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The unofficial "you are ignoring our requests" thread.
kirksplat
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Sorry to have to make this thread, but it seems official. Whatever updates are being made to the Foundry are ignoring our obvious requests, just as assets to the foundry are ignoring our obvious asset requests.
Example: We've been asking for ages for some kind of costume to give to dialogues, like a simple generic Federation logo when interacting with a computer. Now, we are given default "Talk to X" when attempting to disguise it. Want to scan the ship. Now, you need to "Talk to Ship."
That is really all we've been asking for, to interact with a console and have something console like appear as the dialogue. This update makes that even more difficult. What gives?
I'm really starting to feel like all of our feedback takes a backseat to:
A. Whatever some mysterious foundry team develops that might one day be compatible with STO.
and:
B. The personal whims of someone who does not listen to our requests.
I don't mean to sound negative, but I'm not sure that anyone is listening here. For X sake, give us the ability to use a generic costume for a dialogue with a computer console. That is all we've been asking for, not some crazy talk to object stuff. Just give us a costume with a federation logo. That is all that we need.
Just a way to talk to a console and have it be a console, not some BO or npc. Why is that so hard to understand.
Ex: I want to use my tricorder. I don't need my BO to translate it for me.
I want to interact with a computer and have it talk to me as a computer.
Why is this so hard, if all that I need is a generic costume to attach to dialogues?
Example: We've been asking for ages for some kind of costume to give to dialogues, like a simple generic Federation logo when interacting with a computer. Now, we are given default "Talk to X" when attempting to disguise it. Want to scan the ship. Now, you need to "Talk to Ship."
That is really all we've been asking for, to interact with a console and have something console like appear as the dialogue. This update makes that even more difficult. What gives?
I'm really starting to feel like all of our feedback takes a backseat to:
A. Whatever some mysterious foundry team develops that might one day be compatible with STO.
and:
B. The personal whims of someone who does not listen to our requests.
I don't mean to sound negative, but I'm not sure that anyone is listening here. For X sake, give us the ability to use a generic costume for a dialogue with a computer console. That is all we've been asking for, not some crazy talk to object stuff. Just give us a costume with a federation logo. That is all that we need.
Just a way to talk to a console and have it be a console, not some BO or npc. Why is that so hard to understand.
Ex: I want to use my tricorder. I don't need my BO to translate it for me.
I want to interact with a computer and have it talk to me as a computer.
Why is this so hard, if all that I need is a generic costume to attach to dialogues?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by kirksplat on
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Having a nice costume or using that in an objective would be nice though.
Foundry Mission Database
Check out my Foundry missions:
Standalone - The Great Escape - The Galaxy's Fair - Purity I: Of Denial - Return to Oblivion
Untitled Series - Duritanium Man - The Improbable Bulk - Commander Rihan
The answer, I would guess, is that dev time is not being put into making these available for us. Didn't Zero say in the interview on Primetime UGC that it takes something like 4 hours of dev time per map? I would assume it takes some dev time to hook up assets as well. For whatever reason, it seems that devs are not being tasked to do these things. I would hope that maybe Zero will let us in on the reason.
I don't want to be negative either, so I am offering a constructive solution. If, perhaps, the reason dev time is not being spent here is that the Foundry doesn't directly bring in any cash, maybe it is time to start monetizing some parts of the Foundry. I have been resistant to this, but I think there are some unobtrusive ways Cryptic can start making a little cash off the Foundry.
A) Costumes. We LOVE costumes, so make it so that when you purchase a c-store or lobi-crystal costume, it becomes available for you to use in the Foundry. Yes, this would require devs to spend time hooking up costumes in the Foundry, but Cryptic would be making some return off that time investment. I would also hope these would be retroactive for those of us who have made the purchases already.
This should also include ship costumes and the new EVA Suits. I can tell you that I would buy those suits right freakin' now if it meant I could have NPCs wear them in the Foundry.
C) Put together some map packs from the unused maps and offer them for fairly cheap. Offer a Romulan-themed map pack with more maps from the Featured Episodes, or a Klingon-themed pack with the new First City and the Alpha space map. I'd buy those.
D) Offer a Tholian Pack. Buy the pack, and you can use the ships, ground mobs and the Nukara maps.
The key, in my opinion, is to make sure not to make things more restrictive for people who already use the Foundry, just add new things for those who are willing to put down a little cash. If the money is coming in, you can afford to spend the time improving the Foundry, right?
We know Cryptic has to go through CBS for a lot of stuff, which is why some ships are not in the game or are only available through lock boxes. Could be possible that Cryptic is restricted from giving us access to certain assets due to either their licence with CBS or someone else.
Sounds strange yes, but when you consider what's in the foundry and what's not is there any other logical reason? Would really like a dev to respond to how things are actually added to Foundry.
Note: To Moderator, I am simply answering this question. This is not a guide or meant to be a guide to hack STO. It is simple truth of how MMOs work. Thank you for taking the time to read.
I am not a dev for STO obviously, but I am a programmer and understand how this works. Or should I say how it is supposed to work. Back when I was 16, I made a massive mod using the game GTA SA, I now work for a large software company. At this point I must say that GTA is not an MMO so it wasn't patched on a weekly basis or played online so players were able to edited it using a simple script and nothing else. This action was frowned upon by the owners of the game but never enforced. Hacking any MMO will get you banned.
All MMOs work the the same way, you have all the assets inside the hogg files. These are huge files on your HD if you look. When a new ship or character comes out the devs add this to the hogg files in the next patch. Your client only accesses what is needed while you play the game. The server returns the object number of an asset and its location in the game. This code is either raw or encoded text.
The Foundry is a great GUI for making a script which fed back to the server and stored for use by other players. When some one accesses your community mission they get the script that tells your client to display the assets you were allowed to add through the Foundry GUI. Without the GUI you would need to know the asset object number and map coordinates. No such GUI editor existed for GTA so it was similar to programming in machine code known as ASM.
So I imagine adding any asset to Foundry is simply granting us access to the asset.
Legally I cannot speak for CBS or Cryptic or PWE, but in the past many celebrities have sued or tried to sue game and software companies for their image being used in a game. I posted the links before. I don't believe this to be a CBS restriction at all, how can you sue about an asset that is already in use in the game? As far as I know, the only restriction is actor likeness and not ship likeness.
Understanding this you can now see why Kirksplat is a tad bit upset. I thank Cryptic for the ability to use and enjoy playing STO. I thank them for the Foundry GUI because it saves the headache of learning a new scripting language. But it defines mixed emotions when it comes to giving us a crippled editor.
Even if they're in the game we still have restrictions, like the before mentioned Lock Box ships that can be in the game but CANNOT be straight sold.
If we dismiss legal reasons, then only thing left is technical (I'm ignoring the theory that Cryptic doesn't want us to make better missions then them).
Considering they're just announcing patrols for Foundry mission NPCs now, is it possible the older assets we dont have just wont WORK in the Foundry, and its not just a case of linking the HOGG files to it?
It really comes down to a few things. There was a huge vacuum of talent when the original Foundry team moved to NWN. Then the conversion to F2P went in overdrive. Now that we have people on the Foundry (on the STO team) again, they are prioritizing other types of improvements.
And, in my opinion, the "less is more" attitude of our producer is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, she is right that giving us too much might hinder creativity. But, when the requests are very basic, like a transporter, a ceiling, and walls, it's hard to understand.
We have been asking for obvious assets that should have been included from day 1, for current player costumes, a proper way to interact with objects, etc. All very basic stuff and we have been either ignored or met with petulant eye-rolling.
This is deeply frustrating--especially since there is so much effort putting non-sense and cash sinks into the game while ignoring actual content improvements. The foundry could be the great asset that helps mitigate this issue (PWE wants its lock boxes instead of missions) but they won't even meet us a quarter of the way...
No, as I said this is a library of 3D models, animations, and their textures already installed on your hard drive. Nothing you see in the game comes directly from the server except the patches.
If a developer of the Foundry wanted to give us access to a teleporter pad as requested they could or would look the model ID number up in the server database. Add that number and possible description to the next Foundry patch. Adding numbers on a list is not hard at all.
As for license Atari gave it up, and as far as I know, CBS owns the rights to Star Trek, PWE owns Cryptic Studios, and Cryptic Studios has been given the rights to use Star Trek logos and such, as long as they don't step on any toes. The gaming industry attracts a lot of lawsuits because of the millions of dollars they generate in revenues. This has nothing to do with anything legal or otherwise.
My best guess is someone high up is throttling the Foundry so we can't possibly make better missions. This might sound paranoid, but Foundry missions don't generate revenue for the game makers. If players stop playing the game missions, they might not purchase items at the item malls. Who needs a bigger better ship if the missions don't require it?
On a personal note, I stopped playing when both my Fed and KDF hit 50. I seldom actually "play" the game. But as I said earlier, I love modding games and this is the only MMO online I know of that allows this activity.
Foundry Mission Database
Check out my Foundry missions:
Standalone - The Great Escape - The Galaxy's Fair - Purity I: Of Denial - Return to Oblivion
Untitled Series - Duritanium Man - The Improbable Bulk - Commander Rihan
If this is the case, then the whole thing is a truly sad, sad affair of just sending us foundry authors to our sub-forum corner, and ignoring us for an entire year.
I just don't have the words to express how sad that is. Hours and hours and hours of building my own transporter pad... and it still doesn't look that great.
A map, sure. An asset, I just don't know. There are benches labeled as buildings. How long, really, does something like that take to fix?
Here is an excerpt of the code for 2 firewalls, notice the highlighted BOLD ID Numbers?
This is what is needed to place any additional content to the Foundry. All they need to do is add the numbers to the access. This is what I have been ranting about for weeks. Why do people get paid for not doing their job well?
Foundry Mission Database
Check out my Foundry missions:
Standalone - The Great Escape - The Galaxy's Fair - Purity I: Of Denial - Return to Oblivion
Untitled Series - Duritanium Man - The Improbable Bulk - Commander Rihan
For instance, I personally would like to see all Uniforms, Costumes, and all Ships making their way into the Foundry. And more Neutral costumes being made so we can make Civilians or Alien cultures have different looks to them.
With the Editor, more improvements like bringing back the old Text Window size. Maybe somekind of interaction device to help with somekind of simplified problem solving, perhaps something like a keypad or access to minigames for scaning or "computer hacking" (like opening doors).
Another is adding A Chat Window (we can only see messages when we are in testing mode).
Ahhh be nice if they talk to us. Maybe bounce ideas and make things better.
Despite this, however, they just don't seem to give a rat's TRIBBLE about the foundry.
I guess Cryptic is waiting for the sh*t to hit that particular fan when NWO comes out and the first question from a would-be DM/Author would be: "How can I and my friends create a NWO module together?"
Or... who knows, perhaps Cryptic are geniuses and have already added a Subversion-like system to the NWO Foundry and we simply need to wait for it to percolate to their other games.
The poster formerly known as LordOfPit, and his blog.
* Dec 2007 (CO)
* Oct 2008 (STO)
I am still waiting for the fix on the extreme lag of the editor.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
I don't even understand the strategy behind the Foundry, it seems to be entirely backwards. Why is it being developed for NWN, an unfinished and unreleased game? They have the perfect testbed in STO. The Foundry should be developed here and then ported over to NWN, not the other way around.
I've long since learned to just make do with what I get. I don't even expect more than that anymore. Unfortunately, many Foundry updates end up breaking it, since there is no real world group of authors testing the NWN version. It gets ported to STO and then we find out it doesn't work, which is why I say the development strategy is backwards.
Right now it is laggy as hell for some of us. I enjoy working with the Foundry, but I'm not sure I'm willing to fight with lag again. I already did that once before and it really sucked. So I'll settle for simply having a functional editor again.
Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
That is IF Neverwinter does ever come out. The pushed back the release to sometime in 2013. One video they said they allowed people to play on a "pre Alpha" I never heard of that so I asked the hubby. He shrugged and said it was made up. Alpha, beta then release duh?
I originally got involved here to learn about the Foundry because I love D&D but it looks like (from the videos) just another heavy handed PvP game and that is NOT what D&D is about. Story is everything, the fighting when you are playing table top D&D takes a back seat to a great plot and mystery. So I agree, they really need to fix the issues with the Foundry before they end up dropping their pants and embarrassing themselves with Neverwinter.
I would like to see the Foundry working at 101% here before they run off to work on Neverwinter and abandon STO.
If anything, the Neverwinter one is wearing the pants we want to, because that's the one they've been using our feedback for. Now that the Neverwinter build and the STO build's mechanics match though, we may get some of those features and actually benefit from our own testing in a more significant amount than simple bug fixes.
If you could dump the code, edit it, and then reimport it, it might conceivably be possible to plug in an object code that's not intended for use in the Foundry. Maybe that's one reason why. An official importer would have to be built smart enough to scrub the code for illegal edits.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I don't think his importer worked like that, but that is not what we are discussing. We want Cryptic to open up the library so we can get designationxr377 a new pair of pants !! Why can't he have a decent pair of pants?!
To end this on a positive note. The 200 shares of PWRD I purchased back in late January went up and close at 11.17 today. I am still kicking myself for not selling out back in March, but I suppose I can wait and see. At least my head is above water again... for now.
Solomun Grundy want pants too!
Oh well, we make do. Didn't want to rock the boat before with our opinions did we? Now...
I'll just sit back and watch the frustration from here, popcorn is warm, the lights are dim.
Sarcasm aside, I'm not sure what to say. We have foundry, Perfect World owns the show now, and sorry I think their more interested in their lockboxes, lobi Crystals and crappy C-sstore fluff to care about anything as unprofitable as the foundry.
This.
The stupid thing is if they had half a braincell they would realise players could be reducing their costs by creating nearly all the content... if they only improved the tools and UI. That would leave them more time to focus on their precious lockboxes...
I keep asking myself, what kind of moron invests $2000+ in Perfect World stock? Then I look at my brother and say, oh yeah....
@designationxr377: Well if they do plan to use this as the editor for other games then they should get it working here. My opinion they need to use the preview as the object editor.
To explain; imagine you place a crate or console on the map. Now you enter 3D preview and use your character to move and adjust the object. This would be a lot easier than most people would think to program. I am a programmer by trade and have hammered out things such as this over a long weekend by myself.
From my experience, either the Cryptic team is either very small in numbers or not working on the Foundry at all. I personally have been at a point where I have too many projects on the desktop and not enough focus on what is the most important. I have found this makes all your projects suffer. Cryptic management can't be so weak or lack so much direction?
But that is how it "feels" I have no way to know this for sure.