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Put No Win Scenario Back To The Old Difficulty
the4monkeys
Member Posts: 172 Arc User
Dear Cryptic,
I feel this should be addressed, I am part fo the sad pandas that smashed the original tribble no win scenario. We helped in building a right level in building a hard AI for experienced players. Which resulted No win on holodeck in its hard form originally.
Then you just go and nerf this so people can now increase to level 9 easy. I have seen roleplayers and less quality fleets getting there!
This was a great tool for people to realise where they are agains the AI and groups of people. There is a reason it was and to be quite blunt it involved people to go out there and team up and make people think outside the box to try do this. we made fleets who asked for pvp advice to go up against the scenario as projects to get a good idea and allsorts.
The fact gozer put in the accolades at right points suggested the balance was near complete. nerfing torpedos heavily (I would off prefered about 10% drop in damage) only makes the role players in this game feel there actualy stronger than they are!
Which leads to next point about , these roleplayers/pve'ers are not learning the concepts behind surviving and damage and therefore when fancying pvp they die in two minute and heaven't learned the basics of TEAMPLAY.
whether the pve'ers or role players hate this post, I dont mind, I rather tell the truth and say I rather cryptic help you guys out, as we have done for pvp'ers.
I feel this should be addressed, I am part fo the sad pandas that smashed the original tribble no win scenario. We helped in building a right level in building a hard AI for experienced players. Which resulted No win on holodeck in its hard form originally.
Then you just go and nerf this so people can now increase to level 9 easy. I have seen roleplayers and less quality fleets getting there!
This was a great tool for people to realise where they are agains the AI and groups of people. There is a reason it was and to be quite blunt it involved people to go out there and team up and make people think outside the box to try do this. we made fleets who asked for pvp advice to go up against the scenario as projects to get a good idea and allsorts.
The fact gozer put in the accolades at right points suggested the balance was near complete. nerfing torpedos heavily (I would off prefered about 10% drop in damage) only makes the role players in this game feel there actualy stronger than they are!
Which leads to next point about , these roleplayers/pve'ers are not learning the concepts behind surviving and damage and therefore when fancying pvp they die in two minute and heaven't learned the basics of TEAMPLAY.
whether the pve'ers or role players hate this post, I dont mind, I rather tell the truth and say I rather cryptic help you guys out, as we have done for pvp'ers.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by the4monkeys on
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Comments
I understand, that it should be harder, for people to learn, but if it is too hard, then people will just leave it, and will not play it, unless they want to test a team (and not to have fun).
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
I agree with you that pvp is not no win! but problem is that the ai is so easy pvpers need challenge!
I would rather have no win as no winable! than to have something thats completed in 20 mins Just like pandas did as soon as it was on tribble. (which got on stoked too):)
If i was in cryptics shoes I would examine the results and examine where the skill base is on that scenario. Make tutorials for skills to be used for people! help them out. Its not a dig against pve and roleplayers, certainly not intended! I want to generally improve average skill base in game!
live with it
Simply put, this game is obviously not aimed at you...and probably not me either.
You can't play a game that is made to appeal to rpers and pve minded players and then complain that it doesn't suit your hardcore playstyle.
It would be nice if the devs were intersted in pvp, but that isn't where they think the money is so all you get is more ships to play the same pve content over and over again.
If this game is like any other mmo ever, i would bet that the pvpers can generate more dps/healing than pve clowns any day of the week.
well, I would not mind if it was harder, since I dont care about it. but you are a niche in the game (as in elite pvp player). if people saw this was impossible to beat it, they would not try. and most of the people are PVE players, so if you do not make the game (a PVE game I might add) beatable for PVE players (good ones), then why bother making it at all?
the way I see it, if they increased this anymore they would just drive away people from it, and not make players smarter in their playstyles, and more aware of their ships
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
which in "no win" is wrong
isn't it
And actually the average PVE speced cruiser can put out more healing than most PVP ships simply because it is a cruiser not an escort
What's your point? I wrote "healing/dps" to refer to healing or dps.
The pvper set up to heal will heal more the thier pve counterpart and the pvper set up for dps will do more damage as well.
Pvpers setup for maximum effect, no way MOST pve guys are rolling like that..no way.
It doesnt matter about pve pvp or roleplayers. what im saying here is people need to build a stronger comunity.
I can go into STF on elite pugging in queues and people cant break 100k barrier on damage and you think why........... Its because there not informed how to do damage.
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
a good start might be to include ships that can SEE cloaked defiants (or who scan for them)
ships with Good pattern mine laying powers
and above all knock out the voice comms
I dare you to test that theory against me! I have helped pve fleets like sector 31 and numerous fleets 500+ members too and run tat fleet defence so 20 people can give it ago in private and there top end pve healer thought he did crazy heal numbers. I tested this and got 5x more healing and its not hax or exploits!
I suggest you stop trolling, then suggest you go read hilberts guide he has a very good cruiser guide! he talks about resists and what skills to use explaining differences. hilberst guid is on forums under pvp.
My fleet role plays (judge judy) etc. Do stf's to grind gear and fleet events for fleetmarks. but we are based on. im judging all not against pve or roleplayers. Sad Pandas made a trainign fleet for helping pvpers understand there skills and help them create better team work, were a caring bunch thats all.
Order In The Court!!!
I completely agree with this thread i have personally spoke with gozar on our ventrillo server as well as our fleet and helped him to develope the scenario.
As a pvper and influential member of the Sad Panda Group i was in total agreance with the scenario Gozar had developed and just need to work out 1 or 2 things to make it perfect. I also pushed for unskilled players to do the No Win Scenario with 4 other friends and build a cohessive unit that works together and learns eachothers habbits so they can take that which they learned and compete in pvp.
However cryptic you nerfed the scenario so much that it no longer gives players a challange to grow and understand the dynamics of the game. To grow as unit and compete at high levels of the game.......
So i ask why cryptic? Why did you nerf it? It makes no sense when it was being promoted to improve players as a whole......
This link is a perfect example of the difficulty level of the game as it stands this is not the No Win Scenario but it is an example of why Sad Pandas as a whole was pushing for Gozars Original No Win Scenario Idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TCF1Yb-4pk
Enjoy the video and examine exactly every little detail please
well pandas
you guys are NOT entitled to judge people
if YOU can beat this mission it needs fixing because frankly you aren't that good
I can get to wave 6 on this (no further so far)
without ANY pvp trickery
and in a Bog standard starfleet issue ship
so Im guessing you need it adjusted so you can as well
if you are getting further you must be using some sort of NON standard issue kit
(or its Glitched)
lets see you do it with a fresh out of spacedock ship some time
But now they totally screwed it up? Whatever.
Its no longer a 'no win scenario' now.
But the real reason i dont really care anymore, even if i had the greatest fun in trying to perfect our NWS runs, 99% of the players in this game ARE PVE'ers. Roleplayers, PVE'ers, thus, and lets pull facts together, are the types that dont know how the mechanics in this game work, neither do they aim for perfecting their own builds, let alone they know how to teamplay.
(If you dont know which people im talking about, just queue up for an STF and you'll find them)
I accepted that only 0.000002% of this community pvp's, and this no win scenario is hardly doable for the average playergroup that can make it to wave 3, 4, perhaps if they really try to wave 5.
This MMO must have the dumbest playerbase I've seen in my MMO life tbh. No offense intended, but lets just put our facts together. Its a shame really, knowing that you would think that most trekkies are reasonably -to pretty intelligent, and yet 99.9% of the players do not want to know anything, ANYTHING, about the stuff in this game that could be seen as a challenge, which includes PvP, and it does also include the no win scenario. Yes it does make u train in a team, yes it will let you show which abilities do work in what scenario. In order to even get to Wave 9 you need a very decent group...
kkthxchnkbye
1. Why do you need healing in PvE? Its a dps race
2. If enlighten us as to what a PvE cruiser build is and why it is better than a pvp setup
you want to make it tougher run a CANON ship not a CANNON ship
PVE team missions healing is worth more than damage (especially in blockade and starbase defence)
there is no "right spec" for a ship thinking there is means you are limiting yourself
Last one I was in comprised me, Naz, Jam0, Husanak & Dragon. That isn't a list of RP'ers. The only fleets that, to my knowledge, have gotten to wave 9 would be 12th Fleet/Pandas, and most of the players involved are in fact seasoned pvp'ers; you don't know most of them, but you have played with Ikrit & myself a few times.
I will personally attest that waves 8,9 & 10, having seen them all, are just as hard as the Tribble incarnation ever was, and that the strategies have simply gotten better. Poke me on vent sometime if you want the details.
lol so true. A 5 perfect escort team with the highest damage output (Which is equivalent to what you need in PvP) can set the record of all STF's with the optional timer for years to come.
It is purely a damage grindfest indeed.
omg eyes roll!!!
First off we dont judge people we look at facts!
We cant beat no win on old system but can get to level 9. and thats not PVP trickery. As I pointed out its about resists and things that a hibert guide can help. You can do this in the normal ships too! I used a tier 3 one thats works well too!
In terms of kits 3 piece borg and 1 piece maco. pretty much pve i think?
It has nothing to do with trying to make it a winnable scenario it has everything to do with Gozars original philosphy to the Scenario.
Which is to make the players think of new and inovative abilities and skills to beat the Scenario thus giving them a better quality gaming experiance and fostering growth in the player as a whole.
Yes we used this scenario to help grow pvp, why not? it was a great tool to foster training and growth so that the pvp community can grow as a whole and people wont feel ***** when they go into the pvp qyes...
Point is if you dont like it then stay out the pvp ques if you dont want a scenario to help you grow as a player than stay in the normal game play and stay closed minded to a better gaming experiance....
and not Bog standard
you want to make it harder for yourself run standard issue
just try it
Bet you find it a LOT more challenging
PErhaps i should pvp in a shuttlep, nice and challenging whoohoo!
Duh, we should just play the whole game in shuttle! Thanks Sollvax, you saved STO!
Oh and yes i have ran a full turret excel sci boat and pwned with it.......