem is in this game Quantums are just better overall than anything else and if you are running STFs a lot you're not going to find a better torpedo. In the 3 years I've played the game I can honestly count the times I've used Chronitons on one hand. Just never seem to get anything out of them. I use plasma as I'm leveling up as the heavy torp. does some nice damage, but end game they really aren't that special unless you are going for the Reman set, in which case you are sacrificing a lot of survivability vs. the MACO and Borg sets. Tricobalts do some epic damage, but the recharge is way too long and the heavy ones more often than not get shot down. They can be effective in STFs with the unshielded targets, but I just don't find them that reliable compared to photons/quantums.
Are you sure you're not using Borg weapons?
Can you post parser logs if you keep them? I'd be really interested to see these.
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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
My Transphasic Torpedo is 4669.1 damage which will hit for around 2000 damage on hull when shields are up. The Cluster Torpedo is 30,966 if everything hits that is around 15k on hull with shields up. I really like the Cluster as that?s 15k per target or 30k if shields are down and you can hit more than one target due to AoE. Those numbers are without BO skill buffs. Crits end up at around 5k hull when shields are up.
If you would like to meet in game I can shoot a few volleys at you.
When I toyed with my transphasic dervish torp boat, it hit ~4k raw dps when using copious amounts of disruptor turrets and AP:B. There's a thread in the Tribble area that discusses the torp changes, and while the conclusion was they are buffed enough to be effective, they aren't nearly as worthwhile as say a Quantum. Since shields can drop so quickly in PvE, you'll get more chances to hit higher crits with a quantum/photon. Though if anyone can point me to a 6k dps escort using a non-tac officer for a transphasic torp boat, I'd love to see the build.
How are you getting that much damage through shields? I'm lucky if I get 400-500 if the shields are up when I use my transphasics.
I use Transphasics MK XII DMGx3, x3 Transphasics tactical consoles at 30% damage, x2 Breen set for another 30% damage. x2 Tac teams cycling for another damage boost.
My favorite tactic is to load torp spread come out of full impulse, hit tac team and 2nd torpdeo spread, then unleash a deadly volley followed by a Cluster torpedo. If done right you can end up with over 40 torpedoes in the air within 10 seconds.
Sure, my handle is @Shimmerless
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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Personally I still think transphasic's suck. They do subpar damage to exposed hull, have a 10 second recharge, receive less of a damage bonus from BOFF abilities (unless something has changed sense season 6 launch) and "increased shield penetration" weapons/builds really put the "I in team" moderately boosting their own DPS at the expense of other weapons not getting to exposed hull quicker.
Also to add to the more on topic discussion.
Plasma Torpedoes: The Plasma HY:T is destroyable and plasma fire is extinguished by Hazard emitters. Most people have at least some resistance to plasma damage on their hull because of STF grinding. Torpedo's are more of a spike damage weapon and D.O.T abilities have to overcome what ever H.O.T. system's are in place, so the Plasma fire tends to be reduced by a good 20% or more and then is either put out by HE or out healed any way.
Tricobolts: Tricobolts have very low DPS, are always destroyable and CAN MISS. This means that for about 60 seconds at a time you have one dead weapon slot, when the torp is fired it could kill you for being too close to the target with low shields and hull or miss completely making a weapon slot on your ship do nothing for up to 120 seconds. An unmodified quantum will spit out 14 torps in that time, an unmodified photon can shoot 18, with unrealistically perfect DoFF's in place all other torpedoes have a theoretical upper limit of 80 torpedoes fired in 120 seconds, a tricobolt can shoot twice in that same time frame with the same perfect DoFF's.
What ever system is in place for determining what targets get hit by AOE's seems to have a real problem with destroyable torpedo's and will target them over nearly anything else.
Quantums: Reasonable RoF, ship smashing damage vs Bare Hull, easily hits 1 Torp per sec w/ 2 torps and 2 Blue-Purple Torp DOffs.
Transphasics: Low RoF (unless using Breen Rapid-Reload type, or 3 Projectile DOffs), okay damage through shields, low damage once shields are off, no decisive killing power, only remotely viable for high-hull pressure ships (which have been heavily nerfed due to Sci powers effective damage being very low).
Plasma Torpedos: Same RoF as Quatums, huge dps potential from stacking burn DoT's (which are benefited by bot Particle Generators AND Plasma Torpedo consoles), can have decent but difficult to connect spike damage with HYT (risk of sui is present, risk of intercept is present)
Chroniton Torpedos: Extremely powerful slow on proc, moderate damage against hull (close to Photons), Quantum torpedo RoF
Tricobal Torpedos: Always interceptable, ship-crushing damage on critical hits with high-yield, causes zones which disable people, always interceptable, high-risk of self-damage (which thanks to the built-in disable, means knocking your own Tactical Team off)
I just did a quick test and see no difference with Particle Generators.
Hull damage causes more aggro than shield damage which is why I use the transphasics and plasma weapons. I fly towards a cloud of enemies, spit out a torp spread, and then fly into the middle and use my AOE's. Then I change targets one by one and try to cause as many plasma fires as I can.
Once I have the whole cloud is pounding on me, I hit Feedback Pulse and start healing for dear life. I don't have the DPS of most other ships, but I can hold aggro long enough for other players to knock down most of the ships without taking heavy fire.
So this is why I use transphasics. I don't use them for the DPS, instead I use them to inflict more hull damage at the start of a fight than my team-mates so I draw aggro faster.
I have heard that in rare cases when you fight a boss or another player who has very strong shields that buffed transphasics will inflict a lot more hull damage over time than waiting for their shields to drop and then using a quantum. However you wouldn't benefit against trash enemies with low shield strength, which are like 98% of the enemies in the game.
It is working surprising well with me often coming top or near top in damage in PvP, right up there with Escorts. Now I am not top end Escort DPS but for a Cruiser I think my DPS is pretty good somewhere around top end cruiser to bottom to middle Escort. No problem with kills in fact the reason I use it is because I cannot seem to kill anything with energy weapons. I can easily do well over 10k hull damage in 10seconds with the targets shields on full which is great for picking out already damaged targets in PvP for surprise kills.
But saying all that, I do admit it is a pretty specialised build and not Elite DPS.
Which kind of setup do you use? All transphasics and one mine torp launcher?
I don't have access to fleet space weapons just yet (or other MK XII), would the rapid reload launchers work fairly well?
Since torps are limited by arc, do you use mines at all, or maybe RCS Accelerators to improve turnrate?
Also I apologize for not being able to do the whole crash test dummy thing, I've been getting ready to go on vacation so I'm a little schiz at the minute. I promise I'll try and find you in the next few days though.
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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
You actually using the cluster in combat, or are you simply recording damage on an idle target ?
I STILL find the cluster transphasic garbage- it's travel is rather slow compared to it's pre-season 6 incarnation, it gets shot down 50% of the time before it deploys it's minelets, and the minelets (once deployed) barely move at all to pursue it's target.
What was once my favorite weapon (pre-S6) is now only barely effective against stationary targets that don't shoot back.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I have, and it didn't.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG