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Was'nt Data destroyed?

masterkampmasterkamp Member Posts: 89 Arc User
edited August 2012 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
As i recall. Was'nt Data destroyed in Nemesis? How could it come that in the louding screens is standing. Data became Captain of the U.S.S. Enterprise-E. If he is dead. There was a other android B4. Butt he is not Data.


Sorry for my english.
Post edited by masterkamp on
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    c4ptain0bviou5c4ptain0bviou5 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Data#Return
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    meurikmeurik Member Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    In the end of Nemesis, while Picard is talking to B-4, B-4 begins to sing the "Blue Skies" song that Data sung earlier in the movie. Hinting that Data's memory engrams that were duplicated onto B-4's positronic brain (earlier in the movie), was atleast partially successful. Reading the Path to 2409, the Soong Foundation eventually managed to "unlock" the remaining engrams, essentially replacing B-4 entirely with the knowledge and memories of Data. In essence, a rebirth of Data.

    Clear enough?
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    captpeacemakercaptpeacemaker Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    someone has not studied their history... read the Path to 2409.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Thowchum
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    asthalothasthaloth Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    So yes, Data's "emotional" death at the end of Nemesis was not only completely pointless, but they knowingly and willingly consumed another sapient life form to resurrect him. ;)
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    daalagtcdaalagtc Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    asthaloth wrote: »
    So yes, Data's "emotional" death at the end of Nemesis was not only completely pointless, but they knowingly and willingly consumed another sapient life form to resurrect him. ;)

    It's the Starfleet way
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    thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    asthaloth wrote: »
    So yes, Data's "emotional" death at the end of Nemesis was not only completely pointless, but they knowingly and willingly consumed another sapient life form to resurrect him. ;)
    It was a pointless death, anyway. I mean, come on! Picard, so flustered by the death of his evil clone, can do nothing but stand in shock while Data has to die to save him? Really? Picard?

    Anyone remember when Riker and Pulaski vaporized their growing clones in Up The Long Ladder? :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
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    praghaspraghas Member Posts: 239 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    asthaloth wrote: »
    So yes, Data's "emotional" death at the end of Nemesis was not only completely pointless, but they knowingly and willingly consumed another sapient life form to resurrect him. ;)

    It does seem immoral to do such a thing.
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    thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    B4 was saved to disk and is probably in one of the new android bodies - he might even be Captain Data's "pet" in this timeline :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
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    asthalothasthaloth Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    B4 was saved to disk and is probably in one of the new android bodies - he might even be Captain Data's "pet" in this timeline :)

    Which is basically tantamount to harvesting someone's organs, putting them on life support and promising them they can have them back at some point :p
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    thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    asthaloth wrote: »
    Which is basically tantamount to harvesting someone's organs, putting them on life support and promising them they can have them back at some point :p
    It worked for Moriarty. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
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    c4ptain0bviou5c4ptain0bviou5 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    You people have no idea what you are talking about. The story that was actually written was that B4 willingly let Data use his body:
    When the restored Data first gained consciousness, he objected to the fact that his restoration was at B-4's expense, and immediately attempted to destroy his own consciousness to preserve B-4. However, B-4 sacrificed himself to prevent Data from dying.

    http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Data#Return

    So if you want to compare it to some kind of surgery it would be like someone willingly donating a vital organ to someone else, at the expense of their own life.
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    zordar01zordar01 Member Posts: 318
    edited August 2012
    Memory Beta wrote:
    A few months later, he [B-4] was relocated to the Daystrom Institute, where scientists planned to disassemble him in an attempt to replicate a Soong-type android. This was opposed by Captain Bruce Maddox, who made a legal petition to the Federation Judiciary Committee, the highest court in the Federation. After testimony from the Doctor, he was declared a sentient being and therefore could not be disassembled.

    And the very next sentence?
    Memory Beta wrote:
    The Soong Foundation's science team and Geordi La Forge worked to subvert his personality in favor of the "Data" personality.

    So after B-4 is declared sentient Geordi and friends actively set about to subvert B-4's sentience in favor of Data's. That's tantamount to premeditated murder. And no where does it say that B-4 became intellectually more than a learning-disabled child, so his willing self-sacrifice is dubious at best.

    Yeah, this whole substory is one giant WTF.
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    thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    zordar01 wrote: »
    And the very next sentence?



    So after B-4 is declared sentient Geordi and friends actively set about to subvert B-4's sentience in favor of Data's. That's tantamount to premeditated murder. And no where does it say that B-4 became intellectually more than a learning-disabled child, so his willing self-sacrifice is dubious at best.

    Yeah, this whole substory is one giant WTF.
    The Trek writers weren't exactly overly consistent or logical over the years. Heck, Data was in Starfleet for 20 years before he was even considered sentient. Apparently Starfleet lets non-sentients become officers. There's probably a whole ship somewhere in Starfleet full of nothing but Dog and Cat officers. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
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    scififan78scififan78 Member Posts: 1,383 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    There's probably a whole ship somewhere in Starfleet full of nothing but Dog and Cat officers. :)

    My Caitian takes offense to this statement. He would never work with dogs! :P

    Personally, a canine based race, IMHO, would have been a better option for the KDF than the Caitian Clones (AKA: Ferasans).
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    jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,784 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    It was a pointless death, anyway. I mean, come on! Picard, so flustered by the death of his evil clone, can do nothing but stand in shock while Data has to die to save him? Really? Picard?



    And what Picard SHOULD have done was use the time manipulation ability that he picked up in Insurrection to slow time to a crawl. He could have casually walked over and disabled the Scimitar's thoron radiation cannon and no one would have died.
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    dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    jslyn wrote: »
    And what Picard SHOULD have done was use the time manipulation ability that he picked up in Insurrection to slow time to a crawl. He could have casually walked over and disabled the Scimitar's thoron radiation cannon and no one would have died.

    Thalaron. :P
    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
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    nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    scififan78 wrote: »
    Personally, a canine based race, IMHO, would have been a better option for the KDF than the Caitian Clones (AKA: Ferasans).

    like the Anticans?
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    martydartymartydarty Member Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    dalolorn wrote: »
    Thalaron. :P

    I like this thats good statment i think they must have forgot bot his ablities
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    dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    martydarty wrote: »
    I like this thats good statment i think they must have forgot bot his ablities

    You sure you didn't quote the wrong post? I only corrected his statement about the Scimitar having a thoron-based weapon.
    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
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    thedoctorblueboxthedoctorbluebox Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    jslyn wrote: »
    And what Picard SHOULD have done was use the time manipulation ability that he picked up in Insurrection to slow time to a crawl. He could have casually walked over and disabled the Scimitar's thoron radiation cannon and no one would have died.

    Wow, I had never thought of that, that would have been an excellent way to do it! It would be a call back to a previous movie, be something that Picard has picked up and carried with him as something special he learned from those people, and would be a very special moment for him as it would remind him of her, it could have been done in a very memorable way! I like this idea, so much better than Data dying. Good idea sir.
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    scififan78scififan78 Member Posts: 1,383 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    jslyn wrote: »
    And what Picard SHOULD have done was use the time manipulation ability that he picked up in Insurrection to slow time to a crawl. He could have casually walked over and disabled the Scimitar's thoron radiation cannon and no one would have died.

    Umm. Didn't Picard learn how to slow down time only for himself? I mean, unless I am remembering wrong, time slowed for him and his girlfriend to allow thier friends to find them. Everyone else was still going normal speed. Am I wrong? :confused:
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    darthstormstrikedarthstormstrike Member Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    c4ptain0bviou5 wrote: »
    http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Data#Return

    Reason it's on memory beta and not memory alpha is because it's not canon.
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    trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    zordar01 wrote: »
    And the very next sentence?



    So after B-4 is declared sentient Geordi and friends actively set about to subvert B-4's sentience in favor of Data's. That's tantamount to premeditated murder. And no where does it say that B-4 became intellectually more than a learning-disabled child, so his willing self-sacrifice is dubious at best.

    Yeah, this whole substory is one giant WTF.
    Considering that B-4 did not wish to improve himself, but Data did... despite claim of sentience, that made him no better than a robot. In other words, a tough decision Geordi and the others had to make:

    Keep B-4, who would essentially remain the same... or get Data back, who would improve himself?

    Plus, if I remember correctly, they've made a lot of moral decisions on the show. Not all of them have been noble.
    Was named Trek17.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
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    c4ptain0bviou5c4ptain0bviou5 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    darthstormstrike wrote: »
    Reason it's on memory beta and not memory alpha is because it's not canon.

    Neither is this game, and the OP is asking about the loading screens in THIS GAME. Catch up.
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    trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    darthstormstrike wrote: »
    Reason it's on memory beta and not memory alpha is because it's not canon.
    Just because it's not canon doesn't mean it can't be considered on it's own merits ;)
    Was named Trek17.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
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    kimmerakimmera Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    scififan78 wrote: »
    Umm. Didn't Picard learn how to slow down time only for himself? I mean, unless I am remembering wrong, time slowed for him and his girlfriend to allow thier friends to find them. Everyone else was still going normal speed. Am I wrong? :confused:

    Moreover, that only worked because they were on a planet with special properties. The whole main plot was around less than scrupulous people trying to mine said properties.

    There is no reason to believe anyone gained any permanent abilities.
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    nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    darthstormstrike wrote: »
    Reason it's on memory beta and not memory alpha is because it's not canon.

    And anything canon in faction is subject to interpretation and retcons. Canon is what you make of it.
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    darthstormstrikedarthstormstrike Member Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    c4ptain0bviou5 wrote: »
    Neither is this game, and the OP is asking about the loading screens in THIS GAME. Catch up.

    Then where is Kirk? There are a series of books on his return and not just a tidbit in one single book.

    Kirk lives in STO then. Everyone can live again in STO.
    ___________________

    "There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
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    darthstormstrikedarthstormstrike Member Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    nrobbiec wrote: »
    And anything canon in faction is subject to interpretation and retcons. Canon is what you make of it.

    Reason for Memory Beta's existence is for non-canon. The site itself admits to it not being canon items put there.
    ___________________

    "There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
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    c4ptain0bviou5c4ptain0bviou5 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    darthstormstrike wrote: »
    Then where is Kirk? There are a series of books on his return and not just a tidbit in one single book.

    Kirk lives in STO then. Everyone can live again in STO.

    Wow, you are seriously confused. Because STO is not canon, they get to pick and choose(key words) which stories from the books they want to use. They are in no way obligated to use every story from every book(and probably wouldnt even be allowed to do so by CBS if they tried).
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